Strange new finger scanner today at grocery store.

[borlis]

When I asked what it was for, I was told it was a new thing that would scan your finger and your debit card would be charged automatically. It will be starting in a couple of weeks. I told the cashier I thought it was creepy. She said so far most people think it's a pretty good idea. I said I think way too many people drank george bush's kool aid. She just laughed. Does anyone else think this is creepy strange? :shrug:

[amitten]

1. I've got a finger for 'em. n/t

[Guaranteed]

2. I've talked about that with my fiancee.

It does sound like it will eventually end up getting abused. Although, if you have a driver's license the government probably already has your thumbprint.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

144. Why would they have your thumbprint?

I've been licensed for, um way to many years, and never been fingerprinted for a driver license.

[bobbieinok]

153. when I renewed my license ca 2 yrs ago, they took a thumbprint

and, I think, put it in the code that can be scanned

when I asked about this at DU, many thought it was odd.....but also many said this was a federal mandate that all states would soon be required to follow......you may have renewed your license last time just before this was introduced in your state.....

[Freedom_Aflaim]

155. lovely.

Thats what I was afraid of, something semi recent ala patriot act.

$$%#@@$

[KyuzoGator]

3. They've started testing implanted chips at my loval Wal-Mart.

The only think Orwell missed was the date.

[Guaranteed]

8. Are you kidding?

People are actually implanting chips in their skin?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. Club girls have been doing it for a couple of years...

so when you do the trendy barhop thing, you don't have to carry ID or Credit card.

There's no pockets in those swatches of fabric they wear, ya know. :eyes:

[Why Syzygy]

23. club girls?

Okie dokie folks . those of you who believe in the mark of the beast. This is it.

I don't believe in the "end times" scenario. I do believe there are those who want to make it happen.

Club girls? So you get a skin implant so you can go drinking?

We just got an ink stamp.

[skids]

65. Hrm, you may be onto something there.

...but only for certain brands/types of RFID tags...



http://www.none-o-your.biz/issues/rfid.html

...couldn't find any 666's though.

[Why Syzygy]

80. Some people

are saying that 6/6/06 means something. What do you think?

[QuettaKid]

97. I'll tell you what it means.

That's the date that the remake of "The Omen" opens in theatres!!

[Blackthorn]

134. And potentially the new Slayer album...

who coicedentally dropped their last disc on 9/11/01.

[skids]

128. I hope not.

6/6 is more than just D-day to me :-)

[Matariki]

147. i just read Stephenson's Baroque Trilogy

one part of the story takes place in 1666 and one of the main character's has a bit of a crisis in faith when the Christian Apocalypse fails to happen at THAT predicted date. Apparently there was a big expectation in Christian Europe over that date.

Everyone is ALWAYS waiting for the end times. Why do you think THAT is?

[shanti]

55. no way....

:eyes: please tell me that you are joking.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shanti]

63. omg

we are chattel now. :( it's only a short step until they begin tagging all newborns. :scared:

[Why Syzygy]

86. trendsetters

of course it begins at the "top". I'm trendy. Are you trendy?
Inane.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

100. Ok, I picked a bad site to link too, but it's true...

same story, authorized site
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5545802.html

[CAcyclist]

133. I'm a "club girl"

and I don't know what you're talking about. There are nifty things like coat checks in the clubs. And I use old-fashioned safety pins to pin my money and coat check receipt to the inside of my pants' leg.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

141. Read post #100

Mostly in Europe, but I'm sure it will spread soon. it's just creepy.

[TahitiNut]

4. How many people's fingers will be chopped off in the next few years?

Yeah. Neat. :eyes:

[newblewtoo]

112. Not so far fetched

Recently read about a finger identification system for a Mercedes in Taiwan and that is what they did, killed the guy and took his finger. No retina scans for me or finger locks either.

[bobbieinok]

154. sci-fi stories have had people cutting out eyes and cutting off thumbs,

fingers, to get into rooms, buildings, computers, etc, for some years now

[Tsiyu]

113. Damn. I never thought of that

Now I'm going to have nightmares about nefarious dudes carrying around briefcases full of fingers.

Maybe they'll have an 800 number where you can report when yours has been chopped? That will make it a little easier for the consumer....;)

[MercutioATC]

120. The same number that have had their eyes gouged out (retina scans)

none.

:eyes:

[kittenpants]

131. They might notice if you scan a severed finger...

[ContraBass Black]

135. That's why Audi doesn't do fingerprint recognition.

[astonamous]

5. What the hell were you buying? Aluminum tubes?

:sarcasm:

[Zomby Woof]

6. Pay By Touch

And it is less creepier than a PIN number how?? Or your photo ID?

This household stands to make some good retirement money off of this invention as ground floor investors, and we are the polar opposite of Kool-Ade drinkers, if one insists on that tired cliche.

[ConsAreLiars]

11. Fascism is good business.

Don't worry, be happy.

[Zomby Woof]

17. LOL

I fail to see how protecting one's bank account with their fingerprint (or signature, which is easier to forge, or ID card, etc) is some form of latent fascism. :rofl:

And :eyes:

Cut up your social security card, your driver's license, and your birth certificate. It's the only way your comment would hold its own in the face of my glib fascism. Put some intellectual honesty behind your assertion.

[ConsAreLiars]

22. Happy investing.

Good to know you will make money as Poindexter's wet dream becomes reality.

[Zomby Woof]

26. You are a card

:rofl:

At least you are confident in our investment. Thanks! :toast:

[ConsAreLiars]

35. You might want to put some money into

GE also. I hear the war industry is returning good good dividends, but a better bet might be mercenaries and torturers like CACI, since these small cap enterprises have better growth potential. Have fun. After all, the bottom line is what matters most.

[Zomby Woof]

41. Ugh

Your reactionary relativism is unseemly. I loathe GE for all the reasons you do. Equating a fingerprint debit card scanner with GE or CACI is the kind of intellectual dishonesty and logical sloppiness born of ideological sanctimony at its most ignorant and base.

It's not about the bottom line. It's about creatively escaping wage slavery. I am sure you live a morally pure existence, though.

[Why Syzygy]

44. what in the world

does this have to do with escaping wage slavery? How? Oh. Let me guess. Investments. Okay, I'm with you. Make the system work for you. Until 9/11 . then out the window. Forget about investments because then there are the inside guys who had it all ahead of time. Yeah. Investments. That's where it's at. I commend you for taking a progressive stance.

[ConsAreLiars]

49. Wage slavery.

You are right to characterize it that way. I am fortunate enough to be in the wrong income class for facing any "investment" choices, but there are many socially responsible options out there. Financing one more element of the TIA system doesn't seem like one of them to me. Look into those funds if you don't want to wake up 10 years from now with a sense of complicity. Just my view. Oh, and if you are purely interested in the bottom line, then look at the Play-Doh hack of that tech: http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20051209175034721

[MadHound]

95. It is about enabling the furtherance of the fascist state

And the complete rule of a police state. Are you willing to be chipped? Think about it long and hard, for that question will be asked of you one day.

[mopinko]

109. caci

i was stunned, when i was in d.c. in sept, at the caci building! it is a fucking huge scar on the skyline.

[IsItJustMe]

29. I know exactly what you are talking about.

[IsItJustMe]

25. Loss of freedom dude. Ever hear of Orwell, Big Brother. Think man.

Where does it stop. Live free or die.

[Zomby Woof]

32. This is going from amusing to insane

Although '1984' is one of my favorite novels of all time, I prefer his non-fiction 'Homage to Catalonia' myself, about the endless infighting on the Left, but I will save my subtle irony for another day.

Cut up your driver's license. Shred your social security card. I guarantee those two things make you more of a tool for The Man than a goddamned fingerprint scanner designed to only allow YOU to purchase your Cheerios. Call your bank and cancel your ATM card, along with the PIN. It's the same goddamned thing, only less secure than your prints.

[Why Syzygy]

38. that doesn't seem to be the point

the point seems to be that you don't need to carry anything other than your body to any function.

It will sell. I betcha. People are all into convenience.

[hang a left]

82. I never carry my supermarket card with me.

I just punch in my phone number. It works just the same. I get my sale prices and the checkers thanks me for shopping by name after she reads it on the bottom of the reciept she hands me. It works.

[Occulus]

71. While I understand where you're coming from- sort of- my complaint...

...is that this new tech only opens up a new way for consumers to be exploited by the very same people you're accusing of perpetuating 'wage slavery'- not to mention the ways this technology could be used by criminals.

Then there are the potential health effects of implantable chips. YES, I know they've been used in medicine now for some time with great success, but opening the technology up to a nonmedical application enables corporate America- 'wage slavers', all- to produce cheap knockoffs, and under the current maladministration, I have little to no faith that the production standards will be actively and effectively monitored by any responsible authority. I'll not mention any little 'easter eggs' the companies producing these implants may put into place (and before you call me paranoid, I should remind you that Sony just got caught putting malware on their music CDs without telling anyone).

Finally, you yourself keep bringing up ATM cards, credit cards, PIN numbers, and the like, and keep saying that we already use similar forms of identification that are actually less secure. Leaving aside the fact that the security of such things depends entirely upon the competence of the holder, your comments bring up an excellent question we all should be asking: why do we need this? Aside from it being an implantable chip, how is it "different" from what we're using now, and why do we need to be 'encouraged' to change that?

Babies today are given a Social Security number at birth, or soon after. Why is it such a terrible stretch of the imagination to conceive of a day when babies are implanted with a chip containing that number, which then "safeguards" all their future transactions? What happens when some of these chips are 'defective', as will surely happen eventually?

That doesn't seem to be so outrageous a concept these days, now, does it?

[Left Is Write]

140. Babies are given Social Security numbers...

as a way to identify them as deductions for their parents, and as a way of preventing non-filing-jointly parents from each claiming the same child in the same year.

[SammyWinstonJack]

93. Ya know, they could scan my butt if it meant I would never have too

carry around a Debit card, which I'm in constant fear of misplacing or losing.

[Why Syzygy]

33. If you are talking about

idenity theft, there is no insurance. They already get your picture, assign you numbers and now they supposedly think that body parts will ensure that no one steals your identity, or they can make out you are you. As mentioned, body parts can be faked.

