Missoula AAR Station Off-Air - Great Ratings, Worried Advertisers

[otohara]

Sorry if this was posted - it's dated 2/28

Getting people to listen wasn’t the problem – liberal talk radio was a huge hit in Missoula from the beginning.

Just last fall, Cowan said, an Eastlan ratings survey in Missoula and the Bitterroot showed the Al Franken show with a respectable 3.6 percent of listeners – ahead of Rush Limbaugh, who runs on two area stations.

“Al Franken was huge,�? Cowan said. “(He) clobbered Rush. The listeners were there – and the commercials were inexpensive.�?

However, selling ads during Al’s airtime was a different story.

Cowan said that local businesses were reluctant to commit to the alternative programming.

"There seems to be concern from advertisers with being associated" with controversial programming, he said. "I didn't think that would be a problem in Missoula of all places."

KNS Sales Manager Jim Fisher agreed that business owners were shying away from the format – even if they were avid listeners to the station.

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/topic/article/6640/C70/L37

"A lot of them loved to listen, but they didn't want to put their name on it," Fisher said.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

1. Chickenshits.

Something like this happened in Phoenix this week, as well. NOT a good trend . . .

[Toots]

18. I would call them prudent, not chicken shit

I myself never ever mix business and politics. You are bound to piss off a large portion of potential customers. I know myself I will not do business with an openly Republican business so I would expect the same if my business were openly political. Granted just advertising on a radio station should not be grounds for boycotts but I won't buy anything from anyone that advertises on Rush or Hannity or O'Really. I can't say I blame them for their caution. Air America should be sponsored by the DNC and like organizations and we can support them anonymously. just my $.02 worth anyway.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

19. good idea about DNC support.

As for chickenshit vs. prudent . . .

. . . guess we'll both have to call 'em as we see 'em. Everywhere I turn I see sycophancy. It makes me sick. I rant.

[Strelnikov_]

21. Agree. Many Advertisers Are Simply Taking The 'NPR' Approach

Nothing controversial that could cost a customer.

I also agree about a different funding model.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=568838&mesg_id=569931

[rodeodance]

2. what a a bunch of whissies! (ad advertizers).

[bigdarryl]

3. AAR off air

Thats not good

[CottonBear]

4. Then AAR listeners should boycott their stores and businesses.

Has Bushco so intimidated the average American that business people won;t advertise on anything but RW hate radio?

[napi21]

29. I don't mean to sound like a PIA, but how can you boycott a store

when you don't know who they are?

The article said businesses were hesitant to pay for ads on Frankin's air time. How would people know who they were?

[CottonBear]

34. Good point. I posted before thinking.

Maybe, we Democrats need to speak to our local merchants and business owneers and let them know it's OK to advertise on AAR. Just a thought.
:hi: Maybe you can come to our planned springtime Athens, AG DU meetup! :)

[otohara]

5. Follow-Up - Republican CEO of Station Responds to Angry Listeners

Radio CEO Responds to Angry Missoula Listeners
By Dana Green, 3-02-06

In the wake of the abrupt disappearance of progressive talk radio on Missoula’s local KNS station, New West rang up Simmons Media CEO Dave Simmons Thursday to find out why.

Just one month ago, the Salt Lake City-based company took over operations of three Missoula stations: KNS 105.9, The Trail, and an adult contemporary station. Only a few weeks later, Air America Radio, a national liberal radio network, and local commentary went off the air earlier this week, switching to a traditional music format.

After leaving a message with his assistant, Simmons called us back promptly, leaving a message urging us to call him back.

Simmons, a Republican Party supporter who has donated thousands of dollars to Pres. George Bush and local politicians, vehemently denied the decision had anything to do with his political leanings. Affable and direct, he said the move was strictly business.

snip

“I would advise everyone to go to satellite radio,” he said. “If you want to say ‘screw you’ to corporate radio, that’s your best move.”

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/main/article/6681/

[don954]

7. this happened to one of Ed Shultz stations too

a xian group got together and bought out the station he was on after he took the station to #1 in market in Phonex. I think we are seeing a new strategy, they cant beat us in the message so they are buying our stations out and silencing us...

