Why do "we" continue to let the Iran/Contra criminals run this country?

[Citrene]

After they were all pardoned by "Poppy" they all went into private enterprises (military-industrial) and then when Jr. was selected they were all pulled out of the basement, dusted off and presented as "experienced LEADERS". What the hell did any of us think when Bush stood in front of the cameras, presented us with this administration and promised to bring honor and integrity back to our government. I remember what I thought and said to my husband, "we're going to war".

I just wish someone could help me understand how "we" let this happen..

And why, just why does anyone here believe that in the 2006 elections we can beat the machines? "They" have seized power, does anyone really believe we can "vote" them out?

Dahr Jamail's recent essay at TruthOut is what has me pondering this issue this early Sunday morning.

Negroponte, Latin America, John Bolton, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Abrams, Poppy (still), jeez, the list is endless.

BFEE, the US is not a democracy anymore and yes, Virgina, facism is real and it is here now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

The Bush administration, seeking to limit leaks of classified information, has launched initiatives targeting journalists and their possible government sources. The efforts include several FBI probes, a polygraph investigation inside the CIA and a warning from the Justice Department that reporters could be prosecuted under espionage laws. (being discussed in LBN, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2146205 )

from Dahr's essay at Truthout:
snip:

Remember when Negroponte was the US ambassador to Honduras, from 1981 to 1985? While there he earned the distinction of being accused of widespread human rights violations by the Honduras Commission on Human Rights while he worked as "a tough cold warrior who enthusiastically carried out President Ronald Reagan's strategy," according to cables sent between Negroponte and Washington during his tenure there.

The human rights violations carried out by Negroponte were described as "systematic."

snip:
While Negroponte was the US ambassador to Honduras, civilian deaths sky-rocketed into the tens of thousands. During his first full year, the local newspapers carried no less than 318 stories of extra-judicial attacks by the military.

He has been described as an "old fashioned imperialist" and got his start during the Vietnam War in the CIA's Phoenix program, which assassinated some 40,000 Vietnamese "subversives."

Negroponte's death squads used electric shock and suffocation devices in interrogations, kept their prisoners naked, and when a prisoner was no longer useful he was brutally executed.

Outraged at the human rights abuses by the Reagan-Bush administration, in 1984 Nicaragua took its case to the World Court in The Hague. The decision of the court was for the Reagan-Bush administration to terminate its "unlawful use of force" in international terrorism and pay substantial reparations to the victims. The White House responded by brushing off the court's findings and vetoed two UN Security Council resolutions that affirmed the judgment that all states must observe international law.

In the middle of Negroponte's tenure in Iraq, the Pentagon (read Donald Rumsfeld) openly considered using assassination and kidnapping teams there, led by the Special Forces.

Referred to not-so-subtly as "the Salvador option," the January 2005 rhetoric from the Pentagon publicized a proposal that would send Special Forces teams to "advise, support and possibly train" Iraqi "squads." Members of these squads would be hand-picked Kurdish Peshmerga militia and Shia Badr militiamen used to target Sunni resistance fighters and their sympathizers.

What better man to make this happen than John Negroponte? His experience made him the perfect guy for the job. What a nice coincidence that he just happened to be in Baghdad when the Pentagon/Rumsfeld were discussing "the Salvador option."

Fast forward to present day Iraq, .....

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/030306Z.shtml


I just want to cry and I don't know what to do anymore. Protests just don't seem to be working much.

[formercia]

1. That's what happens when nobody cleans house

the trash just sits in the corner waiting for the next tenant. Maybe the job can be done right this time around.

[glitch]

29. And then the rats show up, and we've got ourselves an infestation.

The job's is much tougher now because we've let it go far too long. But we'll get it done.
I just hope we don't have to raze the house.

[Just Me]

37. True. When political expediency/convenience trumps justice and,...

,...the rule of law, that shit just festers and grows like a mold over time.

The house shoulda' been cleaned during Nixon's administration. Iran/Contra may not have occured had the mold been cleaned out to begin with.