This is a control feature. TPTB believe they can mass control the world with technology.
Is that okay with you?

[Why Syzygy]

27. rfid

follows you everywhere. Latches you onto things. Ever see that Tom Cruise movie? You have to get someone else's eyeballs in order to gain entrance. I think that is creepier than a pin.

But Im me about the investment opportunity, please. Sure to be big.

[Zomby Woof]

34. I avoid Tom Cruise movies

That fucker is creepy, since that seems to be the preferred adjective tonight.

It may be a big investment, it may flop. Who knows? Life without risk is dull and...

creepy.

[Why Syzygy]

40. okay

just im me or post, give me a hint. Where do I invest in human slavery?

Ever hear of tatoos to identify nazi captures? Ever hear of tatoos to identify slaves .. that is where the tatoo originated. Ever hear of branding? (see the old testament)
Please I beg you, let me know how to invest.

I'm serious. I want to check it out. Private im.

[chat_noir]

98. Minority Report

Cruise's character is inundated with video ads when he enters a shopping mall. The ads reference the clothes, etc. that he had purchasely previously.

[shanti]

56. are you saying

that you have money in this venture? ohhhhhhkay.:eyes:

[ConsAreLiars]

76. ZombyWoof editied out his/her boast of expecting to make money

from their investments. Why? Ask ZombyWoof. Shame or guilt perhaps. Don't blame me for the deceptive editing. Ask him/her to explain.

(edit: replaced "claim" with "boast," as it seems more accurate.)

[Dunedain]

105. Don't feel put out sir

My family has done the same, it is a natural evolution of payment options, no nefarious subterfuge.
As an aside, we are also neck deep into ethanol, and the processing plants that produce it.
When I bough Microsoft in the late seventies, was I a dupe for the man, or a sage?

[CoffeeCat]

7. I'll pay cash, thank you very much!

If stuff like this becomes commonplace, I'll be paying cash for everything.

This IS creepy. You are right Borlis.

Besides, there are too many ways that they are keeping track of our transactions. Catalina Marketing records EVERY SINGLE transaction that you make in the grocery store, with your debit/credit card. That information is stored in their databases. What do they do with it? Who knows.

However, somewhere there is a file on you--and it contains information about your purchases. You don't want anyone to know that you eat bananas, use Crest toothpaste and sometimes crave Oreos? Pay cash for your groceries.

[Why Syzygy]

47. it is called

target marketing. The Tom Cruise movie made that clear. The name escapes me, someone fill in.
You can't go anywhere without someone trying to sell you something.
What do you think it's about? MONEY! And personal habits and affiliations. Just big Brotha. No need to worry.

[shanti]

61. and don't shop at safeway

with their friggin "card". all the info they would have to fight to get, is right there for them - for free. if you pay cash and don't use their card, you pay more.

[Critters2]

132. Most chains do this now,

Kroger, Hy-Vee, even Petsmart and Petco. I just figure it keeps 'em stocking the things I buy--which is often odd things like organic foods and vegetarian dog food. I don't mind 'em taking notice that I want those things.

[Rainscents]

9. I wonder they would still finger scan if you paid with cash?

What do you think?

[Zomby Woof]

12. No

It is strictly for plastic. Identity theft is a very real and expensive problem. Using plastic is a choice. My advice is to pay cash for those a bit oversensitive about alternative payment methods.

[Rainscents]

14. Thanks!

[Why Syzygy]

52. that would be nice

but they even take your picture when you pick up cash at the atm.
And if I'm not mistaken, there are magnetic stripes in the cash!

They don't have the technology fully in place yet. But eventually, I assume, every cash transaction, every transaction will be followed. If they can arrange the computer geeks and bureaucracy to make it happen.

Meanwhile the failed "leader" of our nation is getting off and paying off cronies and siphoning off big time cash and no one pays attention. But they care if I go to Burger King. Tell me. What is the logical, rational explanation?

[Zomby Woof]

143. You can get cash without an ATM

Go to your bank and write a check made out to CASH from your checkbook.

And even then, you are on camera.

All this absurdity about Big Brother is a day late and five dollars short.

I think if it helps curb ID theft, it is a damn fine idea. Nobody gives a shit about you going to BK... except BK and their business partners.

(Those aren't magnetic stripes in the cash, those aid in anti-counterfeiting... just a way of making them harder to duplicate)

[skylarmae]

57. that is of course only if the purchase amount is under 500.--

I think that if you are getting more than 500 out of the bank or receiving a money wire or paying with large amounts of cash, since 9/11, cash transactions of large amounts are noted to proper authorities. And the questions they ask as well now to receive a money gram over 499. Even where you work...and that is to receive money...

When I inquired about all the questions, 9/11 was used as the excuse since the hijackers transferred monies to one another by wire...

Just a bit of info

[Why Syzygy]

62. 911

is used for a lot of excuses these days. Wonder why that is. Keep in mind Dubai just purchased port authority. But no one knew. But they know what book I check out from the library. This is freedom? Who's freedom. I would say the hijackers got more freedom from this than we did. ala' George and his minions. Makes you wonder?

I am g-d sick and tired of trying to buy freedom for those who clearly don't want it.
I want my freedom back.

