And in the "Water is wet" category, a study finds more violence in

[Strong Atheist]

cartoons. Make of that what you will. Personally, I watched a lot of cartoons when I was young, and it did not turn me into a mass murder OR a serial killer, so I have always been suspicious of those that argue that cartoons cause violence ...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/02/entertainment/main1364838.shtml

[Roland99]

1. I didn't care much for the anvil on Wile E. Coyote's head but...

seeing Yosemite Sam getting blown up, dropped off a high dive, or blown out of a cannon had me in tears!


:D

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

4. OMG, that's freaky...we both posted about anvils at the same time.

:scared:

[Roland99]

15. Freak-eee

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

2. Bugs Bunny...Tom & Jerry didn't make me drop anvils on other's heads

Although, clearly there are plenty in this country who could use a good anvil dropping.

[Strong Atheist]

3. ROFLMAO! Good one! nt.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Hmmm! Anvil Dropping. Now That's A Grand Idea!

The Professor

[VelmaD]

5. Ok, so cartoons didn't turn me into a mass murderer, but...

do you think that maybe the steady diet of violence we all get from tvs and movies maybe increases the threshhold level real-world violence has to reach before it impacts us, upsets us, gets us as a society to DO something to stop it? I'm just asking.

[SteppingRazor]

8. I think that's a chicken v. egg argument...

Does TV and movie violence lead to more violence in real life?

Or does real-life violence inspire TV and movie writers?

Personally, I think the indiscriminate maiming of tens of thousands of Iraqis desensitizes us to violence far more than any Schwarzenegger movie ever could

[Orrex]

10. Exactly Correct, IMO

In Moore's Bowling For Columbine, Marilyn Manson is asked about his purportedly negative influence upon impressionable teens. Manson replies that the President's actions, one hopes, carry more influence than do a rock-n-roller's.

However, it's more politically palatable to condemn an artist or a comic strip than to condemn a politican or an entire foreign policy doctrine.

Then as now.

[VelmaD]

13. I never said anything about violence on tv...

leading people to commit violence in real life. My basic belief on the subject is this. There are two basic reactions a person can have to witnessing an act of violence...it either horrifies you or you disassociate your emotions from it to cope. I figure there's only so much "horrifying" that the human soul/psyche can take before you disassociate in self-defense. I think both individuals and societies can have their ability to be horrified over-loaded from too much violence. I think that's a big part of what's wrong with the entir eplanet...after the horrors we have inflicted on each other in the last 100 years - mustard gas, block buster bombs, death marches, nuclear weapons, concentration camps, the Holocaust - I worry that our collective ability to be horrified has been overwhelmed...we've seen so much that it's hard to do something so bad that it makes an impact.

[SteppingRazor]

Maybe I'm just going completely insane. Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

You said: "do you think that maybe the steady diet of violence we all get from tvs and movies maybe increases the threshhold level real-world violence has to reach before it impacts us, upsets us, gets us as a society to DO something to stop it?"

And now you've said "I never said anything about violence on tv"


Um... huh?


You've really confused me here, because it appears you most certainly did say something about violence on TV, and have now moved on to a different, but related subject. In any case, I like the new subject better, so no biggie.

I agree that the level of violence in our society may have resulted in a desensitization to violence. Where I'm not sure, though, is the immediate assumption that disassociation to violence is somehow a worser or lesser reaction than horror. I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you, I'm just not sure that you're right.

[VelmaD]

17. Go back and re-read my first sentence...

in it's entirety...past the ellipses in the headline. It reads "I didn't say anything about violence on tv leading people to commit violence in real life".

If you're going to quote me...at least use the entire quote.

[SteppingRazor]

18. Whatever. It's silly for us to argue semantics when we more or less agree.

on the principles involved here. :toast:

[VelmaD]

19. I'll call a truce then

:toast:

I'm all het up right now about so many things that are going on, it was actually nice to dive into this thread. It's not that I'm not het up about the ever-increasing level of violence in the world...it's just that it's a topic I can usually talk about (at least with other Democrats) without wanting to bang my head into a wall afterwards. :)

If there's nothing else we can all agree on we can usually agree that violence...is a bad thing. :)

[SteppingRazor]

20. A bad, but very entertaining, thing

:evilgrin:

[VelmaD]

21. Bad bad bad liberal

:spank:

*snort*

[SteppingRazor]

22. My god... even the smilies are violent!

:rofl:

[VelmaD]

23. I know...I perpetuated the prevailing paradigm on you...

I've probably warped you for life. ;)

[porphyrian]

6. This is just more pro-censorship horseshit.

Frankly, I think worrying about violence in cartoons, given the violence everywhere else, is not only absurd, it's offensive. If you really want to protect children, end poverty and give them free health care. Otherwise, these "researchers" should just shut the fuck up.

[MadMaddie]

7. I guess Elmer Fud directly impacted Cheney to shoot his

friend Whittington in the face!

Where's da wabbit? Where's da wabbit? Where's da wabbit?

[Strong Atheist]

16. Lol! Another good one! nt.

[Bandit]

9. The blood didn't splatter like Itchy and Scratchy with Tom & Jerry

Violence leads to more violence. You hit your child and he/she will hit their child.:shrug: Argue all you wish but many studies have been done on this subject and they all come to that same conclusion. Kids that watch violent programming are many times more likely to exhibit violent behavior.

[Orrex]

11. Problem with that argument

Kids that watch violent programming are many times more likely to exhibit violent behavior.

The "many times" disclaimer takes all the wind out of your rhetorical sails because it's too nebulous and non-specific to be helpful. Care to clarify what "many times" means in this context?

Also there are literally countless other stressors on children beyond cartoons. It is extremely difficult to isolate cartoon violence and identify it as the main culprit.

Your own example of hitting a child who grows up to hit his/her own child shows that other factors affect children's tendency toward or away from violence.

Art, in whatever form, is just a convenient (and politically expedient) scapegoat.

Heck, I would even argue that the blood in Itchy & Scratchy reduces its ability to desensitize kids to violence, because the cat always dies, whereas Tom and Jerry seldom did (and if they did, then their "souls" were invariably shown going to some reward). At least the blood and death show that there are consequences to dropping someone into a thresher.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Hear hear.

I think the hidden influence of cartoon-maddened children is the abandonment issue of their prime interaction being with a television rather than their parents.

I submit, with as much evidence as the censorship groups provide, that those kids who are violent are those who are raised without healthy interpersonal interactions. Kids from healthy families who watch cartoons, wind up healthy. Kids from dysfunctional families who do or do not watch cartoons, wind up dysfunctional.

I have no memories of before I was 4 years old. But I know that by the time I was five, I knew that a cartoon was a cartoon, not reality. (OK, the fact that it was black and white might have had a little to do with it).

I was even able to figure out that pro wresting was fake by seeing the same wrestlers, week after week, getting the crap beat out of them but they kept coming back the next week with no black eyes, no broken noses, no split lips.

Kids' behavior stems not from what they watch, but from the way they are treated.

[Bandit]

24. Your post is the perfect example of why I love DU

Rational debate on most subjects. You did not agree with my assessment and yet did not call me names or belittle me as a person, only my argument. Bravo. I do believe that violence does lead to more violence though and I doubt you will be able to dissuade me otherwise but violent cartoons have been around forever and I also grew up with them and am able to control my violent urges. I don't know the answers but I do know America is a very violent bation.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. Your Last Statement Is Valid and Correct

But, i'm not really sure that america is the root of being a violent nation. I think that people are violent by nature and, fortunately, most of us do our best to subdue those instincts. Unfortunately, when those who can't reach levels of political importance, and they have the levers of the strongest military in the world in their hands, it makes all of us look bad.
The Professor

[Orrex]

28. Sometimes I can be a grown-up

Thanks for the kind words--respectful debate is a valuable tool sharing knowledge.

And whether or not I disagree with you, name-calling would hardly help my argument!

I do know America is a very violent bation.

Heck, I would argue that America is a master bation!

(Everybody loves a typo!)

:hi:

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Many Times?

A multiple? Not some statistically significant increase, but MANY times! I'd love to see that dataset.
The Professor

[Mythsaje]

12. Oh, yes...

It's SO obvious that humans were completely peaceful creatures before the invention of Mass Media. We fought no wars, had no murders, and never, ever, considered public executions a form of family entertainment.

:sarcasm: