The only moral abortion is my abortion!

[nolies32fouettes]

Stories from anti-choice people.

http://www.progressiveu.org/164722-the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion

(A little hypocracy goes a long way!)

[Random_Australian]

1. Oh my... n/t

[nolies32fouettes]

36. Because of this thread...(see below), I've written a new one, (see below)

http://www.progressiveu.org/203316-south-dakota-abortion-ban-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest

New one:

http://www.progressiveu.org/160000-sexual-violence-against-women-in-society

[nolies32fouettes]

65. Important...please read this one too! It needs to get out too.

http://www.progressiveu.org/160000-sexual-violence-against-women-in-society

I really put my heart and soul into writing this one! So read this too, please...

[Richard Steele]

2. Kicked and recommended.

[Wickerman]

3. kick for the queens of the reaction formation

:kick:

Description

Reaction Formation occurs when a person feels an urge to do or say something and then actually does or says something that is effectively the opposite of what they really want. It also appears as a defense against a feared social punishment. If I fear that I will be criticized for something, I very visibly act in a way that shows I am personally a long way from the feared position.

A common pattern in Reaction Formation is where the person uses ‘excessive behavior’, for example using exaggerated friendliness when the person is actually feeling unfriendly.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/reaction_formation.htm

[nolies32fouettes]

6. really good analysis!

I'll have to check out your website.

Thanks.

[politicaholic]

4. K&R - interesting

The poverty arguement gets me every time.

[nolies32fouettes]

8. thank you for the k and r!

[Solly Mack]

5. But of course!

I got mine - but it was a mistake - or I feel bad now - or I learned my lesson - and now it's time for me to save you from yourself!

I'm the wiser one who knows what's best for you - learn from my mistakes! Let me guide you away from wickedness!


Sure, I left skid marks getting to the abortion clinic when the stick turned blue....but let me prevent you from making my mistake. If I can just stop you then I can undo everything I feel guilty about. You're my salvation!

[ray of light]

16. You nailed it! BUT they could prevent abortion so much easier

and make it rare if they taught many things more accurately:

abstenence, sex ed, prevention, day after pill, my goodness--even giving out birthcontrol instead of withholding it! good jobs, healthcare, food, support, good schools, HOPE!

They take all that away and make you sign an abstenence note as if that does any good!

[Solly Mack]

23. I don't believe - for a single second - that those folks care

about "life" ...abortion/sex/birth control are just weapons they use in the attempt to control women.

[tavalon]

66. Bingo

That's why I refuse to use their framing - they are not "pro-life", they are "anti-choice"

[Canuckistanian]

48. Abstinence is not an answer for most people

We are sexual beings. "Food and sex are human nature", is an old Chinese saying.

To deny this is reckless folly.

[nolies32fouettes]

7. Everyone who recommended, thank you!!! thank you! thank you!!!!

Here's the thread from earlier today, if you would like to post a comment on either thread, please feel free to do so!

http://www.progressiveu.org/203316-south-dakota-abortion-ban-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest

[DemonGoddess]

9. k & r

[Avalon Sparks]

10. With the many abortion subjects tonight...

I also thought "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" should be posted. I just found the article then I found your post. :) Thanks for posting.

Great minds, huh?

This article blows me away everytime...

[nolies32fouettes]

13. Yeh, me too!

And sadly the abortion threads always get the "fundies' who have no compassion for rape victims telling us about these poor little...yet they can't seem to understand the quality of LIFE, or the damage of rapes and incest! It's so frustrating!

[BoneDaddy]

11. That was very provacative

Thanks. I felt myself pulled in many different emotional directions while reading that.

[nolies32fouettes]

14. thanks! I've had some writers block with all this stress but this

story really jumped out at me.

[Jade Fox]

12. This story is typical of a common occurance.....

in clinics which provide abortion, so I've heard. Namely, self-described Right-to-Lifers coming in to get the procedure for themselves or their daughters. They have some explanation like this:

"I'm against abortion, but my husband was laid off and hasn't been able to get work, and we already have three kids, and we're about to lose our house, and I JUST CAN'T HAVE ANOTHER CHILD! But, I'm against abortion."

