Christian courtship...

[Bigmack]

Just when you think things can't get more bizarre....
- - - - -
For devout couples, love is divine

Conservative Christian courtship highlights God's role in finding the one

By TOM HEINEN
[e-mail]

Posted: Feb. 11, 2006

Oriel O'Gorman knelt on one knee and proposed to Heather Pardee atop a castle turret in Northern Ireland with votive candles flickering on the battlements and scattered, moist rose petals glistening around them.

But any resemblance between their special moment and a torrid scene from a romance novel ends there. The two 23-year-olds won't have their first kiss until they wed March 4 at Falls Baptist Church in suburban Milwaukee. He is thinking about buying Valentine's Day roses for Pardee this week, but there won't be any hand-holding.

Evoking images of bygone eras, the time that O'Gorman and Pardee spend together is in public, within view of family members or within earshot through an open door. Their parents did not arrange their pairing, but neither young person would have gone ahead without consultation and approval from their parents.

At the heart of this type of courtship are beliefs that God, rather than romantic feelings, should guide young people to their ideal mate with assistance from parents, who have biblically-given authority over even adult children.

In the church's model, the young man initiates contact by having his father go to the woman's father for permission to court her with a goal of marriage. Mother and father then confer. If permission is granted, either young person may call off the courtship at any point.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=400999

[MadMaddie]

1. Yup and when they marry and realize that....

they are not compatible in the bed or just living together....they will get divorced....

The divorce rate will go even higher in......

[hedgehog]

4. Let's be honest here,

has anyone ever actually heard of a case in which two people like each other,respect each other, have common interests, common goals, common views etc etc who get married, go to bed together and then go OMG, We're just not compatible in bed!

[sui generis]

23. all the time

they end up having "open" relationships to get sexual satisfaction elsewhere.

You gotta get out more.

[Tesha]

24. Sure: All those Conservative Christian Closet Cases!

> Let's be honest here, has anyone ever actually heard
> of a case in which two people like each other,respect
> each other, have common interests, common goals, common
> views etc etc who get married, go to bed together and
> then go OMG, We're just not compatible in bed!

Sure: All those Conservative Christian Closet Cases
who only "discover" they're homosexual after they
marry some poor woman/man.

Tesha

[stanwyck]

31. spend just one day at your local courthouse

don't discount the importance of sexual attraction. A couple can line up perfectly on paper. But if they can't manage a satifactory sex life, it's only a matter of time before the rest of the compatibility is eroded.
There has to be a strong, animal spark of attraction. And, face it, that just doesn't happen with every possible partner. We've all met the "perfect" man/woman....except...except. It just isn't there. And it can't be manufactured.

[thecrow]

11. How would they even know that they're not compatible??

[MadMaddie]

13. How would they know they are compatible?

That's all I was saying.....

More power to them if it works....

[Tesha]

25. They might start to suspect when...

> How would they even know that they're not compatible??

They might start to suspect when the little pink indicator
never points up on the old lust, err, love scale.

Tesha

[Skidmore]

2. Screaming back to the Middle Ages at an astounding speed,

aren't we?

[LostinVA]

14. Definitely not the Middle Ages -- maybe middle Class Victorian Age

[sui generis]

3. reality check

the real reason men want virgins to marry is because they DON'T want comparison. Of course, that street runs two ways.

This is not just a christian thing.

Wrapping all this hoo haw in "holiness" and "sanctimony" is just another sad side effect of religion's version of reproductive control.

[hedgehog]

6. Maybe the guy's a romantic waiting for his true love.

Jealous?

[sui generis]

10. I have my true love. R U Jealous?

And lots and lots of hot monkey sex before during and possibly even again tonight.

Jealous?

And I'm very romantic - I just don't have my panties all the way up my ass about sex.

[AllegroRondo]

9. Theres an old joke about that

A couple is celebrating their 50th anniversary with a nice dinner out.

After the meal, the husband says "So, after 50 years of marriage, do you have any regrets?"

The wife thinks about it, then slaps his face. "Thats for 50 years of awful sex."

The husband thinks about it, then slaps her face. "Thats for knowing the difference."

[mtnsnake]

5. Instead of getting married, this guy needs to go here:

http://www.diocese-sacramento.org/vocations/prsthood.htm

[Rowdyboy]

7. Hey, if it makes them happy, why should I care.....

I can guarantee that 99.99% of Americans today would have no interest in "biblical courtship" but if these guys are happy with the situation, go for it. They're sorta taking it to the extreme though-no hand holding? Whats up with that? :shrug:

[Occulus]

17. You should care because

they will make certain you will care if they are allowed to have their way.

You will care- or you will pay the price they set.

Why am I telling you this, when you should already know? Alito, for example, apparently thinks we're "allowed" to "behave as we do" or some such.

That's why you should care.... because these people are dangerously religious.

