Per law: Middle school rape victims in S.D. MUST bear their babies.

[elehhhhna]

The ONLY exception is the LIFE of the mother. Not future fertility, mental health, indeed, not even quadriplegia if thats'what your high-risk birth involves. The woman's death must be imminent, and btw, if the doc's wrong he's GOING TO JAIL.

When the depleted-uranium baby ultrasounds come back, too bad.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Can they take this to the SCOTUS? Sounds like a flawed state law!

[Avalux]

3. Yes and that's probably the intent.

It will go to SCOTUS, then the real battle will begin.

[BlueEyedSon]

7. Duh.

[eyesroll]

4. That's the intent.

The intent isn't to ban abortions right now -- the intent is to get this heard by the SCOTUS so Roe is overturned (or chipped away) by the new court.

[BlueEyedSon]

9. Duh.

[arcane1]

26. or at least have it dominate the 2006 election cycle..

regardless of the eventual outcome, we'll have this issue hammered over our heads for the rest of the year

[dusty64]

64. I don't see how this

benefits the rightwing. This ought to backfire in a really big way. Heartless law written by someone who states women are nothing but walking wombs and baby makers. No exception for rape or abuse, possible parental rights for rapists. Don't let them fool you the majority do NOT want government in our bodies and bedrooms and most support the right to choice and birth control. Lets hit em back where it hurts, the people do not want big intrusive government and this is exactly what the extremists in the rethug party believe in.

[katinmn]

5. This signing challenges current federal law. I think that was the intent

to bring it before the supreme court to change the current law.

[BlueEyedSon]

10. And double duh.

[katinmn]

11. Don't take it so hard!

:rofl:

When I've done that, I just sort of slink off and hope no one noticed. :) You're a bigger man than I am.

[Radio_Guy]

8. It probably will reach the SCOTUS

But the pro-reich wing SCOTUS will back the S.D. law and Roe will in all likelyhood be overturned. We need to take to the streets and protest loud!

[BlueEyedSon]

12. I think I knew this, if I had stopped to think.....

[treestar]

63. Robert, Scalia, Thomas and Alito, but which one of Souter,

Ginsburg, Breyer, Stevens and Kennedy?

[Pacifist Patriot]

13. Ever since I first learned of it I have wondered if...

there isn't a specific case in mind. I don't know much about the supposedly-Democrat woman who sponsored the bill but perhaps she feels it could not stand up to a court challenge and that's why she did it? I don't know. Sounds risky but definitely on track for SCOTUS.

[colinmom71]

32. That's the entire aim of this law....

The intent was to push through a patently unconstitutional law in order to challenge Roe v. Wade through the federal appellate courts.

It's a huge win-win situtation for the national Republican delegation. They get to tout their pro-life stance to their fundamentalist and anti-abortion supporters by supporting this attempt to circumvent Constitutional precedence. If this effort to topple Roe is successful (which is unlikely), they get to take political credit for what Republicans in SD have done and enjoy continued support from the above mentioned groups.

And if the effort is not successful, as is more likely, they get to blame "activist judges" and continue to provoke support from the fundies and anti-abortion groups, stringing them along a losing battle in order to gain votes. Like I said, it's win-win...

The sad part is, a lot of Republicans in SD will never see how NON-conservative this ploy is and how they are being used. Working to pass legislation they know is going to be defeated, Republicans have set up the state resources of SD to do the dirty work for them. They gain "political capital" without having to spend a dime, because it will be the folks of SD whose tax dollars will have to be spent for the expensive legal battle to the SCOTUS. A true fiscally conservative person wouldn't stage a wasteful and futile battle on the public dime...

[Canuckistanian]

44. That's the whole reason

They want another SC challenge. Now that Scalito and Robertson are in, a split decision will mean "victory" for them.

Thanks, Joe Lieberman!

[BOSSHOG]

2. The punishment does not fit the crime

as would have been defined by the religious zealots who own the SD legislature. They equate abortion with murder. A five year prison sentence for murder? I hope this is used as a precedent in sentencing phases of murder trials.

[libodem]

6. OMG that is sad

some little girls start menstruating at age 10. What if it is a molestation case. Lord Almighty.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. This bill supports RAPE and INCEST.

A 10 year old little girl MUST give birth to her daddy's baby if she is viciously raped by him. These people are some of the sickest pieces of shit I've ever come across. i will NEVER visit SD. They will NEVER get one cent of my money....ever.:grr:

[LisaLynne]

42. Not to mention that there are ...

serious physical consequences that can arise from having a baby before your body has really developed. Starting menstration does not mean that a girl is ready to give birth. I can not begin to express how sickening this is.

[elehhhhna]

52. youth pregnancy & delivery is in itsself considered "high risk".

[pocket]

14. even * has said he won't support this law

for the reasons mentioned.

[Jara sang]

15. Let the state be populated by a bunch of 'Hills Have Eyes' fuckers.

Inbreeding is a direct cause of Republican values.

[Mz Pip]

16. It's a horrible law

but I was talking to a friend from Minnesota who said there's only one clinic that does abortions in South Dakota and most women go to Minnesota for abortions anyway.

So all is not lost, yet. Where all of this will end up is problematic. The vote to keep Roe was 6-3. Now it will be 5-4. It probably won't get shot down until Stevens retires, an only then if there's a fundie Repug moron in the WH when he does.

I am hoping some of these old liberal can hold on a while longer.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Nikki Stone 1]

22. Don't comfort yourself by saying SD only had one abortion clinic anyway

The SCOTUS 1989 decision, the Webster decision, diluted Roe v. Wade to the point where states could monkey with abortion rights. Everyone said, don't worry. Roe V. Wade still stands. It was the Webster decision, comboned with an emboldened "Operation Rescue" and other clinic/physician attackers that resulted in the reduction of abortion clinics to such small numbers.

Without Webster, abortion services would be much more plentiful than they are today.

I hear that same false comfort in the discussions today. "Don't worry" etc.

Bullshit. This is the endgame, people.

[Mz Pip]

27. I'm not willing to accept

total defeat before this law even works its way through the courts. That will take time and I do hope that people will start waking up to the kind of people they have ignorantly put in office.

I am NOT saying "Don't worry." I never said that. I am saying that the voters need to turn this thing around by voting out of office any governor or legislator that supports this kind of legislation.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Nikki Stone 1]

56. Sometimes, false comfort stops action. I've seen it. But as long as you

are planning to fight, good on ya!

:)

[lastliberalintexas]

29. You can't count on Kennedy in this case

Kennedy has consistently voted with the majority when it comes to keeping abortion legal, but he has yet to meet a state regulation of abortion that he doesn't like. He could go either way on this one, since it obviously outlaws abortion but will be spun as a mere regulation. We'll be lucky if this case stays 5-4 in our favor.

[fasttense]

17. A new criminal activity. Go out and rape girls then charge them

outrageous amounts to get a back alley abortion. Wow, a sicko's paradise.

[Occulus]

24. Double the money here, please

I can't get married. In some places, I can't even adopt, or be a foster parent. But in SD, I can rape a woman- thus guaranteeing the survival of my gay cooties- and there's nothing at all anyone can do about that.

Hooray!

EXTREME :sarcasm:

[infogirl]

18. Nothing in the bill for

rape or incest???????????????? They will have to keep the data then,,,and I do believe they have been avoiding the tracking of incest data all along. Don't want to go there. If this bill stands...they will have to.

:popcorn:

[elehhhhna]

Nothing.

[elehhhhna]

20. Nothing.

[newyawker99]

40. Hi infogirl!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[baldguy]

19. the GOP: the Rapist Rights party

[ArbustoBuster]

37. That's a turn of phrase that needs to be pushed into the media.

Hit the Republicans where it hurts.

[truebrit71]

43. Exactly. For too long we've let these sick fucks frame the debate...

..this "law" whilst being repugnant in its' enterity, FORCES VICTIMS OF RAPE AND INCEST TO BEAR THE FRUIT OF THAT RAPE....

That is blatantly unconstitutional, and will be over-turned on those grounds.

HOWEVER...Until such time as the court strikes this down, we need to sing it loud and clear that the GOP favours the rights of the rapists and and perverts over women....This is NOT about 'protecting' the lives of innocents, as they claim, but rather the protection of rapists...in the same way that they have framed "partial-birth abortions", this needs to be framed as the "rapists rights bill"...

Period.

[silverweb]

21. Population drop?

As of 2000, the population of the entire state of SD was 754,844 -- less than many cities. I wonder what it's going to drop to with this new draconian law? Betcha women and girls who are neither brainwashed nor imprisoned will be exiting ASAP.

[bullimiami]

23. this is exactly what we feared when we screamed about roberts and alito

and the weak kneed, backstabbing democrat bastards that wouldnt fight to filibuster let us down, big time.

[FlaGranny]

25. I wonder if the next thing will be

visitation and other parental rights for the rapist.

[Nikki Stone 1]

28. Can we please get one of these SD threads on the Greatest page?

Are women not important enough?

[lastliberalintexas]

31. Or if not for the rapist, for his parents

In some states grandparents can sue for visitation rights as well. I don't know what the laws are in SD, but that nightmare could certainly be a possibility.

[bleedingheart]

30. I forsee those with money being driven to other states for an abortion

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. K & R! n/t

[Wanet]

35. There was a South Dakota legislator

speaking on the Lehrer News Hour last Friday, describing how the rape of a young girl could be considered life-threatening, and therefore her abortion could still be allowed by this law. His detail in describing the rape (ripping, sodomizing, brutal)--he went on at length--made me wonder about his fantasy life. I grew up in South Dakota, and I can't believe that "The Handmaid's Tale" is startiing in my home state.

[sarahlee]

48. Best quote and link posted below

And what is horrifying is how much the guy seemed to be enjoying his rape fantesy

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Ugh I can't stand these people!

Why don't they leave people the hell a lone?! Don't like abortion don't have one! How hard is it?!

[MoonRiver]

38. Soon, only stupid inbred neanderthal throwbacks will inhabit red states.

Smart people will flock to blue states, Canada and Europe. Natural selection is alive and well in the old USofA.

[Hubert Flottz]

39. "Middle school rape victims in S.D. MUST bear their babies"

We might run out of Mormon children otherwise.

Denominations in the Mormon movement

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

snip...

"Utah state Senator Ron Allen says: 'We have thousands of women pulled out of school at an early age, forced into marriages with older men, kept isolated from society, constantly impregnated, and often placed on public assistance with no financial means of their own. They are forgotten citizens facing abuse and fear. On top of it all, the victims are constantly taught that God is just pleased as punch about the whole deal. It has to stop'."

"Salt Lake City writer John Llewellyn, a former fundamentalist Mormon, says: 'The key factor in controlling a polygamist cult is in brainwashing the young women to inculcate upon their impressionable minds that everything not condoned by the prophet is evil, that they cannot go to the celestial kingdom unless they live in a plural marriage, and that the gates of heaven will be closed to the disobedient'."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/flds.htm


This page contains information The Rick A. Ross Institute has
gathered about Polygamist Groups.

http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html

Woman Who Escaped Polygamous Sect Revisits Past
Laurene Jessop Confronts Husband Who Also Married Her Sister -- Will She Forgive Him?

ABC Primetime/March 1, 2006

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy419.html

Polygamist Cult Operates Farm In Nevada
Associated Press/February 23, 2006

Salt Lake City -- A large hay farm is being operated 30 miles north of Pioche, Nevada, by followers of the fugitive leader of a polygamist cult.

Investigators are trying to determine if farm equipment and even buildings were illegally moved to the farm from the cult's largest enclave which is on the Utah-Arizona border.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy418.html

Doctor: Birth defects increase in inbred polygamy community

Associated Press/February 10, 2006

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy417.html

Colorado City runaway in state protective custody
Utah AG acts quickly to keep 17-year-old safe

The Spectrum/January 18, 2004
By Jane Zhang

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy155.html

Wives suing to bring end to abuse under polygamy

Emmanuel Lozano/The Arizona Republic
Judy Nichols
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 15, 2003

Polygamist wives who gather the courage to run from beatings, rapes and illegal "spiritual" unions are beginning to use a time-tested tactic to fight back.

They're starting to sue. For millions.

http://www.ruralwomyn.net/polygamy_2004_02.html

Polygamous Sects

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a sect of Mormonism, and America's largest polygamous group. The current leader of the church is Warren Jeffs, who became leader on the death of his father, Rulon Jeffs in 2002. The headquarters are in Hildale, Utah, which is a twin city with Colorado City, Arizona.

http://www.polygamyinfo.com/sects-FLDS.htm

Utah Struggles With a Revival of Polygamy

http://www.ishipress.com/utah-pol.htm

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

Pushing for Polygamy

Multiple marriage isn’t such a distant step away from gay marriage as many pretend.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/basham200504180745.asp

(This one is really sad)

helpthechildbrides.com

http://helpthechildbrides.com/

"Help the Child Brides" Challenges Senator Orrin Hatch's statements about polygamists

On April 17, 2003 at a public meeting in Saint George UT, Senator Hatch responded to a question from Bob Curran of HTCB by saying he had many friends in the polygamous enclave of Hildale UT and that he didn't believe anything wrong was going on there. This story was picked up by the press, including
a Deseret News story , and a St. George Spectrum story,

http://helpthechildbrides.com/news/hatch/hatchtext.htm

Hope For The Child Brides

Caroline Cooke

15 year old Caroline Cooke ran away from her home in April, 2001 because she was going to be forced to become a Child Bride. Caroline was facing an arranged marriage to 45 year old Warren Jeffs, son of the FLDS prophet, Rulon Jeffs. Caroline decided to run away instead. Caring people intervened on her behalf and were able to get an uncle of Caroline’s, who is not a polygamist, to file for a power of attorney and take custody of her. She now lives with her uncle’s family is attending school. Caroline is one of the lucky ones to escape.

Below are some articles discussing Caroline's ordeal to escape becoming a Child Bride.

http://www.childbrides.org/caroline.html

This is a sad thing that is going on in our western states. Human rights means NOTHING to these PIGS!

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. Well, I heard that a South Dakota college was pursuing a particularly

great athlete we know, but she turned them down. You ask me, she dodged a bullet. I'm sure many college athletes who aren't use to that level of State meddling will do the same.

[Disturbed]

45. No need for panic just yet.

This rediculous Bill may be struck down by the SD SC or another Court on it's route. It will take at least a year for this to reach the Natl. SC and even then the Court may refuse to accept the case. Other states will craft similar Bills and those won't reach SC for a year, at least. In my view, it would be wise to focus on the Congressional Elections now.

[KyndCulture]

46. See the new sticker I just bought in my sig... nt....

[sarahlee]

47. Just in case anyone reading missed this

From:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/abortion_3-03.html

Exceptions:

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Napoli says most abortions are performed for what he calls "convenience." He insists that exceptions can be made for rape or incest under the provision that protects the mother's life. I asked him for a scenario in which an exception may be invoked.

BILL NAPOLI: A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life.

Note that his exception seems to require that the woman is a religious virgin, "saving herself for marriage". How do they expect to determine that?

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Rounds prefers a less sweeping approach to restricting abortion; he says it would more likely pass legal muster. Still, the governor said the new law would be a good thing as a rallying cry for antiabortion forces.

GOV. ROUNDS: For those individuals that would feel discouraged that say, "Gee, we could have eliminated Roe v. Wade, but we've never had an opportunity in the last 15 years to do so," this is an opportunity to say, "See, there it is. The court may or may not, but it'll take us three years to find out." In the meantime, let's continue to work at chipping away at Roe v. Wade one step at a time.

STATE REP. ELAINE ROBERTS (D), SOUTH DAKOTA: We've chipped, and chipped, and chipped; now we're here with this full fledge. What will be next? What will be next?

Bring Back Shotgun Weddings

BILL NAPOLI: When I was growing up here in the wild west, if a young man got a girl pregnant out of wedlock, they got married, and the whole darned neighborhood was involved in that wedding. I mean, you just didn't allow that sort of thing to happen, you know? I mean, they wanted that child to be brought up in a home with two parents, you know, that whole story. And so I happen to believe that can happen again.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: You really do?

BILL NAPOLI: Yes, I do. I don't think we're so far beyond that, that we can't go back to that.

Pro-Choice people are starting to call this the 2006 Rapists Parenthood Act. Rapists have rights in only 1 state....South Dakota. Everywhere else, the victim has rights....not in South Dakota.

Please help out with the SD Boycott!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=217&topic_id=3294&mesg_id=3294
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=497026&mesg_id=510894

[sarahlee]

51. Crooks and Liars has the tape of Napoli and his sick little rant

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/06.html#a7412

It is also up at PBS
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/abortion_3-03.html

[Beaverhausen]

53. So if a woman is brutally raped but is not a virgin...

but still injured the way this sick fuck describes, then I guess she has to pay the price of having already had sex.

Because only virgins are "messed up" by being raped?

Asshole. :mad:

[sarahlee]

62. Note that she needs to be a RELIGIOUS virgin

and she needs to have been saving herself for marriage.

[EVDebs]

49. What kind of welfare laws does SD have ? Just curious about the burden

THAT will put on the state.

[sarahlee]

50. Scant Drop Seen in Abortion Rate if Parents Are Told

Supporters of the laws say they promote better decision-making and reduce teenage abortions; opponents say they chip away at abortion rights and endanger young lives by exposing them to potentially violent reaction from some parents.

But some workers and doctors at abortion clinics said that the laws had little connection with the real lives of most teenagers, and that they more often saw parents pressing their daughters to have abortions than trying to stop them. And many teenagers say they never considered hiding their pregnancies or abortion plans from their mothers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/06/national/06abortion.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1141676971-ZYGN71Xua8EuPO7P1sZx/A&pagewanted=print&oref=login

[Pachamama]

54. You mean this law doesn't even have an exception to allow a woman to abort

a deformed fetus who has a birth defect? Does this law mean that women would have to carry all of these babies to full term?

:wow: OMG....This and the fact that rape victims and victims of incest are forced to bringing these pregnancies to full term is beyond outrageous.... :scared: :puke:

[colinmom71]

57. That would be correct...

Although there is a way around that. Inducing labor early is not technically considered an abortion, so in such a situation, an obstetrician can present induction as an option in such a case either before viability or afterwards and the parents can then elect to not pursue critical medical care. Keep in mind that many fetuses with deformities and/or genetic disorders can often reach medical viability later than developmentally normal fetuses and sometimes even not at all.

But yeah, it's absolutely cruel to force a woman to carry to term a baby that she already knows will die upon it's birth. Considering how often others like to compliment the expectant mother and ask "when are you due", etc... Imagine having to answer that question with, "The day before the funeral...".

ETA: I just read the thread on Missouri's proposed abortion ban and it does seem to cover inductions pre-viability. The SD law may as well, but I haven't seen the full text so I can't say for sure. But an induction for the purposes of live birth and then not pursuing critical care may still be an option in SD. Missouri already has a mandatory resuscitation order for all newborns.

[against all enemies]

55. Please all women leave South Dakota at 18. If they don't already.

Or are most women in SD religious nuts?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Even if they are raped by a family member

No exception for incest. That is the part that blows my mind.

[elehhhhna]

61. Even if they're 10 years old.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Sadly, I know of one too many girls that age who have been pregnant.

And every single one was raped by a family member or Mom's boyfriend.

[killbotfactory]

59. If the democrats want to win, they just need to say:

"If someone rapes your wife, daughter, or mother, Republicans would force them to give birth to their rapists child."

Not popular.

[colinmom71]

60. And that their laws do not prevent the rapist...

From asserting parental rights over the child resulting from rape.

[upi402]

65. Dems really should have filibustered Scalito

:shrug:
It'll be a long time until we have hope in *that* court reflecting the public norms in its interpretation of contitutional law.

[LeftHander]

68. DING DING ding...open the door and the dogs run in...

Dems had the opportunity to tell the dickhead fundies that CHOICE was not optional and the PRESIDENTIAL power was not absolute. But instead the moderates in the party rolled over and let the necons fuck them a good one.

It is going to be a long time for Aemrica to stop feeling the pain of THAT rape.

[upi402]

70. I put Planned Parenthood in the SPAM box thanks to DINOs

did all I could do and was betrayed yet again. One less battle to spread my efforts amongst.

[marzipanni]

66. When does Wal-Mart start selling chastity belts? n/t

[sarahlee]

67. Solidarity Day with South Dakota - March 9th

Have you heard about the amazing day taking place this Thursday, March 9th?

Planned Parenthood Federation of America has named Thursday, March 9th National Solidarity Day with South Dakota. Rallies are being planned across the nation. In Sioux Falls a rally will be held at 12pm noon at the Federal Courthouse. Please take your lunch hour to come and stand up for the women of South Dakota!

http://grassroots-sd.org/msite/

[Beaverhausen]

71. Tuesday kick

[DarkTirade]

72. And of course middle schoolers don't have a liscense yet,

so they can't even drive to the next state over.