The hell with impeachment - it is time for another American Revolution

[Ugnmoose]

As far as I am concerned we are now governed by a modern day King George, who has unilaterally chosen to run the government in any manner he sees fit, mostly to enrich all of his cronies and financial backers. He cares none for you or I other than to pay taxes to keep his largesse in tact so he can continue to steal us all blind. In 1775 the colonies revolted against the reign of a tyrannical and oppressive King. Sadly 230 years later I believe we are faced with the same choices. Either we continue to live this way or we revolt to take back our government. What we need is a grass-roots effort led by some modern day Patrick Henrys and Thomas Jeffersons to start the snow ball moving down hill. We need to clean up all aspects of our government and make our elected officials truly accountable to us. Or else our democracy will be doomed.

[TahitiNut]

1. I'm more in favor of another French(-style) Revolution.

Where's Madame DeFarge when we need her?

[...of J.Temperance]

16. Will you be playing the role of Robespierre? n/t

[TahitiNut]

23. "Terror is only justice that is prompt, severe and inflexible."

I often think the "Reign of Terror" has been over-rated by historians -- and then again perhaps not. I feel somewhat more kinship with Jean-Paul Marat, born 200 years and 1 month before me, his failing in trusting the wrong woman, Charlotte Corday, having its echo in my own past. As well, I'm finding myself becoming more and more sympathetic to the Jacobins than the Girondists the longer I see the Bushoilinis run rampant.

[...of J.Temperance]

25. The Jacobins brought on the Reign of Terror

In which they executed indiscriminately and injudioiusly their allies (and eventually themselves), thus bringing to an end the failed revolution and, laying the ground work for the tyrannical empire of Napoleon. The Reign of Terror was governance that Joseph McCarthy could only dream about. Not exactly a model of a revolutionary, if you ask me.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

[thereismore]

2. Reading "Declaration of Independence" is a chilling experience.

So much of it applies today. But I am still in favor of a constitutional process as opposed to a revolution.

[mnhtnbb]

3. Trouble is...we have no leaders like P Henry & T Jefferson

[gizmo1979]

10. Very true

we haven't got the great political orators of the past.Kurt Vonnegut maybe but I don't know if he would be up to the fight.The feeling of doom often captures my spirit.

[Mnemosyne]

4. If all else fails...

We will do what we need to do.

:patriot:

[carolinalady]

5. Well, they tax my cigs and wine and I am not throwing either

over the side of the boat--too damn expensive. :7

[Clara T]

6. .

[Peace Patriot]

18. What a great photo, Clara T! I am reminded of Keltic warriors of ancient

times--such beauty and such fire all wrapped up in one! And this one a warrior for PEACE! With eyes like a falcon!

I think you may have captured the spirit of the worldwide peace movement in this one photo--it's radiant.

--------------

See my post below on the remedy.

[radio4progressives]

36. Powerful Photo Clara T! excellent!

[bonito]

39. WOW ! Clara T this picture is worth 10,000 words Perfect.n/t

[Burning Water]

7. Do you have

some secret caches of weapons. That's what it will take, and you are talking sedition, so watch out for the men in black.

[gizmo1979]

11. We need a revolution for the

hearts and minds of the mindless.Someone who can wake the middleclass out of there materialistic stupor.Someone who can ignite the masses.At least a couple athemic tunes would be nice.Even a crappy T-shirt slogan would be nice at this point.

[Burning Water]

19. Sorry.

I thought you were using the word "revolution" seriously, instead of a metaphor for something else.

You're talking about education. My bad.

[DetroitProle]

8. historically...

King George III was, by most accounts, a very decent guy. By all accounts, he was by no means a tyrant. If you'd like to blame someone for the tea tax, which was quite low as it was, blame Lord North.

As a history major, I see few parallels between the real King George III and the current pretender...other than THEY BOTH WENT COMPLETELY BATSHITINSANE.

[enlightenment]

13. Have to agree,

yet, as a history instructor, I think we need the figurehead to rally against, in the same way the colonists did. TJ didn't address the Declaration to Parliament -- he specifically singled out the King.

This isn't to say that the colonists didn't understand where the depredations where coming from; just that those who pushed for revolution understood the need for a single "point of contact."

On a personal level, I've always felt vaguely sorry for George III (only vaguely, mind you). For the toad currently in our White House, not one iota of pity. I don't think he's crazy, just stupid and self-indulgent. I can excuse ignorance; we are all ignorant until we learn. However, if we learn and then IGNORE our knowledge we can't claim ignorance -- at that point it is pure stupidity, born of selfishness and self-indulgence.

