McDonald's KOSHER?

[serryjw]

My DU Jewish friends, How is this possible? Kosher meat is too expensive to be at Mc D's and IF it is in a kitchen with non kosher( food& cooking pots) what is the point? Is this like being partially pregnant?

quote.....
TEL AVIV (Reuters) - Under pressure from the city's chief rabbi, two Tel Aviv branches of the fast food firm McDonald's have changed the color of their trademark signs to assure diners that their burgers and fries are kosher.
snip...
All meat served at McDonald's branches in Israel is already kosher. But most of the more than 111 outlets serve dairy and meat items together and are open on the Jewish Sabbath and religious holidays, which is forbidden under Jewish law.

Only 12 branches are considered strictly kosher, where the menu does not include dairy products and the food is prepared to meet religious standards. Those 12 outlets are closed on the Jewish Sabbath and holidays.
end quote......
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060302/od_nm/israel_mcdonalds_dc;_ylt=AtjFWQbBLOI.nhmZEY2cC74SH9EA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

[benburch]

1. I don't think they serve bacon cheeseburgers there... nt

[Behind the Aegis]

3. A cheeseburger would be non-kosher, even w/o the bacon.

[benburch]

12. Right!

But a bacon cheeseburger would be doubly non-kosher. And thats the point.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Hmmm...

Let me take a whack at this (we do have a few Israelis as members, so, hopefully, they will chime in, as well.

You are not an Israeli, nor am I, so we really can't speak to the price of kosher meat in Israel. My guess is it is probably cheaper than the US (save a few large Jewish areas). Also, I am not sure what beef prices are, overall, in Israel.

Now, on to the conumdrum...food can still be kosher, as long as milk and meat do not mix. They can be prepared in the same kitchen. However, in the strictest of senses, they could not be prepared on the same surfaces, cooked in the same place, or be touched by the same utensils. The establishments' being open on the Sabbath and Jewish holidays, does not make the food non-kosher, unless that is an Orthodox rule I don't know, which is possible since I was raised conservative.

Therefore, in 12 branches, you can't even get a cheeseburger; however, in the other branches that is possible (I assume). So, the preparations may be kosher, but the end result, a cheeseburger, is not. There may be parts of the kitchen where non-kosher preparations occur (a microwave, special grill). However, it still stands to reason, if the employee follows the rules (and I can only imagine there would be PLENTY) then it is possible to go into one of the Micky D's (not the 12 fleisch ones) and still get a kosher meal by choice.

That is what I am thinking. Maybe others can offer up their opinions, especially the Israelis on board.

[Hekate]

5. The whole point of the 12 stores is to be strictly, totally, kosher

...for the benefit of very Orthodox Jews. No cheese, no milkshakes, no cream in the coffee. That's the basics.

Just expanding on what Aegis said, and speaking in general: Meat that has been butchered in a kosher manner is obviously the other sine qua non for such an establishment -- but (very importantly) if the meat is then prepared in a non-kosher manner, it becomes non-kosher and must not be eaten by the Orthodox.

Eating a meal in a non-kosher restaurant (or in a non-kosher home, for that matter) is a matter of making an ethical compromise. For the very Orthodox, it really can't be done -- because of the belief that diet comes under the heading of God's Laws.

However most Jews today are not Orthodox, and make a variety of accomodations in order to live in the world.

My first college room mate was raised Conservative -- but at dinner in a family friend's home I watched her chow down on a baked potato with sour cream, then casually take her plate to the sink, give it a quick rinse, and return for the roast beef. As for the hamburgers we ate at the local coffee shop, she said she knew very well that cheeseburgers were prepared on the same grill as the plain burgers she ate. In the apartment we shared the rule was only that I wasn't to use her dishes for treyfe (pork, shellfish, etc.).

In my adult life I have known Jews who became vegetarian largely to avoid dealing with the complexities of Jewish dietary laws while living in the world at large. Others simply make the best menu selections they can when in restaurants, like my old friend did.

