Rape/incest exceptions in abortion argument...

[CoffeeCat]

Many anti-choice advocates will attempt to look reasonable by suggesting that abortion should only be
allowed in rape or incest cases.

So, let's say I'm raped, and like most rape victims (70 percent), I don't report the rape. A few weeks later, I discover that I'm pregnant due to the rape. I go to my gynecologist and I tell him my circumstances. Do I have to prove that I was raped? What if I have no proof?

Let's say the doctor is willing to perform the abortion. He believes my story. Will he risk prosecution if he provides an abortion in a rape case--if there is no proof of rape? Will this force doctors to become investigators--out on the streets collecting evidence and interviewing suspects--in order to justify doing the abortion?

Take the case of incest. Incest victims are minors. Ninety percent of incest victims never tell that they were molested. Let's say that an incest victims becomes pregnant and divulges that her father or stepfather molested her and that he might be the person who impregnated her. Pedophiles aren't known for their honesty. In fact, I've worked with pedophiles, and usually it takes years of intense therapy to break through their denial---even when multiple witnesses come forward. The pedophile would fight these allegations tooth and nail. He'd probably fight giving up a DNA sample. What is the minor supposed to do in these instances? What happens during the months that the child molester is calling the victim a liar and being uncooperative? If the victim is living with her perpetrator--what does all of this do to her?

When a Fundie, anti-choice activist attempts to appear reasonable by saying that they are for exemptions in cases of incest and rape exceptions--please tell them that this is unreasonable.

The incest/rape cases only further complicate the issue, and do further damage to women (minor children and rape victims) who are all ready traumatized.

[Horse with no Name]

1. Except that in the S. Dakota legislation

They aren't exempted.
I have no reason to believe that any of these other states ready to jump on the band wagon to ban abortion will be any different.:cry:

[emdee]

2. Exactly - and

are we going to have policemen and investigators and judges signing approvals on each and every one performed? Well, privacy is thrown right out the window along with the rest of our freedoms, I guess. How can they ever justify the methods it would take to enforce their ifs, thens, and buts?

I think that when push comes to shove many (most?) of those with firm stands would bend a bit if/when it involved their own family.

emdee

[Erika]

3. You brought up a valid point about rape

Guess what happens if the rapist doesn't come to trial for a year? The woman is forced to deliver the child and deal with the rapist and his child for the rest of her life. Those states that want an exception for rape are trying to pull the wool over women's eyes.

[azurnoir]

4. The unfortunate fact is that most Fundie's

won't do that (make excemtions for rape and incest) because those exemptions were part of the decision to legalize abortion in the first place. Justice Blackmon stated that abortion was either murder or not and if it was murder it was murder no matter what the circumstances of the conception, he also felt that only God could say exactly when an embryo became a humanbeing and he did not feel qualified to speak for God. I suspect some of our present justices aren't quite so humble.

[northzax]

5. rape and incest shouldn't be excepted

if abortion is murder, which I don't think is the case, then abortion in the case of rape and incest is still murder. this is the flaw in the anti-choice arguement.

[TahitiNut]

7. Exactly.

The "innocent life" argument falls apart.

[northzax]

10. indeed

if it is murder, and rape and incest are excepted, then I should be allowed to kill my downstairs neighbor, who, at 27, is the child of a rape. after all, that's ok, right?

[dysfunctional press]

11. I agree 1000%

I'M PRO CHOICE.(just wanted that out there)

BUT- if they are going to ban abortion on the basis that the fetus is a human life, then the circumstances under which that life started are IRRELEVANT.

[northzax]

17. This is the problem with the Pro-choice movement

we make this arguement, we complain that there have to be exceptions for rape and incest. It's also the problem with the anti-choice movement, that makes exceptions for rape and incest to acheive their goals. Both are bullshit. Either abortion is acceptable (my view) or it isn't. There should be NO exceptions to that.

[azurnoir]

12. Luckly there is a flaw

in SD's law that being the penalty for a Doctor preforming an abortion is far less severe than the penalty for murder so is abortion a lesser murder?(I don't think it's murder either), but if the penalty is increased they might find less support.

[northzax]

13. the law should simply state that abortion is first degree murder

since it is obviously premeditated by both the woman involved and the doctor. same penalties should apply as if I pulled out a gun and shot someone.

[azurnoir]

19. There you have it

Could this be called "hoisting them with their own petard?"

[northzax]

21. I am still waiting

to hear a good reason, from an anti-choicer, to except rape and incest, besides tradition. maybe someone can let me in on the secret?

[azurnoir]

23. Ireally think the reason

is in my first post on this thread #4. But that does not justify forcing a girl or women to bear(?) a baby concieved of rape or incest.
BTW I know a women who was forced to have not one but two babies fathered by her older brother- she 11 and 13 respectivly, her family lived way up north (MN) in the boonies and kept her home. They raised the 2 children as their own and then told them the truth when they were in their early 20's the older one commited suicide. The women herself was messed up for life as you can well imagine, but yet this family could not admit their son (who over 18 when he had sex with her) had done anything wrong, no it her fault obviusly she was a slut.

[DanCa]

6. Were forgetting that the Gop loves to torture human beings.

And didn't that cloven hoof she pig Karen Hughes say that pro choice is a "terrorist" poisition? Why, why did people vote third party instead of voting for Senator Kerry. I'll never know.

