A simple observation about why Hillary will not be a successful candidate.

[Skidmore]

I was just listening to some of the callers on WJ this morning talking about how it would be okay to put people in jail who leak information and it occurred to me why a woman--Hillary or any other woman--will not be a successful candidate. In the good old sexist USA, men have begrudgingly let women go into combat with them, but the will never vote to have a woman command a war. Plain and simple. Just won't happen yet, especially in the current climate where many people have been convinced that the only acceptable role for a woman is to produce children at any cost.

[mandyky]

1. Hillary was a Goldwater Girl

as a teen or young adult. It always comes back to that for me.

[rpannier]

3. That doesn't bother me for a few reasons

1. I was a republican until I was a junior in high school (1980)
2. Howard Dean was a repub
3. Stephanie Miller was a Goldwater girl too.

People change.

[woo me with science]

23. How do you feel about Robert Byrd? nt

[Divernan]

6. Your attitude is so Joe McCarthy.

If you know how he went after everyone who ever went to a Communist party meeting, even one meeting, and no matter how young they were. If you grew up in a Republican neighborhood, Republican community and Republican family, your first political activity would most likely be around a Republican politician. When my oldest was a teenager, she enthusiastically accompanied her Dad and me to various George McGovern rallies and helped us campaign for him. She had no idea what his policies were, other than that her parents supported him, but she sure loved all the excitement of political rallies and the campaign.

I personally admire Hilary Clinton, but I disagree with some of her centrist positions, and particularly her support of the Iraq war,and would not support her candidacy in a primary, but would of course support her in a general election.

[leetrisck]

2. Well, she's produced a child so I

will vote for her for Commander in Chief

[Maddy McCall]

4. Hillary won't be a successful candidate because she won't BE a candidate.

The only people pushing this are Republicans--it's a pipe dream. But evidently enough Democrats have listened to them, because I see references to Hillary's supposed candidacy all over DU.

Mark my word. Hillary will NOT be a 2008 presidential candidate. If she is, I will print out this post and eat it.

[Kingshakabobo]

5. Are you saying she won't even run in the primary?

I may hold you to this. :)

[Disturbed]

9. Are Hill and Bill stupid?

I don't think so. This is why she won't run. They know that she cannot win.

Rethugs of any stripe will not vote for her. Swing voters won't vote for her. Liberal to Progressive Dems won't vote for her. She does not have the numbers now or will she have them then. Rethugs generate a whole lot of money by keeping her in the race. RW Media is pushing this, as well. It is all about making money. She won't run.

[Skidmore]

12. I have a more basic reason for not voting for her.

I don't believe in dynasties. This is a democracy. I don't believe there should be either Republican dynasties or Democratic dynasties.

[Skidmore]

7. I agree with you also, Maddy, and

I do think that she will have to do some major rethinking of her positions on issues before she can convince people to select her to head the ticket. I see two groups forwarding her--Republicans and Bills old crew, who would dearly love to be back in the WH. DLC, Carville, Begala...that bunch. The DLC bunch is soooo 90s. They have jumped the shark. NAFTA was their chance to prove that free markets would free the world. They blew it while working hand in hand with the Republicans on it. Now they want to free the world through war--hand in hand with the neocons.

[Devlzown]

10. Excellent summation!

Clintons, neocons -- flip a coin, I say.

[ikojo]

13. Not only did the Clintons AND Gore push NAFTA

through (something the Republican George HW Bush would not have been able to do) but Clinton also signed DOMA (the "Defense" of Marriage Act) and Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

I don't think the Dems as a party have renounced either DOMA or Don't Ask Don't Tell.

[robcon]

8. She is the best campaigner I've ever seen.

Inspirational, intelligent, optimistic and tough.

She'll be the next president, IMO.

[Kolesar]

14. I'd rather have beenie baby on the stump

She can't smile, her voice is reedy, she speaks without vision. Like John Kerry with a blown woofer.

[rodeodance]

17. i agree with you.

[Poppyseedman]

21. Your kidding, right?

She is the best campaigner I've ever seen.

She is a master political strategist behind the scenes, but as a campaigner on the stump?

You must have taken the blue pill.

[Divernan]

11. Many countries with armies have had or now have women chief executives.

Chile just elected Michele Bachelet, a former political prisoner as its president. Then of course we have India and England - so maybe you're projecting your personal beliefs that a woman could not command a war. I do think it's true that most women would see war as LAST resort, as opposed to Bush who saw it as just a dandy way to generate profits for himself and his corporate gang of crooks and thieves.

On edit: Hey folks, notice that Skidmore's basic point is that Hillary cannot be elected because NO WOMAN can be elected because a woman could not order troops into war. Don't let Skidmore get by with that assumption, unchallenged, because you immediately jump to the pros and cons of Hillary's possible candidacy.

[Skidmore]

15. Skidmore, if you will read closely, is saying that in this nation now

where the attitudes of misogyny are so prevalent now, I don't think a woman would be given the office. I have other reasons for not wanting to vote for Hillary myself, but I do think there are several other women who would make excellent presidents. I just don't see it happening now in the climate that has been fostered in this nation recently.

[Divernan]

18. I understand your concern/point and would like to hear IT debated,

and not see the thread deteriorate into a Hilary flame war. Because your assumption re the unelectability of women presidential candidates re military concerns can be expanded to argue that NO woman should run for high level office. Obviously that has not happened, since we have women governors, senators and representatives, as well as cabinet level officers/Secretaries of State - Madelyn Albright as well as Condoleeza.

Governors control national guard units - they get sent to war. Senators are supposed to vote to approve the country going to war (although of course many recent presidents have ignored that requirement). Anyone elected to the House or Senate might be appointed to or chair a Committee having to do with military forces or funding of weapons development/deployment.

Practically speaking, I tend to agree with you, that this country is not ready to elect a woman president. I also thought the political power brokers and general public would never have gone along with Bush naming the 4th and 5th Catholics to the Supreme Court. And why are the Republicans constantly floating Condi as a potential candidate? And how will the misogyny of excluding women from consideration for the top office of the country ever be overcome? Lots to think about and discuss and debate - and DU is a great place for that.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Why Would She Want To Run?

Look at the mess this regime is creating...whomever comes next has a tremendous job to do...from figuring out how to get out of the Iraq mess to rebuilding an outsourced economy to restoring international relations tattered by the boosh regime and try to bring this nation together. And that's just the "to-do" list for the first day on the job...it doesn't get easier from there.

If this regime falls, with it will be the power of the executive. The House and Senate will scramble to "re-assert authority" and depending on whose in control of those branches, the next President will pay the price for all the excesses and corruption of the last one. With such a daunting job and all the frustrations that are sure to go with it, who'd want that job when you're sitting in a better place to enact a lot of changes...the Senate.

The "Hillary Game" is turning into one of the last bastions of wingnut diversion. Being obsessed with her sure takes the sting of hearing all the criticism of the corrupt regime they support. She helps the Democratic party more by playing rope-a-dope with these idiots and biding her time and working in a strong Democratic Senate than going into the pressure cooker that surely will be what awaits the next President...no matter who it is.

[wakeme2008]

19. I hate Hillary, but my favorite line to RW is "President Hillary will love

in the case "putting ppl in jail that leak information. :evilgrin:

[Poppyseedman]

20. Produce children at any cost???

especially in the current climate where many people have been convinced that the only acceptable role for a woman is to produce children at any cost.

Your point is only within the last 6 years, many people have been brainwashed that women should be barefoot and pregnant?

Hillary being a successful candidate has almost no bearing on how the "barefoot and pregnant" contingent of the rethug party vote. A rather small one at that. They aren't going to vote for her anyway.

BTW, how do you account for the "Condi for President" wing of the rethug party? She's female, African-American and Sec of State, but not pregnant?

Hillary has much bigger problems within her own base.

[sellitman]

22. No...Here's why she won't win....

Diebold

Sequoia

Es & S



Of course that means that any Dem will lose. Doesn't matter who.

[ABaker]

24. I agree with post #12

I will not vote for anyone named Bush or Clinton for President.

20 years of Clinton or Bush is enough.

[Toots]

25. I never thought women would become police or firemen either

I think if Hillary ever chose to run for President she would blow them out of the water.

[Joe Fields]

26. Have no fear----Al Gore will be here!

It's a long way to (Tipper)ary.

I can think of many obvious reasons why Hillary won't become the Democratic nominee for president. She may just be the right gender, but is definitely the wrong one to carry the dem. banner.

For starters, she is nakedly power hungry. She has shown that she will do or say anything to achieve power. Now, while this is not an isolated trait in politics, anything that Hillary does is magnified exponentially.

Secondly, she will never be able to shake off the percieved baggage of her husband's administration. We know that the republicans made up numerous fabrications to try and tarnish Bill Clinton's presidency. But even though all of those bogus scandals, with the exception of Monica Lewinsky were red herrings, the fact remains that much of the public believed them.

Third, there is much of America that is not ready for a woman president. I do not share this view, for I believe in a woman's equal right to screw this country up as much as the men have done.

Fourth, Much of this country will not want Bill Clinton back in the White House, even if it is only as a First Husband.

Fifth, it is my opinion that she will fracture the Democratic party. There are many within the party, myself included that feel she doesn't have our best interests at heart. We couldn't agree on John Kerry among ouselves last time around. Do you honestly feel we will get behind Hillary? Her likability factor is just this side of Terry MacCauliff.

There is no doubt that Hillary is a brilliant person. But she has no clear message, lacks the oratorical skills of her husband, is percieved to be on a supreme power trip, and will not, in the end be accepted by her own party. She may be building up plenty of money in her war chest, but I doubt if she survives past Iowa.