Q: Didn't the army do most of what KBR does on its -own- previously?

[jpgray]

And isn't this costing the American taxpayer billions more when privatized? I do ask in moderate ignorance, because I'm not sure of the specifics, but from all I've read, providing meals, constructing bases and the like used to be done in house, no?

[LynnTheDem]

1. Yes.

Yes.

And Yes.

And a lot of US soldiers are bloody pissed off about bush's outsourcing of the US military.

[ClassWarrior]

2. It's that old corporatist lie that, "We'll save money by outsourcing...

"...because business is so much more efficient than government."

:rofl:

16+5=2006

NGU.

[KansDem]

13. Ahhhh, yes. I remember that argument.

It goes right along with the "If elected, I'll run government like a business!" mantra that GOPers running for public office would use (most often as their only qualification for office).

[Kansas Wyatt]

19. And Republicans have turned the Federal Government into

The Corporate Government Store, and 'We The People' owe our souls to the Corporate Government Store.

They have legally, but unethically and disingenuously, re-introduced the Company Store as the Corporate Government Store.

[dogfacedboy]

21. This steals opportunities from troops. Here are some examples.

Seeing how elected officials 'run government like a business' has opened my eyes to just how f'ed up the 'corporate world' can be.

Back to KBR, they have taken not only OUR money, but they have taken opportunities away from our troops. I can give two examples that I personally know of. When my father in law was in the Army, they turned him into a cook. He became good at it, and eventually cooked for high ranking officers. After he left the military, he cooked for a living, subsequently owning two successful restaurants. He says he NEVER would have gone this route without starting it off in the Army. A friend of mine entered the Army in 1977, after graduating from HS. The Army trained him as an electrician, and when he left after 8 years, he walked right into a well paid career as a UNION electrician. What else can I say?

[TexasLawyer]

22. Also, lots of these guys already HAD careers

The reserves and the guard are full of policemen, students, teachers, businessmen, etc... that have been taken away from their jobs and businesses to fight the war. These men and women are being deprived as well.

[Cocoa]

3. when Cheney was Poppy's defense secretary

he commissioned Halliburton to do a study on the feasibility of outsourcing some logistics tasks that previously had been done by the troops.

They concluded that it was a good idea. Then they made Cheney a really really rich man.

[jpgray]

4. I knew that part of the history

But why wasn't there a public outcry on wasting taxpayer dollars in this way? One would think this would be a perfect target for an opposition party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. You are assuming we have

an oposition party and not a charade... look at what some of our Democratic have done (cough Feinstein Cough)

[jpgray]

6. I don't buy that answer

We have plenty of people who are outspoken on salient issues, from Conyers to Feingold to Byrd--there is almost always someone found in our party that says the right thing at the right time.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

7. PBS Frontline did a very good show on this topic, including a focus on

Halliburton in particular, and showing what a ripoff their meals served to the troops are cost wise. Their rep wouldn't even say how much a meal would cost, as if they didn't know, but the Army guy who was in charge of the logistics for the big base in Iraq laid out some numbers for the show.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/

[izzybeans]

8. see above.

Standard operating procedure for the Lessors of the State (LOSt) formerly known as the Grand Ol' Party. We the lessee see no return for our investment. The members of LOSt operative on a belief in the supernatural being called "MARKET" which operates its magic via an "INVISIBLE HAND" through divine creation. This core belief of LOSt alienates the members of this group from the actual "marketplace" which is comprised of a hierarchy that operates as a reverse funnel. Wealth flows to the top like water. Nobody cares because its magic. "The market is flat" and i know this is so because "it's turtles all the way down" and if not that, than flying spaghetti monsters set the price index, and not humans who sit on top of corporate and class hierarchies. In this case syphoning off tax dollars from government agencies produces efficiency just like the stars produced the carnal scourge, through the supernatural ectoplasm that set off the radioactive thought glasses, that motivated the actions performed by humans. Members of LOSt can be found taking communion in churches misnamed thinktanks.

[kittykitty]

9. Yep! My husband has fond memories of KP Duty, peeling potatoes!

[bluesbassman]

10. Engineers...

I served from 1976 to 1979 as a 62B, heavy equipment repairman, supporting an armored cavalry unit in Nurnburg. In our company we had everything from carpenters to welders. Even had our own cooks (not too bad as far as Army food went). We did have some civilian support, but it was just that - support. The shear magnitude of what they are outsourcing can only be explained as WAR PROFITEERING!

[FloridaPat]

11. They did it the first year they were in office. Nice and quietly.

They outsourcced everything - food, water, tents, etc. The military people were pissed. This does several things - more soldiers for shooting and not cooking; more money to Haliburton; more money donated to the repub party.

Several journalists think that because Haliburton (KBR) didn't do a good job of getting food and water to the troops, several of them died of dehydration. Then a couple of weeks ago it was reported that some of the water was contaminated and the food rotten. Yeah, the repubs really know how to support the troops.

[harlinchi]

12. Besides the greater cost, there are other issues which should...

...prevent us from using private companies to perform missions usually done by the military.

If I'm a PVT or PFC or SPC in a transportation company and am ordered to drive my deuce in a convoy from point A to point B, even though danger is anticipated, I snap to, salute, say yessir (or yes SGT, as the case may be)and proceed to complete the mission, regardless of hostile fire, etc. If I'm a private citizen working for a private company and I receive the same mission from my supervisor, expecting hostile fire, I'm gonna be inclined to call in sick, get a headache, say its too rainy or too sunny, say my mom is calling me and needs me or say anything to avoid the danger. The fact that ammo, food, mail or laundry might not be delivered on time wouldn't concern me as much as my safety. A Private First Class must go and do the mission; a private citizen has no such imperative.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Yes, back in the day there was a thing called "Logistics"

[SoCalDem]

15. Volunteer military killed those jobs

It was a routine thing.. that new recruits had to do the grungy jobs and would work their way out of those jobs.. They were draftees and had no way out of those duties..

Volunteer military made people think.. Do I want to join the military and end up peeling potatoes and digging latrines?? No, was the answer..so the military found a way to "outsource" those jobs and it accomodated the smaller numbers of volunteers too.. Drafting military, made for a steady source of as many as they wanted.. Volunteerism meant that they never knew for sure how many would sign up..

[Stephanie]

16. yes, but there was no corporate profit under that system

the only thing you need to know about the BFEE's agenda is this: nothing should exist on this earth that the corporations can't take a slice of profit from.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Yeah. And, for the princely sum of $78 a month.

Which is what I was paid when I foolishly joined up. Got to live cheek to jowl in barracks, do our own laundry, eat garbage, dig holes, clean the barracks to spotless, and other such delights now denied to patriotic volunteers.

But, my pay did zoom all the way up to $165 per month after 4 years learning important military skills like ironing, polishing brass, washing dishes, and shitting in a hole. Not to mention other valuable skills like how to murder your fellow human with all sorts of interesting devices furnished by people who became very wealthy.

[Bridget Burke]

18. In the past, the military offered real job training.

In fields besides the "war-fighting." Not to say that service people in supporting roles were all out of harm's way. But they did their jobs cheaper than contracters. And, mostly, followed orders.

[Bigmack]

20. Yet another reason to keep recruiters....

...out of the schools. They used to have a point... jobs and training for real jobs in the military. Now?.... Not much use for those infantry skills in the civilian world.