[acmavm]

2. We got complascent. We got lazy. We really believed that it couldn't

happen again. And maybe we got burnt out and tired.

Face it, since shortly after the Civil War the republican party has been filled with nothing but criminals. Read up on the Carpetbaggers.

They make long-term plans and are adept and skilled at avoiding conviction. Democrats need to start going for the juglar and not letting go until the beast is dead.

[JackRiddler]

3. My thought exactly

And anyone who remembers the 1980s may understand it.

When the whole crew was returned to power in 2000, they had not only got away with an enormous complex of macrocrimes in the 1980s, they were being rewarded for it. Iran/Contra, CIA-drugs, the plunder of hundreds of billions in the banking scandals, plans for martial law, genocidal wars in Central America, arms for Iran and Iraq... how could the perpetrators not view it all as success, once returning to power. As now senile old men, how could you expect them not to try to top it? And to think they got back in by stealing the election.

I told anyone who would listen: Bush means big war. Also domestic repression and plunder of treasury. Also oil seizures. Pretext will be necessary, since Americans watch them on TV but are bored of fighting them. Look for a Reichstag fire in the next year. Not having seen what was coming, I thought it was a joke: when's the Reichstag fire, ha ha?

2.3 trillion dollars and 9/11.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. It's the golden rule turned inside out..... those who have the gold,

or rather those who have been bought by the gold.... RULE. It's not a perfect system, but it has gotten us where we are today.

[JackRiddler]

5. But the real question on this board should be...

Why did Clinton let them get away with it after the first time?

[drduffy]

6. you're joking, right?

[JackRiddler]

13. Of course I'm not joking

One of the most ambitious set of government crimes was carried out under the first Bush-Reagan regime of 1980-1992. Genocide, election manipulation, assassination, outright stealing from the treasury in the hundred-billion dollar range, plundering of banks, drug dealing, violation of laws banning arms sales, coups, also economic disaster in the end. And this fraud Clinton comes in, pretending anything will change, and does nothing, de nada, zero to expose this. When you are in power and you let them get away with these crimes, then you are complicit. And they will understand that they have been rewarded and that they can attempt even greater crimes. In the end, there was a descent into farce where they were investigating Clinton for any triviality and meanwhile he had the goods on drug dealing under Crack Kingpin George HW Bush and did nothing to expose it.

Suckers. When will you rise up and take your own party? Unfortunately, the consistency of past experience is a guide. You will forever be suckered by the frauds, over and over, as you just were again by Kerry, as you will most likely be by whatever fraud tops the 2008 bill (Hillary - you want a dynasty?) Is this your idea of democracy?

[blm]

18. Clinton didn't want Kerry to win BECAUSE he knew Kerry would reopen the

books on IraContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning.

[Joe Fields]

46. Do you know this to be fact? Or is this just an opinion?

[Joe Fields]

45. Get real!

From the moment Bill Clinton became president he was under a mighty siege by republicans to destroy him. He had his hands full, trying to ward off a dozen investigations.

[blm]

17. No joke at all. Read Clinton's book, his own words - he let IranContra

books be closed because he thought Poppy Bush deserved a peaceful retirement. I call overly vague and bullshit on that explanation.

And isn't it ODD that Clinton never even MENTIONS one word about BCCI, at ALL in his book?

[JackRiddler]

19. Hey, Clinton was planning to spend his own retirement with Papa Bush

n/t

[Joe Fields]

47. Show me some proof. And not conjecture, based on what

he DOESN'T put into a book about himself. That is really reaching.

[blm]

48. You want to believe a major policy wonk like Clinton wouldn't have had ANY

opinion on what happened in BCCI? You want to believe that Clinton really beieved Bush1 DESERVED a peaceful retirement and that IranContra books SHOULD be closed for that reason alone?

Get real. IranContra and BCCI story helped destroy the public trust in Bush1. Clinton did NOT do this country any favors by keeping those books closed.

