Food Stamp story - Should I be Pissed?

[neverevergivein]

My wife and I were just at the grocery store. As we were checking out, there was a lady struggling to run her Food Stamp card through the debit reader. This held up the line a good bit, but no one complained. The cashier went way out of her way to help the lady out, but after that was settled, the customer complained that she should not have to bag her own groceries. The cashier then went and bagged the ladies groceries for her. All of this annoyed me. But when we checked out and went into the parking lot, I see the lady getting into her Lexus with a private school sticker on the back of her car. I am seriously ticked. Does this make me a closet Freeper??? I have family that NEEDED assistance in times of hardship, but they never stayed on it for more than a year. Never would it cross our minds to abuse the system, and yes, I consider this instance a clear case of abuse. Just wondering if I'm missing something or am I okay to be ticked a bit?

[daleanime]

1. It's not just O.K...

to be upset, it's the proper reaction-if you follow up. Did you get a lic. #?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. there will always be someone who abuses the system

but think about how our CEO's abuse us and the lady with foodstamps and lexus wont seem so bad...could also have been a borrowed car or some other real reason...one never knows

[movonne]

49. This is how I feel...yes I get angry at abuse of the system, but I look

at what the corporations are doing and until there is no abuse there I will not be as upset with the people that take advantage...just think Haliburton...

[hfojvt]

55. when I applied for food stamps

I was denied because I had bought land for $4500 ten years before. However, a car worth $5000 and the equity in a home are except from asset restrictions and so is personal property such as DVD and CD collections. I am not sure how long it would take for a lexus to depreciate to $5000.

[China_cat]

3. Possible to give her the benefit of a doubt

and allow that the car might be borrowed?

Not to say that abuse doesn't happen, just that sometimes looks can be deceiving if we don't have the whole story.

[FormerDittoHead]

11. Yes - she might be a housekeeper using her bosses' car...

I'm all over welfare cheats, both corporate and individual...

But it's also possible she's a low paid mom working at a job which provides her a car.

I knew a saleperson who didn't make that much, but not having to buy a car of his own helped out.

Just keep in mind that if she lied in the course of getting those stamps (I guess they're not stamps anymore, eh?) she broke the law, and there's any number of ways she could get caught.

[China_cat]

33. I was just thinking about the days before

we were able to buy a car of our own and the neighbor would let us drive hers. Which was always a very new, nice vehicle. People often misunderstood because of it. (We weren't on food stamps but others would think we were much better off than we were)

[FreedomAngel82]

78. Or someone in her family is letting her borrow the car

That happens too. So as someone else said first appearances aren't everything. We don't know the story of why this woman has food stamps.

[hang a left]

65. Or perhaps she runs a foster home for children or something

like that where she is allocated food stamps.

[China_cat]

87. Yes, so many other scenarios

that we should be ashamed of ourselves when the very FIRST thought we have is 'abuse'.

[OhioBlue]

4. if they are abusing the system, I would be upset

but, I would hesitate to jump to conclusions - the car could belong to someone else.

[ryan_cats]

113. Good point, I didn't think of that.

Good point, I didn't think of that. It's probably better to give her the benefit of the doubt. Thank you for reminding me of that.

[BeTheChange]

5. Oh goodness..

I guess my reply is.. what does it bother you? Directly that woman doesnt harm you, let's worry about not killing babies in Iraq before we give a damn about someone who steals 100 bucks from the government every month.

Im reminded of the story of the talents in the Bible.

[FreedomAngel82]

89. And this government is stealing from us all the time

[laylah]

6. I, too, would be

a bit miffed at the obvious abuse this woman was visiting upon the system, making her reprehensible behavior reflect on those that REALLY need it. No, I don't believe you are a closet Freep.

BTW, Welcome :toast:

Jenn

[neverevergivein]

9. My wife - who is apolitical - was ticked as well

Obviously, as some have mentioned, I don't know the WHOLE story, but she had two kids with her, and they seemed the age to be students at the school represented on the car. I'm as upset at the attitude this lady showed to the low waged cashier as I am at the apparent abuse of the social assistance she seems to be abusing. But thanks for the affirmation for my concerns, and the welcome! Good to be here.

[Just Me]

74. You should avoid making assumptions.

You should avoid taking one circumstance and using it to create a reality that does not exist.

You should avoid projecting your struggles and issues upon others who struggle, too.

You should avoid allowing those who MAY be abusing charity to darken your own ability to be charitable.

You should look at YOURSELF and examine YOUR FEELINGS about what you observed rather than seek to displace those feelings upon situations over which you don't even possess all the facts.

Maybe, this situation which upset you has much MUCH more to do with you and your life than it does with the situation?

Maybe.

Maybe, you feel like you've been deprived of just rewards or receipts or recognition in your life and that situation inflamed your own feelings even though the situation has absolutely NOTHING to do with you or your life.

Just some thoughts. :hi:

[DelawareValleyDem]

85. I worked at a market for many years

and I would be glad if that abuse was the worst I ever saw or experienced. Also, it was ALWAYS the customer's option whether or not they helped to bag, regardless of how they paid.

[alfredo]

133. Most women getting food stamps are in that situation because of

a deadbeat dad.

I was a mail man in a poor section of town. Welfare and food stamp mothers were overwhelmingly because of a deadbeat dad. He either left for a new model, or is in prison. Some wives got the car and child support awarded by the judge. That Lexus and two kids might be all she has left to her name.

[Terran1212]

7. Lexus and private school and food stamps = does not need to happen

It makes it easier to demonize real poor.

[izzybeans]

8. Sure just as long as you realize this is an anomaly.

Your family is more the norm.

[skygazer]

10. How do you know it's her car?

I'm always amazed at the people who get so self-righteously worked up over the mere pittance of their tax dollars that go to help the poor and hungry in this country but who don't blink an eye at the amount that goes to feed the war machine.

It's NOT a clear case of abuse - you know next to nothing about this woman and if someone who paid with a gold card asked the checker to bag their groceries, would you even notice? Why shouldn't a poor person get the same service?

My advice? Mind your own business - she probably borrowed the car from a friend or relative because she probably can't afford her own.

