If you have a uterus, raise your hand...

[cynatnite]

Let there be a nationwide referendum on abortion. Qualifications: be a woman and of legal age to vote.

If the fundies are so righteous and so sure of their cause, then let those who are able to have sex, get pregnant, carry for nine months, endure possible health risks for woman and fetus, labor and deliver, raise for the next 18 years, be the ones to decide on whether abortion should be legal in the US.

Well, fundies, right wingers, evangelicals, repubs???

Keep in mind, folks. It's white, male, christian nutjobs that make the rules in this country. Anyone else is second class citizens.

[wtmusic]

1. Yeah women just do it all, don't they?

This is disgusting. Maybe where you're from men don't help raise kids, but where I'm from this sounds like a lot of hyper-feminist bullshit.

[WildEyedLiberal]

3. Saying that abortion is a woman's decision is "hyper-feminist bullshit"?

You think that the husband or partner should be asked for his input before a woman is allowed to get an abortion?

[Katherine Brengle]

16. I consider myself a feminist and would most definitely talk with my husban

d before making a decision like this. If the relationship is not serious, I think this is unnecessary, but I do think that serious partners and husbands deserve to at least be asked what they think. My husband was by my side when I was pregnant with our daughter, he was in the delivery room the entire time I was in labor and when our daughter was born--he cut her umbilical cord, and held her before I even got a chance to (aside from when the doctor laid her on me as soon as she made her grand entrance). He went out in the middle of the night to fulfill all of my obsessive food needs, he held me when I cried for no reason because my hormones were raging, he put his hand on my stomach to feel her kicks and squirms. He got up in the middle of the night for feedings and diaper changes. It is ridiculously unfair to say that committed partners should have absolutely no say in the decision to become parents.

(However, I do agree with the OP--this should be a decision made on the legal level by women--we are most effected by it. If there need to be laws regarding my uterus and what I may do with it, I think they should be decided by people who have gone through or can go through what I and other women have gone and can go through.)

[cynatnite]

17. Most level headed women would discuss this...

with their significant other. My hubby's been there through it all with all three children.

Before I met him I had an abortion. I told the guy I was getting one.

And you nailed it. Women are the most affected by this. It's our bodies. We're the ones that make the choices to have or not to have a baby. We're the ones that cry, rejoice, suffer, doubt and run the whole gambit of emotions when attempting to make such a life altering decision.

The RWer's are too scared to let women choose whether it's by a vote or in the privacy of our own thoughts. They already know the answer.

[Katherine Brengle]

20. exactly, on all points. n/t

[WildEyedLiberal]

43. Your husband sounds like a great guy

In that situation, I would most definitely discuss with him all the options if for some reason I felt like an abortion would be the best choice. However, not everyone's husband is as great as yours - what about women with abusive or negligent partners?

Women who feel comfortable talking with their husbands about this decision should obviously do so, but women who are not - because their husbands are abusive or indifferent or whatever - should be able to make the choice that is best for them and their bodies without the fear of being vetoed by the father.

[Minnesota Libra]

34. Turn that around, what if.......

.....the woman wants a baby and the man doesn't? All he has to do is say NO and refuse to get her pregnant, so why aren't the rules the same for women?? Why are women not allowed to say they don't want a child when they've been subjected to rape or incest?

Even though I'm female, I for one, don't believe in abortion on demand but it needs to be an option for certain cases.

[cynatnite]

6. men can't get pregnant, men don't carry baby for nine months...

men don't go into labor or have c-sections, men don't deliver babies.

Women for the most part do majority of the raising over an 18 year period. Even my hubby is smart enough to know that.

Where is the hyper-feminist bullshit? The fact of the matter is these are women's bodies and rights they are talking about here. They don't give a damn.

[wtmusic]

7. Then tie your tubes

and quit crying about it. No one's forcing you to have a baby.