These abortion opponents think their case is special. They don't get that the choice either exists for everyone or no one.

[nolies32fouettes]

15. I agree!

It's so frustrating! Like NOBODY really choses to have an abortion over the other option when circumstances are right: food on the table, good reliable jobs, safety, etc...

[Jade Fox]

21. There is an idea which has been spread by...

anti-abortionists that a whole lot of women are using abortion as their birth control method. I've even seen this belief tossed around here on DU. That is just silly. Abortion is a medical procedure requiring anesthesia. How many of us would seek out that sort of medical procedure on a regular basis rather than employ Birth Control? This is part of the Right's attempt to convince those who don't know better that women who end up in abortion clinics are hedonistic, lazy, selfish sluts.

[ray of light]

24. Actually, I know people in 'red' states who do this!

AND who are the states who refuse to TEACH birth control?

[Jade Fox]

26. As I've said many times here on DU....

the true agenda of the Anti-Abortionists is to control and punish other people's sexual behavior. If they really wanted to stop abortions, they would be pressuring drug companies and the government to develop safer, easier to use birth control methods, and would be working to make sure that all children are responsibly educated about sex before they hit puberty.

[nolies32fouettes]

45. I agree.

[BoneDaddy]

52. Well said

That does seem rather inconsistent to me too. Here they are vehemently anti-abortion yet they refuse contraception. You are right it makes NO sense whatsoever.
It really does come down to controlling how people think and what they do.

[IsIt1984Yet]

67. I just got into this argument with a friend. It made me evaluate things.

I sent him this email after a heated IM conversation in which he used this as his ONLY rational "too many women use it as birth control!!":

See.... I am a woman. And I think woman should be valued.

Yes, XXXX, grown-ups who engage in sex without contraception or even WITH contraception (in the case of failure) face the potential of conception. And choices should exist. Not everyone should be a parent or is in a position to be a parent when this situation arises. Choices can be made and people learn from them. Is there abuse? Yes... but there's abuse with everything. That abuse should not be a reason to take a potential decision away from every other women faced with a life-altering situation.

The assumption that I, or the majority, or fuck, ANY women use it as a 'form of birth control' is a weak argument and a sad glimpse of how little you value the ability of a woman to make a sound decision. That argument is the one that kicked me into pissed off mode. Your argument that too many women use it as birth control and that it should be banned is literally saying that women as a whole can't be trusted with the decision. And, as a result of poor judgement from TWO people, she must now carry a child to term and deliver a child and either raise a child or put the child into a world with millions of already unwanted and uncared for children. Yes, I find that argument weak and sad and I find it sad that you feel that way.

At the most basic level, the abortion issue is not really about abortion. It is about the value of women in society. Should women make their own decisions about family, career, and how to live their lives? Or should government do that for them? Do women have the option of deciding when or whether to have children? Or is that a government decision? Are society and the government on such a moral high ground that they can simply make these decisions for women?

Women can now select their own paths in society, including when and whether to have children. Family planning, contraception, and, if need be, legal abortion are critical to sustaining women's freedom. There is no going back.

Sorry you got into the discussion with such a flaming liberal feminist pinko slut? :eyes:

I haven't heard back from him yet. This is a guy I've known for 7 years. Oddly, the discussion had never come up before. He's known my political views, but abortion as an issue hadn't been discussed until SD's bonehead move yesterday.

Now I will fight my battles and call people out on their misogyny and bullshit. I promise.

[eleonora]

17. I am in complete disgust of those people

They are so stupid the mind boggles.

[IronLionZion]

19. They don't get it that everyone else may have the same problems

[Jade Fox]

22. See my post #21....n/t

[Mnemosyne]

18. The pro- back alley abortionist brigade are such hypocrites.

If back alley abortions are going to be good enough for everyone else, why not them? :sarcasm: I am glad they at least had the sense to have safe abortions rather than doing anything dangerous. It doesn't have to be this way. :(

I hope the new South Dakota law doesn't help with the overturning of Roe v. Wade but I see no way that the issue will not come before the court now. That was the plan wasn't it?