[borlis]

16. They said you don't have to use it.

It's just to make your shopping expierence easier. Just doesn't make sense to me since they never have enough baggers anyway. It won't get you out any faster.

[Zomby Woof]

18. Of course it's optional

When one pays cash, they aren't required to enter their debit PIN number, right?

[The Straight Story]

78. Oh, one more thing on being optional - as long as you are not on welfare

At least in this case:

http://vvv.dss.state.ct.us/digital/ny_test.htm

Proceeding pursuant to CPLA article 78 (transferred to this court by order of the Supreme Court, entered in Broome County) to review a determination of respondent State Commissioner of Social Services which denied petitioners request for continuance of their public assistance benefits.

Petitioners and their four minor children are recipients of Aid to Families with Dependent Children (hereinafter ADC) (Social Services Law, section 343 et seq.) and food stamps from the Broome County Department of Social Services (hereinafter the Department). In February 1996, petitioners received notice from the Department that they were to participate in an identity verification procedure know as the automated finger imaging system (hereinafter AFIS) as a condition of eligibility for benefits required by 18 NYCRR 351.2 (a). Petitioners responded that they would not participate because of their religious convictions. Respondent Commissioner of the Department thereafter discontinued their ADC and food stamps entitlements for failure to comply.

Department violated NY Constitution article XVII section 1 (which provides that aid and care of the needy are public concerns and shall be provided by the State) by discontinuing their public assistance benefits. Since petitioners cannot be classified as needy until such time as they are finger imaged to determine whether they are receiving duplicate benefits, no violation of their constitutional provisions has been stated. Moreover, contrary to petitioners' arguments, the discontinuance of public assistance to their entire family unit (see, 18 NYCRR 352.30) does not infringe the constitutional rights of their children (who are not named petitioners) in light of valid legislation premising the eligibility of the children within the family unit upon the eligibility of the entire household (see, Matter of Jessup v D'Elia, 69 NY2d 1030).

[Why Syzygy]

87. there ya go!

The "system" who is supposedly out there to protect and give a hands up demands a turn over of privacy. Forever and always. It is worse than getting married.

[anitar1]

45. It is total bullcrap, IMO. One more sneaky thing. n/t

[juliana24]

64. Thats what they always say, then they make it mandatory.....

Thumbprints at Motor Vehicles were optional for a couple of years, then mandatory later on. Same with seat-belt laws.

Camels' nose under the tent and all that.

[Zomby Woof]

73. We're talking PAYMENT METHOD here

Credit cards have been around for decades.

Commonplace as they are, they are NOT mandatory are they? Neither is Pay By Touch, and it NEVER WILL BE MANDATORY. But they said the same thing about credit cards, and they said the same thing about ATM's. Those aren't mandatory, no matter how omnipresent they are.

I notice no one is addressing the FACTUAL points of my posts, rather, they are making assertions of opinion and projecting their paranoid fantasies coupled with bad metaphors and tired literary analogies, and some add the random personal attack into the mix.

Personally, I like seat belt laws. If it keeps someone's loved one from becoming a road pizza, how can that be bad? Same goes for ID theft. I like that the print system protects your account from ID theft.

[The Straight Story]

77. Actually, not fully true imho

Credit cards may not be mandatory, but it does make life much more difficult if you do not use them - renting a hotel room, getting a rental car, credit score (which can affect if you get a job) and so on.

As far as being mandatory - finger scans will be before you know it. I would for a large bank and deal with a lot of security issues. Some of our centers you must scan your finger to get into various places (a smart card type scenario). Eventually most companies will go to this to get in and out of most office buildings (for your security of course) and track your movements and position within the building (so if there is a fire or other emergency you can be easily found and saved).

Finally, people will be so conditioned to this the transition to it will be simple - why should my bank print millions of credit and debit cards (the cost of which can add up, not to mention the security issues we face) when we can just tie you into a fingerprint and avoid real cards?

So far, ok - is voluntary. But as cash becomes less relevant and more expensive to deal with (like checks are now, though that has been fixed to some extent with virtual checks being the same as the real ones - we scan it and pass the scan around to other banks now instead of actual checks) the push will be on to phase out cash (see cashless society under google.com/unclesam search engine for banking notes about this).

Once cash is gone controlling people becomes much easier. The government can freeze your account and nothing you have will help you - which is what we are close to today, but that pesky cash floating around allows people to buy things the government cannot track - from drugs to smokes to beer, etc.

Eventually too employers and insurance companies will ask for and get that data (congress will bend to big business) - you smoke and drink? Well rates go up and maybe you are not as hireable as the other guy. And it goes on and on.

Of course the finger scanners now are no big deal. Just makes your life easier. It is where it is heading that we don't like - and this is another cobblestone on the road to tyranny.

[Why Syzygy]

88. okay this gives me a little hope

because they will NEVER cut off the means to buy drugs. Never. If I can't use a debit card, there will have to be some other way. Of course I don't personally use drugs.. just saying.

Are we then looking at a black market for cash? Barter? Those drug dealers are not just going to go away. big duh.

[Why Syzygy]

75. I want to know the camel's nose story

please tell.