[readmoreoften]

12. In Mississippi and S.D., they're absolutely forcing people to have babies.

There aren't any exceptions for rape, incest, or the mother's health. That's force. As a lesbian who could only possibly get pregnant as a result of rape, I see this as a violation of my civil rights. My government should not force me to bear a rapist's child.

[cynatnite]

13. Could you clarify what you mean?

I believe I have a right to bitch about the rw nutjobs' attempt to control my body with no care as to my wishes.

If I remember right, I do have rights on whether I want to have a baby or not. My body and my choice. I get a little pissed when my rights get messed with.

Or do you prefer holier than thou types running this country?

[Katherine Brengle]

18. This is an extremely flawed argument--

Just because a woman might not want a baby at a certain point in her life, does not mean that she will never want one. Suggesting a permanent solution is not the answer, as many younger women do not want, or cannot afford to have, children at this point, but most will eventually decide to have children.

The laws that are springing up regarding OUR reproductive rights are the equivalent of forcing women to birth children--we should have every right to decide when we want to reproduce, if at all. Especially in cases where the pregnancy is the result of a forced sexual act (i.e., rape and incest).

The best birth control (other than abstinence or tubal ligation) carries a 1 or 2% possibility of failure--this means that even the most conscientious woman has a chance of becoming pregnant regardless of her best efforts once or twice in 100 sexual encounters.

[REP]

22. Tie Yours and Store Sperm

Safer and quicker than a tubal ligation. Hurts less, too.

[NMMNG]

25. So you're suggesting that women tie their tubes

the moment they begin to menstruate so that they never risk an unwanted pregnancy? Because that is what it would take after all. Rape and incest occur. Birth control fails.

Two states have already banned abortion, and others have significant restrictions in place. Therefore women are being forced to have unwanted babies right here in America.

The problem is that people who will never be faced with the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy find it all to easy to be flippant about it, and/or to put in place restrictive legislation.

[RebelOne]

30. No one is forcing us to have a baby as long as

we have the right to choose if we want that baby. I assume that you are a man, considering your statement.

[Clark2008]

31. Tie our tubes?

Jeez. The point is that we should be able to have children when WE decide - not you (or anyone else. I don't want the OP, even though she is a woman, deciding when I should have children, either).

I have a child. Don't want another right now, but may in the next four years. Why would I tie my tubes? Besides, a vasectomy is MUCH easier, medically. How 'bout we get men to do that. Hmmmm? :eyes:

[Minnesota Libra]

35. wtmusic, if men ALL men had vasectomies there would be NO......

.....unwanted pregnancies, so go have a vasectomy and quit complaining.

edited for clarity

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. You're MALE...you have no say in the matter and that is a DISGUSTING

attitude in 2006. Who the hell are YOU to tell ANY woman to get her tubes tied? It's not YOUR BODY! I cannot believe you posted that. A MAN telling a woman to get her tubes tied if she doesn't want a baby is sick. It's none of your damn business. Why are you even in this thread? Do you have a uterus????

[WildEyedLiberal]

44. Misogynist asshole

My body belongs to me. It's not a sperm incubator for you or any other man.

[REP]

21. Where I'm From, Men Don't Get Pregnant

You can call that "hyper-feminist bullshit" if you'd like, but it won't make you have an actual, compelling argument.

[Skidmore]

27. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, women actually do it all.

I hardly know any women (married or otherwise) who haven't at some point in their lives been abandoned by the fathers of their children. And it's amazing the lengths to which men will go to not have to financially or emotionally care for those children , unless forced by the court to do so. While there are some men who will step up willingly and help raise the children they have fathered, there are still a large number who would prefer to move on to the next woman and pretend that their lives before just didn't happen.

That's a reality, not BS.

[LWolf]

37. I think that's a different topic.

Related, but not the same. The point of the OP is to say that the people whose bodies get pregnant should be deciding whether or not abortion should be legal. I don't think it is a referendum on fatherhood.

