Too big a payment on credit card - HS investigates before credit applied

[JohnyCanuck]

As a retired Texas schoolteacher just found out.

They just paid a hefty chunk of their credit card balance. And they learned how frighteningly wide the net of suspicion has been cast.

After sending in the check, they checked online to see if their account had been duly credited. They learned that the check had arrived, but the amount available for credit on their account hadn't changed.

So Deana Soehnge called the credit-card company. Then Walter called.

"When you mess with my money, I want to know why," he said.

They both learned the same astounding piece of information about the little things that can set the threat sensors to beeping and blinking.

They were told, as they moved up the managerial ladder at the call center, that the amount they had sent in was much larger than their normal monthly payment. And if the increase hits a certain percentage higher than that normal payment, Homeland Security has to be notified. And the money doesn't move until the threat alert is lifted.

http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/opinions/story/3207984p-11923376c.html

From sacbee.com Free registration required, or you can try www.bugmenot.com for a login

[Stephanie]

1. oh. my. god.

i don't want to live here anymore.

[sarcasmo]

22. I second that motion.

[converted_democrat]

35. My SO used to tell me that I was over reacting when I told him I wanted

to leave.. I did some how convince him to put both our business and our house on the market though.. I'm hoping to do some "extended traveling" when we sell.. Every time I tried to bring up the subject he would say that I was over reacting.. I'm not sure what "changed him" over the course of the last two weeks, but he's not telling me I'm over reacting anymore..

[AzDar]

2. What. The. F*&k????? We need to take our Country back, folks.

Enough is enough!

[Stephanie]

3. here's a link that doesn't require login

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=RAISEALARM-02-28-06

[okieinpain]

4. ok, so like any terrorist is going tobe stupid enough to send in

a large amount of money on his CREDIT CARD...

[bluestateguy]

5. Let me see if I can get this straight

If I get a really good job at double my salary, and pay off my credit card balance, I'm going to get the attention of Agent Dave at Homeland Security?

I'm sure the CC companies are happy to cooperate with this law if it discourages people from paying down their debts and keeping an interest generating balance, lest Homeland Security be notified.

Fascism.

[Rosie1223]

6. Oh, great!

I just refinanced and paid off all my credit cards.

I guess I'm on the no-fly list now.


x(

[RazzleDazzle]

43. ROTFLMAO

Gawd, that hit my funny bone.

wiping tears from my cheeks...

[PA Democrat]

7. Yeah, right. A suicide bomber would be sure to pay off his/ her

credit card balance before doing themselves in. :eyes:

Boy, what geniuses they are over at HS.

[ThomCat]

24. They ARE being brilliant.

This has nothing to do with security. Security is just a convenient excuse.

This is all about expanding their ability to pry, monitor and control people. It's also an excuse to arbitrarily hold up money for their benefit.

[TexasLawyer]

53. I think you hit it, ThomCat. n/t

[centristo]

48. well put

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. Why do people who responsibly pay off their bills

hate America? :mad:

[SoCalDem]

9. I am SO glad we cut our cards up last year..

Haven't used anything but a debit card & cash since... No more big brother for us :)

[leftchick]

10. omg... so I can not pay my card off today like I was going to?

because I will be paying about 3000.00 more than usual?? :argh:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. DON'T LET THEM SCARE YOU!!! nt

[AllegroRondo]

11. WTF?? I paid off a card last year.

About $9,000 in one check. The CC company called me to confirm, but all it took was a three way call betwee them and my bank to complete the transaction.

[Nikki Stone 1]

12. How dare you pay off your credit card and not pay 30% interest!

It's not about the security of the nation. It is about the security of the creditor's usurious income.

[Junkdrawer]

14. Quick. Quick. Rob 'em blind before they go broke...

Shoveling it in with both hands. Their corruption gets more clever with each passing day.

[havocmom]

18. And DHS will hold up the funds for a bit while you pile up interest to pay

Gee, I bet the banks and credit companies are more than happy to help DHS! They get paid off to help the junta spy on law abiding citizens.

It's not the HOMELAND that department is protecting!

[druidity33]

76. know how quickly...

it takes for ONE late payment to screw up a mortgage application? Especially if it happens within like 5 years of a home purchase? They're just playing with us at this point. What's sickening is that they can, and no one's about to stop them anytime soon. Actually, it'll likely get worse before it gets better. What's next, you need to get pre-approved before you can pay a bill?