[The Straight Story]

146. See my #78 on that (nt)

[ConsAreLiars]

19. Not today - one step at a time.

But tomorrow will be a new day. Then even the elevator button will be an ID scanner

[Zomby Woof]

42. Paranoia is not a healthy way to live

It's rather sad, whether from the Right or the Left.

[The Straight Story]

79. Paranoia, no. Skepticism and lack of trust in our goverment - yes

not to mention corporations.

How did we get along centuries without all this?

And I would glady tear up my SS card, and everything else - but then I would not be able to survive, which is scary in and of itself.

We are not as free as we want to believe. We still have choices of course, they are just growing slimmer by the year.

[Why Syzygy]

58. That is the present

I've seen it in an office building where you scan your fingerprint to get to the floor you want.

My problem with this is like how far can it go? Are we going to have to turn up vital organs? Or how about dna. Why not just cut to the chase and get the dna?

[niyad]

13. I don't even matronize stores where the registers TALK, much less

one that will take my fingerprint. the police state is here, and there is deafening silence from the reich.

[GreenPartyVoter]

107. Matronize? I love it! *high five*

[Selatius]

15. I try to USE CASH AND AVOID PLASTIC

The majority of my damn bank statements are nothing but ATM withdrawal records. What I buy with my damn money is not anybody's damn business, and I don't want the fucking Dept. of Homeland Security having a record of whether I buy a bar of soap so I can be raped up the ass when I go to prison for questioning the federal government.

[IsItJustMe]

20. Wal-Mart is going to start a technoloigy prett soon that will make Orwell

look like a joke. This technology is by far scariest shit I ever heard of and the possibility of abususe is horrific.

It's called Radio Frequency Identification.

[Richard D]

31. I agree

And it won't stop at wallyworld either. The implications of implanted chip technology is quite overwhelming. All that needs to be done is to link the purchase of an item with a chip with the buyers identity and voila, liftime of the item tracking.

[IsItJustMe]

36. It's a slipper ass slope. Most folks don't even know whats out there now

tracking them. I have worked in computers and information and the personal shit they are putting out is wrong.

[shanti]

68. check it out

i bought a bottle of rum a few weeks ago. the checkout clerk said i had a 'singing bottle'. there was a battery operated piece glued to the bottom of the bottle that played a little steel drum ditty, until the battery ran out. it drove me nuts, so i pulled it off and threw it in the trashcan. it would be very easy to put a tracking chip in that.

[Why Syzygy]

66. It is here

I think Wal Mart is the state store. Think communist Russia, 21st century. What you do is our business. What we do is none of yours.

[IsItJustMe]

72. Well, they have destroyed small town businesses, destroyed unions, placed

large numbers of people in dead end low paying jobs, Support Republicans big time with money, support the Republican agenda (moringing after pill) and now they are going to come out with RFID that will probably be used by the government at some point.

I don't know a damn good thing you can say wal-mart. It's existance is a part of the destruction of America as we know it.

[Why Syzygy]

81. that is what I'm saying

state store. Welcome to Wal Mart.

[shanti]

67. you know what

fuck walmart. refuse to shop there.

[NoodleyAppendage]

108. RFID has been used by Walmart for years now.

They use RFID to track their bulk shipments around the nation. I think you are referring to their consideration of RFID in the individual products people purchase to track marketing data. I'm not adverse to this as long as I can rip the tracking device out as soon as I purchase it and leave it in the Walmart parking lot.

What's more concerning is the implantation of RFID in people as a means of security identification. To this idea, I say FUCK NO!

JB

[SongOfTheRayne]

157. HOLY SHIT. Just looked that up on Wikipedia...

It has a picture of someone's hand with a chip implanted in it... If Orwell were alive today, he would be shocked by the utter failure of his own pessimistic imagination.

[Why Syzygy]

21. weeel . my bank doesn't know my fingerprint

afaik . so I don't think they could get the right account.

No I don't like this, but welcome to the future.

[Rainscents]

39. My bank don't have my finger print either, unless they got it off the door

on my way into bank... lol :sarcasm:
This finger printing scanning require, you need to have your finger printed with bank first, before they can implement this?

[Why Syzygy]

74. I VOLUNTARILY

gave my fingerprints, whole set, to the state in order to get my "criminal record" (I have no crimes) in order to get an apartment. I GAVE it to them. I was not guily of any crime, ever.
It felt, yes, creepy, after that. Like I just turned over my whole identity to the state.

I don't like that. It isn't as if I'm going to go out and start doing criminal things.
I just felt violated. I feel violated when the bank asks me for a thumbprint. I am who I say I am. I have proper id to prove it. But yet I'm supposed to scan?

I've worked places where you have to have a badge to enter. You scan it, the door opens.
That's a "badge" it isn't "me". I'm in possesion of the badge, so I get to go in.
I just think this is taking it to a way more personal level than makes me comfortable.

But as above thread, the young ones will go for it. It won't be up to us old timers.
They will go along with it. And there is nothing we can do about it.

That's why it does look like a good investment opportunity. One I don't agree with. But then ...