9-11 is proof of that.

[Citrene]

7. There is the real question, , time to break out the damned

tin foil. Where is my hat? I seem to have misplaced it.

JR, what did you think the morning of 9/11? Did you think "inside job" that morning? We did.

[Greyhound]

8. "We" are the Democratic Party, and "we" have pursued a policy

of abject failure to perform even the most rudimentary of duties. Some of us have been pointing these shenanigans out since before the cabal was carried out.

[hootinholler]

9. Dang, and I thought this was the Nixonian trash smelling up the joint...

Oh, yeah they did Iran/Contra too.

-Hoot

[Hotler]

10. Why do so many on the hill fear these thugs??

Do they hold dirt on everybody? Do they really fear for their lives?

[LiberalUprising]

41. They don't fear these thugs

They are the thugs, just as the repugs are thugs, they are on the same team.

Why is this so hard to see?

[iamahaingttta]

11. I don't think "we" really had a choice!

It's cyclical, and by that I mean historically. "There's a time to create and a time to destroy." Well, we are in the destruction part of the cycle. The individual players don't really matter. People have always been pretty much the same, and there will always be people who come along ready to break things.

George Walker Bush is a product of the forces of history. He is the perfect embodiment of the forces of destruction, and this is his time in history. He'll get away with everything, and when Spring comes, those who get through it will be horrified and will vow never to let those forces become unleashed again. A generation later, it will happen again.

Oh, there will be "War Crimes Tribunals" and other related circus acts, but we will never actually change the forces of nature. We can only hope to change ourselves in some small ways so as to maybe bring these cycles in to some more understandable and manageable form. Removing from the gene pool those who are most likely to perpetrate acts of horror would be a good start, but... those are the ones who are terrorizing the rest of us. It's sort of a Catch-22. The best we can hope for is that we personally are safe. That's the best anyone anywhere and anytime could ever hope for.

Try to find some small comfort in the knowledge that it is simply NOT your fault! And, it's OK to get MAD!!!

[Citrene]

12. thanks and welcome to DU.

What are we to do with our anger? How can we change and stop this madness?

Interesting read I came across this am:

http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/node/2350

The Path to Peace - Living a life of non-violence
Submitted by J G on Fri, 02/03/2006 - 11:55am. Waging peace

In the interview of last January 2005, Corretta King was asked many hard questions about herself, insight into her contributions to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and what she said he may inject into the current world of chaos, or what may be filled that is lacking towards solution and peace. Her answer was largely there is a void of character and true moral leadership, people are struggling to find a person or group to lead by example so they may follow. What struck me is her comment of "you must be the change you wish to see" instead of looking for others to do it, you must do it yourself, affect your corner of the world and let it begin with you. Who knows what will happen?

My reason to begin a new thread is to seriously open up the debate and discussion on how we can truly affect our world in a peaceful and non-violent way.

I was struck at the passion of Alex and her daughter Emma who rode the VFP bus to Covington, LA and Washington DC. While there our kids played and squabbled over the limited toys available to them in a disaster zone or at the vast demonstration in DC. While at Covington, my kids hit her kid, her kid hit my kid, bottom line Alex caught Emma hitting Raven and WOW she was all over it. I was impressed at her conviction to affect her child early on and convey the message of violence to solve issues was wrong, and she worked hard with her kid to teach her alternative ways of resolving her issues with others. I will never forget that. I have since caught myself dealing with my children in the ways I was dealt with, and understand personaly for me that yelling and intimidating kids to make them obey out of fear is also violent, and I have had to learn a new way of thinking and managing my kids. I have stopped letting them play violent video games for a good reason. There is violence used almost across the board to solve their issues and 'win' by wiping out opposition.

