They even rape little 10 year olds...The pain lives on...

[nolies32fouettes]

Because of the discussion in this thread:

http://www.progressiveu.org/203316-south-dakota-abortion-ban-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest

I've written this rebuttal. Please read and take to heart. It was really heart wrenching for me to write it.

http://www.progressiveu.org/160000-sexual-violence-against-women-in-society

[ray of light]

1. excellent rebuttal. And I'm sorry about all their sorrow. k and r!!!

[Warpy]

2. Excellent points. A child born of rape will be born to a very

emotionally damaged mother. There is no good outcome beyond making some male fetus fetishist feel smug that he's forced another woman to give birth against her will. There will be no social services for the mother or the baby. We know these men. We know how they think. Once a woman has been sufficiently punished by forced childbirth, they're done with the whole situation and on to forcing another and another and another, all the while congratulating themselves on being manly and godly at the same time.

It's disgusting to force any woman to risk her life on a pregnancy she does not want. It's especially disgusting to force a physically and emotionally damaged woman to do so.

[ray of light]

3. I agree!

I think it gives them a lot more power! If I were a women (and a guy) I'd get the heck out of S.D. NOW!

[nolies32fouettes]

8. Well, i'd want to get the kids out of there pronto!

[nolies32fouettes]

7. There are some long term effects

and I agree! It's disgusting to force any women to risk her life on a pregnancy she does not want.

[mom cat]

4. This is an excellent post! ... K&R ... and thanks for going through the

agony in the hope that others might be spared. :applause:

[ray of light]

5. I agree!

The pain and compassion really show through.

[nolies32fouettes]

6. It's really hard.

I know these people personally.

[nolies32fouettes]

9. thank you, mom cat. Can you imagine the trauma of these people

who by the way are all less than age 21 right now.

[mom cat]

11. Unfortunately, I know it from my own experience and that of others for

whom I have been a therapist for the last 30 years. The scars scab over, but they never really heal.
I learned to pick up the pieces and worked to make a life anyway, but I have seen those who could not hold on and chose to end a life that was too full of painful memories.It is soul murder. To inflict upon a young rape victim the burden of carrying a child full term is the depth of depravity.

[nolies32fouettes]

12. too many women know this pain. I believe many more than the

statistics show!

I have to hit the sack now, but if any west coast people want to keep this kicked, I'd appreciate it. The word has to get out that the vulnerable isn't the embrioyos, it's our own little girls and boys! (but especially girls)

[nolies32fouettes]

10. thank you for the k's and r's. they mean a lot to me. I worked very

hard on this post.

[TygrBright]

13. When I was young, abortion was illegal...

...and a member of my best friend's family killed herself in a Catholic "home" for "wayward" girls while she was pregnant.

She'd been date-raped by a "nice" boy, a clean-cut respectable jock-type, college-bound, etc. She told my friend that she "knew" the nuns were right, that she was morally obligated to carry the rapist's child to term and then give it up for adoption, but she felt like "something awful was growing inside her" and taking over her body and she wasn't "real" anymore, she was "like those pods in the movie" (she probably meant Night of the Living Dead) and someday she'd "split open" and the "something awful would come out" and she'd shrivel up like a corn husk.

She hanged herself a few days later.

The priest refused to bury her in the Church cemetary because she was a suicide. My friend left the Church.

sadly,
Bright

[readmoreoften]

15. Sadly. Indeed.

Funny when the past history reads like some science-fiction dystopian past.
Scary when it becomes your possible future.

[ray of light]

30. looks like we're going back to the "good ole' times" :(

[fujiyama]

14. But but

They never apologized for 9/11 (so Lieberman says).

[annabanana]

16. We had just begun to free ourselves from

this dystopian existance. The horrors described aren't the distant past, they are JUST past. It's like drowning for years, getting one blessed lungful of clean air only to be plunged back into the filthy water.