I studied a lot before marrying my husband, but finally concluded that conversion was not for me because I'd have to swear to keep a lifestyle my husband doesn't live himself. (Twenty-something years later he's pretty much a Buddhist, so there you have it. See also my screen-name.) Nonetheless because of my husband I've had ample opportunity to observe how other people manage.

Israel is largely secular, which is why American-style McDonald's can make it there. But the Orthodox have a special, key place in society, so making it possible for them to be customers as well is a smart move. As a character in one of Faye Kellerman's novels once said, "It's not hard. It's just rules you follow."

Hekate

[serryjw]

14. I just find it amusing

You can be kosher and not be orthodox. I know that people make real world compromises. A lifelong girlfriend had New Years celebration at her house 30 years ago and served LOBSTER on PAPER plates. She would not enter her kitchen again until it was made Kosher on 1/2. She kept 2 sets of dishes but used paper plates when she served trafe.
I find it hard to believe that McD's is being so disciplined not to mix meat with trafe.

[REP]

6. Many 'Cultural' Jews Aren't Observant

The McDs that serve treyfe (well, technically, they all serve filth) are probably catering to Reform, non-observant and non-Jews (no, I'm not being redundant).

[Behind the Aegis]

7. explain...

..."are probably catering to Reform, non-observant and non-Jews (no, I'm not being redundant)."

Are you saying Reform Jews are non-Jews?

[REP]

8. It's a Joke Reform Jews Tell

At least, the one that raised me did.

Long version:

A devout young Orthodox man goes out into the world in October and hears about Halloween, and goes to his Rabbi and says, "Every day I pray the shaharith, the minhah and the maarib, but tell me, what is this Halloween?" The Rabbi tells him, "I do not know; ask the Conservative rabbi."

So the young man goes to to the Conservative rabbi and says, "Every day I pray the shaharith, the minhah and the maarib, but tell me, what is this Halloween?" The Conservative rabbi tells him, " I do not know; ask the Reform rabbi."

So the young man goes to the Reform rabbi and says, "Every day I pray the shaharith, the minhah and the maarib, but tell me, what is this Halloween?" The Reform rabbi says, "Sure, I can tell you about Halloween, but first, what is this shaharith, minhah and maarib?"

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Thanks,

...not being raised Reform, I was not aware of that joke. As I can appreciate Jewish humor, sometimes, it can be confusing. :)

[REP]

10. See Edit for Long Version

You may like it better :hi:

[Behind the Aegis]

11. LOL!

That was funny (edit)!

[longship]

4. No hamburger... Cheeseburger.

No fries... Cheeps.

Cheeseburgers? Kosher???? Plus, I'll bet that McGaggles doesn't keep their meat separate from their dairy products, either.

McGaggles kosher... Don't make me laugh.

[jmowreader]

13. It's possible. Not likely in the US, but possible.

There are McDonalds in India--you know, where most of the people don't eat beef. They just serve different things.

A kosher McDonalds is doable...kosher meats, kosher breads, no dairy anywhere in the building, no leavening (or just close) during Passover...there is enough room in the US for maybe one kosher McDonalds in a Jewish neighborhood in NYC because of the small number of Americans who keep kosher, but in Israel? I bet a lot of people go there.

[Hekate]

15. Sure it's doable -- and, in the community, also enforceable...

...because trained rabbis have to certify the restaurant just about daily. It all goes to motivation -- do you want those customers, or not? Your employees comply -- or they aren't your employees any more, while you throw out all the food they contaminated. Your employees' ethnicity doesn't matter, just their willingness to do it your way.

As you noted, in major US cities there is enough of an Orthodox community to make specialty restaurants desirable. My husband says (and various writers note) that there are certified kosher Chinese restaurants in New York City.

Where we live, not so much (as Jon Stewart would say). I think there's one deli -- one. We have Conservative and neo-Orthodox friends who will drive the hundred miles to Los Angeles in order to buy their beef and chicken and bring it home in a cooler.

Hekate