[Raydawg1234]

63. Or the car is used and it came with the sticker

[Jo March]

Or she had it before the world fell apart around her

I know someone who still has an ankle-length fur coat from "better days." She holds onto it to remind herself that times weren't always bad.

[fishwax]

12. it might not have been her car

:shrug:

appearances can be deceiving.

Abuses happen, I'm sure, but are very much the exception.

[bluestateguy]

13. Until you know the whole story, you should reserve judgement

Maybe she was an abuser, but who knows? She could have been borrowing the car from a friend, or an employer or a relative who is more well off and has been helping the lady.

Or maybe the car has long ago been paid off and was bought by her when times were better.

We don't know, it's just like all of those panhandlers who claim to be Vietnam veterans. Some are, but others have been documented as sheer con artists and liars.

[wryter2000]

67. Heck I didn't have a car for two years

Someone used to loan me his when he went out of town. It had a Jesus fish on the bumper. That was NOT me.

[countingbluecars]

14. Perhaps she was shopping

for someone else-doing a good deed for a sick or elderly person.

[KingFlorez]

15. Think of it this way

She might have been one of those Freepers always complaining about this kind of stuff and was trying to pull it herself.

[MuseRider]

16. I would gladly support a few

abuses (if this is really one of them) to supply the support that so many need.

One comment. I have never seen anyone willingly call attention to themselves while using assistance to pay for anything. Most people would really rather not be using it so this story just does not ring true to me. I am not doubting you but could it have been someone helping out a friend or relative?

[okasha]

17. She could well be cheating.

On the other hand, she could be recently unemployed and without income. Everything you mention about her manner suggests that she was unused to using the card, very possibly embarassed at her situation, and struggling to maintain her former status in the eyes of others, if not herself.

[neverevergivein]

20. Best reply yet

I have no problem with anyone who views this differently than I do. But I absolutely know what I saw, and my gut reaction throughout the viewing of her really irked me. But your scenario does seem quite plausible, maybe her way of staying "above" those who regularly use the card???? I told my wife not to let it bother her, and have tried to act as if it doesn't bother me. But I am upset at the fodder it gives other people who want to do away with social programs altogether, and I kind of want to go back to the store and give the cashier girl a tip just for putting up with such beligerance. But thanks for your thoughts. I'm still bothered, but not so angry anymore.

[0007]

26. Good observation!

[Sydnie]

28. that is how I would probably have taken it too

I don't get the wanting her groceries bagged for her, from a personal point of view. I prefer to bag my own groceries everytime. It stems back to a time when money was really tight but I spent $4 on a container of blackberries for my son who just loved them and begged for them (he could have begged for things that would have been worse for him) and I gave in a purchased them for him. While dealing with him and watching the cash register total, I didn't notice that they placed canned goods in the same bag as those berries. He still ate them but I was pissed to find them crushed in the bag all the same.

From that day forward, I bag my own.

[FearofFutility]

137. Or she may have been shopping for someone else

and using their food stamp card to pay. I've seen that many times. Somehow I don't think she would have qualified for food stamps if she owned a Lexus and was able to send her children to private school.

[philosophie_en_rose]

18. No.

As others have pointed out, it might not be her car. Even if it is, perhaps she's just lost her job or is in a shelter for battered women. There's no reason to judge her based on the car - even if it were hers. Maybe she's a nanny borrowing her employer's car or maybe her children are in a private school under scholarships.

I don't see why she would annoy you. It's not her fault that the card had a problem or that the store only had one clerk available. Frankly, I'd be aggravated that the cashier didn't bag her groceries automatically. Why wouldn't the clerk help her with the card? Why wouldn't the clerk provide the same service to her that he or she provided to anyone?

On edit: I don't think you need a full evidentiary hearing to make judgments. However, I believe that people in need deserve the benefit of the doubt. If your story happened, there's just not enough information to make a judgment about her need.

[KyndCulture]

19. Maybe it wasn't her car?

[earth mom]

21. Why does this post remind me of Reagan and his welfare mom

crap from the '80s? :eyes:

[philosophie_en_rose]

25. Because welfare money = enough to buy a Lexus.

Didn't you know? It's like winning the lotto. ;)

[Jo March]

84. Exactly. I'm hoping to get on food stamps so I can go on vacation

somewhere really nice. :eyes:

[LostinVA]

109. I would LOVE to go to New Zealand

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Cause this is the same story Reagan told.

[leftstreet]

37. Except he had the woman driving a Cadillac

:eyes:

What a bullshit thread.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Yes I remember it well

Too bad we have to see that bullshit here on DU.

[MADem]

44. The phrase he used was welfare QUEEN

...and I must say, he delighted in the racial implication thereof. The person at the center of the divisive meme was a Caddy driving generously endowed black woman who was a flat out thief: she was caught collecting a bunch of welfare checks under assumed names, IIRC. The GOP spent a good deal of time and energy pushing the idea that it was large black women who were doing all the welfare cheating, egged on by their no-good partners, and "they" (always that vague "they") were the reason that welfare was "out of control" and "costing the taxpayers far too much."

No one wanted to hear the facts, especially about the racial makeup of those collecting public assistance, the reasons people sought help, everything from job loss to family or personal illness to spouses running and hiding after getting the crap beaten out of them, because they didn't fit the hidden agenda (which, to put it bluntly, was "BE AFRAID OF BLACK PEOPLE--if they aren't robbing you, they are stealing from the treasury!").

It was certainly not a fine moment in our history, the way the leader of the nation gleefully and enthusiastically, without any shame whatsoever, advanced that bullshit idea.

[earth mom]

135. Thanks-I couldn't remember the exact term Reagan used...

but then again, back in the '80s, I paid as little attention to Reagan as possible since his b.s. was way too much to stomach. :puke:

[MADem]

140. He humiliated us as a nation with that tactic, and many others, too

He sure was the King of the Hill when it came to sleazy politics...and he did it so much better than the Monkey. He managed to keep a teflon wall around him, and the shit never stuck to him.

He was an asshole, but a way better politician than the wee cowboy.

[LostinVA]

83. Read my mind

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. Your story sounds like the kind Reagan used to tell

However, it is actually quite difficult to get food stamps. You can't have more than a certain amount of money in the bank and you can't own a car worth more than a certain amount.