As a daughter, a mom, and a grandmom, my pov has many layers on this subject, some conflicting. There are some facets of "choice" that I am not comfortable with. Still, it all has to start here. In a patriarchal society, women have been controlled by men's decisions for a long time. That has to end. It's not hyper-feminist bullshit, it is an ethical imperative.

Whether or not women can get married or not, own property or not, bear children, or not...it's not ancient history. It's a current issue.

If you want to start a discussion on the rights and roles of fathers, I'll join in. (Assuming I spot it on my once a day breeze through DU!) There's much to be said on that topic, too, but it's a different one.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. The only problem with that is the self-righteous fundie women

Who would have no problem voting a ban on abortion because THEY know that they are too Godly too ever sin and cause an unwanted pregnancy, and that if such a thing happened, it would be God's will. Don't underestimate the fundie women.

Not that they're a majority. A women-only referendum to ban abortion would still fail miserably.

[buddysmellgood]

4. No. You don't want right-wing women telling you what to do with your

uterus either. You either have a right to decide for yourself or not. I don't have a uterus, but I'm not about to put any of my body parts up for referendum.

[w8liftinglady]

5. Great reply-

and if one of these fundie women were raped by a "less-than-desirable person"....what would their reaction be?

[buddysmellgood]

9. They go to special fundie-funded super secret, clean and safe facilities

in the basement of wharehouse churches where everything is taken care of.

[cynatnite]

8. Good point, but I really believe...

majority of women support the right to choose. The point I'm trying to make is it would never happen because anyone unlike them is second class citizens. Even the women who think like them will never be considered equal.

White christian male nutjobs run this country and they would never give up their power to let lowlifes like us actually have a say.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Exactly

And it's only men who want this nonsense. Most women I have talked to even though they personally aren't for abortion themselves they do want it for rape, incest and a medical issues. These sick men don't want it for anything! :mad: They don't care about us and I'm tired of being sacrificed when a lot of them are hypocrites!

[Erika]

11. Males are held harmless

But they will dictate to women? Aided by fundie women who by defect want to be dominated by men.


We're to take these people seriously?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

14. I can't. I have a uterus in it. It would sling shit all over the place.

Life as a Sequoya



I felt the waters move
my limbs,
leaves green and new.

The winds directing
winds between
the fibres
of my being.

I felt the earth shake once.
I felt the sun most days.
I felt the large amphibian
curl round
me in peace.

I felt the egret
pinch at me
to hold against the earth.

And shit on me
to nourish me
as rains came once again.

I heard the chainsaw
I felt the teeth

cutting through the years
of me

reaching deep
into my heart.

I sigh

one final time

and wait to see
what's next.



TYJ

[hopeisaplace]

15. Perfect question for fundie woman (I think)

If you were carrying Bill Clinton's baby ....what option(s) would you
like to have available to you....??? J/K :dilemma:

No offense Mr. Clinton. I like the former Prez

[MercutioATC]

19. I'm a white male and I agree with you.

If I was in a relationship and my SO got pregnant, I believe she'd have an ethical obligation to discuss the matter with me, but the actual decision should be hers, both ethically and legally.

It shouldn't be an issue up for vote, it should be a given. Women have the right to make decisions about their own bodies, just as men do.

[Withywindle]

23. Thank you!

:hi:

I hope everyone reading this realizes that even though women don't die in childbirth in anything like the numbers we used to, it CAN still happen. A friend of mine almost died 10 years ago from high blood pressure that was a consequence of her pregnancy, that she'd never had before. Doctors saved both her and the baby, but that was no guarantee. We're talking a middle-class healthy-eating exercising non-smoking vegetarian 24-year-old. 100 years ago, she would've died. It can happen anytime.

Any woman consenting to a pregnancy IS taking on some slight risk of her life, as well as the known inevitable realities of the changes in her body for nine months and the pain and blood of birth itself.

