Ted Kennedy's Father Was a Nazi Sympathizer?

[stepnw1f]

I just heard Thom Hartman's guest just now...

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

1. Wasn't he better described as an isolationist?

[Jackpine Radical]

8. More than that.

A lot of IRA sympathizers saw Italy, Germany & Franco's Spain as allies because they opposed the British. Also, Italy, Spain & half of Germany are Catholic.

[Warpy]

24. Good points, plus Hitler in the 30s was seen as a savior

by rich men who hated FDR's progressive income tax funding the recovery from the depression on their overpadded backs.

[WinkyDink]

42. The U.S Ambassador to the Court of St. James was hardly anti-British.

In fact, the Kennedys were Anglophiles (Kick marrying a Brit, Pat and Peter Lawford, e.g.), and "used" their "Irish" to get votes.

[midnight]

2. Who's Thom?

What was his evidence? That Joe didn't want to drag the United States into war?

[stepnw1f]

7. Thom Hartman's Guest: Chuck Morris

God forbid running for Congress in the 4th district here in Massachusetts.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Rightwinger

[Greeby]

3. He also made Rosemary Kennedy have a lobotomy

Doesn't mean Ted is inclined to do the same

[dflprincess]

11. He was an isolationist, not a sympathizer

And he listened to doctors when it came to Rosemary's lobotomy, he didn't dream it up himself.

Joe Kennedy was a bastard in a lot of ways, but all evidence points to him loving his children. I don't think he wanted his sons to go to war and I don't believe he would have let the doctors operate on Rosemary had they told him what could happen as a result.

[Greeby]

12. Still it's obviously guilt by association

And if we're going to play the "old man loved the Nazis" game, lets see what this puke on Hartmann's show has to say about Prescott Bush :think:

[democracyindanger]

14. Important distinction

An isolationist is one thing. A sympathizer is something else, like an American who set up and managed Nazi bank accounts, eventually getting charged under the Trading With The Enemy Act and whose name was Prescott Bush.

[LostinVA]

57. And, the man lost a son to the war, and had another one serve

Old Man Kennedy was a whore-mongering bastard, but he certainly wasn't a Nazi sympathizer, OR a RWer....

Keep on spinnin'... but don't talk about the Bushies' fortune being majorly enriched on the blood of innocents.

[still_one]

21. joe kennedy was more than an isolationist

he was from the same mold as pat buchanan, they both had a problem with Jews

[rzemanfl]

4. More of a pessimist really, didn't think England could hold out

against Hitler.

[Greeby]

17. Well, we do like to confound expectations

;)

[sasha031]

5. that story has been distorted

does Hartman have a RW on now, he does at times, Kennedy was not a Nazi sympathizer

[MADem]

6. He sure was, he was a total asshole, too

Screwed around with Gloria Swanson for years, his wife knew about it, was a bootlegger....not a nice guy.

So what? He's been dead for years!

Prescott Bush held the same views. Charles Lindbergh too...and he had a secret family over there in Germany, the cheating scumball!

Don't believe the revisionist history--there was a LOT of discussion about the validity of getting into WW2 before we were actually in it, and the isolationists were very vocal.

Pearl Harbor sealed the deal.

[WI_DEM]

9. Joseph P. Kennedy was not a nice man from all I've read about him

[madrchsod]

10. i doubt that

i`ve never run across this anywhere ..he was tied into the mob thru his involvement in the running of liquor in the 20`s speculation was the mob was pissed about john and bobby going after the mob and hoffa...

[Spazito]

15. From all I have read, he was supportive of Chamberlain and

an appeaser, wanting the US to stay out of the war as opposed to being a Nazi sympathizer. He also was a bootlegger and a nasty piece of work overall.

Here is some info re his position in WWII from Wikipedia:

Appeasement
In 1938, he was appointed as the United States Ambassador to the Court of St. James's (United Kingdom). Kennedy, of Irish descent, hugely enjoyed his leadership position in London society, which stood in stark contrast to his outsider status in Boston. He rejected the warnings by Winston Churchill that Nazi Germany posed a looming threat, and supported Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement in order to stave off a second world war that would be more horrible than the first. He had to resign in September, 1940, because he disagreed with Roosevelt's policy of hostility toward Germany. Regardless, Kennedy was active in rallying Irish Democrats to Roosevelt's reelection.