One of my graduate school friends tried to get on food stamps, because she was having trouble affording food, but since her money came in the form of a fellowship at the beginning of the semester, she had "too much money" to qualify, even though it worked out to sub-poverty level if divided up month by month.

[LostinVA]

90. In 1990, I was laid off, made very little on unemployment

had LOTS of bills (student loans, rent, medical bills), and I couldn't get one cent in food stamps -- and it's harder now.

[spinbaby]

23. I see a lot of food-stamp users at our grocery

I don't think they're called food stamps anymore--not sure what the program is called but it involves a card. I notice that the users of these cards are almost invariably young women with children. The store I frequent is a unionized grocery store (Giant Eagle) that tends to have higher prices than other local stores but tends to paradoxically also have a lot of food-program users. This mystified me until I got a chance to talk to a young woman who shopped there using the program (she has a toddler, a part-time job, and a husband who delivers pizzas). She said she likes to shop at the Giant Eagle because it's the only store in town that doesn't make her feel bad for using the food program. She didn't go into specifics about what the other stores did to make her feel bad, but even at the bottom of the ladder, people want to be treated with respect.

I'd rather that a few people abuse the system without being caught than people go hungry.

[fishwax]

40. nice post

:thumbsup:

I totally agree with your last sentence, and I enjoyed the anecdote about the union grocery.

[RoyGBiv]

114. Making them feel bad ...

One store I once frequented had cashiers say over the loudspeaker system, "Code 3 on register ..." whatever the number was. I had no idea what this meant, but my curiosity got the better of me once, so I asked. This was the code for an Access card purchase, i.e. food stamps. It required "manager approval" on the sales slip apparently.

I haven't shopped there since.

There is no need for this sort of thing. I inquired rather indignantly about this practice, and the shift manager told me it was required "by law," which was complete BS. (As I side note, I am always amazed at how stupid people are when attempting to pass off lies like this to people they don't know. I mean, I *could* have been some sort of inspector that would have taken him to task. As it was, I was just someone who at the time worked in a store that accepted food stamps, so I knew it was BS.)

I don't know why exactly they did this. I suspect they may have had problems with employees giving discounts to friends and relatives by pressing the "tax exempt" button on the register, and that it was this that needed manager approval. But, a better way of doing this could have been devised that didn't announce to everyone in the store that the person at the register was poor and needed help just to feed their kids.

What I've seen some stores do to people who use WIC can be even worse. I went into one that had a "WIC aisle," which was as good as saying ... this is where all you poor people shop. It even had a separate cooler with "generic" milk products, which was another idiotic, demeaning thing since WIC doesn't require you to buy a certain brand of milk. The whole thing seemed somehow segregationist.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. LOL Reagan told the SAME story 20+ years ago

It wasn't true then and I would suspect it still isn't true today.

[neverevergivein]

31. Yeah, I guess I just made the story up...

or mistook the Gremlin for a Lexus, or just wanted to insult people for fun. Perhaps this isn't a good place for me to vent. Sorry to insult you with my deceit.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[murray hill farm]

59. Well...wait just a minute here....

no need to jump all over this guy here....sure, maybe it wasnt her car, maybe she just lost her job...maybe she was just doing a favor for a friend....but on the other hand, maybe she wasnt...maybe she was just a person cheating the system...and taking money that is meant for people who really do need it...and being rude and brash about it. It sounds like everyone in line was supportive of her, the cashier was supportive of her..and still she was rude and nasty...and then she goes out to her lexus..what does a lexus cost? For all the people who really do need food stamps and who honestly need them..even if it turned out that this woman did, i still think u should have written down the license plate number and turned her in...in so many ways this woman was a slap in the face of honest people who do need food stamps...if you turned her in and the car was not hers....nothing could possible happen to her...since the plate would not go to her name.

[jpak]

58. I bet it was a *pink* Lexus too - LOL

How come I don't believe any of this shit????

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. Cause you are smart

:)

[SoCalDem]

29. Our pal Ann strikes again... ( Ann Ecdotal)

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. LOL

You appear to be of the same opinion I am regarding this post.

:popcorn: Want some?

[Warpy]

30. That Lexus may be one of the reason she's ON food stamps

and represents a huge debt incurred when she was in a stable marriage to a man making a good salary. Either he's working at Walmart or the marriage went sour, you can bet on that. That Lexus now represents a debt and dumping it would not pay the entire balance owed off because of that "drive it off the lot" instant depreciation. She's also carrying around that sense of entitlement she's always had, hence the whine about bagging her own groceries. She's not having them delivered any more, though.

It always galls me no end when some right winger points out poor people here have TV sets and VCR or DVD players. They got that junk BEFORE the job got outsourced. I have a computer because I got it BEFORE I became unemployed 2 1/2 years ago. I have picked it apart and fixed it many times, but I still am a poor person with a computer. And a TV. And a VCR. And a DVD.

We're going to see a lot more newly poor people in McMansions and driving luxury cars, so we might as well get used to the idea. I already know people who traded up to a bigger piece of real estate every few years as an investment who furnish them with resin lawn furniture because every dime is going into the mortgage. They are one paycheck away from poverty.

I think your look of shock and dismay when she went into her dowager duchess act about bagging those groceries got the point across, though. I doubt her sense of entitlement will last much longer, to be replaced with humiliation and despair.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. It is infuriating to think that some people feel the poor don't deserve

nice things.

No, let's just keep them poor and not let them OWN anything of value. They chose to be poor after all. They can choose to be not poor when they are good and ready. :sarcasm:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Not to mention the fact that

you can get a basic DVD player for under $50 and they practically give VCRs away these days.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I bought a DVD player for $20 a few weeks ago

If I was on food stamps, would it have been wrong for me to buy it?

[Mabus]

76. Not at all

Besides, you can rent movies cheaper than going to them in the theater. Then there is a bigger selection to choose from and if you don't like the movie you don't feel as bad for not watching all of it.

[hfojvt]

71. exactly what I was gonna say

that you can get a computer, TV, VCR, and DVD player for under $900 which might be one month's rent in some places. Of course I bought my DVD player after I was fired and while I was on unemployment.