1) outlaw abortion
2) outlaw contraception
3) no more vote for YOU...

[nolies32fouettes]

17. yeh.

That sums it up!

Unbelievable how they're outlawing contraception and people are lettin them dictate something that is prvate and should be a no brainer!

[Solly Mack]

18. Thank you

as a survivor of child rape - Thank you.

[ray of light]

19. I'm so sorry. I hope you were able to get the help you need and are

on the road to recovery.

[Solly Mack]

20. I appreciate that. Thank you

[ray of light]

21. I've never met you before

but I'll be thinking of you and hoping for the best. I know it's difficult, but remain tough and strong and find people you can trust. Not everyone is evil.

[Career Prole]

22. You did well.

(and you were a heck of a lot nicer about it than I could ever be!)

[nolies32fouettes]

26. I tried. And I tried to protect the victims privacy. But I think

for some people they will never 'get it' unless they start to listen to the stories and learn from it.

[knitter4democracy]

23. As a family member of a rape victim, thank you.

Her parents are pro-lifers, and they made good and sure that she got EC in the hospital. It was with a date-rape drug, so there are parts she doesn't remember, but it's a miracle she's alive. Too bad she refused therapy and is in a shame spiral now.

There's a reason such solutions exist--they're needed. When the Turkish soldiers raped Greek women in their last war with Greece, saying that they'd be having Turkish babies, the Church allowed those women to get abortions. Why? It was rape, and it wasn't their choice or their fault. It was the right decision in a horrible time, and many women are in the same horrible time only privately so.

[nolies32fouettes]

24. can you please post that to one of my 'pet trolls'

peppermintfrost. You can find her in any of these threads:

http://www.progressiveu.org/203316-south-dakota-abortion-ban-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest

http://www.progressiveu.org/164722-the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion

[knitter4democracy]

34. I read through them. I'm not sure what to say.

She sounds like people I went to college with who honestly cannot fathom the world any differently than how they know it. Many have been through sheer hell themselves but can't extend that sympathy they live on to others in different situations. I never knew what to say to those people then, and I can't figure out what to say to her now.

She's so focused on the baby that she forgets the mother. To her, any innocent cannot "pay" for the sins of others, yet she doesn't seem to understand the situation special and unique to pregnancy. We abort babies all the time, several per woman per lifetime. We just don't call it that. We call it miscarrying and say that God's in charge. Does that mean that God isn't in charge of guiding a woman to the difficult choice when the natural ways didn't work? Does that mean that God can't guide the hands of the doctor and the nurse helping? She's so caught up in calling it murder that she forgets that we kill people in self-defense and in defense of others all the time, even accidentally, and don't lock those people up.

I feel for her, I really do. I just wish I knew what to say.

[knitter4democracy]

35. Okay, I gave it a shot.

I tried a response on that first thread you linked. We'll see if she says or does anything now.

[ray of light]

36. thank you for trying.

I think you're right in your belief that nothing will get past the wall she's built up. I can't get onto the site for some reason. As soon as I can, I'll look for your comment. The thing is, we've all tried compassion, anger, ignoring her, etc...but her words and lack of commpassion really wounds so many.

[bobbieinok]

31. didn't Muslim drs from ME go to Bosnia to help with abortions of

Muslim women raped by Serbs?????

I don't know the Muslim stand on abortion; I have read women who have a child outside of marriage are shunned.

And isn't there some Hebrew Talmudic ruling about what is permitted women who have been raped?? And this was used for women and families in the Nazi period?????

[ray of light]

32. I'm not sure.

[knitter4democracy]

33. I'm not sure, either.

It would make sense, though. Rape is a war crime, and no victim of such a horrible thing should be forced to carry the baby to term. No one should be forced to carry a baby she doesn't want. The very thought is disgusting to me.

As I said all through college, abortion's as old as Eve's daughters. It's time we get used to that idea.