Why can't they just mind their own business?:grr:

[Coexist]

20. Amazing

k and r

[Warren DeMontague]

25. I should be able to control MY body... AND yours!

It's amazing how perncious that attitude is. I've even seen some folks (who claim to be "pro-choice", no less) here echo various versions of it.

[nolies32fouettes]

27. Just a reminder, nobody is pushing abortion as the FIRST choice!

Of course abstenence or safe sex would be most important. Then adoption. OR if we could help an unwed mother by taking her in until she was safely able to put the child up for adoption or raise the child in a safe and healthy environment. Abortion is nOT the first and only choice. We all agree to that.

So maybe we need to make sure THEY know we'd be willing to help young girls see other options first, but ONLY as long as she's safe and she's able to be nurtured. DO NOT force rape or incest victims to go back to the same destructive environment!

[Lars39]

28. It's none of your business why a woman wants or needs an abortion.

[nolies32fouettes]

31. um..lars...read the whole post!

I was simply showing how we can show the anti-choice people that we have MORE compassion and recognition of the whole decision process than their onesize fits all.

So I suppose YOU can tell them "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS" and that is YOUR Choice; however, it would be my choice to share the stories of the people who I PERSONALLY KNOW who welcomed a frightened pregnant teenager into their home until that person was able to leave. She didn't have a home to go back to, since dear daddy knocked her up.

Stories like this humanize us!

And allows us to show that we sincerely DO BELIEVE IN BOTH LIFE AND CHOICE!

[Lars39]

32. There are women who even as young desperate teens know

that they do not want to have children.
Why should a woman have to justify to someone why she wants an abortion? It is a privacy issue.
Are we going to have to go back to the days when there was a committee to decide if the woman "deserved" an abortion just to save her life? It looks like it, if SD and all the pending legislation is any indication.

There's nothing wrong with sharing stories, but the hardcore anti-choicers aren't going to change their minds concerning abortion. In case you haven't noticed, they are working to redefine conception so that they can also outlaw birth control.

[nolies32fouettes]

33. hardcore anti choicers will not change. But the middle ground is

what we need to keep them on our side. We can humanize our side by sharing stories and showing we have compassion for both the choice and the result of the choice.

Frankly, both abortion and adoption are heartwrenching choices. And I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

[nolies32fouettes]

34. also, look at the comments here:

http://www.progressiveu.org/203316-south-dakota-abortion-ban-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest

You can see that I am pro-choice and agree with your comment about privacy etc...however, I still think that we need to humanize our compassion and not let it be reframed into 'murderers' as peppermint does in this thread.

[Maddy McCall]

29. kick

. and recommended.

[nolies32fouettes]

30. Thank you for sharing that story!

This women clearly was overcome with guilt. She knows she slept around so she judges others. She found God to 'appease her' sense of shame and guilt so now she wraps that cloak around her as if that will bring back her worthyness.

IMO, it doesn't. I'm an athiest; however, I was raised by parents who told us that God loves all of us for who we are, not what religion we have.

[Maddy McCall]

39. Hi, nolies.

I apologize for putting this in its own thread. I agree with your appraisal of her, though. Indeed, I think your appraisal is dead on.

[nolies32fouettes]

40. Where's the link?

[Maddy McCall]

41. Here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x591457

[nolies32fouettes]

47. thankyou. I k'r'd your thread.

[IndyOp]

35. "I think today’s society is missing a lot of compassion."

That statement sums it up for me. I am working my way through a unit on Social Psychology with my IntroPsych classes. We talked about defensive attributions - how we sometimes blame the victim to feel like it won't happen to us - and I related it to poverty. I gave them a chance to write a brief opinion statement about who might think that poverty is the fault of the poor and the general consensus was that everyone thinks that way and that it is a good thing. Telling homeless people who ask for money to "GO GET A JOB!" is the right thing to do.