[mongo]

51. Well said

Just because there are "limits" on assets before you can qualify for food stamps doesn't mean you couldn't be driving a lexus and qualify -- if you owed more on it than it was worth.

Same with living in a McMansion.

It's funny how people want you to give up everything you've spent your whole life earning -- to qualify for TEMPORARY assistance.

Think about how much this lady most likely paid into the system before needing it.

[Left Is Write]

129. I was once viciously attacked by such a right-winger type...

My husband was laid off when I was pregnant with our son. When I was seven months pregnant, I joined a discussion on a message board about what stay-at-home wives/mothers could do during hard economic times when their husbands were unemployed.

I wrote that I had trimmed our budget down by reducing our energy use, scaling back at the grocery store, and shopping at discount/thrift shops.

Someone suggested I get a job. I said at seven months pregnant, it would be difficult for me to get a job because any potential employer would know that I'd be at least taking a leave in a few weeks, if not quitting altogether. Besides, I also had a toddler at home to take care of. If I were out working a minimum wage job, my husband would be at home caring for the toddler and thus NOT out making contacts and doing a job search for himself.

This person suggested that I was lazy, looking for excuses not to work, and burdening my husband. This person went on further to say that maybe I should stop "cranking out babies" I couldn't afford to support.

Nowhere did I say we could not afford to support our children. When we conceived our son, we did not have a crystal ball telling us his company was going to dissolve the division he worked for.

When another board member tried to defend me, saying our personal finances were no one else's business, the attacker said it became her business when I showed up at her door asking for a handout (read: welfare).

She assumed that because my husband had been laid off that we would be applying for assistance (we did not, though we would have if necessary). However, he had gotten a decent severance package, we had a few months' worth of living expenses in our savings account, AND he was eligible for unemployment compensation. With careful budgeting, we were going to be fine, even if his job search took quite a while.

I explained this to the attacker, annoyed the entire time that I felt like I HAD to defend myself from her ridiculous statements. She persisted in attacking, going so far as to suggest I shouldn't have gotten pregnant (even though my husband was employed when I conceived) or that I should have gotten an abortion.

[Gormy Cuss]

34. I've seen stories like this before.

In fact I see variations of this story about once a month. It used to be that confusion over the paper food stamps were the reason the line was held up. Now that the cards are run through the debit reader the anecdote usually involves the rich lady holding up the line by trying to buy disallowed items like liquor.

I'm not sure that I would have recognized it as a clear case of abuse the way you did. It's a shame that you didn't confront the Lexus-driving woman and her private school attending children in the parking lot. Perhaps you could have made a citizen's arrest.

[etherealtruth]

36. I'll try to make a long protracted story short ...

I was a "stay at home mom" ... Got divorced from a successful (financially) man ...
It was a very bitter very contentious divorce ... Initially my children and i were impoverished ... as part of the divorce I was granted "my car" which was an "expensive" luxury auto ... my ex-spouse was ordered to make the car payments, insurance payments, etc. for 1 year (selling the car, for complicated reasons, was not reasonable at that time ...as soon as it was, I ditched the auto for an old Ford).

I did not apply for food stamps (my family helped) but, most assuredly we would have qualified for them ... During that time period I would have been seen in "expensive" well tailored clothing, as would my children ... at first and casual glances we certainly gave an impression of affluence ...

I did NOT know how I was going to feed, clothe or shelter my children at that time.
We were essentially destitute for about a year (former spouse refused to pay child support or alimony for a while ... anyone familiar with the Friend of the Court system understands that this is not generally quickly resolved)

You don't know this woman's story.

It doesn't make you a freeper, but ...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. I know of a similar case, only in that case it was a husband

who didn't want to be "burdened" with a disabled child.

[etherealtruth]

72. There's a little more similarity to my story than I'd like to admit ...

The truly sad part (not necessarily for me, but for anyone in a similar situation) is that my children and I were very desperate and I just could not bring my self to apply for any assistance because I was so ashamed and because of attitudes and judgments of others that are less than kind. How many people suffer needlessly because of the social stigma?

[RoyGBiv]

41. The Card ...

This is a guess, but it just underlines what others have said. You don't know the whole story.

Depending on the state and your particular set of social service laws and policies, that card she was using may or may not have been a "food stamp" card. In Oklahoma it's the Access card, which replaced giving out physical "food stamps" several years ago. However, it replaced a number of other things as well, such as the method of disbursing child support payments collected by DHS from a parent who had to be taken to court and forced to pay. That parent's wages are garnished by the state, and the payments are made to the child care provider via an Access card. Grocery stores (and convenience stores) tend to be the only retail establishments that accept these cards, so the recipients tend to use them there even if they aren't receiving food stamps. In OK, people who receive payments this way can also go to an ATM and take out cash from their Access account. If you really want to get irritated, hang out at a convenience store sometime and watch someone use an Access card to buy beer and cigarettes. It's perfectly legal if they are receiving a cash payment of some variety distributed through the card.

Now, her attitude toward the cashier is a different story, but she's going to have to get in line with that one. People in general seem to have a tendency to treat retail workers as though they were the scum of the earth.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

43. It is highly unlikely that this was her car

My daughter and son in law, who live with us at the moment, have gotten food stamps in the past when they lived in their own place. (He is a full-time student, she is a full-time stay at home mother). As soon as they moved in with us, our household income became theirs and the food stamps were withdrawn. It has been my experience that they are VERY stringent about qualifying and they check motor vehicle records. Owning a Lexus would certainly have raised a red flag and they would have checked it out.

I would think she works for a family with the Lexus and the private schools. You can't afford private schools on the amount the Food Stamps office allows you to make. Period. And you couldn't pay the insurance on the Lexus.

[MADem]

52. Actually, it probably WAS her car (here's MY scenario!!)

And she got to keep it in the settlement, and her husband is still paying for the private school for the kiddies. He showers the kids with toys and bullshit video games, just to piss the ex off. He was a mean sumbitch. He has a new girlfriend now, half his ex-wife's age, and he needs his money for her boob job.