[Marie26]

21. Why would DHS be involved at all?

When you deposit a large check, the bank will hold it sometimes for an "investigation" before depositing it. But they don't consult fricking DHS, they look at your credit history & ID. A credit report has all the info they'd ever need to confirm identity, etc., and the CC has access to that report when you open the account. DHS, though, is a gov. agency & supposedly not allowed to collect private info on citizens w/o a warrant. Why would the CC co. need to ask DHS for an investigation? That would mean that DHS has a file on each & every one of us that they consult to check the transaction. I guess that's possible. But the CC company already has access to a huge database of info that they could use. Considering how tricky CC companies are, I'm inclined to think this is a BS excuse they used to shift blame for holding the payment, not expecting the customer to go public.

[Nikki Stone 1]

59. Good post and good question

I wonder what DHS really wants.

[sybylla]

68. Over 20 years ago, transactions over $10,000 were reported to the gov

IIRC, when I worked at a savings and loan and a credit union, the FBI, I believe, was notified, but no money was held. The transaction was merely reported, just like your interest is reported to the IRS. I'm sure it's still the case.

I remember hearing that DHS was considering something like this, but I'm quite surprised that they can hold the money.

What if you sent a $100.00 check every day? At what point do they start holding it?

[kestrel91316]

72. Bush has made it abundantly clear lately that the gov't

(in this case DHS) does not need no stinkin' warrants for anything. Ever. We are at war, haven't you noticed?

:sarcasm:

[AndyA]

15. Outrageous!

What's next? What else are they doing that we haven't found out about, yet? And why aren't we being told about these things? Where are the people we elected to look after our rights? What are they doing? :(

[loudsue]

50. WE didn't elect them: diebold did.

And the media isn't telling people because they're PART OF the government in charge....the propaganda arm.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. They should send the bill for interest to the Feds!

Geez! I'm sure the terrorists are suddenly paying off all of their debt in an effort to stay under the radar. :eyes:

[RoBear]

17. OMFG! My brother is probably on the Fatherland Security List

Sorry--couldn't resist the Nazi reference.

When my brother's wife died, they had forty-some credit cards. Since he's retired and has retirement money plus social security, his income is higher than it ever was when he was teaching (which is another discussion), so he paid off the ones that weren't in his wife's name only. He paid at the rate of a thousand or so per month, so guess what??

He lives in a small Kansas town of under 100, so he's ripe for terrorist threats. Probably will blow up the grain elevator or the senior center or something.

Sheesh. I agree with the poster who said "I don't want to live here anymore."

[quiet.american]

27. Wow -- *forty* credit cards -- is that about average or higher than usual?

I've done everything I can to not buy into what I've always perceived as extortion on the part of credit card companies, in that at one time one was almost forced to get one because everyone was demanding to see them as part of your ID, so I don't really have an idea of whether 40 credit cards is about an average number to have.

It's great to hear his retirement income is good, though! :)

[Art_from_Ark]

70. Who can keep track of 40 credit cards???

I have enough trouble as it is with just 1 :crazy:

[WinkyDink]

75. Really? My retired teacher husband's went from $70,000 to about

$45,000, gross, counting S.S., in Pennsylvania. I'd like to know Kansas' trick.

[Marie26]

19. This might be DHS

But am I the only one who thinks it could be an excuse by the credit card company? They love to rack up those late fees, & hate it when people pay off their account. If they hold up a check for "investigation", they can get a possible late fee & encourage people not to make big payments on the account. They are that shady.

[phylny]

40. You're not the only one.

I got my business credit card bill and I had a balance from the previous month. I knew this couldn't be right. Then I got a notice saying that my account was overdue. I called because I *know* I sent a check in at the very beginning of the month. My company gets paid, I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, I pay my mileage, I pay myself.

After I got the notice, I called and said, "You HAVEN'T received my payment yet? I sent it out on February 2nd."

He replied, "The payment was posted to your account on February 17th."

I asked, "What date did you RECEIVE the payment?"

"Well, I don't know, it doesn't say that here, it just said that the payment was posted on the 17th."

I'm going to call and demand that if they can't tell me the date they received it, then I want them to remove the $29 late fee.