[DerekG]

34. The men who truly run this country could care less about your sex life

In fascist America, the average citizen will remain free to "hook-up" to his/her heart's content. Sure, you'll be working for a slave wage, throwing your children into the grind of the war machine, and drinking poisonous water, but rest assured, consuming and f---ing will be encouraged.

[Katherine Brengle]

18. Good point--

I admit that I do worry that people whose relationships play out this way may not be completely happy in the long run, I also worry that people whose relationships are completely "normal" will not be happy in the long run.

Who knows--maybe these two have a really amazing connection, are best friends, and will have a long and wonderful marriage. Or, they might get married, realize thay have absolutely no sexual chemistry, and languish for years in an uncomfortable situation before eventually opting out.

I'm not clairvoyant, I have no idea. (I agree that the proposal sounded really romantic though!)

(BTW someone else said something like "has anyone ever heard of a couple that blah blah blah (happy stuff) and had no sexual chemistry?"--the answer is absolutely yes. Just because you have things in common with someone, can carry on a conversation, have similar hopes and dreams for the future, doesn't mean that there is a romantic spark.)

[noonwitch]

8. The method of proposal is very romantic.

This is how they choose to live, and it works for them. It may seem extreme to those of us who at the very least were kissing our boyfriends (or girlfriends) as preteens and teens, but, it's what they want.

We had neighbors in Grand Rapids who were very strict about such things. My brother asked a female friend (no romance) to prom their senior year. He had to ask her father's permission, and he refused because he didn't want his daughter to dance or listen to rock music. My brother then asked if he could take the girl out to a good restaurant that night instead, and the father approved.

I babysat for the people across the street, who were equally strict with their daughter.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

12. Footloose?

No dancing or rock music? Wow, these people really exist?:wtf: And I always thought it was just a movie.

[Occulus]

15. What sad, pathetic, soulless lives these people lead

Perfect example of why I will not subscribe to any organized religion, ever.

They, religions, inherently involve a loss of self- and they already take enough from people like me without our permission or involvment as it is.

[meegbear]

16. If God is supposed to guide one to their ideal mate ...

why do they need the parents? I would think an all mighty entity would trump mom and dad.

[Bigmack]

19. Their god is very busy right now...

... what with * fucking up so much.

[Warpy]

20. Marriage is a total crapshoot

I know kids who "had" to get married at 16 who are still together in their late 50s. I know May-December marriages where "May" is the guy that have thived for 30 years. I know foreign arranged marriages that are good ones

I know marriages where they waited until they were over 25, went through church counseling, consulted the parents, and saved a lot of money and they split after 5 years, with and without kids. I know arrranged marrages that are horror shows. I know people who lived together first to get to know each other who split soon after marriage. I know religious types who barely touched before the wedding night who lasted two weeks.

I don't think there's any predictor, we're all too different.

[Patiod]

21. Hey, at least they made the choice, unlike my Indian clients

almost all of my Indian clients (all male) are in arranged marriages, both those born in India and even the "Desis" born here. Although I think they get to meet their future wife and "veto" the arrangement, it doesn't seem that happens too often.

They all seem happy enough (not that they would complain to a non-Indian female supplier). The matches are usually similar in class and education - some of the wives are Indian-born, some "Desis" and some Canadian-born. All of the wives, even those with advanced degrees, are stay-at-home moms.

So these kind of "wait-until-marriage" things are not by definition "doomed". Not the way I'd do it, but if it works for you and your culture, what the heck.

[Ohio Joe]

27. Not all of the wives stay at home

I've worked alongside a great number of people from India for many years now and I would not say that all of he wives become stay at home... not by a long shot. I work with many married women from India, some that have children and some that don't. I believe in the past it was true but not nearly as much today.

[Patiod]

28. I'll qualify that - all my clients who are Managers at Big Pharma

have wives who stay at home. Maybe just a sampling error, as we say in our business.

[Patiod]

29. OhioJoe - I forgot to ask

Are they in arranged marriages? Or is that also a function of the type of people I am working with?

[Ohio Joe]

30. Correct, arranged marriages

I agree and have seen the same things as everything else you posted. The people I work with are various computer people. Ranging from mid level programming types to middle management. In my current department (about 300 people), there have been six different women from India that have given birth and all of them have either already returned to work or have confirmed they are coming back.

[phylny]

32. Yup. We had neighbors once from India.

She said to me, "You and 'Jim' have love marriage. Me and 'Joe' have arrange marriage."

They were very lucky. Both wonderful, warm, loving people, kind and caring. But I don't now how often that happens.

[ContraBass Black]

22. I don't give a damn. No one forced them.

I hope they're happy.

[Dorian Gray]

26. Me too.

[LeaveIraqNow]

33. Why does this matter.

Why should we care about this? They could want to live in cave for all I care as long as they don't bother me.