But she's a former Republican with no skills, trying to find a job, because her wealthy husband has stashed all the cash offshore and she had a lousy lawyer. She got "stuff" (the house, the car) and NO CASH. She doesn't want to move, because the kids are upset enough as it is.

She's living off a paltry support payment for the kids, she has nothing, and she can't keep the lights on or the house heated it's a McMansion that costs a fortune to heat) with what little she is getting in support for the kids.

So, she swallowed her pride, and got her ass down to the welfare office and applied for Aid to Families with Dependent Children, WIC, and food stamps. She's pounding the pavement looking for a job, but hey, her main talents used to be bossing the maid around (the first to go after the divorce, along with the lawn service and the twice-yearly window washer) and choosing superb canapes for parties, so she isn't having much luck. She's a bit long in the tooth to do retail work at the shops she used to patronize, hasn't the stamina to run a fryolator, and she's hanging on to her sanity by her fingernails (that she can't afford to have manicured anymore). And no one will hire her.

And in 06, she's voting for the Democrat.

All politics is local.

[hyphenate]

47. Well, to be fair

The economy right now is so bad that some folks who never thought they would need assistance are on it, and they are trying to get back to the middle of the middle class like they used to be. There were a series of articles a couple of years ago about how many people who lived fast and furious during the Clinton years are discovering that they aren't able to get the salaries they used to get, and many are having to give up their expensive homes, cars, and other luxuries just to survive.

For some of us, who are pretty poor to begin with, it can be infuriating to see these people, who always thought they were better than us, having to struggle even more and try to make ends meet. In a way, it's a bit of a "triumphant" moment, sort of like saying, "nyah, nyah" but in truth, it means that the rumors are true: the middle class is collapsing into thr "haves" and "have-nots." Pretty soon, only the rich and the poor will exist, and there will be no middle class at all. At least that's the future under a Republican regime, such as they criminals there now.

In my own case, I was getting food stamps for the past three years, while I was waiting for my disability to be approved. I was getting $149 of them, which, for a single like me, was good for the most part, and I could stock up on non-perishables and staples. However, when my disability went through, they reduced my amount to $49. And more recently, it was reduced to $29!!!! That's for the month! And I'm bringing in under $13000 a year for my disability! Of course, the amount of food stamps goes up for families greater than one, so if this woman were feeding a family of four--herself, spouse and two children, she might be taking in about $200 for stamps.

Trust me, the states look recipients over very carefully, providing they provide the honest answers, and her car might be the last vestige of a lifestyle above poverty. They don't force you to give up a home or a car when you get stamps, and they're not counted as part of income.

[neverevergivein]

62. Okay, I withdraw some of my judgement...but...

as I've stated, her "apparent" abuse of the system is one thing. If she deserves the assistance through some circumstance I'm not aware of, I'm a jerk for being offended. But her beligerance at the cashier just doing her job, that I'm allowed to be ticked about. But many of the posts here illuminated scenarios I frankly did not know existed.

I am from a background way too privliged to be anything close to fair. I believe that "to whom much is given, much is expected". I've been given WAY too much to ever be able to give back in kind, but I do try. We do everything we can to help those in poor circumstances. My sister-in-law's family has had real financial struggles in the past. I know they are great people who have had to endure tough times. I never take my life for granted. I carry around a bit of guilt at my life - I've never known hunger or financial worry. But those that I do know that work so hard to get so little, they are the ones who are cheated by those who abuse the system. I do not want us to end assistance. I'm afraid it will end if stories like this become the norm. I'm not old enough to know the Reagan stories that people are bringing up, but I'm old enough to know that if this lady is abusing the system, the system has flaws and those flaws give fodder to people who want to end it. But again, maybe I'm wrong as many here have pointed out - perhaps her story is much deeper than meets the eye.

i will go back to the store tonight and ask the cashier about the story. Maybe she knows the lady or her circumstance. I'm not here to cause DUers to fight about this, I just wanted to know if I might be missing something as I observed something I thought was way wrong. Apparently, I could have been.

[etherealtruth]

80. I don't want to sound nasty ...

Truly, I don't mean to be at all nasty (I am struggling with phrasing) ... but what makes her set of circumstances your business, or mine? Does accepting assistance mean that her "problems" and/or situation should be public knowledge?

Her behavior at the register WAS boorish ... was that in response to her not knowing how to handle embarrassment or the judgment of others? I don't know, but that too might be explained by circumstances that are not our business.

[BlackVelvet04]

88. Why?

"i will go back to the store tonight and ask the cashier about the story."

Why in the world would you do that? Doesn't the woman, even if she was a jerk toward the cashier, deserve a little privacy?

[Thtwudbeme]

95. Dude, or Dudette.....it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS

if you go ask the cashier, you aren't just a mere jerk....you are a stalker and a weirdo.

Goddamn, quit paying so much attention to what other people are doing.

[Jo March]

100. I'd say let it go.

Going to the store to ask about her circumstance is a bit extreme, don't you think? Is it any of your business? If you find out that she isn't cheating the system, will it make your meddling any less intrusive?

[proud2BlibKansan]

132. Why in the world would you want to go back and talk to the cashier?

And if she did tell you anything about this customer and I was her boss, she would be out of a job. Talk about violating privacy!!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

48. Here are some possibilities you might be missing

1. The woman's family has only recently experienced a drastic change in their finances. As you know from your own experience, hardship doesn't mean you suddenly lose everything you already own.

2. The change in their finances happened recently enough that they have not come to terms with the loss, so they haven't sold the Lexus. I was unemployed for two years before I started selling things that were both useful and dear to me.

3. The Lexus is almost paid for, or is on a nearly-completed lease.

4. The private school is being paid for by someone of better means, like the grandparents. When my parents were alive, they bailed me out of some tough times with loans and gifts. Grandparents are often the lifeblood of a young family.

You saw a woman playing the system. I see someone in transition from a comfortable life to one of hardship. If her family is lucky, and young enough, they'll rebound. If not, they'll be selling the Lexus soon enough.

BTW it's the cashier's job to help the customer. Everyone has trouble running cards through those stupid readers, whether it's a food stamp card or a platinum credit card. And unless it's store policy to bag your own purchases, of course she shouldn't have to do it herself.