While his own ambitions for the White House seemed impossible to realize, he held out great hope for his eldest son Joseph Jr. to gain the presidency. However, Joe Jr. was killed undertaking a high-risk bombing raid over Germany. Kennedy then turned his attention to grooming the second son, John F. Kennedy, who indeed won the 1960 elections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy,_Sr.#Public_service

Interesting, as well, that Joseph Kennedy was a major supporter of Joseph McCarthy and contributed thousands of dollars to his campaigns.

His children have gone down a different path than their father in their beliefs and commitment to public service and are to be commended, imo.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Wasn't Bobby an aide to Tailgunner Joe in his early career?

[Spazito]

26. Yes, his father was responsible for Bobby being hired by McCarthy

McCarthy's Support from the Kennedy Family
Joseph McCarthy after 1950 was the nation's most prominent Irish-American along with the Kennedy family. Even before he became famous, McCarthy became close friends with Joseph P. Kennedy, who contributed thousands of dollars to McCarthy, and became one of his major supporters. Joseph Kennedy often brought him to Hyannis Port as a weekend house guest in the late 1940s. McCarthy at one point dated Patricia Kennedy. In the Senate race of 1952, Joseph apparently worked a deal so that McCarthy, a Republican, would not make campaign speeches for the GOP ticket in Massachusetts. In return, Congressman John F. Kennedy, running for the Senate seat, would not give any anti-McCarthy speeches that his liberal supporters wanted to hear. In 1953 at Joe's urging McCarthy hired Robert Kennedy (age 27) as a senior staff member. In 1954 when the Senate was threatening to condemn McCarthy, Senator John Kennedy faced a dilemma. "How could I demand that Joe McCarthy be censured for things he did when my own brother was on his staff?" asked JFK. By 1954, however, Robert Kennedy and McCarthy's chief aide, Roy Cohn, had had a falling out and Robert no longer worked for McCarthy. John Kennedy had a speech drafted calling for the censure of McCarthy but he never delivered it. When the Senate voted to censure McCarthy on December 2, 1954, Senator Kennedy was in the hospital and never indicated then or later how he would vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kennedy

[H2O Man]

36. Right.

It was brief. The family never turned on the mad Irishman, even when Joe was a pathetic figure, who had lost his last grasps of sanity to alcohol. Tim Russert recently spoke of in the early days of Meet The Press, when Joe showed up packing iron. The hosts were a tad bit nervous.

[bobbieinok]

34. remember--Wikipedia written by online people; you too can write

entries for them

there's been a big flap going on about congressional staffers changing entries, more positive for their guy/gal, more negative for challenger

I believe there are/were entries about historical events, people, etc that are/were partisan, modifed by pro and/or con people

IMO, Wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything even mildly controversial

[Spazito]

37. From the books and articles I have read about Joseph Kennedy,

JFK and Bobby Kennedy, what is in wikipedia is also reflected in those books. I only used the wikipedia reference because it did reflect what I had read in other books, articles and was easily accessible.

I don't see how the actions and beliefs of Joseph Kennedy mean anything other than to be historically interesting, especially as his children did not adopt those beliefs and have patterned their work and public service much differently and have served very well, imo.

After giving your post some thought, I felt I should be a little more diligent than simply posting the easiest link so I have found this as well, from Amazon, a review of a book entitled The Kennedys at War by Edward J Renehan, Jr. The review is by Publishers Weekly:

Veteran biographer and historian Renehan (The Lion's Pride, etc.) presents a well-written, well-researched account of the Kennedys in the years leading up to and during WWII. Renehan begins with the ambitious patriarch, Joseph Kennedy, Sr., his ambiguous relationship with President Franklin Roosevelt and his disastrous turn as ambassador to Great Britain. Kennedy's fervent isolationist views, combined with both anti-Semitic and pro-fascist leanings, made him an ardent supporter of Neville Chamberlain's disastrously failed policy of appeasement. Not long after WWII broke out, the ambassador resigned, to FDR's relief.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/038550165X/103-2185298-1371818?v=glance&n=283155

[still_one]

16. hartman is correct

joe kennedy also was anti-Jewish

His sons were NOT of the same mold

[CatWoman]

23. Joe Kennedy was also anti Black

he had problems with Peter Lawford for being friendly to black people.

[still_one]

28. correct

[H2O Man]

41. He also liked

Gen. Al Haig early in life. I think that was him.

[CatWoman]

45. smart ass!!!

how dare you sneak up on me!!!

:hi:

[devilgrrl]

18. Yeah, he said it...

:eyes:

Gotta love the rightwing urge to just make shit up!