Keep in mind, we have the nation wide scan who you are, driver's license on the agenda. Yes it is coming. All your medical records, who you really are . or ever were . on a piece of strip. And then, it appears, placed into your skin. Why? I will speculate. Because ... I don't really know. More power is probably the answer. Demographics. That is all we are to these people. Demographics. For one reason or another.

[sandnsea]

46. Mine either

And I plan on keeping it that way for as long as possible. I can't think of anything more stupid than using any body part for identification. One of these days some thief will be the first to chop off a finger, and then LOOK OUT!

[Zomby Woof]

51. If you have a fingerprint out there

Who says a bank can't get it? If you are lucky enough to have never had a fingerprint put on file, more power to you.

But don't think for a moment you have any "privacy".

The genie was uncorked long before we were born. I say we either take advantage of that, or live in fear and paranoia.

I choose the former.

By the way, the same thing was said about ATM's when they came around in the 70's. With their cameras and PIN numbers, there was all kinds of hysteria about Big Brother. Maybe it came to pass, and maybe it didn't, but the genie is uncorked, and there is no going back.

Pay By Touch is a CHOICE, not a mandate. Use it or not.

[Why Syzygy]

83. I'll go with your idea

how do we take advantage of that? "We" can't even get an honest vote count. Due to others who misidentify other people in order to get their own way. Any questions? So. Is is this a way to make sure people get to actually cast a vote?

In all honesty, I will probably pay by touch, if it comes to that. I don't have a problem with pin numbers or cards. What went before? Paper checks. Show id. Get 'er done.

I happen to bank where I don't have to fingerprint. I can go in any time and cash a check. They know me. I prefer that method. Yes, you are a banking customer and we respect that. Is that too much to ask?

Do you honestly believe that this will lead to less stealing and less fraud? What are the benefits? Other than you don't have to wear any clothes and can still get into a bar?

Is this to protect the public interests or even anyone's? (home security? . which does not exist, may I remind you) In order to protect the bank. And then what. Like they don't have enough protection already?

There may be going back. Way back.

[shanti]

70. i bank thru a credit union

and they have my print :shrug:

[tritsofme]

24. They've had this at my Chicagoland grocer for several months now

I haven't expressed any interest in it.

[Skittles]

28. I don't understand

you scan your finger AND the card? Otherwise how does it know which card to use? Is this a dumb question?

[Zomby Woof]

37. You scan your card as normal

Then you press your index finger onto a device instead of entering your PIN. Most PINs are 4 digits, but your fingerprint is one in 20 billion on a planet of 6.5 billion.

I'll take the long odds on identity theft myself. But I am a fascist, after all.

[Why Syzygy]

90. You're a fascist?

Isn't that the opposite of a progressive? You know this is getting kind of trite and I'm spending a lot of time on this thread because most threads around here lately bore me.

But you claim to be a fascist?

[Why Syzygy]

30. I get kinda

creeped out when you go into someone else's bank to cash THEIR check and they want your fingerprint.
Of course, maybe fraud is rampant. Or maybe not.

[KitchenWitch]

43. They have started to put those in here too!

Calling George Orwell!

:scared:

[Zomby Woof]

48. How so?

Do you realize we are way beyond any pretense to privacy as is? Cut up your driver's license, shred your Social Security card, and fergawdsakes, don't pay your bills with anything but hard cash! In fact, don't post on the Internet or use email either, because bygawd, Orwell is here! Cut up your debit card too. PIN numbers are the Mark of the Beast!

The level of hysteria over this scanner is ABSURD. Sometimes the Left can be more reactionary and afraid of change as the Right.

[KitchenWitch]

50. I understand your point

but for me it is not such a big jump to giving up my fingerprint, and finding myself framed for a crime, by "fingerprint evidence". Call me paranoid...

[Zomby Woof]

53. Quite a stretch

It's a VOLUNTARY PAYMENT METHOD. It's an alternative, and it could slow down the wave of ID theft. But no one is mandating it. Credit cards didn't outlaw hard cash, did they?

You realize the same shit was said about ATM's 26 or so years ago? And here we are on the Internet, the home of snooping and privacy-stealing.

[KitchenWitch]

54. I know it is a stretch, but that is the way my mind is wired

sorry.

[Why Syzygy]

84. The last fad

the "ua" has turned me down twice. It once proved false positive and the other time false negative.

So, no. I don't ascribe to arbitrary devices. Nevertheless, "they" do.

Catch you anywhich way they can. Gotcha bingo. No. I don't call you paranoid.

[ConsAreLiars]

59. A dollar's worth of Play-Doh and the financial incentive will mean

that this "security system" is more easily hacked than the credit card you carry. See http://www.linuxelectrons.com/article.php/20051209175034721 for the how-to. Rather than providing more security, this is a scam that will open up one more area of vulnerability.

[sheelz]

69. They may start using a finger scanner

as a discount/check cashing card.

[delete_bush]

85. The goal is to eventually do away with

hard currency. We will be "paid" by credits to our account, allowing StateCorp to also track private transactions. The people will go along, as drugs, prostitution, bribery, alcohol, tobacco and other activity detrimental to a moral society can be either eliminated altogether or controlled via pricing/rationing.

Eventually wages will be set at whatever rate they choose, depending on the needs of StateCorp.