[SoCalDem]

11. Not NEW at all.. THAT's HOW they got dominance in the first place

During those laid-back decades, while everyone else was not paying much attention, small stations all over the country were being bought up for a pittance...

The best way to shut up an opponent is to "own" them....radio station saying stuff you don;t like?? BUY them and then fire them.:(

They did it over and over and over...but not so much for what was being said THEN..but for what THEY planned to say later..

It's not accidental that they all seem to be rightwing-ish...The setup of the think tanks, the conglomerated media, the concentration of the newspapers.. IT WAS ALL PLANNED THAT WAY..


When Prince Pissypants appeared bulletproof, and AAR came along, it seemed like a good business plan to "allow" them a small entry back into radio, BUT they ARE making a difference and there's an election coming...

I don;t find it surprising at ALL that they are being edged back out..

[Gloria]

35. Last year the FCC put over 200 FM stations up for sale...and

I posted several time about how AAR should start buying some, esp. in Red States before the freaks got them...

Instead, AAR winds up on Clear Channel and on stations bought by freaks.

[librechik]

14. yeah, and we know Republicans lie, so you don't shock us, Dave

however, if any businessman ignores a legitimate profit to do something inexplicable and that something screws a democrat, then I say you did it for reasons other than business. Stop pissing on my shoes and saying it's raining.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Well gee

let's see here: a republican who has given money to Bush and he claims politics didn't have a say? LOL! Yeah, right.

[don954]

6. sorry, but that excuse dosnt cut it

they have ears, and if their sales people cant sell them, then get a new sales dept and a new sales manager! If they couldn't sell a show with more % than the competition, then its their fault not the product's (the show's) fault.

[hfojvt]

8. that makes a certain amount of sense

unfortunately
3.6% of listeners may clobber Rush, but the state (Montana) is still 60%+ Republican, and even the Dems there are probably on the conservative side. Thus, advertising on Limbaugh might not be as effective, but it is also unlikely to anger a majority of your customers.

[FSogol]

9. So now we should boycott all the companies that didn't advertise?

:crazy:

[OnionPatch]

10. I heard this same story

from our local AAR station. The manager told me that he had a hard time getting advertisers to buy slots on the liberal shows.

This angers me to no end....How on Earth can they think it's ok to advertise on Limbaugh's show but not on liberal radio?

Say what you like, I've had it with this kind of hypocrisy and if I knew who it was that turned down the slots, yes, I WOULD boycott them if they had bought time on Rush's show or any other right wing show.

[SoCalDem]

12. PERCEPTION TRUMPS REALITY

Republicans are perceived to be the ones with the MONEY, so advertisers listen to people who call in and complain about "liberal talk".. Democrats have money too, but the media has portrayed us as "poor folks"..

[Zinfandel]

13. A different opinion is "alternative programming"? What about balance?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

15. I wonder about advertisers too--here in Dallas it seems like half the ads

are McGruff the crime dog or the freaking government ad for child safety seats. It makes me wonder whether it's the same damn thing--advertisers AFRAID to "anger" the RW idiots. Shit, they're not going to listen to the damn station anyway!

[MasonJar]

16. Then get in touch with Rush's sponsors and let them know the

boycott is on. Then get together and start one.

[hang a left]

17. good idea!!

I never listen, who advertises?

[Strelnikov_]

20. Commercial Progressive/Liberal Radio Is Not Viable

There is a ready market of over 40% of the populace in even the reddest of areas that are not currently served by political talk radio. What every business model requires, a ready-made market.

Problem is, the money boys (advertisers, station owners) are from the other side of the political divide, and most apparently would prefer to lose money.

So much for the free market.

Instead of trying to ‘fight the last war’, that is, model progressive talk radio after Reich-Wing radio, a different (and not really innovative), approach is needed.

This approach is . . . . the NPR model.

In larger, left leaning cities, commercial Progressive radio will be viable due to the critical mass of advertisers. In smaller, or redder, markets, where a critical mass of advertisers are prejudiced, funding would come from the ‘Corporation For Progressive Radio’ to offset losses.

As Liberals/Progressives, we would need to donate $100/200 a year to the corporation (I used to donate this much to NPR). If 1/6 of Kerry voters donated $100/yr., $1 B a year could be raised.

My belief is that until those in the Red areas (Phoenix, Missoula, Atlanta, etc. etc.) are provided access to an alternative to Reich-Wing propaganda radio, Progressive politicians will make limited inroads. Some discount the effect of Reich-Wing propaganda radio on the political shift, and dumping down, of the electorate, particularly the ‘working class’. I do not. Radio is low cost (for the consumer), convenient, and pervasive among the ‘working class’.

One other change is that the on-air ‘personalities’ would need to accept that they are part of a movement, and park their ego, and need for $1 M/yr paychecks, at the door.

[KittyWampus]

27. Yes, though I remember many DU'ers spouting off when AAR asked for donatio

donations etc.

[CottonBear]

33. Atlanta is a blue city. AAR is looking to purchase another station there

(to replce the curretn low power Am station) that will have more broadcast range. This is per my husband's conversation with Mike Malloy last Saturday. That said, in the hinterlands of Georgia (outside of our blue cities) the potential advertisers have been whipped by RW propaganda. I'm not sure what the solution is. :(

edit: sp. & clarity

[Rosco T.]

40. AAR is trying that and got reamed over the coals...

.. but I agree with you.

[Clark2008]

42. Phoenix, Missoula and Atlanta aren't "red" areas - they're

blue cities in red states.

But, I agree with the rest of your post.

Just making clear, once again, that no state is completely blue or red. The urban areas are generally blue and and rural areas are generally red, as a rule.

[Strelnikov_]

46. What About The Suburbs?

First, when I reference a ‘Red’ city, the intent is to indicate areas the vote majority Reich-Wing, and ‘Blue’ areas vote majority Moderate/Progressive.

Second, when I reference a City, the intent is to reference the ‘Metro Area’, which I consider stretches out to 50 mi. in most cases.

My experience with all cities, and particularly ‘Red’ cities (St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Des Moines, Albuerque), is that the older/university neighborhoods are ‘Blue’, surrounded by ‘Red’ suburbs which are the enclaves of the middle and ‘working’ classes. That is, the part of the electorate that has been consistently voting against their best interest.

Therefore, the primary strategy would be to ‘serve’ these areas. The ‘Blue’ would provide a critical mass of funds, with the CPB providing funds to keep the enterprise ‘just in the black’.

A secondary strategy would be a salient into smaller markets with larger universities (Columbia, MO, Springfield,. MO, Iowa City/Cedar Rapids, IA, Fort Collins, CO) and therefore a younger demographic. The dynamic in these smaller cities would be similar to the larger cities, with the relatively large progressive base proving the revenue to operate nearly self-sufficient.

A third, and probably most important, strategy, will be an air-drops into (typically ‘Red’) smaller cities that are rural regional centers (Quincy, IL, Topeka, KS, Waterloo, IA, Quad Cities, IA). These operations would probably require the most funds from the CPB.

Parallel to all of the above, ownership of stations should be the priority, or the sorry situation in Missoula and Phoenix will simply continue. With an adequately funded CPB, when a station comes up for sale, they would be ready. On-line funding drives could even be effected to raise funds to outbid the Christo/Corporatist oligarchy.

On Edit: CPB = Corporation For Progressive Broadcasting

[Misskittycat]

47. I agree totally. We need to implement a different model, pronto. n/t

[cantstandbush]

22. The bit about the advertisers being worried is bullshit. The

advertisers are just included among the group of Bushbots and are using being worried as an excuse to squash the information given out on lib talk shows. They ain't worried at all, they are still going to sell their products no matter what.

[RSchewe]

32. How about the sales people maybe pulling back and not doing their job?

POST 1000! Woohoo! :woohoo:

Anyway...

Check this post out:

4&20 blackbirds: Thoughts on Air America...

(snip)

Why was the station not making a profit? There are two theories. First, Lotto's:

(Lotto) believe(d) the KNS sales team didn’t wholeheartedly try to sell the product.

“The sales staff was not supporting it,” Lotto said, adding that while some sales team members had tried to market the liberal format, others, she felt, were against the programming and didn't have incentive to sell it.


If this is true, then, with a committed sales staff who believe in the product and who know how to market a political talk station, the station could obviously be successful.

However, a darker, more frightening theory was espoused by Cowan:

Cowan said that local businesses were reluctant to commit to the alternative programming.

