Crunchy Conservatives

[Cats Against Frist]

There's been a row over at NRO lately about a book written by this guy named Rod Dreher, who posits that there are a whole bunch of conservatives out there who are living a "crunchy," (read: granola), lifestyle, and advocates what is traditionally seen as a leftist (Jonah Goldberg calls it "Christian Marxist") critique of the dangers of technology, the loss of traditional values in a globalist economy, concern about the environment and the pitfalls of ceding local community to a national consciousness.

Let me say this: IT IS FASCINATING. If you're into the political philosophy, sustainable living, studying the intricacies of the GOP, the influence of religion on culture, the free market and "granola-ism," it is a must-read.

Here is a quote from Goldberg:

Nonetheless, there is a lot I don't get about crunchy conservatism. But, in my own defense, I don't think this is because I have failed to turn my face to the warm beam of God's enlightenment, radiantly glowing forth from inside the cellophane oyster shell of a Whole Foods couscous platter.

I cannot fully articulate how I feel about it, because I'm not done reading the blog, and taking it all in. However, I will provide links to a couple of starting points, and the blog, itself. I would love to discuss it, once I take it all in.

http://crunchycon.nationalreview.com/

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200603020807.asp

I guess -- a couple of questions, to start out:

People have asked how a "crunchy con" differs from a "hippie Christian." What does this mean for the right-left spectrum?

To what extent are our own traditionally recognized values, as progressives, similar to the "crunchy cons," and what could it mean for a potential meaningful revolution in society?

To reiterate: IT IS VERY FASCINATING, and I highly recommend checking it out.

[Atman]

1. Jonah is NOT a "granola" kind of guy.

He's never met a Hostess Cupcake he didn't like. With a side of Twinkies. He's a traditional Fat Slob Republican.

[Cats Against Frist]

4. I know -- he's like all against the whole "Crunchy Con" thing

His position is, however, one of the best parts of reading about it. He's got his saggy briefs all the way up in his crack over it. It's kind of funny -- and I must admit that as much as I dislike Goldberg, it was a well-written defense, and has many interesting points. Dreher and others counter his position, on the blog.

[bunkerbuster1]

7. Jonah is a Warrior!

"As for why my sorry ass isn't in the kill zone, lots of people think this is a searingly pertinent question. No answer I could give -- I'm 35 years old, my family couldn't afford the lost income, I have a baby daughter, my ass is, er, sorry, are a few -- ever seem to suffice."

--Jonah "Chickenhawk" Goldberg

[mattclearing]

2. I prefer my Republicans creamy, personally.

:D

[Cats Against Frist]

10. I don't like to think of "Jonah Goldberg" and "Creamy" together

:scared:

[mattclearing]

11. LOL. n/t

[amitten]

13. I prefer mine sauteed in white wine with mushrooms. n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

3. While I'm sure some probably exist, I've never met anyone like this.

If they're out there, I seriously doubt they exist in any significant numbers to matter.

[Cats Against Frist]

6. I don't know if they do, either, but it's certainly interesting

It's interesting from the standpoint of the whole red/blue culture war thing. For us, there are some grandiose predictions made by Dreher -- one such is that this could usher in an anti-consumer time in the US. I don't know about that, exactly, but it's interesting to think about.

The only one that I might know is the owner of the local health food store, who seems to be a Bush supporter, but she and her husband seem kind of progressive in all other ways. I don't know.

I've long been fascinated by "food fights" over organic products, and why they inspire so much vitriol. The really important part of Dreher's book, however, is when he talks about the envrionment. I haven't read the book, though -- just various accounts. I'm going to try to get my hands on it -- just found out about all of this, today.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. Oh, my

you don't live in a college town, I'm thinking? They are all over around here. You know, I read once if you are far enough to the left and far enough to the right, you'll meet each other on the other side somewhere. (Like out in the woods in Idaho somewhere, chasing your chickens) I think this is what is happening. The interesting thing is how much of their world view is similar to the left. But they frame it in a Christian perspective. I mean, I know plenty of lefties who are against abortion because it kills and they don't believe in killing of any type, whether it is war, whatever. But they don't support more government intervention. That is the sense I get here. I would think (without reading it yet) that one huge sticking point would be gay rights. I wonder how they feel about that? Are they for live and let live, or do they want more government intervention in that?

Fascinating stuff and I look forward to reading it.

[Democrats_win]

5. Yes, I've seen this in the newspaper. Interesting. How can they be grey?

Isn't the point of being a wing-nut that everything is black and white? Yet now we see that they were grey all along. Some things are ok to some wing nuts but not to others? Can you see their heads exploding over this?

Can you say hypocrisy? Flip-flop?

[Cats Against Frist]

9. Since I haven't read the book

I'm not sure to what extent that religious absolutes (which is responsible for much of the "black and white") play into Dreher's philosophy. However, Goldberg does call him a Christian Marxist, and someone on the blog points out that Dreher's dislike of the free market stems from a hate of athiestic systems.

It's interesting though, when you take into account that the left inherited its claim on governance through Rousseau, and the idea of the just society, and the non-denominational Creator. People on here rail against Ayn Rand, all the time, about what she lacked: which is altruism, which is Jefferson and Rousseau. We soften our stance on Republicans and Religion when we take into account the abolition of slavery and civil rights. We claim them as "our own," but, really -- they are a part of a long-gone Republican party tradition. We hate religion, but demand a morality, to protect us from the globalists and libertarians. These "gray" Republicans ARE a gray area, where we meet -- and where some progressive solutions can be maximized.

I have to stop. It's too god damn fascinating.

[Sammy Pepys]

12. Yeah, I was following a little bit of that too.

I'll say this much, and I'm serious....don't underestimate the intellectual roots of the right. Regardless of how out-of-touch many of them are with those prinicples, they still have a level of appreciation I wish more of the left had for its own intellectual roots.

[Cats Against Frist]

14. Yes

I don't underestimate the intellectual roots of the right, and it's part of the reason that I find the whole thing so fascinating.

[Sammy Pepys]

15. A guy I work with...

...bit of a conservative/libertarian type who is nice to fault is kind of a hobbyist of sorts in the whole conservative philosophy game. HE even lent me a copy of Hayek's "Road to Serfdom," which I'm still trying to work through. But the level of knowledge this guy has about the intellectual history of conservatism is fascinating. Thankfully, he's never tried to sell me on anything, but it really makes me jealous.

[On the Road]

16. Lots of People

do not fit a stereotype, and have unusual blends of beliefs and practices.

Personally, I believe a lot of what creates conservatives like this is experience with bureaucracies, particularly government bureaucracies. Democrats are associated with a political philosophy of social and economic change by government program. It's not as true as it once was, but the perception remains.

I believe the party needs to do a better job at justifying goverment intervention and reminding people how well some government programs work. It would help if the party can also establish a reputation for making programs more efficiently run and more cost-effective. Showing how social goals can be met in a non-bureaucratic way is a third thing the party can do.

A lot of these "crunchy conservatives" are potential Democratic converts. They just need a little change in perception. I do not think of it as the DLC method of appeasing and being GOP-lite. It's more along Howard Dean lines.

[EwokMyWeewok]

17. a nazi is a nazi is a nazi

amirite

[Cats Against Frist]

18. Jonah? Is that you?

[LeftyMom]

19. I know people like that

If you ever want to see them in thier natural enviornment, check out any attatchment parenting oriented organization or message board. They usually make up about a third of the population in those groups. (To be fair, roughly half of those groups are usually left of DU, with the rest falling on the apolitical/too busy raising the kids to give a shit area of the spectrum.