As far as I'm concerned, the only women who should be going through this are those who very much want to be there, who are willing to go through this for the pleasure of meeting an eagerly anticipated new person, who have a joyous desire to be a mother and find the risks and the suffering worthwhile.

Period. No exceptions. We don't have to go back to the dark ages when if you were preg you took your chances no matter what. Where I grew up, there are too many tombstones of women between 15 and 30, and tiny little graves beside them.

You men, ask yourselves: would YOU?

[Freedom_Aflaim]

24. So you support sex discrimination in voting rights?

So you would trade away voting rights for abortion?

I won't get into which is more important, getting an abortion or voting.

It used to be that you needed a penis to vote. Now we have liberals no less, basing the right to vote on another sex organ.

curious.

[Clark2008]

32. OK - fine. We'll let men vote on prostate cancer treatment

if we can vote on our own uteruses (uteri?).

It's not trading voting rights - the simple fact of life and, thus far, unchangable, is that only women bear children.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

38. Nah. Gender based voting rights went out of style on 8/18/1920

we have enough problems with you-know-who violating the constituton when it suits his politics. I don't think we should emulate him.

[obxhead]

26. agreed in a way....

F,RW,E,R are making the rules, but I pose a question....

If it were left to only the women of this country where would the vote land?

There are many "second class citizens" that will vote the way their "man" tells them to and vote by the way they were brought up...

Only a thought. I agree with your point for the most part, but American feminism still needs to gain much more empowerment before the vote would be swung IMO.

Personally, I believe in your main opinion, yet have little optimism, as this is still a Catholic nation.

[rucky]

28. Why should they have to be of legal age?

Parental consent is a big issue, too. I say anyone who ovulates.

then again, I don't, so I don't really have a say in this.

[BlueIris]

29. Hows about not allowing votes on restriction of human rights instead?

Sadly, given the sorry state of your average woman's mindset about her right to choose what happens to her body in today's misogynist, Patriarchal America, if we left this issue up to women alone to decide--uh, you don't want to know how much more grotesque restriction there would be. A disgusting number of Patriarchy-fellating women are totally comfortable in the anti-choice movement. These are the pathetic specimens who never learned to say no to Daddy, their boyfriends, their wardens husbands or any number of other asshole male authority figures, and the poor souls stuck in a collectively abusive relationship with society that still wants to use them as sex-and/or-breeding-devices-for-men and nothing more.

The only way to make sure that human rights like the right to control your own reproductive health are dealt with fairly is to STOP TREATING THEM AS IF THEY ARE MERELY LUXURIES TO BE APPROVED OF OR DISAPPROVED OF BY THE GENERAL POPULATION AT THE FUCKING BALLOT BOX. Human rights shouldn't be auctioned off in the same manner upon which we vote on property taxes, if you get my meaning. Make laws only to protect these crucial civil liberties and human rights, to keep the system as it exists today from continuing to brutalize and neglect women who should have the right to prevent and end pregnancy safely, with the utmost compassion, like men would demand the unfettered right to if they had uteri--don't make any other fucking laws. Any other perspective or approach to addressing the anti-choice anathema is really missing the point if you ask me.

[The Straight Story]

33. Reminds me of the whole smoking in a bar debate

You own the bar, your patrons and workers agree with the decision to smoke as they do any ways and yet a bunch of jackasses are telling you that you are not allowed to do so.

Consenting adults making a choice.

[Minnesota Libra]

36. EVERY MALE who disagrees with abortion should be........

....required to have a vasectomy to prevent future pregnancies. That would instantly cure that issue. :toast:

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. I AGREE!

:toast:

[helderheid]

39. They took mine away but I raise my hand for my daughter.

[Greyhound]

42. NEVER! WOMEN ARE OUR PROPERTY, GIVEN TO MAN BY THE

LORD GOD ALMIGHTY! BURN THE WITCH, BURN THE WITCH!
jic :sarcasm: :banghead:

[SmokingJacket]

45. I believe support for abortion is about 60%, including men. nt