"There seems to be concern from advertisers with being associated" with controversial programming, he said. "I didn't think that would be a problem in Missoula of all places."

KNS Sales Manager Jim Fisher agreed that business owners were shying away from the format – even if they were avid listeners to the station.

"A lot of them loved to listen, but they didn't want to put their name on it," Fisher said.


Listen. If Missoula businesses were afraid to associate with Air America, that says volumes about the ability of a tiny minority of right-wing demagogues to intimidate the general public.

Of course, the truth probably lies somewhere between the two theories. But what is true is that while the majority of Americans lean towards the Democratic party in ideology -- Gore took the popular vote in 2000, and, according to exit polls, so did Kerry in 2004 -- the public perception is that liberalism is unpopular.

more...

http://4n20blackbirds.blogspot.com/2006/03/thoughts-on-air-america.html

It sounds fishy to me. First Phoenix, now Missoula? It sounds like people are conspiring to get the progressive voice out of the Midwest.

[Wheres The Beef]

23. All media is a business

The "Money Boys" do not lose money. They don't get there by giving it away. The programing or content in any media serves 2 purposes. Attract a desirable audience and separate the ad's. Clear Channel has put some aar programing on in certain markets. If it makes money it will stay. It's real simple.

It's all about the numbers. How many eyes or ears, in my target demographic, can you deliver for the dollar. If you want state run media then be careful who the state is.

[newyawker99]

41. Hi Wheres The Beef!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mucifer]

24. Right wingers are trying to intimidate the Chicago AAR station.

Hopefully the fact that Chicago's station is owned by some independent dems will help. The ratings have gone up despite a very crappy signal. You can't hear the station in most of downtown Chicago.

They have a commercial asking listeners to call sponsors to tell them they appreciate their sponsorship of AAR because right wingers are harassing the sponsors. Pretty messed up. I hope they hang tough. We only get AAR during the daylight hours and I'm in my car a lot.

[Xithras]

25. Talk radio is a business. The customers are advertisers, not listeners.

The economic purpose of radio is to sell advertising. The point of having entertaining radio is to pull in more listeners and increase the value of their advertising.

You can have the best product in the world, but if nobody want to buy it, it's worthless. When a product doesn't sell for long enough, you have to get rid of it and replace it with something else.

[KittyWampus]

28. Or change the business model. AAR should begin selling memberships

is areas where businesses refuse to buy air time.

[sandnsea]

26. They didn't try to sell it

I lived in Missoula and the Biterroot for years. There is easily an advertising market for liberal radio, all they needed to do was hit the college market. I think the part about the sales team not wanting the format to work is more likely, afraid Missoula would attact even more treehuggers and old hippies. It's a shame.

[SmokingJacket]

30. Missoula is very liberal, but it doesn't even know it.

The cowboy contingent is really small... but somehow psychologically dominates the place...

on edit: in fact... most of the cowboys I knew there were liberal...

[B Calm]

31. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up..

because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, I didn't speak up because I wasn't Catholic..

[Pryderi]

37. I try to buy from AAR advertisers and call the business to thank them for

advertising. Then I let them know I will buy from them when I have need of their product or service.

[Cleita]

38. Yesterday there was a post that the Phoenix AAR station was

bought out by a religious outfit. It seems there is a pattern starting to develop in the inland states. Effing censorship. Missoula is one of the larger cities in that area and I think Phoenix is too in that part of the west. It'll be interesting to watch, who might be next, maybe Reno or Denver?

[redherring]

43. Yeah, that's what Ed Schultz said a couple of days ago

His show was ranked no. 3 in phoenix, but he got pushed out.

[DenaliDemocrat]

39. This should be a fucking WAKE UP CALL

We have let them bully us to the point that advertisers are AFRAID to associate with us. If we keep letting them bully democrats, we will never win.

[mucifer]

44. It's possible we'd need a very wealthy backer who'd be willing

to turn away large amounts of cash but wouldn't LOSE any money in owning the progressive radio stations.
I doubt there is anyone willing to do this that has that kind of money. Generally when people are that wealty they are full of greed.

[Pryderi]

45. I would write letters to the advertisers that advertise on the new station

Tell them because they didn't advertise when the station was AAR, you'll be boycotting their product/service for paying to advertise now.