[adigal]

50. She probably IS a freeper!!

My brother, a right wing bigot, has no problem accepting govt help himself - filing for special programs for disabled firemen and social security when there is no reason.

The right wing welfare king, I call him.

[movonne]

53. We don't even know if that was her Lexus...

[undeterred]

54. It could be abuse but you never know

I have a friend who lives in a very nice home in a wealthy neighborhood. She and her husband (now sepatarated and divorcing) made good money at a business they had years ago. But she hasn't worked in almost a year, and the only jobs she gets interviews for are low paying. She gets foodstamps because its not so easy to take equity out of your house to buy food. She is raising a child. Her husband is on disability because of bipolar disorder and gambled away all their savings. It doesn't look right that someone from that rich neighborhood needs food assistance, but knowing her story, I don't hold it against her.

[Neil Lisst]

56. I'm glad to hear she's traded up from a Cadillac since 1981

She sure gets around, too.

[LostinVA]

96. Hey, it IS 2006!

[Neil Lisst]

134. hence the update from Cadillac to the Lexus!!

How many times did Reagan tell that story, when Aid for Dependent Child was under 10 Bil per year?!

[demosincebirth]

57. Seeing something like that, would really piss me off too.

Just like seeing a healthy young person using a "disabled placard" on her car. I know, what others would say "well she may have a heart condition" and yes she may, but I know she/he doesn't.

At the time, we don't think of CEOs screwing us.

[pookieblue]

104. actually

" Just like seeing a healthy young person using a "disabled placard" on her car. I know, what others would say "well she may have a heart condition" and yes she may, but I know she/he doesn't."

How do you know she doesn't? Not all disablities are obvious. As a person living with MS... when you first look at me, you would not think that there was anything wrong with me. But you are not living in my body, and don't know how much effort it takes at times, just to get around.

Since being DX'd with this diease... and dealing with it.... it's opened my eyes quite a bit.

Not all appears at face value.



that said, about the current subject... the only thing that bothered my about the story of the lady, was how rude she was to the check out lady.

[demosincebirth]

147. Can't I be a little facitious?

[LostinVA]

107. Excuse me? Completely false

One of my students (17) looks healthy, but has a horrible thyroid condition that quickly saps her of energy and makes her weak. SHE has a handicapped permit.

My BIL was in the Army 12 years, broke his back serving his country during a night jump. He's 37, can't run, can't pick up more than 35 pounds, can't bend over. But, he looks healthy. Walking too far is very painful for him, so he has a parking permit.

Oooh, what little scammers they are because they don't look ill...

People really need to be careful about judging ANYONE. We could so easily be in their shoes.

[demosincebirth]

149. 'scuse me, but being judgemental is part of being human...thats

one of our human afflictions. If we say we arn't, we are. Kind of a paradox. Besides, I was being a little facetious, anyway

[TomClash]

60. Are you sure it was a food stamp card?

This story sounds a little fishy. I've never seen anyone who appeared to have money use food stamps.

[qanda]

61. I don't understand what her wanting her bags packed has to do with this

I thought part of the job of being a cashier was to bag the groceries. If not, then they should tell the customers that they are expected to bag their own groceries.

[DelawareValleyDem]

97. Bingo

As I stated above, when I worked in a market employees were expected to bag unless the customer specifically requested to do it themselves. We were not allowed to ask for help, let alone tell the customer to do it themselves. ONLY exception were the aisles prominently marked bag your own.

[Horse with no Name]

64. I got an email with this on it once

Must be a common occurence.:eyes:
However, breaking it completely down.
Perhaps she knocked off her pimp on her way to the grocery store and stole his Lexus.
Of course she did this AFTER she knocked off a poor family and stole their food stamp card (that is why she had difficulty getting the reader to work, she wasn't sure of the password and had to improvise).
I'd say it is a good thing that the cashier relented and bagged this lady's groceries or she would have been another victim of this lying, thieving good-for-nothing welfare queen wannabe.:sarcasm:

[wryter2000]

66. Maybe you should read this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=581909

[countingbluecars]

68. What does a food stamp card look like?

There are so many different credit/debit type cards out there. Are food stamp cards scanned through the same machine as other cards?

[Horse with no Name]

70. Here is the Texas version

Each state has their own

And it works like any other electronic debit/credit card.

[countingbluecars]

73. Thanks for the info.

So it's not giant or fluorescent or anything like that.

[NNN0LHI]

69. The welfare queen in the Cadillac story 6.1 eh?

Why don't you try minding your own business.

Don

[JanMichael]

75. Quite frankly, it's none of your business why this woman is on food stamps

I think you need a hobby.

Try reading.

[LostinVA]

98. I would write up an employee who told a customer

about another's private business (if known). I would fire them if allowed. That's not cricket.

[tjwash]

77. Aww, how cute. The freepers have learned to start welfare queen threads.

By the way, you forgot to add the part where she buys champagne, and Fillet Mignon with your hard earned tax dollars. Oh, and I see you replaced "brand new Cadillac" with "Lexus.

Honestly, when are you guy's going to get a little imagination and start posting some shit that isn't from the early eighties, and hasn't been debunked about 8 million times? :eyes:

Show some pride will you?

[Thtwudbeme]

82. No shit. I just posted in the lounge about this: and to answer the

question posed in the OP....

You shouldn't be pissed, you should be ashamed of yourself for being such a sneaky creepy little spy.

[countingbluecars]

91. No kidding!

What was he doing checking out what kind of card the woman was using?

[LostinVA]

79. People who drive Lexuses and send kids to private schools

do not get food stamps.