The other day I was summoned by my spouse Vivica who had been talking already with my kid Xavier about something serious. He had apparently started playing child's game with our daughter Raven, some sort of killing game where she played along by dying and then getting up. My wife was horrified that he would play to kill his own sibling, and dealt with it by sitting him down and trying to figure out how he came to this conclusion. What came out of that was mind boggling, for me at least since I was a soldier for all his life until last year. I came into the conversation because Vivica called for me and told Xavier to repeat what he just told her: "When I grow up, I want to be a soldier like Daddy so I can kill people."

Go to the link for the rest and more.

Shameless request for recommendations to greatest page. So many need to be aware of what "we" are truly up against. "It ain't goin to be easy".

[iamahaingttta]

14. I believe that the history books from 2222...

... will say that the United States of America was the most violent and wasteful nation-state in the history of the world. And yet, from all this violence emerged a system that finally managed to allow the human species an escape from the horrors of nature and the cycles of boom and bust suffering. All it took was the rendering and removal of 3/4 of humanity, and the Corporate control of all the planet's resources.

Their children will sing songs about them...

[mwb970]

30. I do wonder how this time will look in the distant future.

I imagine future historians will have to wrestle with the question of how America collapsed so quickly and why the people let it happen.

I can picture some little kid asking, "But weren't there some good people in America then? Didn't they see what was happening? Why didn't they stop it?"

I wonder what the answer will be.

[liveoaktx]

15. I watched "Lord of War" movie the other night and it got me thinking the

same thing. This Bush mafia is nothing new, it's just resurfaced with an "in your face" vengeance.

[blm]

21. They could because they bought control of most broadcast media to

control the perceptions of the American public. The media Gore faced in 2000 and Kerry faced in 2004 were the most fascist forwarding media in this nation's history.

[Citrene]

25. I believe it is the "in your face" that I find to be most disturbing.

It is as though the waters are constantly being tested for just how much they can get away with and so far, so good. If we don't stop them soon, but hey, I already gave up.

There is no stopping these sociopathic criminals driven by greed.

[never cry wolf]

16. Interesting thread

A nice reminder of what we're up against.

[blm]

20. Because Clinton LET THE BOOKS BE CLOSED and had no interest in

keeping the stories of IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning alive in his administration and in the press. Focking DUMBASS!

[Citrene]

22. He wasn't a dumb ass. Look up CFR, Council on Foreign Relations.

Then take a leap to Bildergberg and who was there this last couple of years.

Just more of the same.

on edit,
Forgot to add the Trilateral Commission.

[blm]

23. I think it's both - he was a dumbass to think BushInc would allow him any

peace in office in exchange.

[drduffy]

24. Well, I stand corrected....

thanks for the info. I have never really liked Bill but I didn't realize he enabled those bastards after Poppy pardoned them.

So when IS the Democratic party gonna stop crap like this.....

[Citrene]

43. Not the "Democratic Party". When will a "Party of the People" arise?

Short amount of time left to fix this.

The Dems are not the answer, the Repubs are not the answer. We have to eliminate the power of the corporations.

[savemefromdumbya]

26. ask John Kerry to take up the sword against them again

He was very active in trying to nail them the first time round

[blm]

32. Too bad he had no one helping him in the senate or an internet back then.

All he got was death threats and ostracized by most of DC for years.

[savemefromdumbya]

34. Perhaps the whole thing should be unearthed again

Iran Contra re-visited

[blm]

35. No argument here - one of the reasons I back Kerry over anyone else is due

to the fact that he wants those IranContra and BCCI books opened for public scrutiny. That's why the DC powerstructure dislikes him so intensely.

[savemefromdumbya]

36. Just think if Kerry had been elected....let me rephrase that....

if the election hadn't been stolen from Kerry he would as President had a 'field day' with opening up all the scandal boxes (including the Iran Contra box).

[Little Star]

39. Iran Contra should be revisited

How can we help make that happen?

[savemefromdumbya]

42. Maybe write to John Kerry? Perhaps he could do a town hall meeting

[blm]

49. Clinton and Bush closed the books on IranContra and BCCI.

I seriously believe that we will never see the web exposed unless an open government Democrat takes office and orders the books opened through an executive decree. Historians would rejoice.

[radio4progressives]

27. not enough people have a clue - and the fvcking cm won't report it.

[quiet.american]

28. "We" enjoyed being smugly self-righteous in 2000

Let's face it, when citizens did not take to the streets en masse after Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000, that was the beginning of our end.

Why didn't we take to the streets? Because for the most part, we'd grown fat and complacent under Clinton. The country was in great shape. We weren't at war. Everything was overridingly cool. And far too many of us, including Democrats, were indulging ourselves in feeling all self-righteous over Clinton's affair with Lewinsky, nitpicking Al Gore, believing the media spin, drinking the Kool-Aid.

Most of us here at DU knew what was coming, but look what it's taken to get the rest of the country to snap out of it.

[SoCalDem]

31. Here's why

Once an election is over...any election...there is a push to "come together" and unite behind the newly elected people.. In reality it is necessary in order to have a smooth transition, but it has not happened that way since Eisenhower.. Each party-switch involves little packets of invisible napalm, tucked into every nook & cranny...just waitiung to ignite a firestorm for the successor.. This make the new administration look inept, and makes the public long for the good ole days..

The plan is to campaig permanently and keep anyone who gets elected..off balance..

When the "retiring" president has the power to pardon his own henchmen, this leads to all kinds of mischief.

The new folks just want to get down to business and want as little rancor as possible, so they sweep all the past messes under the rug..

I wrote this a while back...


SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Wed Jul-20-05 06:08 AM
Original message

Now we know the true consequences of "going easy" on Iran Contra


Had the Dems (who DID control both houses of congress) pressed harder, and not contented themselves with the idea that GHWB (the wimp) would be easygoing, and inconsequential...well things would be very different now.,

Had Reagan/Bush gotten their just desserts for Iran Contra, and all the dirt been exposed, they would have left office, fully disgraced..GHWB probably would not have even gotten elected..Carter would be held in higher esteem...and There's no way in HELL that *² would have gotten appointed to the white house

The appointments to the SCOTUS that were made by GHWB would have been made by a democrat..Kennedy..Souter..Thomas would not be on the bench, and we would not be facing a right wing court for the foreseeable future.

The democratic party has always hated "piling on", and has been ready to "forgive and forget".

Look at all the key players in this administration.. Almost all of them have their roots in the Iran Contra Days, Grenada, Panama, and many other republican schemes.

We do ourselves and the country a great disservice when we let the "bad guys" off with a slap on the wrist.

republicans have no shame.. they wear their crimes like badges of honor..and like the energizer bunnies, they just keep on coming back..

This is why we cannot let Rove off the hook, and strong language and actions are necessary..

The only thing that republicans DO understand is PUBLIC HUMILIATION, and jail terms.


If you DO wrong, you need to be punished..not just turned out of office to go lick your wounds until next time

[blm]

38. What you wrote is timeless. Truth is always timeless.

.

[Kansas Wyatt]

33. That's what happens when prior violators of U.S. Law

Are not prosecuted and not held accountable for their illegal actions. And, add to the fact that no official record was ever publicized to the American people as to the depth of the criminal enterprise these people exploited at the expense of the American people. No criminal record, no reason to prevent them from doing it again.

Which is why DEMOCRATS and Republicans must insure that the laws of the United States will be upheld and prosecuted, even if years have passed and the guilty parties are out of power. It may not be healthy for the country at the time, but the future health of the country depends on setting the record straight.

'We The People' do not get any 'Get Out of Jail Free' passes, and neither should representatives and officials of the U.S. Government.

[Jara sang]

40. kick

[Junkdrawer]

44. Direct Answer: Governments are run by those who invest the most time...

and when there are $billions in government contracts to be made, $trillions in taxes to be avoided and $trillions in foreign investments to be "protected", guess who is the first to volunteer?

BTW: Do ya think the above is enough motivation to throw a few elections? Then join the tinfoil hat brigade!