WTF???? North Carolina holds "Confederate Flag Day".

[Initech]

North Carolina marks Confederate Flag Day with a salute to the flag and the heritage many defenders of the flag say it represents.

Not everyone wants the heritage to be remembered as something to be proud of, though.

The Charlotte News & Observer reports hundreds crowded the state House chamber Saturday, sang "Dixie" and saluted the flag -- along with a Civil War-era state flag and the current U.S. flag.

The event -- which the newspaper described as all-white -- was sponsored by the N.C. Division of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

http://washtimes.com/upi/20060305-040711-8455r.htm

What the fuck? Is this a new tradition or have they always had this?

[Gato Moteado]

1. burn the confederate flag!

rub two freepers together to start a fire and toss in the stars and bars.

[reality based]

2. Treason Day n/t

[GrumpyGreg]

3. Arkansas too !

[Rufus T. Firefly]

4. I have an idea...

when we take power back, how about we deny Federal funds to states that either fly a Confederate flag on state property, or have a Confederate flag-inspired state flag?

Since the gov't can require colleges to allow military recruiters on campus if they accept Federal funds, then we can use that precedent for that, couldn't we?

...

And as a side note, the flag they always fly is not the "Stars and Bars." And it's not the "Battle Flag." It's the naval ensign - the battle flag was square, and the stars and bars looked more like the U.S. flag. So they're flying a naval flag on land.

Besides all that, the "battle flag" was actually the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (Gen. Lee).

But then history isn't their strong suit - they say it wasn't about slavery, too.

Links to the flags are below, since I didn't want to taint DU with the images.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-csa1.html
Stars and Bars

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-csan.html
Second Naval Jack

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-anv.html
Army of Northern Virginia

[Initech]

7. That's a great idea!

[Raine]

5. Disgusting

makes me wanna :puke:

[wanpete]

6. just goes to show that many things still have not changed in the south...

[Initech]

8. Are there any North Carolina DUers who could shed some light on this?

[Yupster]

21. Texan here

but I can add that North Carolina lost more men than any state during the Civil War. Even more than New York.

[Bandit]

31. Then they should be the first to stand up and burn the rag

It is a disgrace that Americans would kill so they could keep people slaves. They should be embarrassed to ever look at that horror.

[unc70]

22. I might be able to shed a little

I posted at length in an earlier discussion of this. Since that posting, I googled images and found a picture that seems to confirm it was the Stars and Bars, not the battle flag or the naval flag. The link in this discussion shows the S&B correctly, but probably 80% of web sites show the battle flag even when they are discussing the Stars and Bars.

To clarify something, no one in my family since my grandmothers have been in the UDC or any such. I am more-aware of this subject right now because I have been going through trunks of family documents, both in my mother's estate and in the Duke and UNC archives. Reading a long personal letter from the officer notifying the widow of the death of her husband makes a powerful anti-war statement, particularly when it is your own family.




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=587503&mesg_id=591070

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Everyone! Go see Confederate States of America!!!

That movie will make you think twice about that dixie flag.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

11. Never heard of it...but now I HAVE to see it.

"Through the eyes of a british 'documentary,' this film takes a satirically humorous, and sometimes frightening, look at the history of an America where the South won the Civil War."

Trailer: http://www.imdb.com/rg/title-tease/trailers/title/tt0389828/trailers

With credits like "Bible Infomercial Slave" and "Duke Cooter," I'm SO into it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. It is fabulous

The 'commercials' are the best part. LOL

[Initech]

17. It's really high on my list of movies to see.

[TroubleMan]

10. A long time ago, my Mom told me that the Confederate Flag stands for ....

"Proud to be and idiot."


They might as well have a "Let's lynch n-words day."

I hope I don't have to spell out what the n-word is.

[Rocknrule]

12. Next up: "Swastika Day," and "Suicide Bomber Rememberance Day"

[Rufus T. Firefly]

13. Hey, the swastika is a good-luck symbol.

And it's German heritage. So I'm proud to fly that flag.

Same argument, right?

Even if the CSA flag was not about racism, the fact that it HAS been used in favor of racist policies during the Civil Rights Struggle and by the KKK, then now it's tainted. Just like the swastika.

[Jamastiene]

24. The good luck version, technically, is backward, or should I say

more technically, the good luck swastika came first, so that means the German heritage/nazi version is backasswards? Yeah, that's it.

In any case, your logic holds true. Flying that damn confederate flag is akin to flying a swastika and/or spitting on our Union flag. I mean we are the United States of America now and have been for quite some time now. It looks like the confederate flag lovers would get that by now and either join the damn country, or try to secede again. In any case, they'll never "succeed", so fuck it, we are stuck with that bunch of proud idiots.

