Hey men of South Dakota ... I think you overlooked something:

[BattyDem]

When a woman got pregnant before abortion was legal, there was no way for her to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who the father was. All a guy had to do was spread rumors about the girl, claim she was a slut, trash her reputation by getting a few buddies to say they slept with her or that they knew other guys who slept with her, etc. It was her word against yours and since she was a fallen woman, no one was going to believe her. She was forced to leave town for almost a year. You (or your son) simply walked away and never had to think about it again.

Remember all that sex you had in college? You never had to deal with any consequences, did you? You just assumed that you never got anyone pregnant because no one ever told you that you did. You don't believe that abortion rights were ever an issue in your life and you don't expect them to be an issue in your son's life either. You taught him to be "careful" - just like you always were.

I bet it never even occurred to you that your college girlfriend may have gotten an abortion without telling you.


Well, my friends ... you just eliminated choice from a woman's life, so she'll probably end up having a baby that was conceived while you were being "careful". But wait ... it gets better. There is now a little thing called DNA testing. The girl can PROVE the kid belongs to you (or your son).

If you're the one who did the deed, you'll have to pay child support and your wife will find out that you've been a naughty boy - which means you may end up having to pay alimony as well. If your son did the deed, he will also be forced to pay child support, but if he's only 14 and can't afford to do it, you'll be footing the bill! I bet you never thought his college fund would be spent on diapers and baby food! It looks like his Ivy League future just flew out the window, huh?

No more rumors ... no more "muddying the waters" to make people think the father could be one of a dozen guys ... no more walking away without a care in the world. Guys, you're going to pay for the next 18 years ... and if the girl wasn't quite legal yet, you'll be paying a different price! :evilgrin:

I bet you never dreamed that controlling someone else's body was going to be so damn expensive, did you? :P

[brook]

1. Bravo!

Beautifully expressed.
:yourock:

K&R.

[PurpleChez]

83. Hear, hear! bravo!

[Yupster]

132. No way

The women will get abortions anyway.

They just won't get safe ones at clinics. They'll get them in back alleys. What difference will that make to the man?

[bunyip]

167. No difference, to that kind.

But the politicians who passed that law aren't sleeping with many college girls.

And lots of those college girls are anti-choice activists.

Don't turn this into a gender war - men are just as likely to support choice as women.

[Katherine Brengle]

2. love it! n/t

[NMMNG]

3. Payback is a....well, you know.

:evilgrin:

Let them reap what they sow, vile SOBs.

[ticapnews]

4. Who is going to foot the bill for all these DNA tests?

There is a cost associated with this...who gets to pick up the tab?

[Deja Q]

7. Apart from those who manage to get on Maury Povich's show, of course...

[CornField]

9. Initially, the state

(When the woman goes after the guy for child support.) If the woman's claim is true, the bill will then be handed to the man.

[BattyDem]

11. Exactly!

:evilgrin:

[Jane Austin]

14. DNA test to verify parentage in dogs runs about $50, if I recall

correctly.

It's not prohibitive, at any rate, because I did it for a litter of 9 from an accidental breeding.

Had to do sire, dam and all the puppies.

[samhsarah]

17. And if you get on Maury....

it's free.:+

[BattyDem]

21. And the whole world gets to see the look on the guy's face ...

when he's told it's him! B-)

It always makes me laugh ... they all look like it's not even possible that the kid is theirs. It's as if they're saying, "What do you mean it's me? Look man, I have no idea how my sperm got tangled up with her egg! Somebody's setting me up! Maybe she sat on a toilet seat or something."

[samhsarah]

22. Toilet seat...ROFL!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Maraya1969]

40. I think the courts can order one now. At least for fathers that are not

paying child support or I may be mistaken that they only pay for the ones where the women are on welfare.

If not this would be the great new bill to introduce - the state must pay for a DNA test if the person that the mother says it the father refutes and will not pay child support.

We need to get a Democrat from S. Dakota to draft a bill like that.

[Little Star]

52. It is cheap to get that type of DNA test

Just had a nephew who paid for one. It was like $50-$75 in Connecticut.

[trogdor]

69. Well within the expense account of some ambulance chaser.

...who advertises on TV.

[brer cat]

112. I've had little experience (thank God) but it's court ordered and paid by

the "loser." She if he is vindicated, he if he's caught. It's been decades since I was in VA, but even 30 years ago, the court would order paternity tests (totally unreliable then) whether the male was willing or not. DNA testing is way far more accurate today.

[Fridays Child]

5. K and freakin' R!

:woohoo:

[Deja Q]

6. Out of every evil comes a greater good, albeit unintentional...

Now watch as the creeps# try to fiddlefart around with child support too and destroy any unintentional good this abortion law allows... (not that I am suggesting this new law is good or evil; I have no power therefore anything I believe on the issue is just as worthless, and as I am a male it's none of my business in the first place. My business is to be responsible with my own parts and nobody else's and that is what I intend to do.)

# for some reason, I just can't say "fuckers". Too obvious an unintentional pun...

[sinkingfeeling]

148. They're already starting. Bush's budget is reducing $ used

to collect child support.

[ThomCat]

151. Of course. The next big push will be to protect guys

from having to take responsibility. It will become increasingly difficult to order DNA tests.

[Chovexani]

8. Ha!

I can't wait for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Awesome post. :yourock:

[radwriter0555]

10. In South Dakota, the number one cause of death among pregnant women is

murder.

At the hands of their mate or spouse.

Gosh, what a great place to live.

So instead of bashing South Dakota, let's suggest all our republican pals move there.

[BattyDem]

12. Seriously?

Wow, that's really sad ... and infuriating!

[radwriter0555]

19. Yes, in 13 states, including SD, murder is the number one cause of death

among pregnant women.

America is such a great place to live!

[northofdenali]

28. rad, if you have time, I'd love to have the list -

it'll fit right in with an article I'm trying (really trying!) to write. I've tried googling the demographics, because I'd heard this stat before, but my google skills are notoriously rotten.

:hi:

[momster]

43. Check the Washington Post

Last summer, they did a multi-day article series on this very subject. Frightening.

[AllegroRondo]

45. These stats came to light due to the Scott Peterson trial

journalists started looking into murder of pregnant women and found out that it happens more often than most people think.

[aquart]

157. Are those the states that make abortion most difficult?

[Marie26]

48. I think that's true anywhere in the US

Sad, isn't it?

[fleabert]

76. I believe that is true for the US, not just SD. nt

[Dora]

13. Well, it's not the way that I would have done it....

But it's certainly another way of redistributing the wealth.

:sarcasm: x .5

[sproutster]

15. Well wasn't it nice of the administration to lay off of dead beat dads...

Just in time.

[northofdenali]

29. I've always thought that if they are "laid off" or not working

for whatever reason, deadbeat dads (or moms) could make great strides in removing litter from our roadsides..............

[samhsarah]

16. Hell F*N Yeah!!!!

Dumb bastards.

[seabeyond]

18. you are so right. hadnt even thought of this. why hadnt i thought

about this. every fuckin male saying girls must have the babies. well BOYS your wage will be minus the money to raise that child. alright. this is an angle i have not used. i have friends and family with sons, and males all screwin around telling me a girl should be responsible. well boys, time for a little responsibility on your part.

kick ass and thank you

[smtpgirl]

121. you don't think that the pro-lifers

would think of that? I wonder what the SD bill really says?

Could there be hidden disclaimers in it?

[dorktv]

134. I read the bill, this is NOT covered.

And it will cause a lot of young women to not get Plan B because the way it is written is very confusing.

That is what probably will be struck down actually by SCOTUS, none of the new judges have said what they think of Griswold v CT or the other birth control one.

[Old and In the Way]

20. No Choice - It's not just for women anymore.

I think this is another huge political miscalculation by the Right. If this doesn't motivate 18 YO's to vote Democrat, I don't know what will. I'd target this audience with this issue on GOTV.

[BattyDem]

23. Forgive my ignorance ... what is GOTV?

:shrug:

[kestrel91316]

30. Get Out The Vote

[BattyDem]

32. Ok ... now I feel stupid

Why didn't I know that? :blush:

On edit: Thanks for replying. :-)

[Radio_Lady]

170. Don't feel bad, BattyDem. I can't remember most of the acronyms

used here, even though I've been told them over and over again.

MIHOP and LIHOP, BFEE, jeeze... my mind is blank tonight.

Um--- can't remember them.

[Mr. Blonde]

26. In many states a man who can prove he isn't the father still has to

pay child support if he has already been paying it. A man hasn't had choice when it comes to that part of it for a long long time.

[Old and In the Way]

36. The difference being, that mutual consent to terminate will no longer

be an option. This will impact as many males as it will women. I'm sure the average young buck has been busy with his life's interests and not putting a whole lot of time into thinking about this issue. That'll change for the guys living in SD real soon.

[slide to the left]

73. I took

a friend to a clinic to have an abortion a while back. Her fiance was working out of town at the time. Most of the people in the clinic were couples. There was one other girl that was with her friends and one teenager with her friend's parents. Other than that is was ALL couples. If men don't stand up for womens' rights, this is what they get.

[sandnsea]

37. No, only if there's an established relationship

Within a marriage, the man is automatically the legal father and is therefore the one legally required to pay support. The child shouldn't have to suffer for the sins of the parents and all of that. And if a man has been the only father a child knows, then the child shouldn't lose that financial stability at 6 or 10 or 14. Most men would accept the responsibility willingly anyway. Same goes for long term relationships without the benefit of marriage, these days.

[spooky3]

44. do you have a link to support this assertion?

[Mr. Blonde]

72. Here you go

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48871

[spooky3]

163. Sorry, worldnetdaily is not a credible source.

Notice also that the article did not present statistics on how many men or what % of men actually continue to pay child support after proven not to be the father. The article danced all around it, and also made unsupported assertions.

[Marie26]

49. No, he can file to dispute paternity

and ask for a DNA test. No child support if the court finds he is not the father. So what you're saying isn't correct.

[knitter4democracy]

67. It is in Michigan.

It's state law that the father is the father, regardless of DNA. There's a movement to change that, but it hasn't happened yet. It depends on how long they've been married and how long the child has been in his care, but if he's been the dad, he's still the dad in the law.

[Yupster]

131. Famous case near me

a few years ago made Sixty Minutes or one of the clone programs.

Anyway, a guy had three kids with his wife. His wife eventually moved out to live with her boyfriend and the couple divorced and he paid child support for the three kids.

Then the wife told him the kids weren't his anyway and she had been having the affair for years with the boyfriend.

He had DNA tests and sure enough two of the three kids were not his.

He took it to court and lost. He was ordered to pay child support to his ex-wife and live-in boyfriend who was the actual father of the kids. When he refused the state (Texas) took his wages. It was on appeal when the show aired. He was also in danger f going to prison because he told the kids why he stopped paying and the judge had ordered him not to tell them.

[Bridget Burke]

50. Yes, there is a time limit.

If a man accepts a child as his, he needs to pay support. If he gets a new wifie 10 years later who'd rather he spent the money on her--it may be too late.

I'd recommend DNA testing as part of the divorce process. Or genetic testing at birth; of course, in those cases, a divorce is almost certain.

[bunyip]

169. Genetic testing at birth?

"Honey, I'm so proud of you. Are you sure it's not the milkman's? Where's that DNA check."

Trust must not be a priority for you.

And any requirement to pay a cheating slut for someone elses kid is a terrible injustice.
Paternity fraud is a crime, and needs to be recognised as such.

[Captain Hilts]

24. Excellent! nt

[northofdenali]

25. K&R BattyDem

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On edit: GOTV - Get Out The Vote

[Canuckistanian]

27. It's like that old small-town saying

Stranger: "Why does the population of this town never change?"

Town Person: "Because every time a baby is born, a man leaves town."

[kestrel91316]

31. K & R!!!!!!!!

[Triana]

33. K & R!!

Nothing like watching men shoot themselves in the...

*cough*

foot.

:evilgrin:

[hiaasenrocks]

34. This will actually be good

for daytime TV like Maury Povich. Isn't his show the one with all the shocking paternity test results?

"The Women Of South Dakota" strikes me as a good title.

Maybe a "Gone Wild" series, too.

All of this could be avoided, of course, if men and women take their responsibilities seriously. I do my part, and I don't get involved with irresponsible women. Seems to work just fine.

[Clark2008]

102. Instead of RAWA - the Revolutionary Association of the Women

of Afghanistan - we'll have the RAWS(d). ;)

[roguevalley]

35. Jeez. Finally, a ray of light in this darkness.

:evilgrin:

[liveoaktx]

38. Wonder what Tom Leykis thinks about this.

[TygrBright]

39. Is Tom Leykis...

...the creepy sackofchit SD Legislator who, when nailed down kicking and screaming by a reporter from the Lehrer News Hour, allowed as how it MIGHT be possible for a rape victim to qualify for an abortion if she was a 14-year-old Catholic virgin who was brutally raped, beaten, sodomized, etc. (I don't know what-all else, I gagged and flipped channels when he got to that point)?

Gawd, I SO wanted that reporter to say "I see, so 14-year-old Catholic virgins might qualify, but not 42-year-old mothers? How about your mother, bud? If she was raped and impregnated by her rapist, you'd deny her an abortion, would you? Have you asked your mother if she thinks that's OK?"

I sweartogod, that sickfook was getting a boner describing all the horrible things that would have to be done to the innocent 14-year-old virgin in order to make it okay for her to get an abortion. It was grotesque.

revoltedly,
Bright

[bdot]

41. All men in S.D. had sex? It's a good thing i don't live there.

[formercia]

42. Right on the money

and those theofascists prefer bareback. Have fun boys.

They will like it even better when they find out they were the one in 25 that impregnated the High School Saturday night special.

[lala_rawraw]

46. Roger Hunt

Is the bill's sponsor... start digging:)

[BlueEyedSon]

47. Don't be silly, premarital sex is a sin. No man would ever do that!

:sarcasm:

[wicket]

51. Thank-you sister

:hug:

[raccoon]

53. Great post, Batty! Maybe you could work this into an LTTE? nt

[Brundle_Fly]

54. South Dakota and

Ivy League in the same sentence... heh.

[cantstandbush]

55. Watch for the move in Republican led Congress to limit DNA testing

to criminal cases only or to exclude it from paternity testing.

[BattyDem]

60. LOL!

:rofl:

Ok ... so maybe "Ivy League" was a bit much ... but you get the point. ;-)

[smirkymonkey]

118. That was what stood out for me too...

Hah - I wonder why? :sarcasm:

[CrispyQ]

56. I second the LTTE idea.

Find a paper in SD with the biggest circulation & send it there.

Wonderfully stated.

[progressivebydesign]

57. The assholes that pass these laws take their girlfriends out of state.

Don't you know that the folks in power, the ones with the money, simply take their girlfriends out of state or to a trusted family doctor to "take care of it"? I'd venture to guess the percentage of the 'holier than thou' legislators in any state, or in D.C., who have paid for abortions for their mistresses and romps. Hypocrites.. all of them.

[bullwinkle428]

61. Beat me to the punch - rich wingnuts will always find & use the

loopholes, but Joe Sixpack-Freeper WILL have to deal with these unforeseen consequences!

[sofa king]

58. A beautiful post!

Thank you for giving me a chuckle.

I would go a step farther and suggest that thanks to the other prongs in the Republican social engineering pitchfork, the problem will become almost immediately apparent and become a disaster in short order.

That second prong is abstinence. Teaching abstinence to hormone-addled kids is an exercise in futility, so I fully expect underage pregnancies to increase at the same time that they cannot legally terminate those pregnancies. The third prong is the removal of the social safety net--further irritated by having to spend education savings on child support. A fourth potential prong is the severe reduction in mobility that Americans are going to experience due to energy shortages.

Improper birth control, no abortion, no healthcare, no relief, no education, and no escape will quickly drive South Dakotans to subsistence living conditions and ever-increasing population pressure, that's the Republican vision for the future.

There is a country which already lives with those conditions. It's a little place in Africa called Rwanda.

[Auntie Bush]

59. Another question or HUGE thorn in the eye of men in SD.

Since a fetus is declared a "person"...and a guy helps his mate get an illegal abortion...and she dies...can he be accused and prosecuted for the murder of two people?

[Extend a Hand]

62. GREAT Post!

[Dinger]

63. Oh Boy, POST OF THE DAY!

Congrats!:yourock:

[Catamount]

64. Wondefully said, BattyDem......

Can you put this notice into the local papers ?

At least send a copy to the bleeping Governor!

Thanks for putting this into terms these repugs really care about!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Nostradammit]

65. Yeppers -

My only consolation in seeing the right-wing succeeding in their schemes is the knowledge that EVERYONE would be miserable in their world. Of course, I don't wish to live there, so I fight like hell against it.

You ain't so batty, BattyDem.

[donsu]

66. gold star awarded, thank you

nt

[HippieCowgirl]

68. I'm going to copy your idea

and put the idea in my own words to the local newsrag. Great post!

[wellst0nev0ter]

70. And For Any Self-Hating Women Who Supports This

Just recommend the death penalty for anyone who knowingly murders a fetus - I mean "unborn child". Do they really want to see women who had miscarriages go through murder trials?

[bubba j]

71. Interesting points, but....

You seem to assume ALL men are irresponsible about sex. Not true.

You also seem to think ALL women are virtuous. Not true.

Otherwise, wonderful points.

[annabanana]

78. not all, bubba dear,. . just enough. . . . n/t

[BattyDem]

97. It wasn't my intention to comment on responsibility or virtue.

I'm talking about a woman's right to control her own body; I'm talking about choice.

My post was simply pointing out that men (and let's face it - most elected officials are men) love to make laws that control women because they don't believe it's their problem or that it will affect them in any way.

I decided to enlighten them. :evilgrin:

74. I hope there are consequences for the male side of the equation

Also I think from what I have heard on the news, that they won't be able to put this law of abortion being illegal into effect because the lower courts will not support it. However then it will go up to the supreme court, which is what they want.

[sojourner]

75. Good catch! (I never dreamed there might be an "upside" to this crappola)

You are admirably evil BattyDem. (I mean that in the most complementary way possible!!) :toast:

[Canuckistanian]

77. Not to mention DNA tests

There were no DNA tests when abortion was illegal.

So now it's no longer "her word against yours".

Better have a good paying job, 'cause 18 years of child support is a bitch.

[RazzleDazzle]

79. "when abortion was illegal" -- one quibble

Prior to Roe v. Wade in 1972, abortion was NOT universally "illegal." IIRC, some states had made it illegal and perhaps more were moving to do so, but certainly not all. Abortion had NOT ever been illegal in all the states.

[Canuckistanian]

80. Interesting. I assumed it was.

I should learn more about the history.

[Jamnt]

81. Told in terms any Repug can understand!!

[DemReadingDU]

82. K&R

[Gatchaman]

84. This needs to be one of those chain emails

to all those freeper friends, relatives, and acquaintances who send endless right wing horseshit.

[Rex_Goodheart]

85. I love this letter!

Bravo!

[Rex_Goodheart]

86. Serious question, though..

Can a girl actually force a boy to submit to a DNA test against his will?

[brer cat]

110. yes. That has been true for decades. Pregnant girls can't hide...

and neither can the boys. Who pays is usually the "loser."

on edit: applies to women and men as well. Sorry! I replied before I thought.

[jmowreader]

113. Well, kinda

They use the same theory that guides blood-alcohol tests: you don't have to take the test, but if you don't we just assume you're guilty.

[Scout]

87. Brava! Bravissima!! n/t

[Batgirl]

88. I assume these laws that are intended to control female sexuality

have special unwritten exemptions for the hypocrites who promote them. As usual.
They can't help it if they happen to have been gifted with special divine permission to govern their own sex lives while everyone else needs a helping hand from the government.

[Imalittleteapot]

89. Criminalize

getting a girl/woman pregnant without her written permission.

[NanceGreggs]

90. Good one, BattyDem!!!

K'd & R'd!

[jean]

91. One point: The SD legislature and governor rammed this through, not

the men of South Dakota. There was no referendum but, apparently, plenty of outside money.

[BattyDem]

100. But it's mostly RW fundie men that push the politicians into ...

making these laws. If they were from out-of-state, then that is truly a shame because both the men and women of SD are going to pay the price for something they might not have wanted.

[LiberalinNC]

92. Don't forget Court Costs - ya know the man will cry he's not the dad

so they will end up in court, where the DNA test(s) will be done.

Great job!!! For every step forward we as a country have done, we have taken giant leaps backwards w/ the chimp in office.

[Dr Fate]

93. Que up the "Whaaaap whaaaa" horn.

Whaaaap whaaaaaaaaaa!!!

[Child_Of_Isis]

94. Absolutely freaking beautiful!!! eom.

[janetle]

95. What a great post!

And my first thought when the SD gov signed that bill was when the first 14 year old girl dies from a botch job--the blood will be on his hands.

[Janice325]

96. Brilliant post!!!

I don't think the legislature thought this one through.
I certainly didn't, and I'm a woman.
Kicked and recommended.

[neuvocat]

98. Exactly.

I'm pretty sure that birth control and condom sales will skyrocket now.

[clydefrand]

99. Right on, Batty. I beg to differ. You're far from batty.

I hope all the "boys" and men have to pay the price for their legislators' stupidity. As soon as they start, we might even see an end to this abortion issue in our government. Hope one of the legislators is the first to have to pay child support and alimony at the same time to two different females!!!

[mousie]

101. EXCELLENT!!!!! n/t

[WestMichRad]

103. Okay, that's it - enough!

Will have to superglue a rubber to my sons, and get them catheters!

[BattyDem]

104. Ouch!

:rofl:

[BlueStorm]

105. Beautiful...absolutly beautiful...

Once again, we see how the government jumps the gun on an issue before thinking it through... now I'm just going to bring out the popcorn and watch these men squirm as the full implications of the anti-abortion law takes effect.:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Blu

[trotsky]

106. Excellent post, but you just know...

that Republicans will see to it that they can still have access to safe, legal abortion. A trip to Canada, a jaunt over to Europe, they and theirs will be taken care of.

[Xithras]

107. Just one point of contention.

Grandparents can't be forced to pay child support for a grandchild, and in most states minors can't be forced to pay child support (typically it accrues until they turn 18).

My little sister learned this lesson the hard way when she got pregnant at 16 and tried to go after her then 16 year old boyfriend for support. She won an "award", but he didn't actually have to pay her a dime until he turned 18.

Other than that...great post!

[BattyDem]

111. Really? I always thought the parents were held responsible.

I just learned something. :-)

But ... if the boy has a college fund (in his name), couldn't the girl go after that? Just a thought. :shrug:

On edit: I wonder if that law differs from state to state? Does anyone know? I'm just curious because I know parents are often held responsible for property damage (by their kids), so it just seems odd to me that they wouldn't be held responsible for this kind of "damage" - after all, it's a bit more serious than a broken window!

[Xithras]

159. Almost never, the mothers parents are legally responsible.

In fact, here in California is a minor mother goes on welfare and the father is a minor, the state can actually pursue child support against the mothers parents. Legally, a girl is the responsibility of her parents until she turns 18 or is emancipated, and any children born to her are considered to be part of that responsibility.

Now, there HAVE been cases where judges have ordered wealthy grandparents to provide for a grandchild while the parents were minors, but those cases are rare and many have been overturned on appeal.

Until a child turns 18 or becomes emancipated, he can't legally be required to work. If he can't be required to work, he can't be required to provide support. Simple as that.

And in most states, grandchildren can't be held as "damages" because the mother chooses to incur them. A woman can use birth control, she can require her partner do the same, she can abort if a pregnancy does occur, and she can give the child up for adoption if it is born. Our society doesn't force motherhood on anybody and it provides plenty of opportunities to opt out. By keeping the child and electing to raise it herself, the minor mother has essentially chosen to take on that responsibility and those expenses. While the father has a moral requirement to help from birth, and a legal requirement to help from age 18, the parents of the father cannot be held legally responsible because they had no input or control over the situation. And the girl cannot go after the fathers college fund because the minor father typically doesn't HAVE one. Minors cannot have wealth of their own without being emancipated, so the "college fund" is actually the property of the grandparents...and is therefore protected just like the rest of their income. The mother MIGHT be able to make a play for any cash in bank accounts held in the name of the minor father himself, but relatively few have those and even fewer have any substantial amount of money in them.

There is one bright spot in all of this. While minor fathers aren't required to PAY child support from birth in most states, they DO accrue child support. In the case of my sister, her kids dad was nailed with a massive back child support bill the day he turned 18. My sister never saw a dime of it thanks to our convoluted child support system here in Ca., but as I understand it he was hit pretty hard.

[BattyDem]

168. Thanks for the info.

:toast:

[cally]

108. I love your post

:woohoo: K&R

[raggedcompany]

109. An inspired comment, thanks! n/t

[Megahurtz]

114. HOWEVER, what will really be bad is

when these assholes impregnate a woman and then the man takes away legal custody
of the baby after it's born (yes, it happens)
and then the woman is forced to pay child support to him!:grr:
Don't forget that this could also be another heinous scenario!:grr:

[JMDEM]

140. This is extremely rare

The woman has to be a real screw-up for this to happen in most states. Usually, it has to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that she is a danger to her own children -- e.g., she is a drug addict, she is certifiably insane, she is arrested for a felony, etc.

The courts primary concern is the welfare of the child, and usually the courts determine that a mother provides better care than a father. In fact, there is a huge burden of proof on a father who tries to gain custody. Huge burden.

Beyond that, the courts are primarily concerned that the state doesn't end up paying for the child. Therefore they tend to come down like a ton of bricks on the father to pay child support, largely because this means the state doesn't have to pay, via welfare or whatever.

We hear a lot about deadbeat dads because it is an emotional issue that can get a lot of votes for a candidate. But in reality, most states have a very real financial concern that fathers pay so the state doesn't have to, so they really go after deadbeat dads ferociously. No sexism or reverse sexism here -- its all financial -- all dollars. States find it very cost effective to go after deadbeat dads, so they do it with a vengeance.

[radio4progressives]

115. Oh yea.. and there's always Welfare!!

Let's just get on Welfare!!!

Hope South Dakota can afford it!

[NVMojo]

116. and Bush doesn't want to fund helping collect child support or welfare

so that means the state will have to step up enforcement of child support to keep the unwed moms off welfare ...this could be an interesting dance of death for the repuke fundies

[file83]

117. I can't wait until they OUTLAW condoms.

The US will turn into Africa or Mexico: Population Exlosion - Poverty - Aids

[InvisibleTouch]

119. This one's a keeper.

Every now and again I come across a post here that expresses something so perfectly that I just have to copy it to my hard drive for posterity. This is one of them. Excellent points, and well said!

[smtpgirl]

120. AWESOME

[WillyT]

122. Beautiful... Just Absolutely Beautiful !!! - BRAVO !!!

K & R !!!

:toast::bounce::loveya::bounce::toast:

:yourock:

[EvolveOrConvolve]

123. Threatening conservative men with child support is bound to backfire

The chest-thumping conservative men will simply try to get child support payments reduced. Bush will call it the "Gender Equity Remuneration Measure" (G.E.R.M.), and it will fit in perfectly with his "Clean Skies" and "Healthy Forests" initiatives.

<sarcasm>Besides, conservatives don't believe in abortion so NONE of them will have to worry about it</sarcasm>

[BattyDem]

126. G.E.R.M .... LOL!

:rofl:

Oh damn... I don't know why I'm laughing - you're probably right.

[Imagevision]

124. Excellant posting -- I couldn't have said it better...!

[yorkiemommie1]

125. GREAT post !!!

needs to be spread around !

:applause:

[countmyvote4real]

127. Awesome.

SD is the wake-up call for the rest of Amerika.

[jwirr]

128. Batty, you must be the same age as I am. I lived through

those years and you are not exaggerating. The double standard was alive and kicking. There were two kinds of girls (but not boys)- the good girls and those from the other side of the tracks. It was hell and it was the most hypocritical era in modern days with the exception of today when these so called leaders pretend to have God-given values and think only of themselves. I would not get an abortion myself and hope that my daughters and granddaughters would not do it either but I do not want to force my values on any one else. Shame on SD.

[BattyDem]

129. I'm 38, so I don't remember it, but ...

my mother told me plenty of stories about it. It makes me so angry to think that my nieces may have to endure the things that all those young women had to endure. :grr:

[jwirr]

153. Yeah, I am 64. Glad to have those days over at least in part.

the SD bill will open part of it up again but most of us are older and wiser.

[opihimoimoi]

130. Reality is such a Slap in the Face ...Especially when Self Inflicted

[allalone]

133. is South Dickota a rich state?

how much will they be spending on deadbeat dads if this idiocy holds up?

[Mojambo]

135. AWESOME.FUCKING.POST n/t

[wiley]

136. And what about the STDs or HIV or HCV?

Will the men be charged with that? Rape? I think there's going to be a whole lot less women sticking around in SD. Is Incest a crime in SD?

[brettdale]

137. So when does the Supreme Court rule on this

If they rule in favour of the new law, Faux news of course will spin it something like this.

Liberals are lying, they are saying they are upset at the Supreme Court, but they are loving it, they think it will win them the mid terms, its the way they think, we at Faux wont let them get away with it.


"By thw way Im pro choice"

[Garrett]

138. Unintended consequences?

I just shook my head when they interviewed some of these pompous SD legislators. I thought of a bunch of evil things to wish them...and then I thought "no wonder all their young people are leaving." They're a bunch of old farts who are forcing any fertile/young people (AKA The Future) to move out of state. I love it when "unintended consequences" turn out to be the best payback.

[Texacrat]

139. I've gotten into a lot of trouble for making this point

But I probably deserve it for the way I say it.

[stevietheman]

141. I wonder how many men, once they realize this, will say...

"Uhh... I never said abortion was murder. I just didn't like the sound of it... Well, until I found out some new information."

LOL

[prete_nero]

142. all men are evil...

...apparently. I think that I understand the viewpoints of the majority of people on this discussion thread. I just wonder why everyone is suddenly taking the idea that all South Dakota men are back-woods hicks who would like to keep their women barefoot and pregnant. I can say that from the guys I have talked to that this is not true.
I suppose it is important to say that I am a South Dakota man...albeit a liberal, college aged, gay South Dakota male. But despite this I still felt that this article unfairly attacks men. Okay, now don't get pissed at me, I understand that there are guys that will be the complete pigs that they are expected to be....but come on guys, to talk as if all SD guys are that way? Now that is just being blind.
There are two reasons that I decided to write my first every reply to a forum article (even though it is at the end of it, and unlikely to be read)
First...I would like anyone who reads this to understand that the bad men stereotyped in this article do exist in South Dakota, as do they exist in every other state of this union and every other country on earth. We are not a great exception. The majority of men I talk to from here highly respect women and their opinions. There is a great difference between being a conservative state and being a state filled with jerks. I admit that on a very few issues I lean conservative, but that is probably only because I have been raised in this environment and it rubs off.
Second, the political situation is kind of different in SD. I heard a lady on public radio describe it as a public legislature or something like that. I belive what she meant was that ALL of the representatives to our state government are average people. We mostly do not have "specialized" people who's job it is to be a politician. Most of the politicians I know have seperate jobs locally and are not considered "politicians" by the people that know them. This also leads into the idea that for the most part, state politics are not very impressive around here, most people don't know what the people they vote for actually stand for...it is very much a party-lines type thing. This may sound bad, but usually it works for smaller communities because the republicans all agree on stuff as do most democrats. The major flaw with this lack of interest and "public legislature" is that it takes comparatively little money to elect someone in SD. There are allegations of outside (GOP) people pushing very hard and funding specific people in SD. These representatives do NOT accurately represent the majority of South Dakotans!
EVERY single SD person I have talked to about this issue has either known about it and dissagreed with the ban, or they didn't know and when informed...disagreed with it!

Now I don't really have huge ground breaking point...but I just though I might explain a little of the reasoning behind why this was allowed to happen..as I personally see it.

Finally, the jokes about SD be "backwoods" and "hicks" and all that lame stuff is just pathetic. We are exactly like the rest of the country but with a smaller population density. I promise you that if SDakotans smushed into the population density of the larger cities then we'd act just like "you guys".

...ugh, final idea...just don't judge people based on where they live? Asking too much I suppose.

[Iris]

145. And what no one ever seems to mention here is that in most polls,

men come out as more pro-choice than women.

[redqueen]

149. Source? n/t

[Iris]

166. 3 sources - 2 w/men in majority and 1 opposite

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/22/opinion/polls/main537570.shtml


http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11385.xml?ReleaseID=738

While American voters have mixed opinions about abortion, they support the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision 63 - 33 percent, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Men support it 68 - 28 percent, while women support it 58 - 37 percent.



http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/abortion_poll030122.html

[redqueen]

171. *sigh*

I hope the last one's more accurate.

I just can't stand the idea of so many women being so... *sigh*

[Puppyjive]

143. I practice planned parenthood

I practice planned parenthood, I refuse to have sex with Republicans.

[Hubert Flottz]

144. Cut them OFF!

Boycott the ?ricks!(no pun intended)

[Skeptor]

146. That is an absolutely beautiful response. Fight fear-mongers with fear,

and bastard-mongers with bastards!

[Vinca]

147. Do I sense a business opportunity here? Zipper locks!!

Sorry, South Dakota guys. Life just got a whole lot more complicated. Great post!

[redqueen]

150. Bravo!

:applause:

:kick:

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

154. Once the father who wants the baby can carry it, we'll talk.

Until then, tough luck.

As for men wanting babies their partner's don't want, maybe those chuckleheads could inquire as to any plans in case there is an accidental preganancy BEFORE the accident happens?

Oh yeah, and I alerted on you for calling anyone who disagrees with you on your post a "feminazi".

Enjoy your stay.

[darkmaestro019]

155. (throws roses) you rock.

Please, please send that to SD newspapers. Please. Or any newspapers.

[cain_7777]

156. Christians don't have sex until married, right?

Nice article. Not many of these anti-abortionists can think ahead. Blinded by their religion, they impose it on others and fight their small minded agendas.

[burythehatchet]

158. Love your essay.

:thumbsup: Let these bastards eat themselves. Progressives need to leave, it ain't gonna be pretty.

[savemefromdumbya]

160. Losing a lot of male Republican votes here!

:evilgrin:

[Taverner]

161. RIGHT ON!!!

K and R

[confludemocrat]

162. Your reasoning is sound but wouldn't and won't deter such men

They think as masters of the universe that there will always be a "work-around", a concept white males are born or inevitably grow into and that has been reinforced by Bush who has smirkingly gotten away with everything and with the full active or tacit acquiescence of the populace.

[0kamisama]

164. I'm only guessing here...

I'll bet that in just a few years time from now, when South Dakotans realize how much further in debt they've dug themselves into (someone has to pay for all those DNA tests and child support fees), they'll look back at this same bill and wonder how the hell they let a bill like this one slip through.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

165. Woohoo! Great post! I'd like to add this....

Women need to think about getting the hell out of South Dakota. Leave the state in frikkin' darkness till the males decide they really do like freedom of choice for women, and not just for them. (Unless they would much prefer one another's company... there is that Brokeback Mountain situation possibility...)

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