[Jo March]

81. Yes - because EVERYONE knows that you can buy a Lexus w/food stamps

:eyes:

[newswolf56]

86. I'm angry all right, but it's at the maliciously bourgeois assumptions...

that are flaring through this thread -- with only a few blessed exceptions, as if I were reading a Republican site. Having once been officially disabled, I of course also received “welfare,” an impossible-to-live-on $314 per month stipend plus about $125 in food stamps. But those are mere statistics. The numbers -- wretched as they are -- say nothing about the ultimate, absolute and never-ending degradation both U.S. society and the state itself deliberately inflict on you for the defacto crime of being poor: the abandon-all-hope atmosphere of the welfare office, the sneering sadistic malice of the welfare bureaucrats, the accusative we-know-you’re-a-thief-and-a-worthless-bum intrusiveness of the entire process, the bottomless humiliation of paying for your groceries with food stamps while the lynch-mob mentality of the American public revs up behind you (“I think they should give the death penalty to people too lazy to work“) -- all this while trying to live on stipends and services that, from 1970 through 1990, were slashed by two-thirds to help the welfare bureaucracy feather its own nest to the tune of a 5,390 percent administrative cost increase, NOT a typo.

Yes, I recognize that having admitted I was once a “welfare bum” (never mind the cause) means there are posters on this site who from now hence will greet my screen name with a smirk of bourgeois superiority and never read another word I write. So be it. But the fact remains this woman so many of you want to rat out and a few of you probably would lynch (or maybe even stone to death) is someone to be pitied rather than ’buked and scorned -- pitied not only because she lives in America (which is by far the most savage nation on the planet in its institutionalized viciousness to the poor and where she has to endure 24/7/365 just such malevolent bourgeois bigotry as is expressed on this thread) but also because (by every piece of evidence laid out in the above indictment) she is:

(1)-Newly impoverished (demonstrated not only by the fact she didn’t know how to operate the food stamp debit card, but by her automobile, private school sticker etc.);

(2)-A broken victim (demonstrated by her helplessness in general), whether a victim of divorce or widowhood or some other life-destroying tragedy ruinous enough to force her into the bottomless slime-pit of the welfare system;

(3)-Someone soon to discover that whatever victimization brought her to her present plight, the horror to which she is now condemned specifically by her entrance into the welfare system is not only just beginning, but will exceed in permanent emotional devastation anything she could possibly have ever imagined: literally the abject powerlessness of a prisoner or a slave -- midnight surprise inspections of your living facilities and even the food in your cupboards, warrantless searches for men, drugs, anything else the system may decide to regard as contraband and seek accordingly, endless probes into the now-forever-abolished privacy of your psyche and finances, the interrogations of your children by which the state constantly seeks grounds -- any grounds -- to take them away from you, etc. ad nauseum. Her nightmare -- and the nightmare of bullying and jeering her children will face once some gossipy school clerk lets it leak this family is “on welfare” (which will happen sure as sunrise) -- has just started.

And what is it with you people who can’t abide the notion of welfare kids attending private schools? Didn’t you know that many private schools -- nearly all in fact -- offer full scholarships to such children in the hope of rescuing them from the dumbed-down dead-end education that is the best they’re likely to get in ghetto public schools (“ghetto” in this instance referring to America’s penchant for segregation by socioeconomic status, not race).

I am, frankly, both appalled and ashamed.

[hippywife]

118. You're so wrong!

Yes, I recognize that having admitted I was once a “welfare bum” (never mind the cause) means there are posters on this site who from now hence will greet my screen name with a smirk of bourgeois superiority and never read another word I write.

I, for one, will hence see you as the person with the best post in answer to this most uncompassionate OP.

Happy to make you acquaintance!

[azurnoir]

151. Alot of assumptions

I too was once upon a time a "welfare queen". First off in my state (MN) you can't own a car worth more than $2500, if you do you must sell it before you qualify for any assistance. Ditto for any unnecessary vehicles- more than 1 car in the family, any boats, motorcycles, RV"s, etc.
The money paid for private schools would considered income even if it was paid directly to the school, Public school only. anything extra is counted as income, including if a grandparent gives a kid $5 for their birthday by law you must report this "income", also if you get food from a food shelf they are supposed to give a statement that has the dollar amount that food would be worth. This is particularly bad because MN deducts or minimizes the monthly food stamp allotment by $100 a month per recipient family, food stamps are a federal program and the full allotment would not cost the state a dime nor does the state receive any reward for disallowing the $100, some incredible mean spirited law makers felt the allotment was too generous and that by creating a situation were the families would face hunger every month was incentive to find work.
A little know fact is that 1/3 to 1/2 of all welfare monies paid to recipients is recouped via the "child support system".

[Cocoa]

92. did you follow her home too?

let me guess, big house at the top of the hill.

[LostinVA]

99. With a pool

[Thtwudbeme]

101. no, a hot tub! And a Humvee in the driveway

couple of polo ponies on the back twenty....

God help me, it's the Reagan crap.

[LostinVA]

103. I'm sure she was black... even if she didn't look it

You know how some of "them" try to pass...

[roseBudd]

93. The only way this story is true is if the woman was buying groceries for

a poor family. She could be a social worker.

The only other way this story is true is if this woman gets her income from the black market, drugs, guns or prostitution.

Anyone who has ever applied knows that income and assets is very easily discovered UNLESS it is black market cash income.

[Hamlette]

94. the car was not registered in her name

I work at the food stamp office and we must check for car ownership in all cases. (The feds make us, so it is in every state.) We also check income with the IRS and employer records. We have access to social security records, unemployment records, workers' comp records...you name it. We check it. (Our computers do the check every night, so even if she didn't have the car when she signed up, it will pop up later.)

It's also hard to put a car you "own" in some elses name because of mandatory insurance laws. A local church wanted to help poor people and fixed up and gave them cars. Which made them ineligible for food stamps. But the church didn't want ownership in its name because of the insurance problems.

I would be willing to bet she borrowed the car.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

102. Thank you for the information

This is excellent information for debunking the "food stamp abuse" stories in the future.

[DBoon]

105. She may be abusing the system, BUT

making it impossible for someone like this to scam a few hundred dollars in food stamps cannot be done without making it hard (or impossible) for a lot of people who really need food stamps to get them.

That's just a fact of public policy - anything that helps the poor will get abused by a few folks who are not poor. Anything that tightens the screws on abuse will screw honest people who are not abusing the system.

Personally, if someone is making enough money to buy a Lexus and still feels the need to scam food stamps, I would guess they have a few screws loose. I mean, a dishonest person can make a whole lot more in writing bad checks than in cheating welfare.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

106. If you ever see the woman you owe her an apology

First, for being so nosy as to what type of card she was paying with, which was none of your business.