[Dhampir Kampf]

15. You do know that the Confederates were Democrats right?

Again, a flag means different things to different people.

And, this IS a freedom..

Did my ancestors fight to keep black slaves, slaves?

No, they saw Lincoln as invading their territory. How would you feel if Bush all of a sudden didn't like the way your state was running, and raised an army to stop you?

The North were the aggressors, the south was fighting for their freedom from the Republicans.

But this is getting into another topic.

[Jamastiene]

25. The parties have totally switched sides since then, thankfully.

All I have to say about your argument at this point is that it is lost on this southern girl. I'm proud to be an American, that is, the America that aspires to do a better job at granting civil rights to its citizens. We definitely disagree on how we see this issue.

[Bridget Burke]

26. Things have changed since then.

The Democratic Party lost much of the South with Civil Rights legislation, as LBJ predicted. The Republicans stepped in as the party of racism. Lincoln's been dead a long time.

The South seceded because the upper class feared for their right to keep slaves. But most Southerners did NOT own slaves--so the "States' Rights" excuse was cooked up. And most now waxing nostalgic for The Lost Cause are descended from what the slavemasters called White Trash.

As a Texan, I've heard all this crap before. At least, slavery was illegal in Texas until Independence; the Mexicans freed their slaves when they declared Independence from Spain. But some of the Anglo illegal immigrants needed slaves to get rich--so they became "Freedom Fighters." (That's not the only reason for the break from Mexico.) Then Texas became a slave state, but only until Juneteenth. The evil institution did not pollute our state as long as it did Virginia.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

28. Nope, it WAS about slavery.

The southern states seceded because they were afraid Lincoln would "take away their slaves." Never mind the fact that he wouldn't have been able to do that if they hadn't left Congressz.

Look up any of the articles of secession - I live in Texas, and the Texas articles of secession mention slavery as a factor numerous times. I agree that this was not the only issue, but it was a major one. And why the troops themselves fought is irrelevant - just like in Iraq. The WAR is the issue, not individual feelings one way or the other.

And Lincoln didn't invade their territory until they 1) left the Union and formed their own country, and 2) attacked Fort Sumter, which was a federal fort off the coast of S.C. that would not surrender. The South fired the first shots of the war.

And I agree that he CSA was fighting for freedom - the freedom to keep people in chains.

[Dhampir Kampf]

16. And no, it's not new. nt

[Bigmack]

18. Name one other civil war in the world..

... that you know of where the loser gets to fly their flag? Usually, civil wars are pretty nasty, and folks hold grudges long afterward. How come the losers in our war still celebrate their flag and cause? About 600,000 americans died in that little dust-up, so I think lots of people might still be a little touchy about the losers showing so much pride in their role in the war.

I know about the Compromise of 1877, but howcumzit the South gets to revel in their rebellion.

It's all over the fucking country, too. I live part-time in Washington state, and one of the state legislators damn near got lynched when he suggested that it was inappropriate for a local highway remained named after Jefferson Davis.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

30. The flag represents treason.

They took up arms against the legitimate government after Lincoln was elected - an election in which the southern states participated.

Funny when you think of how many "Patriots" who love Bush fly that flag.

I will admit, though that the flag, purely from a design standpoint, looks pretty damn cool. I LOVED it when I was a kid...the Dukes of Hazzard premiered when I was 5. However, while I may occasionally watch a few minutes of the show if I happen upon it, that flag will not enter my home.

It's also good that people fly it - you know which neighborhoods, towns, etc. to avoid.

[depakid]

19. I don't know why that surprises anyone

North Carolina is as chock full of fundies and bigots as any other Southern state. Every time I go the the supposedly "progressive" research triangle to visit members of my family, I hear things that would make your jaw drop.

[Dem2theMax]

20. I think it's time we un-invite some states from being part of the US of A.

North Carolina. You are first on the list. :mad:

[Jamastiene]

23. Yep. That's NC for ya.

I live here. It's a red state. Wtf else did you expect from this hellhole on Earth? Yeah, that's how most of these assholes are around here. And black people seem to agree with them just enough so that those of us who are as outraged as you are can't argue our point. They trot out some black person with a confederate flag who is just as batshit crazy and belligerent as they are. It's a no win situation. Yep, there are no winners in NC. Nothing to see here, moving right along.

[lectrobyte]

27. What do you expect from the land of Jesse Helms and Lizzie Dole?

I live in NC, and I have to say, I encounter more just totally off the wall wingnuts than anywhere else. Must be the combination of living in a place with a pretty decent economy and a huge excess of self righteousness. When I get to know them better, I've got to ask the black family down the street what they think of my neighbor, who has a big confederate flag sticker on his SUV, and works in the yard wearing a confederate flag wifebeater.

[Beelzebud]

29. Hey Southerners: America - Love it or Leave it!