[RazzleDazzle]

25. Absolutely beautiful and this is so important:

from your link:


Sexual violence is more widespread than we want to believe. We want to believe its not us, or people we know. I think we’d all be surprised to know the reality of sexual abuse in America today. But I think we need to be aware of it. With women being sexually mature sooner, and terrible abuse of children, it might be YOUR 12 year old sister or niece who finds herself in the abortion bind next.

Do you want to have to drive all over to find Plan B for her because the pharmacist won’t give it to you, and doesn’t have to under state law? If she barely knows what sex is, and doesn’t know the importance of getting EC’s fast, do you want to stand with her as she struggles to tell a judge what happened to her so that MAYBE he’ll consent to let her have an abortion? Do you want to endure the peculiar looks from neighbors as her belly grows with her rapists child and she continues to have nightmares about “it”? Do you want to hold her as she cries and wonders if the child will have his daddy’s cold eyes? Do you want her to be socially outcast because a single mother is still considered a “slut” by society? Do you want to squeeze this girls hand while she’s in labor because the father isn’t there and her parents have disowned her or become estranged? Do you want to comfort this girl when she falls into a bad pattern of men who keep hurting her, because she doesn’t think she “deserves any better”? Do you want to pay for the child’s college education because Mommy doesn’t have the education to get a well paying job? Do you think we really have a home that can truly love this child? Would you offer your OWN home?
We should not be heaping ANY more hardship on these survivors. Laws such as the ones that South Dakota and Missouri are passing put these women through considerably more torment than they have already endured. They have already been raped by man, should they be raped by the system as well? Our women’s lives are worth SO much, when will we start treating them like such?

----

Everyone who supports this draconian South Dakota law needs to be forced to read this, and really absorb it.

And you didn't even get into the issues of how many of these women who were raped/molested as children go on to live lives of drug and/or alcohol addiction, work in the sex trade to help cement her degradation and self-hatred, and basically never live up to their full potential because of the harm done against them when they were innocent children.

[ray of light]

28. I agree. I was hoping Skinner would front page this.

I think it's completely publication worthy.

[noamnety]

27. When my sister and I were young

we used to swim in the pond behind our house. It was one of those ponds that had frogs and harmless snakes in it; we'd go inner tubing even when there was still ice on it - we were crazy about it. One day, my sister stood too long kneedeep in the water, without moving, and when she got out, a leech had attached itself to her foot. It was the first time that had happened; we were home alone at the time.

I was two years younger than her. I remember pointing it out to her, and her shrieking. She couldn't speak, she was so repulsed and panic-stricken. We ran up to the house, or rather I did. She ran a weird limping gait that involved going as quickly as she could while holding her foot as far away from herself as she could. It was somewhat like watching a three-legged race, except it was just her.

She sat on the chair in the back room, crying uncontrollably, holding her foot, still, as far away from her as she could, like somehow the leech would be further from her that way, even though it was obviously still attached to her. I ran and got salt, and dumped about half the canister on her foot, and watched while the leech shriveled up, then used tweezers to wrench the thing off. I don't know that that's the proper way to remove one, by pulling it off like that with brute force. It felt like I was doing it wrong, like I was leaving part of the teeth, or whatever leeches use to hook into you, inside her, but it didn't matter. Leaving her like that until my parents came home wasn't an option, not with her screaming that almost silent scream of pure fear where barely a whisper comes out, and you can't form any words.



A decade later, when she was a teenager, she was abducted at knife point by a stranger. She was held for 5 hours, and raped. She was lucky, she wasn't killed; she didn't get pregnant. I don't know, when you're pregnant from a rape, how you hold that thing that so completely repulses you - that thing that sends you into an animal panic - far enough away from your body, while you wait to have it removed.

[ray of light]

29. iwfern, she still feels it there. her brain remembers it.

at weird times some sort of smell or temperature will bring back the memory. Rape is lifelong damage. It's not just 'sex'.