It’s happened! Cleland Speaks about Election Fruad in GA 2002!!!

[autorank]

(I've prayed for just ONE prominent national Democrat to speak out on election fraud. Thank you God. )
Just in:

POLITICAL FIX

St.Louis Post Dispatch StLouis.Com
http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/news-politicalfix/2006/03/demo-days-cleland-calls-bush-a-disaster/
Demo Days: Cleland calls Bush a “disaster”

By Jo Mannies
03/05/2006 12:45 am

Cleland added that he also was concerned about the integrity of the new voting systems, and questioned the accuracy of the Diebold systems in use in Georgia and Ohio. In Ohio in 2004, he asserted “there was a lot of funny business'’ with the voting systems, such putting too few machines in Democratic precincts.

“It’s insane for us to install democracy in Iraq when we don’t even have it in our own country.'’

There were reasons to question the election

The 2002 Georgia races for governor and U.S. Senate are highly instructive. Both Barnes and Max Cleland enjoyed significant leads in pre-election polls right up to Election Day. Cleland lead 5 to 6% and ended up losing the recorded vote by -- a stunning 9 to 12% reversal from the poll just days before the election. Barnes had a similar experience with a swing from leading to losing of 16%.* Prior to this election, Georgia made a heavy commitment to electronic voting and was also organized for Republican victories by Ralph Reed, former protégé of Pat Robertson and a fierce competitor. Questions were raised due to the disparity in polling and election results. These were never formally investigated, even though a Diebold consultant came forward and admitted that he installed a “software patch” on all of the Diebold machines used in the election at the company’s request but without telling the state of the change. He denied any awareness of what the “patch” did for the self-contained voting machines (DRE’s). Diebold refused to allow post-election review of these and the matter was never taken up by board or state officials, U.S. Department of Justice, or FBI.

(*Data from: All the Presidents Votes? The Independent. A. Gumbel. 10/14/2003 Reprinted in it’s entirety at http://www.whoseflorida.com/misc_pages/all_the_presidents_votes.htm)

And guess who was involved…

Comment: A Diebold contractor reported that prior to the 2002 election in Georgia, Diebold sent him to apply a patch to the Diebold machines used all over the state. The contractor did not know what the patch was. Diebold wouldn’t say. The contractor lost his job but spoke out because he thought something was wrong.

Did E-Vote Firm Patch Election? From VoteScam.Com
By Kim Zetter
Oct. 13, 2003

http://www.votescam.com/Patchelections.php

Now a former worker in Diebold's Georgia warehouse says the company
installed patches on its machines before the state's 2002 gubernatorial
election that were never certified by independent testing authorities or
cleared with Georgia election officials.

If the charges are true, Diebold could be in violation of federal and state
election-certification rules. The charges also raise questions about the
integrity of the Georgia election results and any other election that uses
patched Diebold systems that have not been re-certified.

<snip>

Behler said 25 to 30 percent of the machines in one shipment to the
warehouse either crashed upon booting or had problems with their real-time
clocks, causing the systems to register the date inaccurately then boot
improperly or freeze up altogether.

"They did not meet what I would deem standard operation," he said.
Behler said Diebold provided warehouse workers with at least three patches
to apply to the systems before state officials began logic and accuracy
testing on them. Behler said one patch was applied to machines when he came
to the warehouse in June, a second patch was applied in July and a third in
August after he left the warehouse.

There were reasons to question the election

The 2002 Georgia races for governor and U.S. Senate are highly instructive. Both Barnes and Max Cleland enjoyed significant leads in pre-election polls right up to Election Day. Cleland lead 5 to 6% and ended up losing the recorded vote by -- a stunning 9 to 12% reversal from the poll just days before the election. Barnes had a similar experience with a swing from leading to losing of 16%.* Prior to this election, Georgia made a heavy commitment to electronic voting and was also organized for Republican victories by Ralph Reed, former protégé of Pat Robertson and a fierce competitor. Questions were raised due to the disparity in polling and election results. These were never formally investigated, even though a Diebold consultant came forward and admitted that he installed a “software patch” on all of the Diebold machines used in the election at the company’s request but without telling the state of the change. He denied any awareness of what the “patch” did for the self-contained voting machines (DRE’s). Diebold refused to allow post-election review of these and the matter was never taken up by board or state officials, U.S. Department of Justice, or FBI.
*Data from: All the Presidents Votes? The Independent. A. Gumbel. 10/14/2003 Reprinted in it’s entirety at http://www.whoseflorida.com/misc_pages/all_the_presidents_votes.htm

[Hissyspit]

1. kick and recommend

Thanks, autorank.

Cleland, another one of them there ACTUAL patriots. :patriot:

[autorank]

4. Can you believe this. Cleland. Great Guy!!!

Yehaaaaaa.....

[Hissyspit]

8. We should email him.

Thanks to Cleland for what he is doing. (And thanks to autorank for all you do.)

[malaise]

18. Bushco is history

Max must have read the Moscow News.

[Kurovski]

2. Yowzah!!

Recommended.

Go Max!

[autorank]

6. If Max lets loose, it will get very interesting. Up late? :)

[Kurovski]

9. Yes, I'm on my way to bed...maybe.

Entertaining company all day today, and did a quick check-in to find autorank doing his usual award-winning work. :-):bounce:

Max is smart and funny. The best combination for taking creeps to task.

If you ever get a chance to see him in his past appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher--do! In fact it might just be time for Mr. Cleland to make another appearance in a new episode. Oh my, YES.

[Stand and Fight]

3. Recommended. n/t

[autorank]

5. Now, who wants to get really revved up, pissed off! Check this pic out

Hackett greets fellow vet former Sen. Max Cleland, D, GA.
Cleland was injured in Viet Nam. Cleland lost a questionable
Senate election in Georgia in 2002.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0508/S00186.htm

Hackett raised significant funds locally and from Internet activist Democrats, and had some support from the national Democratic Party. Schmidt received an infusion of over $500 thousand during the last few days of the campaign, which allowed her a significant media advantage just before Election Day. The candidates had two formal debates and several joint appearances on local television. Hackett gave strong performances during the debates and appearances and was described by some as charismatic.

-------------------------

Two great guys. Here's Cleland campaigning for Hackett in 08/05 and Hackett's about to get the same crappy treatment Cleland got three years ago. I'm fed up with crappy elections, electoins that look really strange (except to Republicans or wierdos) and always bounce in the Republican direction; or elections like 2000 where we win or 2004, where we probably won, which are just outright disasters.

CLELAND :yourock:

[Kurovski]

10. I seem to recall that the GOP "geniuses"

ran an ad comparing Cleland to bin Laden during the campaign.

Cold comfort though it may be, it's nice to think that voters weren't so stupid as to fall for that, but were instead robbed blind at the polls.

[w8liftinglady]

13. and if they play"Strong at the Broken Places"again on Link TV..

It is a must see.Max Cleland has more class than all those theiving Georgia republicans combined.

[autorank]

39. He does and he's intelligent and gracious. What a loss from the Senate.

[shanti]

84. thanx for the heads up

;)

[brettdale]

7. Kick

Kick

[rucky]

11. Where ya been, Max?

Glad he's getting some ink again.

[ChristianLibrul]

12. fraud

It's long past time to revive the colonial tradition of tarring and feathering rascals like, well, practically everybody in Ohio.

[EFerrari]

14. Welcome to DU, ChristianLibrul. I agree.

:hi:

[Peter Frank]

15. K & R - Great catch!!!...

To quoin a phrase -- "We won't be fooled again."

[Cocoa]

37. you're being fooled now

if you believe what the OP is claiming.

[Stevepol]

16. I too wondered why Cleland didn't gripe when the fix was so obvious.

But I heard nothing at all from him. Maybe finally it's becoming possible for more people to speak out since the fraud has happened in so many places so many times.

Maybe Cleland can lend a hand in Clint Curtis's campaign to unseat Finney in FL. Now that would really get some attention to the issue!

By the way send some money if you're able to Clint Curtis in his run to unseat Finney. He can use the money and even if he fails he will give much publicity to the truth about our election systems, not just in FL but all round the country.

[autorank]

40. What a moment. Cleland shows up for Curtis. Wow.

Cleland is an historic figure in the annals of election fraud. He was the first post Gore-Bush candidate to have it, by all appearances, swiped by machines, swiped by Diebold. He was probably blind sided since our party is not exactly hip on this subject. Now he's rocking. If you read the rest of the article, he really slams Bush, no respect at all. If Cleland gets in a groove on this, wow! Rokken!

[tiptoe]

17. k & r !! nt

[eridani]

19. After four effing years, it't about time

Why not until now, I wonder.

[upi402]

68. I have wondered that for years too.

I've been at this for decades and feel that BushCo must have something on these Dems for them to be so obedient.

[Hekate]

20. My letter to Max Cleland re VETPAC. I just told him what's in my heart.

(Includes address as given at the press conference, in case you want to send a donation, too. I think he may not have spoken out before this about his dirty election for several reasons: Americans hate a sore loser and Gore/Lieberman were mocked for trying to say what was true, and Americans don't/didn't want to believe we are really losing our vote. Whatever the case, I'm glad this great man is finally speaking out.)

February 10, 2006

VETPAC
1725 Eye Street NW
Washington, DC 20006

Attention: Senator Max Cleland

Dear Senator Cleland:

It greatly warmed my heart yesterday when I turned on CSPAN and caught your press conference with the newly-formed VETPAC/ Band of Brothers all announcing they would run for Congress as Democrats this year. I noticed one "Sister" in the band, and according to what I read online last night, there are two more joining her. This is wonderful.

We have lived through terrible times since the year 2000. By the time Al Gore conceded the election to George Bush, after the interference of the Supreme Court in stopping the vote-count, I truly believed my country had undergone a bloodless coup d’etat.

Since that time we have experienced blow after blow to our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and I have felt such anguish over whether our nation would even be able to survive this ordeal intact. The tampering with our balloting systems that affected your last campaign and others since then is one such blow.

I’ve been active locally, but I’m not running for office. I’m just so grateful that your group is. God bless you all. (George Bush wants more prayer in this country? Well, he has certainly driven me to pray for his speedy departure!) Again I say, God bless you all, and thank you all for your service to this nation — past, present, and future.

In support of the Band of Brothers & Sisters I am enclosing a check for $25 payable to the PAC. I know it is not much, but I will post information about the VETPAC on various lists I belong to, and encourage my friends to support you too.

Very sincerely yours,

Hekate's other name

[Hubert Flottz]

24. A fine letter...

I'll write one also.

[autorank]

41. Great letter. What a worthy cause. Thanks for the info.!

[Dinger]

21. K & R

I think Georgia was 100% DIEbold in 2002, unless I am mistaken. Max needs to run there again, as governor or senator, OR he should run for President, and we could all be proud again.

[livvy]

22. Nice find and great post!

and another vote for the Greatest Page!

[Hubert Flottz]

23. This man is now and has always been a PATRIOT.

God Bless Max!

[tecelote]

25. The walls are beginning to crumble.

Here's Bill Richardson's letter:

-----

Dear Colleagues,

The hallmark of American democracy is one person, one vote.

The reason refugees and immigrants, students and professionals from around the world continue to flock toward our shores is because we fundamentally believe in the worth of each person. We believe “all men and all women are created equal.” We believe that regardless of gender, race, class or creed – all voices deserve respect; all voices deserve to be heard. And when it comes to elections, all votes deserve to be counted.

But is our democracy, is our hallmark principle of one person, one vote, on solid ground?

Recent elections would suggest that democracy, the greatest system of government in the world, can be broken. As the world witnessed in 2000, the sanctity of the ballot box and the integrity of our government are vulnerable. The people of the United States lost faith in the electoral process, and the covenant between citizens and elected officials deteriorated. Those national officials scrambled to pass legislation to restore voter confidence, but in 2004, inaccurate exit polls raised further doubts about electronic voting machines without a verifiable paper record.

In New Mexico, a coalition of concerned citizens demanded action. Working together with these citizens and the state legislature, I signed several laws which guarantee that every ballot is counted. New Mexico improved and standardized training for poll workers. We established statewide standards for provisional ballots to ensure that voters in low-income areas will not disenfranchised. We made absentee voting fair, simple, and uniform.

And we took one more critical step to ensure one person, one vote.


On March 2, 2006, I will sign a bill that will transition New Mexico to an all paper-ballot system using optical scanners to count the vote. Paper ballots are the least expensive, most secure form of voting available. Having marked their votes with pen and paper, voters will walk out of the booth and know their voices have been heard. Optical scanners will quickly and accurately provide results, while in the event of a recount, the ballots themselves will be a permanent, verifiable record of the people’s directions to their government.

Some believe that computer touch screen machines are the future of electoral systems, but the technology simply fails to pass the test of reliability. As anyone who uses one can attest, computers break down, get viruses, lose information, and corrupt data. We know this to be the case, and so we back-up our files to ensure nothing important is lost. Paper ballots serve as the ultimate back-up for our elections, providing secure and permanent verification of the will of the people.

New Mexico has chosen paper ballots as the best system to secure our election process. With the new system in place, future elections will be secure, honest, and verifiable. Every vote will count and the citizens of our state will know that their government belongs to them.

One person, one vote is in jeopardy if we do not act boldly and immediately. American citizens once took for granted that every vote mattered, but no longer. It is time that we, the elected state officials, work to restore American’s confidence in our electoral systems and undertake reform that moves to eliminate skepticism and uncertainty.

When a vote is cast, a vote should be counted. With paper ballots we will have a record. With paper ballots the fundamental principle of one person, one vote is safe.

Sincerely,


Bill Richardson, Governor of New Mexico

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. Here's a new one from FL - Voting machine security alert sent

March 4, 2006

TALLAHASSEE - The state recommended on Friday that elections officials across Florida enhance security safeguards for all voting systems after tests in California and Tallahassee exposed weaknesses.

Leon County Supervisor of Elections Ion Sancho called the technical advisory a vindication of his findings last year that some Diebold optical scan voting machines can be hacked by election office insiders to change results.

"In other words, you could steal the election and no one would ever know," Sancho said.

The advisory to supervisors in all 67 Florida counties cites tests by California's Voting Systems Technology Assessment Advisory Board.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/03/04/State/Voting_machine_securi.shtml


I think we just need to null and void all the elections since 2000 and try again. This time with pen, paper and hand counts.

[leftchick]

26. this is excellent news!

thank you autorank! K&R!

[mod mom]

28. Thanks Autorank. k+r

[mirrera]

29. Edit your title! He talks about Ohio...

I read what he said and once again, like Kerry he is not mentioning the theft of his election. Did I miss something? I read it fast because I was so excited, but it looks to me like he is saying "In the 2004 election in Ohio..." He questions the accuracy and mentions Georgia which is a START. But your title is a heart pounder and I feel let down. Glad you posted this though! :)



http://NoBullshiRt.com

[Cocoa]

30. Cleland said there were too FEW machines in dem precincts

in Ohio.

And that story doesn't mention him saying anything about Georgia.

[eomer]

32. The story does mention Cleland saying something about Georgia:

"Cleland added that he also was concerned about the integrity of the new voting systems, and questioned the accuracy of the Diebold systems in use in Georgia and Ohio."

(Recommended)

[Cocoa]

33. Cleland doesn't say anything about Georgia

which was the supposed breakthrough.

And again, he says there were TOO FEW voting machines in dem precincts in Ohio.

[autorank]

45. Direct Quotation: "questioned the accuracy of Diebold ...in GA and OH"

"Cleland added that he also was concerned about the integrity of the new voting systems, and questioned the accuracy of the Diebold systems in use in Georgia and Ohio. In Ohio in 2004, he asserted “there was a lot of funny business'’ with the voting systems, such putting too few machines in Democratic precincts."

Direct quotation.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/news-politicalfix/2006/03/demo-days-cleland-calls-bush-a-disaster

You're on ignore.

[foo_bar]

81. "questioned the accuracy of Diebold" is an "indirect quotation"

The direct quotation is "there was a lot of funny business".

Direct Quotation: Mike said, "I am hungry."
Indirect Quotation: Mike said that he was hungry.

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000338.htm

[Freddie Stubbs]

109. Yet there was no mention of the 2002 election

Why was it necessary to put words in his mouth?

[CottonBear]

104. That's because GA went 100% Diebold in 2002. I'm in GA & Max was my Sen.

Our freaking Dem. Sec. of State, Cathy Cox, went 100% Diebold , first in the US Freaking A for 2002. Now she's running for Gov as a Dem, I am beyond freaking pissed off. Roy Barnes (Gov. in 2002) & Max Cleland (Sen. in 2002) were robbed. The election was stolen. :grr:

I've met Cox. I used to like her. Before 2002. Max Clelalnd, before he was our senator, was a SoS, in charge of elections. :grr:

[jarnocan]

31. so many of US have been saying that it's about time (lobby days)

http://vvlobbydays.blogspot.com and we still do not have the right for verifiable elctions- this is being fought against more and more locally and nationally! It really makes me sick LOBBY DAYS are coming!

[Vidar]

34. Many thanks to you and TruthisAll, Autorank.

[katinmn]

35. Wonderful! Dems have nothing to lose and everything to win.

Some are seeing how desperate the situation really is.

Thank you, Max.

[Cocoa]

36. Cleland is NOT endorsing BBV

To imply that Cleland is endorsing BBV is equally as dishonest as the persistent claims that Conyers is endorsing BBV. Conyers isn't either.

The dishonesty in this OP is astounding and everyone being subjected to it should be insulted and angry at the poster. And the more you admire Cleland or Conyers, the more offended you should be.

[Zan_of_Texas]

51. This is a misleading original post.

I read the quote.

At my instigation, someone in my family cornered Max Cleland at an event, got him in a small room, and talked with him about election fraud. This was probably two years ago.

Max said that he believed he lost because of the issue about the Confederate flag. It seemed like he didn't completely discount the idea that there could have been fraud, but he certainly didn't agree with it at that time.

Diebold was indeed in use in Georgia in 2002, the first state to implement DREs statewide.

I think Andrew Gumbel's article on that election is the best all-around -- read it if you haven't: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1013-01.htm

If Max says more than something vague about Diebold, let us know, eh?

I'm tired of people focusing on the allocation of machines in Ohio. That's safe ground, like saying that the response to Katrina could have been improved. But, that is one of hundreds of instances of flaws and likely fraud in just the 2004 election.

[autorank]

65. Direct quotation in OP. No confusion at all. Reporter quoited exactly.

I have no problem with her reporting. The underlined sentence from the OP is clear:

"Cleland added that he also was concerned about the integrity of the new voting systems, and questioned the accuracy of the Diebold systems in use in Georgia and Ohio. In Ohio in 2004, he asserted “there was a lot of funny business'’ with the voting systems, such putting too few machines in Democratic precincts."

From: "Demo Days: Cleland calls Bush a “disaster”
By Jo Mannies
http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/news-politicalfix/2006/03/demo-days-cleland-calls-bush-a-disaster


Jo Mannies, St. LouisPost Dispatch
Regional Political Correspondent
Columnist, St Louis Post Dispatch

Other columns (recent):
Talent's recent switch recalls Gephardt's shift in '86 02/23/2006
Rumors had been circulating for weeks that a certain prominent member of Congress was about to change his stance on an issue close to the heart of anti-abortion groups.

In auditor race, jabbing goes on under the radar 02/16/2006
The political air is filled with accusations of incompetence and backroom deals. Yet most Missouri voters remain unaware of who the would-be candidates are - or what they're running for.

Democratic win catches both parties by surprise 02/09/2006
Wednesday's headlines around Missouri might have implied otherwise, but Democrat Charles Dake is hardly an overnight success.

Party talked, governor heard, plan got changed 02/02/2006
Was it a sign of strength or weakness for Missouri Gov. Matt Blunt to change course over the Missouri Higher Education Loan Authority?

Poll numbers are in; now we can let the spin begin 01/26/2006
When a poll hits the streets, spin soon follows.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/news-politicalfix/2006/03/demo-days-cleland-calls-bush-a-disaster

[Zan_of_Texas]

79. I should've said, misleading title.

It's your original thread title that to me, autorank, doesn't exactly match the reporter you quote.

The devil of this whole voting mess is in the details.

[autorank]

87. "Rush to judgement" me thinks. See my post 85 for confirmation of lead.

:)

[autorank]

85. Not "misleading" at all. See below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x578479#584749

[UrbScotty]

38. K&R #50 (nt)

[SmokingJacket]

42. Cleland was totally ripped off.

That race took the cake in terms of fraud.

[ooglymoogly]

43. kikidy kick and nom

[RubyDuby in GA]

44. See. I have been saying this from day 1.

Why does it take our so-called "leaders" so long to realize what everyone else can figure out in minutes or days.

I have always said that there was absolutely no freakin' way that Barnes and Cleland lost. Their polling percentages were just too far ahead of Asshat 1 and Asshat 2 (that would be Gov. Sonny Perdue - who just a few short years ago was a "proud Democrat" - fucker - and Senator Saxby Chamblis - or Sackofshit Chambliss media whore as I like to refer to him).

With the new R Governor in place, they twisted arms and got people to switch parties in the state legislature to throw the majority to the republicans. Then, two years later they rammed that goddamned gay marriage down our throats and put in on the ballot ensuring that they nutcase base came out in full force.

Don't for one second try to tell me that 2002 wasn't planned ages ago for here in GA. I know better.

For 3 election cycles, they have cheated because they can't win otherwise. How long will it take for the Democratic party to realize that they will never play fair and to take it back you have to give them a taste of their own medicine. Outcheat them. Pure and simple. Then tell them to "get over it."

[autorank]

46. I agree with you totally!!! Who better than Cleland to kick this off.

Let Asshats 3-n (Corporate Media) call him a kook. He'll eat them for lunch.

Cleland has provided both the truth and cover for everyone else. It's also a great case. Those numbers have bothered me for a long time. The spreads on Barnes and Cleland are simply unbelievable AND Diebold did their last minute patch. That company is going to go down so hard. They've given up an otherwise excellent business to do this crap. If I were a shareholder, I'd be furious.

Of special note, this is when Ralph Reid (formerly of Pat Robertson and more recently Abramoff fame) took over the GA party. What a debut. He taints everything he touches in politics.

In some ways this was the first pure machine "Switcharoo" (maybe Diebold, ESS, Sequoia should start a festival with this name, pattern it after "Bonnaroo";) Diebold would be the headliner, w/out doubt!

[freedomfries]

47. k & r

thanks for another great post, auto!

[autorank]

49. Thank you. You're everywhere!

:hi:

I for one wouldn't want to on the other side of Cleland on this issue. I think his own loss plus Hackett's screwing (he campaigned for Hackett) was just too much.

We're rokken!!!

[radio4progressives]

50. Hear! Hear! RubyDuby! Hear! Hear!

For 3 election cycles, they have cheated because they can't win otherwise. How long will it take for the Democratic party to realize that they will never play fair and to take it back you have to give them a taste of their own medicine. Outcheat them. Pure and simple. Then tell them to "get over it."

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Max Cleland come out with this (originally)three years ago? Why didn't the Democratic party DEAL with this issue THEN? I was born in Georgia, but haven't lived there in 40 years.. And I don't remember if Max was running as Senator or House Rep? Was it the Fascists Chambliss that ended up with Cleland's seat? or was it House Rep Pryor? (or other?)

[brer cat]

53. Max was running as Senator, and...

was unexpectedly upset by Sackofshit Chambliss media whore, as he has been so aptly named by RubyDuby.

[RubyDuby in GA]

76. Cleland was running for re-election to the US Senate seat

and this relative unknown (Chambliss) soundly beats him? I don't think so....

[helderheid]

48. K & R! Go Max!

[mirandapriestly]

52. His election was SO SUSPICIOUS

I'm glad he finally is saying something.

[autorank]

54. War hero loses to Scout Master...amazing, unbelievable BS.

And the poll shifts...not likely.

:sarcasm: But the Diebold patch on all those machines had nothing to do with it.

[Dr Ron]

55. From Story: Backing Kerry in 2008

In a brief interview afterwards, Cleland said he expected Sen. John Kerry to make another bid for the White House in 2008, and Cleland will back Kerry if he does.


More quoted at The Democratic Daily

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2143

[autorank]

70. Cleland shows a lot of class. Very loyal person, admirable. n/t

That's the kind of "buddy" everyone wants and enjoys.

[deadparrot]

56. I was at Demo Days in Hannibal this weekend and heard Cleland speak.

Went with the College Dems at my school. If anyone has any questions, feel free to post them and I'll try to answer as best I can.:hi:

[w8liftinglady]

66. what was your impression?what kind of questions did they ask?

[deadparrot]

69. There wasn't a Q&A session at the banquet.

However, people were VERY fired up. We were pretty far from the dais, but during all the speeches, audience members were echoing the sentiments expressed by the speakers.

What I noticed is that the Democrats were going on the offensive a lot more than in past years. McCaskill's campaign had Jim Talent "waffle" signs everywhere. They had stickers signifying the number of straight days he'd been wavering on stem cells, kept calling him a Bush "Mini-Me." They were very angry, frustrated, and willing to push the envelope. They weren't afraid to go negative.

It was mentioned how our governor, Matt Blunt, cut insurance for tens of thousands of Missourians, sending them a letter with a number to call for questions and concerns. The number ended up being to some woman in Montana, and she was getting 48 calls a minute about it. Blunt's office never did release a correct number.

McCaskill passed around copies of an article of a Missouri soldier who went to Iraq. They got armor for their vehicle, but not the tools to actually install it (a Missouri company ended up providing the needed tools). She said that her father was a WWII vet, and the letters he left behind asked for prayers, good thoughts, clean underwear, and cookies, but never tools to install armor on the vehicles they used.

Lots of talk about not forgetting rural voters. Nixon (running for governor in 2008) and McCaskill's offices are apparently getting calls from older citizens terrified about Medicare.

Cleland was very fired up. I completely applaud his efforts--he said things that are a bit taboo for big political players. He brought up his loss due to BBV and the smear campaign, he talked about Diebold execs promising Ohio for Bush in 2004. He said that the ad they ran against him was right, though--he voted against the national security stuff twelve straight times, "and do it again."

Lots of Bush-is-in-the-political-toilet jokes, obviously.

All in all, I was impressed by how angry everyone was. They want to get going on the campaign season, and seem to have a real passion to get these people out of office.

[autorank]

72. I RECOMMEND your report. That's great first hand stuff. Thanks.

deadparrot :yourock:

[deadparrot]

74. No problem.

I'm glad to do it. If anyone has any other questions, feel free to PM me. :hi:

Sorry I can't remember more...all the college kids got the "Over 21" badges whether we were or not. When you add about 20 hospitality rooms giving away free drinks, things get a bit...hazy. :D

[w8liftinglady]

75. wow..what a great synopsis...

I hope more prominent democrats get the "fire in their belly'

[deadparrot]

78. Thanks.

Like I said, I'm sorry that I couldn't provide more detail. The dinner was about two hours long with speakers speaking constantly, so it was hard to keep track of everything that was said. :hi:

[autorank]

80. Cleland "questioned accuracy of ... GA & OH. Was he referring to GA 2002?

I now that seems obvious, at least to me since he didn't run in 2000 and 2004...but you never know.

Any other details abouthis BBV comments would be greatly appreciated.

Quite a Party you folks have!

[deadparrot]

82. It was lots of fun.

Yes, he was definitely referring to not only 2004, but also 2002. When recounting the smears against him, he was careful to preface his statements with the fact that Diebold machines were installed throughout his home state of Georgia. Obviously, he didn't grouse about it at length, but he made the connection clear enough. He talked at length about his time as Georgia's secretary of state, what an important position it is, and how crucial it is for the voters to have faith in the voting process.

Hope that helped. :hi:

[Swamp Rat]

57. kick and recommended!!! ... Geaux Max!!!

:kick:

[suziedemocrat]

58. My Dream - Bush gets Impeached for ELECTION FRAUD.

I want this all out in the open!!! I want the entire world to know Americans didn't want this ass-hole - he CHEATED!!!! I want him completely humiliated and sharing a cell next to Saddam!!! He HATES DEMOCRACY - or maybe he just defines Democracy as getting what he wants. I want Democracy in the Arab World = means = I want to get my way in the Arab world.

[autorank]

73. 1984...a recurring testimony to the "Power of Nightmares" n/t

[Higans]

101. 1984 Excerpt:

'Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?'

He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: 'How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?'

Winston thought. 'By making him suffer,' he said.

'Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery is torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain. The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy everything. Already we are breaking down the habits of thought which have survived from before the Revolution. We have cut the links between child and parent, and between man and man, and between man and woman. No one dares trust a wife or a child or a friend any longer. But in the future there will be no wives and no friends. Children will be taken from their mothers at birth, as one takes eggs from a hen. The sex instinct will be eradicated. Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty towards the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always -- do not forget this, Winston -- always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever.'

http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984

[robbedvoter]

59. 2002 - Georgia & Minesotta were obvious. Others stolen as well.

Can you imagine how much better had we beed if max had spoken THEN? Or Kerry in 2004?
Still, glad it's finally out there. Maybe the self flagellation for "losing elections' will stop now.

[Mnemosyne]

60. Hallelujah! n/t

:applause: :woohoo:

[FreedomAngel82]

61. Check this out too

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/007554.html#more

[autorank]

63. I like Bredesen...intellectually honest.

"Generally, the Governor expressed a belief that it is important for those elected to office to feel their selection was legitimate. He speculated that someone who felt their legitimacy was questioned could act out in extreme ways as means of "proving themselves". (Sound like anyone we know?)"

This is the crux of the argument. We don't have to prove that the elected officials, any of them, are illegtimate. They have to demonstrate their legitimacy. That's done through simple common sense election policies:

free and fair elections;
open inspection of voting and vote tabulation; and
a number of checks on the system to assure acuracy and honesty.

Bredesen sees it and I really commend you folks for getting his ear. This is actualy a ray of hope.

I know that TN activists have been exemplary in doing this missionary work including our great guy "Fly by Night"

Thanks!!!

[understandinglife]

62. K&R.

Peace.

[Nutmegger]

64. Holy BEJEZZUS!!!!!

Thanks for this!!!

:kick: and :thumbsup:!!!

[Up2Late]

67. Thank you Max, and Thank you ALL here at DU for caring.

Now let's FIX this problem before you lose your vote too!:kick:

[DemReadingDU]

71. K&R

[DanCa]

77. Max is god, god is Max. Max for vp.

If these asshats, who feign patriotism ,ever wanted to know anything about how a real patriot acts than all they have to do is watch this men. I love Max he is my inspiration.

[shanti]

83. go max cleland!

they are afraid of him...

[autorank]

86. The y should quake in their tiny little boots. He's too smart and too ...

tough for any of them. I've always loved the guy, he's so genuine.

It's always a pleasure to see the insomniac brigade show up;)

[Tsiyu]

88. Max Cleland - Another casualty of the Slimy Swiftboaters

The Slimy Swiftboaters succeeded in making all Vets look like radicals so that his very questionable defeat (Cleland was popular with many in Georgia of all political sorts) was never properly investigated.

[paineinthearse]

90. The (not so) swifties have already begun attacking Bernie Sanders

...in his race to be Senator from Vermont.

[paineinthearse]

89. Two thanks

1. To the admins for placing an edited version on the home page.

2. To Autorank, for his tireless work (usually found in the ELECTION REFORM) - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[autorank]

91. Wow, didn't even know about Home Page...Thank you even though

you're a "paineinthearse" ;)

[Imagevision]

92. putting too few machines in Democratic precincts.-that'll work...

I believe the Dems allowed much of what happened with election fraud, it was simply too obvious -- especially Kerry stating a few days after the election that: "he thought it was the bin laden video released a few days before the election is what did him in"?? -- Last week Bush issued a statement agreeing with this - truly pathetic!!

[DirtyDawg]

93. I'm sorry, but Max has nobody to blame...

...but himself. As I understood it at the time, Max Cleland's campaign staff was begging him to get tough on Saxby Chambliss - his opponent in '02 - in response to the campaign that was being run against him. They had the message and the spots all ready to go that would have called Chambliss out on his sorry-ass, effort along with calling him the chickenhawk that he was...and he/they got cold feet. I don't know why...maybe they just decided it wasn't the 'gentlemanly' thing to do...meanwhile, they got their asses handed to them and we got two repig senators and a 'denny-dimwit' repig governor.

As for the polls, again, it was my understanding that going into the last couple of days Cleland was in fact in trouble. I even ran into Begala and Carville at lunch on election day who quite candidly said so...that the Governor's job was safe but Max's was in doubt. So even though I believe Diebold was the final weapon, if Cleland and Barnes had run a more aggressive campaigns, Diebold wouldn't have mattered.

[Kurovski]

94. Election fraud always matters.

Whether his main intent is to blame Diebold for his loss (and I don't perceive that it is) or confront fraud matters not at all to me.

Flushing the fraudsters out is the main event.

And you're right, Dems should in fact ALWAYS fight spurious charges. It does matter. If the polls showed a wide disparity between the numbers and the final outcome, it might have served as a red flag. Even if a disparity in numbers was widely ignored in the presidential election of 04.

Not to say Begala and Carville (or anyone else) had misled you, (or anyone else) but here is how the polls leading up to the election played out:

"Both Barnes and Max Cleland enjoyed significant leads in pre-election polls right up to Election Day. Cleland lead 5 to 6% and ended up losing the recorded vote by -- a stunning 9 to 12% reversal from the poll just days before the election."

[Jackpine Radical]

96. I saw Max in January '04 & asked him about that election.

He flat-out said he didn't at all accept the Diebold hypothesis & attributed his loss to a heavy Puggy push in the last few days, including Shrub showing up to campaign for Shameless.

I thought max was naive about the Diebold thing & ghope he's waking up now.

[second edition]

97. You look for accurate information from Begala and Carvile?

Please, they would say anything that made them appear right and everyone else wrong. Cleland would have benefited from more Democratic support. Where was Carvelle and Begella? Probably out downing other Dems. Cleland was Swift boated pure and simple. No soldier who has lost limbs while defending his country should have to prove he is tough. That is obvious.Our party should have been their defending him loud and clear instead of having lunch and discussing numbers. They helped lose this race. By your observation, we need to beat a 3% point diabold Republican advantage just to start with and if we don't then it is our fault.This theory seems a lot like blame the victim.

[DirtyDawg]

108. I'm telling you, Cleland wimped out

Key members of the demo party, including some selected advisors, begged him to come back at Chambliss...as I said they had the message and they had the spots ready to go...and Max couldn't pull the trigger. And again, the polls going into the last few days - particularly the polls that the demo party was looking at, had Cleland and Chambliss closer than 5-6 points.

Don't get me wrong, the 'robgeorgia' Diebold effort made the job easier - hell it even brought down Barnes and he did have a comfortable lead - but both candidates ran poor campaigns and fell right into the repig hands.

[paineinthearse]

98. What are Cleland's plans?

So if Chamblis "won" his seat in 2002 and he is a class 2, does that mean that class 3 senators are up for reelection 2 years later, in 2006?

If so, is Cleland running against Isakson?

Chambliss, Saxby- (R - GA) Class II
416 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: chambliss.senate.gov/Contact/default.cfm?pagemode=1

Isakson, Johnny- (R - GA) Class III
120 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: isakson.senate.gov/contact.cfm

[CottonBear]

106. Max was swiftboated.. Ads comapring him to BinLaden & Saddam ran.

Diebold freaking stole the election I know. I'm in GA. The polls ran one way and the support ran for the Dems and then Max and Roy were voted out after they were Diebolded.

[AzDar]

95. kick...

[Patsy Stone]

99. Go, Max!

I salute you! :patriot:

K&R!

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Botany]

102. Go Max!

With all the other things coming out ..... maybe now the stolen elections will
gain some traction.

[windy252]

103. Finally,

I was beginning to seriously wonder if any Dem was going to speak about this at all. That at least gives some hope. :woohoo:

[Nikki Stone 1]

105. He's proved himself a hero again

Damned shame this guy isn't in Congress.

[Kurovski]

107. kick(nt)