[Why Syzygy]

92. Don't even think

they will do away with "illegal" behaviors. They thrive on them. They want more revenues. That is their bread and butter. If not for human "vices", they would not survive. They get you coming and going. They sell it then make you pay "society" (ie the system) for the privilege of indulgence.

There is no way they are looking for "moral".

[delete_bush]

115. Well, they tried prohibition once.

The not-so-underground economy was able to thwart the system, but they had the advantage of currency. If you can only "charge" merchandise and this type purchase is not allowed, then it would be possible to control any industry. Resources allocated for the production of alcohol could be switched to the military, consumer goods, prison construction or whatever they want.

By the way, I'm really not overly concerned about this becoming reality, but it is interesting to speculate.

[Justice Is Comin]

89. Things were better

with a pencil and eraser.

Every time they try to "improve" on something, they make it worse. I don't want to be tracked by anything that doesn't come from my head and I give the information voluntariliy.

This fingerprint scanning is the trial balloon. If they get away with it, it will become mandatory. Next thing you know, somebody will be able to get your fingerprint remotely and track you like an ant farm under glass.

We're heading right for Orwellian doom.

[Peter Frank]

91. Biometrics and Paperless Money are...

...two of the pillars of the new world order.

Go with your gut!

[Peter Frank]

94. Ask yourself & others this...

Why are American citizens asked to jump through seemingly endless "security" hoops -- while our borders are open to whomever cares to wander across!

[laruemtt]

101. you just said it all Peter Frank.

that's the bottom line. if this is about our "security," why ARE the borders wide open. this is so obvious it's painful.

[realFedUp]

104. or enter through 40 tunnels on the California border built since 9/11

nt

[Hubert Flottz]

96. I know which finger I'd have held up!

Yes it's the mark of the bush.

[soothsayer]

99. Interesting since we've learned that fingerprints aren't as unique

as once thought.

[nini]

102. As someone who was a victim of identity theft. I'm all for it

We have to give a thumbprint to get a driver's license, a govt job. We have social securities numbers to track us. Using a voluntary system to scan one's finger print as a form of ID is no worse.

It is voluntary and I for one welcome any technology that will help keep shit heads from stealing money from me.


Believe me - having someone get hold of your account info and being able to forge your signature and wipe out your checking account is no picnic. If they had to put a finger print out there in their purchase it wouldn't have happened.

it's my choice to use this as it's your's not to.


Personally, I have a bigger problem with those tracking systems in cars. Now there's a way for the powers that be to keep an eye on you. How many of you nay-sayers have those in your car?

[MadHound]

118. Little do you know of the ways of thieving friend

Let me get my hands of a scan of your fingerprint. I can pick this up through hacking into those grocery store databases(notoriously insecure) or bank databases(better, but still immenently hackable), or by tapping into the data transmission lines. Once I have a scan of your print, all it takes is a five thousand dollar machine and a drop of latex, and VOILA, I have a copy of your fingerprint. Slip it on my finger, and armed with this and the rest of your ID, I can go on a fine spending spree.

Fingerprint scans are just more false security. They won't protect your ID from the professionals, and at this point in time a lot of the amateurs are out of business. All that this increasing amount of "security" is doing for you is giving over your spending habits to anonymous analyzers on Madison Av, and enabling both corporate and government to continously add to their files on you.

Don't be scammed, fingerprints can be forged.

[nini]

121. Anyone can get ANYTHING if they want

nothing is foolproof.

However, this is a more safe to me than debit cards, checks etc.


To each his own. I personally think the wild hysteria over this is a bit much. But then this is GD and God knows hysteria is the norm.

[MadHound]

124. No, that's what I'm trying to tell you here

It only makes you feel more secure. The reality is that as soon as these print scanners become popular, criminals will indeed start taking advantage of them in large numbers, and your ID will be as insecure as it always was.

The only way to protect your ID is to keep it to yourself, not spread it out willy nilly to every bank, grocery store and mall that offers "convience".

[nini]

127. I understand where you're coming from.. but I see this as an aid

Plenty of people have my SSN already because of work, banking, cell phone loans etc..

The ATM card was frowned up also. I prefer having the card to the check book because it's easier to forge my signature on a check than figure out my pin.

We're already living in a society where ultimate privacy is a joke unless you choose not to participate in the job market etc.

There is no perfect solution. However the reaction in this thread that THIS is the curse of Big Brother is ridiculous when we have the ability to be found by SSN, our jobs, financial records already etc.. Hell, we can be found by using our cell phones. Not to mention those GPS systems in cars.

Technology is going to present us with good and bad. We can choose what we want to use and what not to.

IF we get to the point where the govt implants chips in us then we have plenty to fear and bitch about, BUT that what if should not prohibit new technologies and allowing those of us who choose to use them to do so.

I simply do not fear this particular form of technology. However I do detest the GPS systems.. so go figure.

[KansDem]

103. "She said so far most people think it's a pretty good idea."

I've heard this excuse before.