Second, for spreading unsubstantiated rumors about her.


My grandmother used to have a saying about people who make ASSumptions.

[Starlight]

111. I agree. If you want to bust someone for abusing the system, why aren't

you stalking CEOs & politicians instead of eavesdropping on shoppers using food stamps? :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

117. Because some people think that poor people what's wrong with America

The poor people of darker skin tones are the worst. :eyes:

If this person cared about fraudulent use of their taxes they would be going after Halliburton.

[Starlight]

120. Exactly.

[Clark2008]

108. She may have paid for the car when she was working and

then, now, lost her job due to outsourcing.

I have a nice Mustang, paid for, which counts for my sole means of transportation. I lost my job last year for six weeks and had to put my son and me on food stamps briefly. If you looked at the car I got into, you might think that I didn't deserve them, either, but, having a deadbeat for an ex who doesn't pay much to any child support and having no real income other than the piddly amount you get on unemployment, I had to apply. Of course, I didn't stay on them longer than a couple of months upon getting a new job (and now I'm remarried, so that whole point is mute).

There's a thousand reasons why she might be getting into a nice car, but still need assistance.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

110. Hey! You found Reagan's welfare queen! Driving Lexus instead of Cadillac

in the new millenium! Congratulations!

[ryan_cats]

112. Food stamps are necessary to support our fellow humans

Food stamps are necessary to support our fellow humans when they're down on their luck. If she's driving a Lexus, I'm thinking she's not down on her luck. She can afford to send her kids to a private school?

When I was going to school and supporting myself I drove a ratty carmand ate Raman noodles; I had to make sacrifices to afford to go to school to better my future. Apparently she doesn't want to sacrifice the finer things in life.

No, this doesn't make you a closet freaker. I wholly support welfare and food stamp programs. It's a measure of our country how we support those down on their luck. She's just milking the system. Don't worry, Karma has a way of evening things out.

[Quantess]

116. small potatoes

It is easier to get upset at something we see happening before our eyes, than behind-the-scenes abuse of taxpayers' money. I can guarantee that the behind-the-scenes abuses committed by big names such as Halliburton, FEMA, Abramoff, Enron, etc, were and are exponentially worse than any petty food-stamp fraud. People are more likely to be upset by what they can see, rather than some abstract scandal they read about.

Also, consider that social services are being cut, while the military budget is increasing. If you feel that "your" tax dollars are being squandered by some dishonest individual who enjoys pigging out on your dime, take heart: food stamp services are being cut.

Personally, I think in the grand scheme of things, anecdotal stories of food-stamp abuse are small potatoes. So maybe a few individuals are blowing food stamp dollars foolishly. Compare that to FEMA blowing millions of our tax dollars foolishly, while accomplishing very little. Most of us are mad about that as well, and I personally think it is a more worthwhile thing to be upset over, rather than a few misplaced food stamp dollars.

[SPKrazy]

119. Hmmmmmm, What's that smell?

I think it is bullshit, that's what I think.:evilgrin:

[Cleita]

121. The aroma of "welfare queens in Cadillacs" here.

Since there is only your word that this happened, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that there will always be some who abuse a system, but that is no reason to deny the majority of the truly needy because of one jerk.

When I lived in Idaho, almost everyone in line before me at the supermarket was on food stamps. These were working poor mostly for the lumber companies who had to get food stamps to survive because the work was seasonal. So if you are trying to say that most people on food stamps don't need them, then you will be hurting many families including children who do need them.

Also, could the Lexus have been her employer's if she was employed as a housekeeper. I worked as a housekeeper once in between jobs and my employer let me drive her Lincoln Continental to the market when I shopped for her. I used to do my shopping then as well to kill two birds so to speak, although I never have used food stamps.

I mean things aren't always as the look.

[Maddy McCall]

122. No, you should keep your damn nose to yourself.

It's not your business.

[Maddy McCall]

123. Darn. He's tombstoned. Anyone notice which state he claimed to be from?

[meganmonkey]

125. State of Total Bullshit?

:shrug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

126. Georgia

I peeked right before he was struck by that chunk of granite. :)

[Maddy McCall]

131. Thanks.

I imagine that Georgia's state laws associated with public assistance, as well as their asset limitations, are as archaic as Mississippi's are. Most southern states have pretty stringent limitations, which is ironic, considering that in the South, many people qualify for public assistdance.

Indeed, in Mississippi, over 50% of those who qualify refuse to use food stamps, because of the "pride" factor. Probably similar statistic in Georgia.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

142. Yes, I'm sure your right

I'll never understand why people get a kick out of making up crap like this. I'm glad to have learned that there is a database that is searched for vehicle ownership. This makes whacking idiots on the head for this kind of lie MUCH easier.

Hope all is going well in your life, Maddy. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. Atlanta

[Lone_Star_Dem]

130. I thought it said Atlanta, Georgia

And he'd been here since Jan 27th of 2006.

Dang, I must be seeing things. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

136. No you are right.

I was thinking of another poster.

Sorry.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

143. No problem

It only stuck out to me because I used to live there and the troll had survived so long on DU. :)

[Redstone]

124. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Furthermore: Bullshit.

Redstone

[eleny]

127. I say that you're lying

n/t

[CatWoman]

139. Wonder if those groceries included Tombstone Pizza?

:D

[eleny]

141. Whoot!!!

Oh, that's good!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

144. He'll be eating some of that this very evening!

:rofl:

[WhiteTara]

138. what store was that?

What town? Just curious.

[proud2BlibKansan]

146. How dare you ask for details!!

That ruins the mood of the story.

[karlrschneider]

145. Sorry, I don't believe a word of that story.

:eyes:

[Extend a Hand]

148. I used to check-out at a grocery right next to the food stamp office

Most people that were trying to "cheat" and buy disallowed items, were trying to buy toilet paper and dishsoap and the like-- not liquor. That was 20 years ago, I hope they have long since changed those stupid rules. (I always ignored those stupid rules anyway) :P

[WilliamPitt]

150. Maybe she borrowed her sister's car?

Or something else.

[proud patriot]

152. I'm locking this thread

The op is no longer with us .