That's OUR George, imo!

[joefree1]

9. Hello NSA

How's tricks?

[dave502d]

12. Sorry to say but i think your right. n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

14. The Great New Orleans Lawyer, Judah Phillip Benjamin

<>

Born of English parents, Judah P. Benjamin entered Yale at age fourteen and studied law in New Orleans, where he was admitted to the Bar in 1832. After a successful career in private practice, he was elected to the United States Senate in 1852 as a Whig candidate from Louisiana, but by the end of the decade he had become a Democrat and a strong supporter of James Buchanan. After Abraham Lincoln's election, he became one of the first to call for the secession of the southern states.

Benjamin was not a slave holder - and his writings show that his basis for secession was the tariff system that favored the North. (The Confederate Constitution devotes an inordinate amount of space to the tariff issue).

A close friend of Confederate President Jefferson Davis, Benjamin held several important cabinet posts in the Confederacy, including secretary of war and secretary of state. At the collapse of the Confederacy, Benjamin fled to England, where he practiced law with great success.

He drafted the British Sale of Goods Act which was the precurson of the modern Uniform Commercial Code. He also wrote Benjamin On Sales - a compendium of commercial law.

[enid602]

15. I'm for the establishment of a Second Republic . . . .

. . . to distinguish it from what went wrong with the First.

[Peace Patriot]

17. Our Thomas Jefferson's and Patrick Henry's are out in the provinces,

trying to rid us of Diebold and ES&S election theft machines, the key to the problem, which is NON-TRANSPARENT, BUSHITE-CONTROLLED VOTE TABULATION! And the key to the solution is in the state/local jurisdictions, where the power over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some influence.

Here is the situation: Tom Delay and Bob Ney, two of the biggest Bushite crooks in Congress, are the ones who engineered the $4 billion HAVA electronic voting boondoggle, by which two Bushite corporations, Diebold and ES&S, gained control over the tabulation of our votes, with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it--no audit/recount controls (not even a meager 'paper trail' requirement), no controls on partisan vendors, no control on lavish lobbying and "revolving door" employment, no control on secret industry 'testing' of the machines, and underfunded regulators. They thus completely corrupted our election system all over the country, in a short period of time (2002-2004) and made it NON-TRANSPARENT (the only kind of election that Bush and Bushites could have 'won' in 2004--with nearly 60% of the American people against Bush's war, from way back before the invasion, and huge numbers, up in the 60% to 70% range, opposing every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, over several years; for instance, 63% opposed to torture "under any circumstances," 90% upset about the huge budget deficit, and so on).

Our Democratic Party leadership was silent and useless in preventing the takeover of our election system by private Bushite corporations--likely out of corruption, fear or ignorance (or combinations thereof). And the war profiteering corporate news monopolies are covering it up. (They were COMPLICIT in the 2004 stolen election--they FALSIFIED their exit poll numbers (Kerry won) to force their exit polls to FIT the results of Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae! --so they have multiple reasons for blackholing the story of WHO is counting our votes in secret.)

And let me tell you who these people are who are 'counting' all our votes behind a curtain of secrecy: Diebold, whose CEO throughout this period was Wally O'Dell, Bush/Cheney campaign chair in Ohio, and major fundraiser (Bush "Pioneer") who promised in writing to "deliver" Ohio's electoral votes to Bush/Cheney in 2004; and ES&S, a spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture) which was initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also donated one million dollars to the nutso 'christian' fascists at the Chalcedon Foundation (who tout capital punishment for homosexuals, among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship--they are run by two brothers, Todd and Bob Urosevich.

These are the people who 'counted' 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, with secret formulae--an incestuous monopoly with deep ties to the Bush junta and to rightwing causes

Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny. And that's what we've got. King George III would be envious of this kind of control over America's leadership.

We have what may be a brief window of opportunity to demand and achieve transparent elections at the state/local level. The junta's Dept. of 'Justice' is even now maneuvering legally to remove local control (in legal cases in Pennsylvania--see www.voterpa.us). Big fights are on-going in many states--by the most dedicated patriots this country has ever seen, ordinary people, voters, citizens, grass roots groups, some good lawyers, and a few--far too few--political leaders (Dem state senator Debra Bowen in Calif. is one--see www.debrabowen.com), to get rid of these machines and restore our right to vote.

ACT WHILE YOU CAN! IF YOU WANT TO SAVE THIS COUNTRY, HELP THROW DIEBOLD, ES&S AND ALL ELECTION THEFT MACHINES INTO 'BOSTON HARBOR' NOW!