[azurnoir]

15. So that would explain

all the comment's I read during the '04 election "my son just died in Iraq, but I'm going to vote for * because he's antiabortion"

[LincolnMcGrath]

8. Andrea Zinga says you 72 hours to report a rape!

3 GOPers on Abortion

From the article linked;

Gilliland, as well as Zinga, would make exceptions for abortions if a woman’s life was in danger or if she was the victim of rape or incest. In the latter cases, Zinga says it would have to be reported within 72 hours.

Mowen says he would work against exceptions being made for the victims of rape and incest but would be reasonable.

[cynatnite]

9. Physicians are required by law to call the police...

in cases of sexual assault on a minor which includes incest, IMO.

You made a good point concerning rapes. Many victims are afraid for good reason in not coming forward.

The option for abortion should definitely be open to ALL women without exception.

These people make me wanna :puke: All they care about is gawd's will...not the people who suffer under such oppression.

[sproutster]

14. I'm speaking from personal knowledge here

I was raped and pregnent at 12 y/o.

I lied my head off, and refused to name the father.

I didn't want anyone to know because it was my fault - The rapists called me a slut, etc...

I went to school around the people who did it and was "slut" for a long time.

It would have been outragous if I had to prove it to get an abortion. Worse - would they have believed me? A foster kid who's dad died?

I have nothing but pity and sympathy for any young victim in SD.

[readmoreoften]

18. This is the second story like this I've heard on DU alone today.

People act like pregnancy resulting from rape is some bizarre circumstance that has only happened once or twice in the past decade. It's not that rare. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm glad you were able to get an abortion. I hope I'll never need one (I would only ever need one due to rape, since I'm a lesbian.)

[northzax]

22. wow- that's awful

and, once again, I don't believe what I am about to write. However, if, as people seem to say, Abortion is the murder of an innocent life, how can that be reconciled with excepting rape and incest? an embryo is either alive or it isn't, right? if it is alive, then I can kill an adult, who is the child of rape or incest, without repurcussions.

it's a stupid case, and that is, in fact, my point. As far as I am concerned, you are alive when you take a breath outside the body of another human being.

[CoffeeCat]

26. Hi Sproutster...

...thanks for sharing your story.

I was molested as a child too--and I absolutely lacked the capacity to tell.

As we both well know--one of the hallmarks of a pedophile is their ability to manipulate their victims. They are skilled at convincing the victim that the molestation was their own fault. They groom their victims into situations that confuse the issue.

Child molestation isn't just about sex. The offender gets a high from terrorizing their victims and keeping them silent. These animals often go to great lengths to silence their victims.

In my case, one of my perpetrators told me that if I spoke out--my entire family would die and that I would go to jail. That's pretty typical of threats from a pedophile.

How is a 7, 9 or twelve year old supposed to work their way out of a trauma like this?

This is the reason that 90 percent never tell.

Again, Sproutster, I applaud you for sharing your story with us. Silence only helps the perp and you did absolutely nothing wrong. You were an innocent angel. I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I hope you are healing and moving forward today. You deserve it!

[Solly Mack]

27. Thank you for sharing your story!

children do feel as if it's their fault - I know I did.

(((sproutster))))

[elehhhhna]

29. Honey I'm so sorry...

what a horrible situation. Thank Jah you sound pretty together. Couldn't have been easy.

[readmoreoften]

16. From rape comes God's gift! Don't you guys get it???

You gloomy guses just don't understand. A baby is a gift from God. If God makes a baby come out of rape, then God has used the rapist's sin as a vessel of His divine will. God saved the day by making the rape have a purpose! The baby is the consolation prize!
You're just looking at the glass as half-empty! Once you get into the groove of God's perspective, things always come up roses. Or, er, fetuses. Whatever.

Haven't y'all ever talked to these kooky folks? This is the kind of shit they actually subscribe to. The rape, in the end, was a blessing, because babies are ALWAYS blessings by definition.

That's why I don't want these freaks touching my country's laws.

[cynatnite]

20. Pat Robertson supports abortion....

in China.

I didn't know that until I was doing some reading about overpopulation. Found this:

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=507

[REP]

24. Rape/Incest Exceptions Acknowledge That Pregnancy is Punishment

The rape/incest exceptions that nasty hypocritical pieces of filth allow in their love of life show what repellant liars they are. If the innocent little fetus deserves life, doesn't it deserve life whether it's mother was a horrible slut who liked spreading her legs and now needs to pay the price or was a suffering victin of forced sex? Result is the same - a precious preborn poppet! No, these exceptions just show that they want to punish women who have sex (and perhaps enjoy it). A rape/incest victim "has suffered enough" (because children are punishment ... right?).

They're not pro-life. They're pro-lie. Every last one of them that opposes abortion is a lying, controlling piece of filth. Don't forget it.

[readmoreoften]

25. "precious preborn poppet"

Best thing I've read all day.

I want to brand and market them. Imagine the jingle. "We carry the freshest-precious-preborn-poppets around!"

[elehhhhna]

30. Excellent post. May I suggest you start it as a thread? You

have made a very important point. Well done.

[mondo joe]

28. If you are opposed to abortion you should oppose it even in cases of rape

and incest.

There is no logical reason to except these IF your belief is that abortion is murder.

I am 100% pro choice and don't believe anyone has any business telling anyone else they have to carry out a pregnancy.

But I'm not the problem.

[elehhhhna]

31. IMO it's even worse that it's okay only IF the life of the Mother is is

imminent danger.

No other aspect of her health matters? Would a threat of suicide help? Would it count? What if delivery would cause her to be disabled? Youth pregnancies are by definition "high risk". What about a 10 y/o child?