:cry:

[wicket]

37. K & R

:kick:

[IndyOp]

38. I have never met a group of purely non-judgmental people like yourselves.

This is incredible:

Some anti-choice women who have abortions do make peace with their decision and even become pro-choice, or at least more forgiving of other women seeking abortions. A Louisiana patient who was anti-choice before her abortion, wrote a warm and grateful thank-you letter to the clinic, admitting that she had been a hypocrite:

"I never dreamed, in my wildest nightmares, that there would ever be a situation where I personally would choose such an act. Of course, we would each like to think that our reasons for a termination are the exception to the rule. But the bottom line is that you people spend your lives, reputations, careers and energy fighting for, maintaining, and providing an option that I needed, while I spent my energy lambasting you. Yet you still allowed me to make use of your services even though I had been one of your enemies. You treated us as kindly and warmly as you did all of your patients and never once pointed an 'I told you so' finger in our direction. I got the impression that you cared equally about each woman in the facility and what each woman was going through, regardless of her reasons for choosing the procedure. I have never met a group of purely non-judgmental people like yourselves."

:wow:

[nolies32fouettes]

44. Non-judgemental...

Isn't that what we're suppose to be about? Instead of scarying already frightened people, shouldn't we be supporting them? Even if that choice is something we disagree with; adoption, abortion, keeping the baby, having pre-marital sex, having marital sex and having an oopsy...

Nonjudgemental...what an idea!

[file83]

42. "Abortionists are DARKSIDED!! The Clinics are TAINTED!!!"

I'm sorry, but every time I think of "Anti-Abortion" activists I think of this....

....CRAZY WOMAN.

[nolies32fouettes]

43. scary lady!!!

[upi402]

46. k/r

phony bastards (bastardesses?) -the rich will always have access to abortion.

[nolies32fouettes]

49. thanks for the k/r...hope this stays kicked for the California crowd

[eridani]

50. From "A Woman's Book of Choices"

This is pretty common. A few years ago, I didn't have a scanner, but was impressed enough by the following to type it out

The following is excerpted from A Woman's Book of Choices: Abortion, Menstrual Extraction, RU-486 by Rebecca Chalker and Carol Downer. Available for $13.95 from FOUR WALLS EIGHT WINDOWS, P.O. Box 548, Village Station, New York NY10014.



"Women who think that abortion is wrong, but decide to get one anyway, represent about 15% of our patients," says Sylvia Stengle, founder and director of the Allentown Women's Center in Allentown, Pennsylvania. "Picketers who get abortions are are a small subset of this population."

Sometimes anti-abortion activists attempt to hide their activities, but others seem compelled to acknowledge them. Bernadette, a counselor at an abortion clinic in Texas reports one such incident. "One day when I was on the front desk, a woman walked in to the clinic to make an appointment. From her behavior, I guessed that she had just come from the anti-abortion 'counseling center' across the street where they try to convince, cajole or terrorize women into continuing their pregnancies. The woman appeared numb, almost in a state of shock, and in a voice so low that it was almost a whisper, she said that she wanted an abortion. I didn't pressure her for information, but she seemed driven to confess that she had marched with the 'pro-life' advocates at city Hall on the recent anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision on January 22. She said she was separated from her husband, and that the father was another man, who now had another girlfriend, who was also pregnant. 'There's just no way I can have this baby,' she told me. Then gesturing to the other women in the waiting room, she said, 'I guess you shouldn't say anything until you are in these women's shoes.' Her situation was such a mess. I was torn between sympathy for her, and wagging my finger at her and saying, 'Aren't you glad that abortion is still legal?'"

Debi Jackson, the administrator of Cincinnati Woman's Services, an abortion clinic in Cincinnati, Ohio, recall two incidents at the clinic in which fathers who were active picketers of the local Planned Parenthood clinic brought their daughters in for abortions. "Before I came to Cincinnati Woman's Services, I was head clinic escort at Planned Parenthood for two and one-half years. After all that time, I had the faces of the regular picketers memorized. Within the first few months on the job, I was shocked when one, and then a second male picketer brought their teenage daughters in for abortions. Neither apparently realized I had changed jobs, but they were both clearly shocked to see me. In my experience, these are people who can't face having the neighbors or people at church find out that their daughters are sexually active. They also seem to believe that their daughters are different from the other women in the waiting room, and the daughters seem to think so too. However, in the counseling session, we make it clear that their behavior, and their predicament, is no different than that of the clinic's other clients. This seems to come as a shock to some of them."

Doctors who do abortions also report encountering anti-abortion activists. Dr. Bruce Steir, who has done abortions in Northern California for many years, describes an abortion he did for a committed anti-abortion activist. "At a Super Bowl party in San Francisco, I observed my daughter-in-law's best friend admonishing the women who were pro-choice for supporting 'baby killers' (I guess I was one of those she had in mind). she stated that she was proud to be a 'pro-life' activist and Operation Rescue supporter. Three months later I entered the operating room of a San Francisco abortion clinic and found this same woman sitting on the exam table. I decided not to remind her of any of her passionately stated convictions. She, however, blew her cool by timidly confessing that she was still anti-abortion, saying, 'I'm a single working girl and can't afford maternity clothes, let alone obstetric care!' There were many words I would have liked to have said to her at that moment, but instead I skillfully did her abortion and left it at that."

Sylvia Stengle, whose Pennslyvania clinic has been picketed almost weekly since 1978, sees anti-abortion activists who seek abortions as suffering from something far worse than a double standard. "Terminating a pregnanacy throws these women into a deep emotional conflict. They have to rationalize their actions, but can't because they are living by a dysfunctional value system that doesn't allow for realistic solutions. They are left with guilt and damaged self-esteem that comes back to haunt them.

"Women who are against abortion often say that they regret their decision to have one, and many claim that they were pressured into it by husbands, boyfriends, or parents, or claim that counselors did not provide them with enough information," Stengle continues. She feels these "regrets" really represent a failure to take individual responsibility for the decision to terminate a pregnancy. At the Allentown clinic, Stengle has developed a special consent form to deal with these women. The form, which has been adapted by other clinics, requires women who believe abortion is wrong to acknowledge that they have been informed of alternatives to abortion, and that they are personally taking responsibilty for ending their pregnancies. In addition, women who refuse to concede that abortion must be available to other women must relinquish their right to confidentiality. "These women can still get their abortions, but if we see them back on the picket lines, we reserve the right to release their names to the media," says Stengle. "This makes them think twice about their decision."

Some clinic do special counseling with women who are vocally against abortion, but reserve the right to refuse to do the procedure in some instances. "After counseling, if a woman still insist that abortion should not be available to other women, and calls us murderers, and so forth, they just have to get their abortions elsewhere," says Lynn Thorgersen, clinic administrator of the Atlanta Feminist Women's Health Center. The Atlanta clinic has been picketed regularly since 1985, and was severely damaged by anti-abortion protesters in 1989. "Our counselors feel we have to draw the line somewhere."

Female anti-abortion activists who get abortions are the dirty little secret of the anti-abortion movement. Some actually believe they are committing "murder," yet the minute their periods are late, they experience what it means to be unable to control their reproductive lives. So they grit their teeth, have abortions to avoid having their lives dramatically altered, and often return to the picket lines to try to prevent other women from exercising the same freedom.

[NMMNG]

51. "My abortion is because of an honest mistake"

"All the rest of you are whores!".


I read an LTTE in The Nation last night. It was a response to an article on the abortion debate, and the writer claimed {paraphrasing} that she didn't understand the furor over needing access to abortion because she knew how to responsibly use birth control, so why couldn't other women just do the same?

I wonder if she'll be so smug when her birth control fails?

[Mad_Dem_X]

53. Again, they fight against something until

it affects them directly. Then it's a different story. No empathy, no compassion for other people. "My situation is DIFFERENT!" People like that make me want to scream!

[NewWaveChick1981]

54. Speaking as a woman who has had an abortion...

I would fight to the death to protect this choice. I have always used contraception, but there was one time that the method failed in 1999. My husband was very supportive, and I have never regretted the choice. The key word here is CHOICE. I am childless by choice and am grateful for the women who came before me to protect our rights to our own bodies.

The facility was clean, the staff and doctors were nonjudgmental (as are the vast majority of providers), and the women in the clinic were all scared. Fortunately, no one had such a split personality as to say something against abortion as we were all there for the same reason. Some of us were married, most were not, and only a few had a husband/boyfriend/friend there to help them through it. I think I would have had a heated discussion with anyone who would have dared to act "holier than thou" or call us or the staff members murderers. NONE of us wanted to be there, but thank goodness we had a legal, safe, sterile, supportive place to go.

Anti-choice people are small-minded bigots, and in many cases, hypocrites as well.

[Stockholm]

55. K&R!

n/t

[jilln]

56. Just like the "anti-Bush" Republicans who still vote for him

maybe only because that is what is expected of them? How sad to have so little backbone.

[tanyev]

57. They are in the grip of a powerful disconnect/delusion.

I imagine a psychologist could have a field day analyzing them.

[mainer]

58. I know it's evil -- but i think these women need to be "outed."

Yeah, yeah, it's a violation of their medical privacy. But if clinic insiders know the names of anti-choice activists who've had abortions, then SOMEONE should put their names on a "hypocrites" list.

[mnhtnbb]

59. Truth in the anecdotes

I lived in St. Joseph, MO for six years and developed a reputation as one of the few openly pro-choice people in the town. The newspaper used to call me for quotes whenever the anti-choicers would hold their rallies (and you had to go to Kansas City for an abortion).

Our family physician told me one time that he had numerous stories of these anti-choice folks showing up in his office when their teenage daughters got pregnant asking him for referrals for abortions! Seems their morality got checked at the office door when an unplanned pregnancy became an issue for one of their own family. Such hypocrites.

[SunDrop23]

60. I'm going to use this again...

"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)

[slybacon9]

61. Geez, i had this neighbor once....

Ex con, fundementalist christian freakazoid. Huge and burly with a barbie doll wife. He would wake up every morning at the crack of dawn and drag his six year old out to the abortion clinic to hold those nasty signs of bloody fetuses all day.

It gets better...

his made his wife get three abortions!


the guy scared the shit out of me.

[Up2Late]

62. Amazing, Thanks.

This, it seems to me, proof that RW brainwashing works.

[Blue_Tires]

63. ttt n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

64. Typical right wing Christians

Changing the laws of Christianity just to suit their needs. :rant: :sarcasm: :rant:

[IsIt1984Yet]

68. Thank you for sharing this link.

Interesting and infuriating read.

[Spangle]

69. You ALL have it wrong!

This is NORMAL Christian behavior in action.

What goes on in the protest line is what is done in public. It's to be SEEN doing God's work. It's to be HEARD doing God's work. THAT is all that matters.

What they personaly decide to do, that is a different story.

Afterwards, they can confess their sins and beforgiven. Outsiders are not allowed that option. BUt Christians within the group can be forgiven many times, even for the same sin.

This is no different then going out drinking saturday night, picking up streetwalkers and having a good old time. The getting up Sunday to lead the church in song, preach, teach sunday school, etc.

These people don't take responsiblity for their own actions. It's always someone elses fault. The Devil is just another excuse. Same as being "lead to sin." They want the LAWS to prevent their OWN people from having abortions. So their OWN people will follow their OWN church law.

When it comes to abortion, part of the paperwork should include that if she is seen protesting ANYWERE, then the CLinic has the right to release her name, date, time, and procedure. It's a simple matter of including it in the forms they fill out at the clinic.

[cally]

70. Wow...I've never seen this

I'm glad I saw this before it disappeared into the DU ether.