-------------------------------

Some resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake)

Also of interest:

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy!)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

-----

There is one big thing that our malfeasant Party could do to atone for its sins--and that is to fund INDEPENDENT exit polls in 2006! Demand that they do it!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

[Cleita]

24. Best idea here.

Fix how we do elections and the rest will fall into place.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

27. I agree, but worry that anything short of...

...some kind of revolution will not be sufficient to rid ourselves of the likes of Diebold, ES&S, Triad and the others. I'd love to be wrong about this, but put yourself in Dubya's shoes---The man's a crooked, illegitimate, war criminal and everybody knows it. Neocons absolutely must hang on to the reigns of power in order to prevent war crimes trials and other forms of justice and there's literally nothing they won't do if they deem it necessary.

[Peace Patriot]

34. Oh, yes, they are hanging onto Diebold and ES&S with teeth and talons.

No question about it. They cannot win transparent elections. That's WHY Tom Delay and Bob Ney concocted the $4 billion HAVA boondoggle, to completely corrupt and take over our election system, which they have very successfully done in the absence of any protest by our corrupt, fearful and in some cases stupid (insane?) party leadership (and of course with the complicity of the war profiteering corporate news monopolies).

The keystone of this election fraud system: Vote tabulation with "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it--and with virtually no audit/recount controls. This fraud was put in place in a short period of time (2002-2004), in the rush to sell these highly insecure, hackable, electronic voting systems to the states--a veritable "gold rush" at that $4 billion--with no audit/recount controls (not even a 'paper trail' requirement), no controls on lavish lobbying and 'revolving door' employment, no controls on secret industry 'testing' of the machines, no controls on partisan vendors, and underfunded regulation. And the two biggest beneficiaries are Diebold and ES&S--who together 'counted' 80% of the nation's vote in 2004, behind a veil of secrecy--corporations with close ties to Bush and to extreme rightwing causes.

So, the gauntlet is thrown. Can ordinary citizens, organizing very nearly by word-of-mouth (with the internet as our "Committees of Correspondence), with virtually no help from any of the powers-that-be, realize what has happened to their right to vote, and seize this mechanism of our sovereignty back from fascist control, in what may be a narrowing window of opportunity, while the power over election systems still resides at the state/local level?

The odds were against Washington, Jefferson and that lot, you know--as they are against us, now. But how I see it is this: WE MUST TRY. If there is a chance to get back our right to vote, we must go for it. It is not only the mechanism by which we exercise our sovereignty as a people, it is the fundamental mechanism of change and the means by which the will of the people is determined. Without it, we cannot change anything else--or not easily. And without it, violent change is the only change possible. This is what Jefferson & Co. had in mind--a peaceful revolution, change without a shot fired, with EVERY election. And this startling idea took fire in the world and has become the norm of good government.

It is creating an amazing revolution in Latin America right now--based largely on TRANSPARENT elections (for which many people and groups have worked very hard, for a long time). We have lost that capacity here, to peacefully vote the bastards out of office. But we have some things going for us--one of them being our long, stable tradition of democracy; also, our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, which lay down the principles of government in which we believe for all to see (such that many of the egregious violations of them by the Bush junta are also apparent). And we are, at present, relatively prosperous, compared to a lot of other societies. Most of us are not yet scrabbling for food and shelter. That may come. (That may even be the plan--re: the conditions in Germany in the early 1930s that set the stage for Hitler's rise). But we still have some leisure--some time to be citizens--and a CHANCE to turn it around, a chance to fight for our democracy, on the only front that matters right now: our right to vote. We have the ability to embarrass and shame and drive from office local/state election officials who have been bought by these Bushite electronic voting corporations, or who have made unwise or cowardly decisions with regard to them. We CAN change this, and many are already trying--with some successes--in an election reform movement that is still in its infancy.

The Bush junta currently DOES NOT HAVE the legal power to dictate election systems--that still resides with the states--and there is a loophole in HAVA, which DOES NOT REQUIRE electronic voting. We can throw these machines out. We can go back to paper ballots. We can do all absentee ballot or mail-in ballot voting, and really muck up the fraudulent electronic voting system. We can also demand that the Democratic Party fund badly needed INDEPENDENT exit polls (it's the least they can do, after selling our right to vote away, out of fear, corruption, or stupidity). We need data, evidence--for what promises to be a lengthy and bloody battle in every jurisdiction, well beyond 2006, I would guess.

--------------------------

Some resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake, including state's rights over election systems)

Also of interest:

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy!)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

--------------------------------------------------------------

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

43. Exceptionally good post, more than worthy of it's own thread. nt.

[Cleita]

20. I'm not for revolution, like with guns and ammo, but I am

for a national movement that will demand the resignation and removal of the unelected fraud and his cabinet. We really should do this in the interest of honoring and restoring the protections of our Constitution.

We then need to work hard to end corruption in our government and make it very hard in the future for any politician to get away with the criminal acts that this cabal has gotten away with. The reason that we are here at this place today is because the criminals in Nixon's administration got away with a slap on the wrist. Now they are back in our government and our media, more evil and corrupt than ever.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. The Concept Is Novel, But What Is Your Actual Proposal?

We all want to take our country and government back and have them accountable to us. But what is your proposal on how we go about doing it? I didn't see the actual plan in the post though I agreed completely with the ideal.

[GuvWurld]

32. Blueprint For Peaceful Revolution

Blueprint For Peaceful Revolution (.pdf)

[Deja Q]

22. Major wars in history have impacted our freedoms...

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/analysis.aspx?id=4210

The so-called "War on terror" is the latest.

It's a revolving door. Full to the letter one day; the next day you'd better be careful of what you say or at least provide enough detail to get your point across without boring your readers to the point where they'd lock you up out of abject tedium...

Yes, it may all be overreaction by the government.

And, yes, it might be the other way around as well.

The point is that we need to think and not come to too many inferences or other premature conclusions.

Experts warn that anonymous speech on the Internet, once a staple of the democratic new medium, could become a thing of the past.(18)The Internet has already been blamed for other tragedies, such as the Columbine High School shooting in Littleton, Colo., and the Oklahoma City bombing. Terrorists do communicate using anonymous online speech — but so do many millions of innocent Americans.

Of course, it's easy to track people down on the internet. The MPAA tells us so when knocking out all those bitorrent sites. :) Therefore the talk of "anonymous online speech" is ersatz.

Things always turn around. They have before. They will again.

[niallmac]

33. ...but weren't there 'turner arounders' involved in the turning?n/t

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

26. NOW WE'RE TALKIN'. nt.

[gaspee]

28. I'm all for

A nonviolent revolution. A revolution in thinking. A revolution of the people and to completely turn over our elected officials.

My slogan is -- "Not One incumbant!"

The problem is getting people involved and aware.

(I am not even going to vote for Reed (RI) when he comes up for reelection and he votes as if I were sitting there doing the voting myself. I haven't disagreed with him on one issue in the past few years and I am *still* not voting for him.

NOT ONE INCUMBANT (including local officials)

The way to get rid of the corruption is to get rid of the career politicians and businessmen.

We need citizens running this country, not the oligarchy. Period.

[Earth_First]

29. Viva la Revolution!

[Initech]

30. We should tie George down, hold him at sword point...

And force him to sign a document similiar to the Magna Carta that gives the power of this country back to the people and not to the special interest groups.

[...of J.Temperance]

31. We have a method already to achieve your goal

No "swords" necessary. It's called "amending the Constitution". Do you not believe in the Constitution?

[Initech]

41. Yeah but at this rate, an amendment like that would require use of force.

To get approval for, anyways.

[Zomby Woof]

35. America is too lazy

It's too much of a romanticized fantasy anyway.

People care more about who is going to win on American Idol, or whether they have more bells and whistles on their ipods than their neighbors.

And Patrick Henry? Are you aware of what a reactionary hypocrite he was? He would be right at home with the theocrats running things today.

As for "democracy", that has been dead for years. You can't get back what you never had.

If you want to run America, you need a LOT of money, and media pull.

[radio4progressives]

37. kicked and recommended..

:applause::applause::applause:

[...of J.Temperance]

38. YEAH!!!! Bang those pots and pans....bang 'em!!!!

n/t

[Orsino]

40. I'm afraid that it's inevitable...

...no matter which party wins elections. I hope that revolution can be averted through peaceful reforms, but I'm not optimistic. , and will be outta here, I think, before it all falls apart.

[Neil Lisst]

42. Impeachment? No, ELECTIONS!!

I agree with those who are concerned about our voting processes, but even so, the task is to field and elect House nominees of the party in November.

All this talk about impeachment is nonsense until Dems hold the House by a comfortable majority.

And talk of more than impeachment? More nonsense. We have a system to elect people, and we have gotten our asses kicked at it for the past ten years in the House. Time to fix that problem the old fashioned way - elections.

[Moderator]

44. Locking

DU should not be used to incite violence of any type.