[seemunkee]

20. I was going to make a large payment this month

Thanks to my in-laws we were going to pay it off. I think I'll space it out over a couple of months instead.

[Marie26]

25. Please don't let them scare you

CC companies don't want you to pay off your account. If you space it out over two months, that's two times the interest payments for them. This story works in their interest - if people are suddenly afraid to pay off their accounts, it's more money for them. Right now, late fees & penalty interest rates are creating sky-high profits for CC companies. The CC companies then use this huge amount of money to hire lobbyists in Wash., who create laws giving them complete power to exploit consumers. I think the most progressive, revolutionary thing people can do to stop corporations is to simply cut up their credit cards.

[Mind_your_head]

61. Marie26 is correct.....

If you can do it, pay it off NOW (while you can) and be done with those credit card companies!

[jberryhill]

23. The CC company told them that....

It sounds like a story made up by the credit card company in order to hold the payment until interest was due. They will do anything to make on-time payments into late payments, and it wouldn't surprise me that the Homeland Security thing is just something the credit card folks made up.

The only source of the "security" information is the people who stand to gain an interest payment.

[lisby]

26. Jeebus.

And I was just about to pay off my Discover card.

:hide: :scared:

Lisby

[Hubert Flottz]

28. Well...

I hate to shake up Mr Chertoff Or Whateveroff...But I have GOT to take a serious CRAP!

EDIT...Mr Pretzeldunce Hubert is downloading a jebbie you won't believe!

[gristy]

29. So, Homeland Security hears about me every month?

I pay off my credit card every month. A lot of other non-terrorists do too. This story doesn't make sense.

[JohnyCanuck]

31. If you normally pay off the bill every month

and your bill are roughly the same every month then it would not trigger an alarm. According to the story, the HS alarm is only triggered when you suddenly make a higher than normal payment. I would assume it's probably set up to flag a payment that's higher than average by some predetemined percentage.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. I used to work in credit card fraud prevention

A much larger than normal amount always sets off the alarm bells in the fraud department, and the crediting of the account will often be held up until either 1) verification of the check clearing or 2) investigation into the source of the check, if it is a 3rd party check (so, for example, some people with large balances get their parents to loan them the money at a lower rate, so their parents write the check to the credit card company; as a third party check, it would be verified with the bank and the third party - needless to say, some people check kite by writing bad checks on their own parents checking accounts, so the third party is often quite surprised to hear that they paid off a $3,000 bill for their grown son, etc.). I have never in all my days heard of reporting such activity to any government agency whatsoever unless the fraud has already been proved and you have an actual suspect who will not pay. You heard that right. Even if we proved a fraud and caught a suspect, we would always give them the option to pay the bill before reprting them to even local authorities. At the other extreme are the professional check kiters: they get a credit card under a false or stolen identity, charge the hell out of it for a week, send in a fake check and try to charge some more in the interim (between the arrival of the check and the non-payment). The professionals were good, because they were only paper and cloned cell phones: nobody really existed on the other end. The goal of the fraud department in such casdes is merely to stop the bleeding, not to catch anyone, which is generally impossible and inefficient anyway. For these frauds, we "stopped" the fraud all the time, and never reported jack shit to authorities, because it was just a plain old check kiting scheme, and the best we could do was stop it. Perhaps the department providing the government with statistics on such things quarterly, or something, but I never heard of getting any government agency involved in the actual process as it was ongoing! It's completely ridiculous. Mostly, the red flagged accounts are perfectly fine: it's a wide-net procedure. So, we'd be pissing off customers enough with the slight delay in crediting their accounts. To also refer them to DHS seems like bad business, as well as dubious security. I caught about 40-50 check kiters a week, out of 900 or so flagged accounts. Having to refer all that to DHS seems silly, and overkill.

[Gormy Cuss]

33. Thank you for that explanation

This story didn't seem right to me (that is, that it was required to notify HS) but I don't know enough about CC company procedures to guess why they would do something like this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. I cnnot imagine that every such transaction is reported

There are literally thousands of such transactions evry day. If the Patriot Act calls for such reporting, I'd assume that the CC companies would be up in fucking arms about it, as it would indeed be a burdensome reporting task, perhaps requiring several full time staff doing just that in every fraud department in the country. It is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Hell, the securities industry is annoyed that the Patriot Act requires them to bother clients for "street addresses" when they live in rural areas and use PO Boxes (when they have no real street address), and that's a small fraction of clients. Reporting large payments to HS? Laughable. The entire industry is premised on large payments between accounts for the purpose of transferring balances, often acomplished with 3rd Party "convenience checks" (by the way, if your credit card company sends you these fraud machines, tell them to stop...they are the most frequently used check kiting devices, and are stolen by the thousands right out of mail trucks). Wouldn't it be just as easy for terrorists to transfer balances? It makes no sense.

[Gormy Cuss]

36. Those freaking convenience checks ....

It took several attempts with each company to stop that practice. With one company I ended up telling them they had a choice -- stop sending them or close the account.

[NYC]

45. ...Homeland Security has to be notified.

See post #44.

(Sorry I didn't copy and paste, but the link had already been truncated.)

[Gormy Cuss]

54. The article only states that the customer was told this.

A bad article, slim on facts and long on hand-wringing. After looking around for what might really be going on here, I believe it's part of the Bank Secrecy (not privacy) Act of 1999 that requires financial institutions to report customer behavior that is out of the ordinary. It was intended to identify money laundering like the older rule that required banks to report single cash transactions of $10,000 or more to the Feds.

The new regulation is so vaguely written that the financial institution decides what constitutes unusual and since it's now covered under the USAPatriot Act, that means Homeland Security gets its grubby little hands on the information and can add it to its citizen spying data even though you have done nothing illegal.

The USAPatriot Act was renewed today. Aren't we glad?

[NYC]

58. Yes, I heard it was renewed.

I guess we are stuck with it at least through the Bush years.

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. That's the point...I find that extremely dubious having worked in the

industry.

It would be too much information and it wouldn't be of much value. I don't think that's the case.

But yes, I know that's what the article says, but notice that nobody at DHS confirms that, nor does anyone from the company confirm saying anything like that. Critical reading, yeah?

[NYC]

57. Yes, but I would not expect

Homeland Security to tell us voluntarily if it is true. Put it this way, it's worth keeping in mind.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. I'm telling you it would be close to impossible for CC companies to comply

Ridiculous. There's too much volume.

[f-bush]

32. These past four years I have been saying that we are

living in the Fourth Reich. It's time to take to the streets!!!!

[Yavin4]

37. Everyone on this Thread Needs to Relax About This

We post on DU. Our names, phone numbers, e-mail address, SSN, home address, and probably the color of our urine are probably in multiple tables in some NSA database.

We're already red flagged. What's one more.

[hootinholler]

38. Patriot Act in action.

This is probably a requirement of the PA. Call your Senators and Reps. to complain.

-Hoot

[DarkTirade]

39. Well I guess I'm about to be on the most wanted list...

as soon as I get my bonus for the project I'm working on right now, I'm planning on paying off all/as much as possible on my card...

[thinkingwoman]

41. I make huge payments to cards

a few times each year.

I regularly max out my cards, make the minimums for awhile, then pick a child support or paycheck to apply completely to the credit card.

My payments are NEVER held up....and that's after $40 payments one month, $600 payments the next. Seriously.

There must be more to this story. Truly.

[NYC]

44. ...they sent in a large payment, a check for $6,522.

...They were told, as they moved up the managerial ladder at the call center, that the amount they had sent in was much larger than their normal monthly payment. And if the increase hits a certain percentage higher than that normal payment, Homeland Security has to be notified. And the money doesn't move until the threat alert is lifted...

...They never did learn how a large credit card payment can pose a security threat...

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=RAISEALARM-02-28-06

[thinkingwoman]

46. obviously, they don't have a good answer

for how it poses a threat.

That is a pretty big payment, but still...

[NYC]

47. A big payment could come from many sources.

Won the lottery, won playing poker, collected money someone owed you, inherited, severance pay, etc. There are many ways of acquiring a lump sum of money. Or you could decide to take it out of a savings account so you can stop paying credit card interest.

Pretty unbelievable that Homeland Security has to get involved.

[thinkingwoman]

49. stop paying credit card interest??

Now there's your threat to homeland security! :sarcasm:

[NYC]

51. How unAmerican.

Is Homeland Security the new version of HUAC? Can't have people not paying credit card interest.

[thinkingwoman]

64. uh oh, now I feel stupid

what's HUAC?

[NYC]

71. You're probably too young.

House Unamerican Activities Committee. McCarthy era.

[thinkingwoman]

73. Ahhh, you're so sweet!

I was just feeling pretty old before opening your post. Now, I feel young again! :-)

I was born in 65. Yep, just a touch too young to recognize the letters. Thanks for clueing me in!

[Roland99]

42. I wonder if it has to be over a certain dollar amount first.

I paid down a credit card balance but it has a low credit limit and there was no delay.

[Ilsa]

52. The delay in payment probably cost the man a late fee, I bet, and

additional interest of $80 or thereabouts. I wonder if they backed that out?

[54anickel]

55. Weird. There was a thread about beefing up the IRS for tax evasion -

wonder if it's somewhat related. They are concerned about the underground economy and all. Folks working for cash and whatnot.

Certainly is wide net they are casting these days. This sh*t just really pisses me off. It used to be that the banks had to notify the Fed on cash transactions over $10K. Sheesh, now they notify them when you freakin' sneeze. I'm sure they have complete access to the activity on all our accounts anyway. :grr:

[Trillo]

60. Time to cancel that check. NT

[Pooka Fey]

63. OMFG

[nonconformist]

65. OMG. nt

[BiggJawn]

66. Must have been one HUGH! furkin' payment....

What's their "minimum? $5,000?
I paid-off a $300 balance on my 28% card and didn't get the funds held up or a visit from Agent Mike.

Of course, I didn't pay it in small bills either...

[toddaa]

67. Why DUers are suddenly stunned by this is what scares me

This shit has been going on for twenty years. It dates back to the War on Drugs(tm), which has now conveniently morphed into the War on Terror(tm). Nobody gave a shit when it was used against "drug king pins", but now that its being used against middle class white people, it's suddenly an abuse of government power.

Welcome to the police state. Doesn't matter which party's in power, you have no rights.

[lectrobyte]

80. I remember reading about folks who were raided because of

being suspected of growing marijuana based on their electricity usage patterns. They were sure that people had to have a basement full of grow lights, so they'd raid some family somewhere.

[mike_c]

69. I dunno, makes sense to me....

Good Amerikans don't pay off their credit card bills, they just chunk along in debt to the credit banks, and consume in the name of the homeland.

[Singular73]

74. Oh please people....

How many people do you guys think work for DHS?

Do you have idea what the manpower required would be to keep track of this? There are like 150 MILLION people in this country with credit cards.

Hell, if they had this kind of manpower, they'd audit every citizen in the US...thats where the real money is lol.

[converted_democrat]

78. You're joking right? They have been beefing up their rolls en mass..

In my area alone there are 4 colleges that teach Homeland Security.. That's right, they offer degrees in Homeland Security whatever the heck that means..(They advertise on the local channels around the clock, that's how I know about it..) The scariest part is that if you complete the courses they guarantee you a job.. That's 600 people in one small area.. I live in the woods.. What do they need that many Homeland Security people for?

[electron_blue]

77. I don't believe it. Any credible link?

One I don't have to register for. I routinely pay off my credit card, even in the thousands sometimes and have never had a problem. Again - can you verify this story?

[lectrobyte]

81. Here's one.

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=RAISEALARM-02-28-06

If I had more time, I'd probably sit down and try to find these people, and
give them a call myself. It seems pretty believable to me.

[Gormy Cuss]

82. The Bank Secrecy Act of 1996

It was intended to ferret out money laundering. Read the guidelines for what constitutes suspicious behavior. It's pretty sobering.
Among other things, if you give the bank an invalid home phone number when you open an account or opening an account in a location that isn't near your stated place of employment or residence (page 19), and if you pay off a large balance without explanation (page 17.)

The Patriot Act put oversight under Homeland Security.

http://www.occ.treas.gov/handbook/bsa.pdf

[progressoid]

79. Well that's perfectly sensible

If I was a terrarist, I would certainly pay off my credit card bill before I blow myself up.

[newportdadde]

83. Other large money amounts such as CDs over 10k get reported as well.

I don't believe that is new because of HS really but when you move large amounts of cash, even just withdrawing from the bank it will get flagged.

Hey remember how Bob Dole a few years ago was found withdrawing large of amounts of cash? I forget the details but he was taking out just the right amount to throw that flag.