A couple of years ago when I was working two half-time jobs, I was constantly on the go from one place to another. I opted to be paid by check as opposed to having direct deposit since it was a matter of just swinging by my bank while out and about. Well, one payday I needed to pay a bill right after I got off work but couldn't get to my bank in time to cash my check so I could pay the bill, so I looked into having my paycheck cashed at my employer's bank just a short walk from where I was working. So I went on my lunch hour, thinking I'd have the cash and could go directly to pay my bill after work.

I endorsed the check and handed it to the teller. She asked me if I had an account with them. I said "no, but my employer does." She said I needed to provide a fingerprint before she would cash the check. I asked, somewhat incredulously, even if my employer has an account with them? She said yes. I said that this check represented money due me by my employer, and I just wanted to redeem this "certificate" for the cash that was rightfully mine. She said only if I gave them a fingerprint.

I turned and walked away. When I got back to work I called them to complain about this policy. I told them I wanted only to redeem the check for money due me by a client of theirs. The person I talked with, a PR person, said "Well, since we started doing this, many businesses said they think it's a good idea. They find it cuts down on criminal activity." I said, "Well, if you really want to cut down on crime, put everybody in jail. I guarantee you, if everybody's in jail, there will be no crime on the streets!"

I got nowhere with the bank, but I do believe the fingerprint requirement has fallen somewhat by the wayside. I am a little concerned about the use of this device for debit cards.

[Why Syzygy]

111. I had to give a thumbprint

to Bank One to cash a check drawn from their bank in 1992. This isn't new.
Choose your bank carefully.

[KansDem]

114. I thought it odd that this wasn't a personal check, but one of their own!

It wasn't like I was wanting to cash a personal check, or a third-party check, but a check drawn on one of their accounts. I don't know what the hassle was, but they could've seen it was one of their own checks (or rather, one of their client's). If I write a personal check to someone who then takes it to my bank, I don't think they're required to surrender a fingerprint. Either the money's there or it isn't! :shrug:

Just don't understand it...

[Why Syzygy]

117. I don't either

But I know in certain banks I will have to surrender a thumbprint to cash a check on THEIR bank customer's account. I don't like those banks. A small local bank does not require that, ime.
More reason to keep your business local.

[ryan_cats]

106. Wait until they find dead bodies with their fingers cut off

Wait until they find dead bodies with their fingers cut off.

Things like this remind me of Wesley Snipes in Demolition Man where he cuts out the warden's eyeball and puts it in front of the security scanner.

[City Lights]

110. I saw those the other day when I was at Jewel.

Brand spankin' new finger print scanners at every register. Count me out.

[EC]

116. It's creepy.... n/t

119. no more privacy - hello orwell n/t

[gatorboy]

122. Convenience over personal privacy rights.

Hey...It's the American way!

[Jim Warren]

123. Great sabotage arena

Hmmmm, I wonder just what all you could carry on a finger to fusck these things up............

[Guaranteed]

149. Or permanently plant someone else's print on it.

Run up a whole lot of charges to someone in no time.

[movie_girl99]

125. holy shi*t..what state are you in? n/t

[borlis]

126. suburban Chicago n/t

[tritsofme]

145. We've had this at the Jewels in Schaumburg since the fall

I find it very creepy, and want nothing to do with it.

[slackmaster]

129. Sounds unsanitary

:argh:

[meisje]

142. unlike a doorknob

[slackmaster]

156. I rarely touch doorknobs in public places

:puke:

I'm one of those wierdos who exits public restrooms clutching a clean paper towel, and whenever possible uses his elbow to push doors open.

I'll be damned if I'm going to put my finger on a gadget that dozens or hundreds of other people have touched, unless it gets wiped clean first.

[nini]

130. How many of you who fear this use GPS, a cell phone, an ATM ..

use a credit card to buy things..etc..?

If you think this is a bigger threat than technology that already exists then you must not understand how everything is tied together these days.

NO ONE HAS COMPLETE PRIVACY ANYMORE. Those days have been over since before most of us were born.

[T Town Jake]

136. Okay, I think some of this is creepy, too...BUT--->

...one of the good things about this kind of invention/device doesn't have anything to do with trendy party boys/girls flitting from trendy club to club, or even with buying groceries, but for important data that can be utilized by medical personnel when treating injured people, among other life-saving uses.

It also has the potential to go a long ways to wards curbing identity theft and credit card fraud.

I think those are good things, on balance, though the concept still does creep me out.

[DawgHouse]

137. I haven't seen this but I'm sure it's coming my way.

Yes, I think it's creepy strange,too!

[sheelz]

138. My last employer

had a finger scanner on our time clock. :grr:

[Toucano]

139. You don't have to use it.

At least not until they decide to eliminate currency because this is so "convenient".

[Nikki Stone 1]

148. Creepy enough to recommend

:kick:

[SongOfTheRayne]

150. INGSOC needs the information.

The Ministry of Truth has to be kept up to date on these things, you understand...Oh, and the chocolate ration went up today, too. :)

[upi402]

152. Lionel Ritchie knows where you shop

Yeah, put me down for 'it's whacked out creepy'.

[Minnesota Libra]

151. REAL CREEPY.....nt

[earth mom]

158. Yikes! Can't believe some people think this is okay.

Guess they have stock in the company that's behind this. :puke:

I feel sorry for anyone that can't understand the implications and the coming misuse of it. :scared: