OK. I've heard Orleans Parish was left of the state of emergency, BUT...

[Brotherjohn]

... THIS is just too wierd to be coincidental.

I just got a look at that Federal State of Emergency issued for Louisiana just prior to Katrina, on the White House's own web page (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html). I had heard that Orleans Parish was "inadvernently" left off due to a "clerical" error.

That was the WH story, anyway.

But here's what it actually says:
"to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

I immediately noticed that not only was Orleans not on that list, but neither was St. Bernard, Jefferson, Plaquemines, Lafourche, or St. Tammany.

So I just went through a map of Louisiana, and found that EVERY coastal parish, and inland up to about I-10, was left OFF that list.

I'm not prone to wearing tin-foil hats or anything. But either this is one of the biggest pieces of evidence of sheer incompetence to come out of the White House yet, or there was an intentional "clerical" error to somehow alleviate the WH of legal responsibility for failure.

[MadMaddie]

1. This is intentional.....there is no way this could have been...

accidental....

I don't believe in coincidences with the * cabal....everything they do has one purpose and one purpose only...that is to enrich their rich business buddies....that Gulf Coast property is valuable.....

It's hard to let the mind wander down that road but it is becoming more apparant as the days go by that it was intentional.....

[Brotherjohn]

3. I "sorta" see how it could be "clerical"... but JEEZUS, how incompetent...

... does one have to BE?!

First, one has to create a list of all the coastal parishes, somehow compiling that list from the list of all LA parishes.

Then, one has to inadvertently cut & paste the WRONG list (the names that have been removed from the "coastal" list) into the OFFICIAL State of Emergency declaration.

THEN, this OFFICIAL State of Emergency declaration has to get through a review process which, I assume, means at least a few higher ups at the White House glancing at it (and not noticing that Orleans, or Jefferson, or any other coastal LA parishes are on it).

THEN, it has to be RELEASED as the OFFICIAL State of Emergency declaration.

Did I say this was an OFFICIAL State of Emergency declaration?

Now, history tells me that this WH is capable of great levels of incompetence. But this strains the imagination.

On the other hand, I'm unclear on just what the ramifications, legally, of leaving all of the parishes MOST at risk OFF of the declaration would be.

[MadMaddie]

7. It's criminal......Depraved Indifference to Human Life...

<snip>
On the other hand, I'm unclear on just what the ramifications, legally, of leaving all of the parishes MOST at risk OFF of the declaration would be.
<snip>

Here is a link that has the definitions to the right of all our KIA miliary soldiars...I think it can be used for our soldiers and the NO victims...

http://mvp-seattle.com/Pages/ExtraPages/pageDepraved.htm

[file83]

2. Maybe the "clerical" error they were referring to was the Supreme Court's

2000 decision to put Bush into the Whitehouse? Or maybe it was the "clerical" error by the Diebold central tabulating servers from the 2004 election?

There are "errors" and then there are errors. Know what I mean?

[Swamp Rat]

4. Just one more bit of evidence proving Bushler committed genocide.

[aquart]

5. You are truly misusing the word "genocide."

[Swamp Rat]

9. Look, I saw your posts on this before and I will disagree with you all day

I saw lots of BLACK PEOPLE DIE AFTER HELP WAS WITHHELD ON PURPOSE here in New Orleans.

That = genocide in my book.

"gen·o·cide P Pronunciation Key (jn-sd) n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group."

They planned to exterminate BLACK PEOPLE and LIBERALS and GAYS in New Orleans, and carried the plan through. That is a fact. The evidence is buried all around me. The smell of death is still in my nostrils. THERE ARE DEAD PEOPLE STILL IN HOUSES HERE!!! ... WHY GODAMMIT?!? :mad:

The rest of you Americans can live in your bubble up until it pops, and believe me, it will, but don't try to teach me the English language.

I am making an accusation and I'm sticking to it.

BUSHLER COMMITTED GENOCIDE!!

[aquart]

19. No. Mass murder. Yes. Using "genocide" as hyperbole sucks.

Misusing words does not help your argument or your cause.

And shouting at me does not improve your poor choice of words.

You seem to think if you don't exaggerate what happened, that nobody will notice. You effectively do the opposite.

You have an absolute right to your rage. Find better, more truthful words.

[Swamp Rat]

20. That is your opinion.

I can use whatever words I want to describe what happened to us in New Orleans: 'Genocide' and 'ethnocide' are appropriate. Those are "truthful words," but you are inclined to disagree. You are not here and did not experience it, so I understand your perspective. Do not compare it to other historical examples of genocide. This is our own, unique example of genocide.

"hyperbole sucks" - is a poor choice of words. You were not here. You did not SEE the death and destruction first hand.

"You seem to think if you don't exaggerate what happened, that nobody will notice. You effectively do the opposite." - "Exaggerate?!?" Have you even been to the 9th Ward or Gentilly? And how do you know what I am thinking?

I admit I have strong feelings about what I see and smell around me, which probably colours my thinking, and I have refrained from using the word 'genicode' when referring to New Orleans, but since we now know for a fact Bushler withheld help, I have revised my thinking. After seeing the Bushler lie revealed on TV yesterday, many people I know in New Orleans are now calling it 'genocide'.

You will likely never understand how we feel until it happens to your community (I sincerely hope that does not happen).

The definitional article included in the 1948 convention stipulates:

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

[pitohui]

6. how do you figure it's genocide?

the racial make-up of st. bernard, jefferson, plaquemines, and st. tammany parishes is not even close to the same as the racial make-up of orleans parish

my tinfoil hat says that bush is a retard and his administrators fuck-ups, but the word genocide can't apply when you are talking abt as diverse a group of peoples as have ever experienced a natural disaster in the usa, i doubt that little nero has ever even heard of some of the affected groups, such as the islenos of st. bernard who pretty much lost everything

it's hurtful to think that all this happened because our leaders are stupid and really don't care and there never was any deep meaning or any deep purpose to all this pain but there it is, there ain't no more, there was no plan, no hitler's mein kampf, just stupid pointless idiots doing stupid pointless things

[Swamp Rat]

10. Does "ethnocide" fit better?

I'm willing to call what happened "ethnocide" because it also applies. Bushler has committed mass murder: genocide (Iraq), ethnocide (New Orleans), homicide (Gulf Coast)... shall I go on?

:mad:

[pitohui]

13. homicide is good enough for me

i think for it to be genocide or ethnocide there has to be a plan to pick out particular racial or religious groups and this requires some ideology

my opinion of bush is that he is a nihilist, who figures nothing is real except the dollar bill, race or religious hatred is something he'll exploit to put an extra nickel in his pocket but at the end of the day it ain't abt black or white or arab or jew or protestant or catholic, it's about green

he'll "let it happen on purpose" because, in the end, urban areas are democratic and why should he lift one tiny finger to save the life of a new yorker or a new orleanian who would never vote for him anyway

so i'd call that homicide albeit on a scale to make his good friend henry lee lucas look like an amateur

[ninkasi]

14. If news crews could get into New Orleans

Why couldn't FEMA? My husband and I couldn't believe how long it took for any kind of help to arrive, and there were groups who were TURNED AWAY from helping by the government. We watched people die, and people desperate for help, and there is no way in hell that all of the neglect was accidental.

Concerning the other areas affected, ones where the population was mostly white, I truly believe that Bush and his cabal were willing to let them die too, just so they would turn New Orleans into a "white" city. It didn't matter to them who suffered, or died, just so they could get their hands on New Orleans.

Maybe this is too tinfoil hat on my part, but New Orleans was the prize, the jewel they wanted. I guess their past actions tell me that they will stoop to any depths to get their way.

[pitohui]

16. they're just pure-dee incompetent in my view

why didn't they have sufficient aid in mississippi? why not sufficient troops on the ground in biloxi -- where they have a freakin air force base after all -- in advance of the storm? i think there's a point at which we have to remember that bush and many of his advisors are just not all that damn bright

i think there's a misconception in the nat'l media that there was no looting and no fear in the aftermath of katrina in biloxi, actually there was plenty but it wasn't given the same play, no way the nat'l press is going to admit that white middle class people were also being abandoned

the media covered up as much as it reported frankly

if they wanted new orleans what did they want it for? you could have bought every parcel of land in orleans parish for way cheaper than this

hell they had a story (maybe two stories) in esquire abt mississippi families who lost family members in iraq and then their homes on the coast & were still having trouble getting aid or getting other family members in the service returned from iraq, why eat your own like that, what does it gain you? i just can't believe there is any purpose to such actions, they are pure stupidity and inefficiency

[ninkasi]

18. You're probably right

it's just that this administration has been so greedy and corrupt, that I wouldn't have put it past them to let New Orleans die on purpose. I know they could have bought land cheap, but then again, even if they bought property, some was owned by black families who might not have wanted to sell. Many people had deep roots in their communities, and there is something about HOME, familiar neighborhoods, familiar surroundings, that would have prevented people from selling.

Maybe it's because New Orleans has always seemed such a magical place for me, so beautiful, and filled with so much rich history, that I can see the Bush gang wanting to get their hands on it. I know white families were hurt by Katrina, too, but this is not a crowd who cares so much about color as about status. This Bush gang will stop at nothing to get what they want, and I believe that after completely botching up the rescue and recovery efforts, they WILL be able to buy property cheaper.

I do agree, though, that they are criminally incompetent.

[SmokingJacket]

8. I remember pointing it out at the time...

And someone here on DU explained it to me. They said that those parishes listed were somehow "additional" and weren't normally included in flood emergencies... at least that's how I remember it; I couldn't find the thread in the archives... :shrug:

[Brotherjohn]

11. Okay, I just saw a possible (though still suspect) explanation: Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fema827map.gif
That's not the exact link, but shows the map. i acn't find the exact link right now.

The wording I saw said something about coastal counties being left out b/c it was typical to withhold authorizing FEMA yet to go into the counties most at risk as a storm approached.

I'm not sure about that reasoning. But even so, then why wasn't the declaration updated to include those parishes immediately after the storm?

Sounds fishy to me.

[KamaAina]

12. There is this WH press release from 8/29

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050829-2.html

reading in part:

The President's action makes Federal funding available to affected individuals in the parishes of Acadia, Ascension, Assumption, Calcasieu, Cameron, East Baton Rouge, East Feliciana, Iberia, Iberville, Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Lafayette, Lafourche, Livingston, Orleans, Plaquemines, Pointe Coupee, St. Bernard, St. Charles, St. Helena, St. James, St. John, St. Mary, St. Martin, St. Tammany, Tangipahoa, Terrebonne, Vermilion, Washington, West Baton Rouge, and West Feliciana. Assistance can include grants for temporary housing and home repairs, low-cost loans to cover uninsured property losses, and other programs to help individuals and business owners recover from the effects of the disaster.

Here the coastal parishes, including Orleans, are covered. But who knows what cost, human as well as financial, the two-day delay brought?

[pitohui]

15. troops should have been in place BEFORE the storm

before other large hurricanes, troops and medical support would be put in place in advance, it is hard to explain why the federal gov't withheld those supplies in the case of a storm the size of katrina

there was one -- ONE -- man from FEMA in new orleans at the time of the disaster, drownie brownie was emailing the guy and telling him that there were medical workers from FEMA in the superdome, the dude had to explain in words of one syllable that there were ZERO medical folks from FEMA on hand, the one FEMA guy himself was sleeping on the floor and "crapping in front of 30,000 people" in his lovely words

aid was deliberately withheld, partly from incompetence, partly to try to hide that too many of our local louisiana and mississippi nat'l guard & reserves were in iraq and not available for immediate aid, and, yeah, prob. because there was a thought of why bother, they're democrats anyway? in the case of orleans parish

however we can't really forget that aid was also delayed and denied to st. bernard and other republican areas, which is why i put a lot of emphasis on incompetence, i know a couple in st. bernard parish who had to be rescued off their roof by the MOUNTIES because the fuckin usa gov't was missing in action

so they eat their own, it isn't just that they decided to shit on the democrats or the poor people or the black people, they fucked everybody over, even trent lott is bitchin

[SmokingJacket]

17. Yeah, I agree.

They care only a hair more for poor white republicans than for blacks, dems, or anyone -- they shit on anyone who isn't a Pioneer-level donor or a member of a royal family of an oil-rich country.