[tn-guy]

19. sympathizer is a bit strong

Joseph Kennedy did, while serving as Ambassador to the Court of St. James, advocate to FDR that the US should abandon England. Whether that position was due to: 1) a belief that Germany was destined to win WWII and we should back the winner, 2) Irish-American antipathy to England, or 3) sympathy for Nazi Germany which existed among many in the pre-WWII years is open to interpretation.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

20. In the beginning folks didn't

know what Hitler was about. The British Royal Family was chummy with him early on, as well. When it became apparent he was a lunatic, they all backed away.

[loudsue]

58. Just as they've tried to back away from the lunatic running the USA

Our own commander-in-chimp has turned off a host of foreign leaders. They laugh at him....and are sickened by him.

:kick::kick::kick:

[cali]

22. So what?

We don't choose our parents. Joe Kennedy was a revolting guy. Good arguments have been made that he was a Nazi sympathizer. It still doesn't mean much.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. Yes, but did he make any money at it?

I'm just sayin...

[Minnesota Libra]

29. MANY people were Nazi sympathizers during WWII and......

....I'll bet it would surprise people how many are still secretly believe in the Nazi ideals.

[robcon]

30. More than a sympathizer.

He predicted the end of democracies, and the rise of dictatorships like Hitler.

[mdmc]

31. and w.

:shrug: Is he nostodomus?:kick:

[Old and In the Way]

32. Did they mention that he had a son who died on a secret mission

flying a mission into Germany....or had another son who almost died fighting that Japanese in the Pacific? Whatever Joe Kennedy did in his life, I think his children, for the most part, did and are doing great service for this country. I can think of any family that had such great wealth whose children gave so much for this country.

[David Zephyr]

44. Thanks, Old and in the Way.

:thumbsup: (See my post #43)

[Marie26]

33. Yep.

If I recall, he supported Joe McCarthy as well.

[Synnical]

35. Prescott Bush (Shrub's Grandfather) aided and abetted the Nazi's

And the bank he owned shares in was seized under the Trading with the Enemies Act in 1942.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/com-buchanan.html

Sympathizing vs. aiding and abetting are two different things.

Many people in the 1920's and 30's sympathized with the communists nee socialists. They had to deal with McCarthy in the 50's, and they were black listed, forced out of their jobs, unable to earn a living.

So, STFU (that's not a response to the OP), about sympathizing, and let's deal with facts.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Oh yeah. Joseph Kennedy was a real beaut.

Total power-hungry nutjob.

[Octafish]

39. Joseph Kennedy Sr. saw what World War I did to humanity.

He didn't want to see his sons become cannon fodder for the, um, elite.

His son, Joseph Jr., was killed flying a modified B-24 on a mission to knock out the V-2 sites in NAZI occupied France.

His son, John, was almost killed when a Japanese destroyer rammed his PT-109.

I bet Hartman's guest didn't bring either up.

[no_hypocrisy]

40. Kennedy told a reporter that he believed democracy was

finished in Britain and maybe in the U.S.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kennedys/filmmore/ps_globe.html

I'm not sure one can extrapolate that opinion into a fact that he was a Nazi sympathizer. However, the statement does reflect that he was ambivalent which team he would play on in the future.

[David Zephyr]

43. What a horrible thread this is that is beneath the DU.

FDR may never had been president if Joseph Kennedy hadn't supported him financially and politically. Kennedy's wariness about the U.S. entering the war hardly makes him a "Nazi sympathizer".

Have we fallen to Kennedy bashing now here at the DU?

Bobby Kennedy gave his life in service to our nation. He was and always will be my hero.

John Kennedy was one of the greatest Presidents our nation has ever had.

Ted Kennedy is the shining star in the U.S. Senate who opposed the Iraqi War Resolution, who fearlessly had challenged this Administration when most other Democrats cowered. Ted Kennedy has been a loyal champion for women's rights, racial equality and fairness, for the civil rights of gay and lesbian Americans, for the disabled, for peace, for the environment and for social justice.

Eunice Kennedy Shriver started the Special Olympics that has become the inspiration to billions around the world. Her husband founded the Peace Corps.

Joseph and Rose Kennedy and their children may not be saints, but if the DU is now a haven for Kennedy Bashers then maybe it's outgrown me.

I cherish the sacrifices and the service that this family has given to our nation.

[The Onyx Key]

46. NO ONE could EVER doubt the fantastic contribution that the

"Kennedy Boys" (John F. and Robert) have made to the country, but I'm afraid father Joe is a different story...

[XOKCowboy]

50. Who bashed Ted, JFK, RFK, Eunice Shrver, etc?

Ol' Joe really wasn't a very nice guy. It's how he got rich and powerful. This thread is about him, not his progeny. Lighten up a little OK?

[Spazito]

56. I don't see how discussing the historical facts of Joseph P Kennedy

in ANY way reflects upon the sacrifices and services of his children. It has been pointed out in many posts that his children did NOT follow him in his beliefs or activities and have served their country well.

If anything, the very obvious difference between Joseph Kennedy's beliefs and actions and those of his children gains them even greater respect, imo.

[applegrove]

47. You have to remember that Churchill was outside the box in his

fear of Hitler. There always are a few casandra's and a mob who don't really want to know. The victims of fascism certainly know - the scapegoats first. A few depressives or empathetics second. And sometimes it is a lack of trust or bad relationship that allows some to see more clearly. Canadian and British boys were overseas for 4 years fighting Germany in WWI - and they all remembered that. The USA - not so much. So corporate players looked at Hitler and thought - man he is making things happen. They were not the types to read up on social issues around the world. Even the sociologists got it wrong at times. With early Hitler. People have a hard time discerning the truth with an expert liar & fabricator. Takes a bit to realize such people are making up rules that are not human in any way. And all about them and their needs.

[Me.]

48. Lest We Forget Rove's Grandfather, Roverer

“George Walker, GW's great-grandfather, also set up the takeover of the Hamburg-America Line, a cover for I.G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the United States. In Germany, I.G. Farben was most famous for putting the gas in gas chambers; it was the producer of Zyklon B and other gasses used on victims of the Holocaust. The Bush family was not unaware of the nature of their investment partners. They hired Allen Dulles, the future head of the CIA, to hide the funds they were making from Nazi investments and the funds they were sending to Nazi Germany, rather than divest. It was only in 1942, when the government seized Union Banking Company assets under the Trading With The Enemy Act, that George Walker and Prescott Bush stopped pumping money into Hitler's regime.” Cont…

“Rove's grandfather was Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Statthalter---Nazi State Party Chairman---for his region. He was also a partner and senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. engineering firm, which built the Birkenau death camp, at which tens of thousands of Jews, Gypsies, dissidents and other were slaughtered en masse.”

http://inspectorlohmann.blogspot.com/2004/11/weaving-fabric-of-leadership.html

And this familiar source:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3743890

[XOKCowboy]

51. That was interesting about KKKarl's parentage

I didn't know it but am certainly not surprised. I always wondered where he got rich also. Guess this helps answer that question.

[Katherine Brengle]

49. Um, there are a lot of overlooked facts of US Politics at that point--

in history.

Our government had no problem with fascism in general in the 1930s. The world was far more worried about communism, as fascism was very friendly to our business interests.

There is no excuse for ignorance or collaboration, but there is much to be learned from looking at the history of the time objectively.

(BTW, I am not listening to Thom, so I have no idea what the guest said.)

[f-bush]

52. Ted Kennedy's father was also a repuke sympathizer and

sleazeball who amassed his riches off of the misfortunes of others. Me, IMHO I greatly admire Bobby, am so appreciated of Ted and sorrow in the promise of what might have been with Jack, but his father has always seemed to be a pompous, pendantical turd!

[stepnw1f]

53. Oh My Goodness What Have I Done?

Kidding... I didn't know much about his dad.

All I have to say is that I'm proud of Ted Kennedy, and very appreciative that he is my Representative.

[BushOut06]

55. As well as you should - why should we judge people based on their parents?

Regardless of whether Joe Kennedy was a Nazi sympathizer or not, what does that have to do with today's world? Hell, Robert Byrd used to be a prominent figure in the KKK a long time ago - but he has since repudiated those views. Going back to the past is a favorite GOP tactic to try to divert attention to their fuck-ups today.

[BushOut06]

54. Lots of Americans were Nazi sympathizers

Charles Lindbergh, Henry Ford, lots of famous people. This was before anyone really knew about the "final solution" and the Holocaust.

[Bridget Burke]

59. Joe was not so much a sympathizer as an appeaser.

Yes, history has shown that was the wrong approach to Hitler. But the previous War almost destroyed Europe--then was shown to be based on lies. ("The Huns are bayoneting Belgian babies!")

And perhaps he didn't want his sons to die for Old England. One did, anyway.

Old Joe was a bastard in many ways. But was not associated with Nazi Germany as the elder Bushes were. Of course, they were probably not sympathizers, either. They were just in it for the money.