Who is trying to take over our government and why?

[Skidmore]

See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x596220#596909

Whos is using * to try to destroy our nation? I know neocons are in this equation. But who is trying to destroy our nation? What entity? Who are we fighting here? How can we let the people know that the war is really being fought against us within our own borders? I feel like we are just stamping out grass fires while the city burns.

[BattyDem]

1. I'm not sure, but ...

it seems like all roads always lead back to The Carlyle Group. Wasn't there a post last week about them being connected to Dubai Ports World somehow? I vaguely recall reading it, but I don't think I bookmarked it. :-(

[Lerkfish]

5. I'm beginning to think its even more deeply enmeshed than that.

Behind Bushco is Neocons. Behind Neocons is Halliburton and Carlysle group. Behind them is ????

there is another agenda, because a corporation will not willingly destroy itself. What is going on now is the eve of destruction of an entire species. Who would want that?

[Cleita]

7. Maybe if you factor in the religious fundamentalists it might

make more sense. Since they believe that the End Times are coming very soon, they don't see any reason to save anything.

[Warpy]

2. A very small cabal of very rich men

is the only answer I can come up with, men who think their money makes them far cleverer than the rest of us and who have always resented any power residing with the people.

They've had lots of help, from good people going to wingnut churches to men who misunderstand geopolitics to men who misunderstand economics (and are easily led) to middle class people who want a break on their taxes so they can afford to retire to foreign nations who are only too willing to help our decay along.

We created a great country when we rejected the innate superiority of the overclass. It will take a great deal of work to get that back.

[salin]

6. Round two of the Robber Barons

I would agree - a small group of the very rich backed by financiers.

[katty]

20. yeah, I'll go with this answer

[EVDebs]

3. IMHO the Knights of Malta have done a bangup job so far

they control the CIA's leadership since day one, they have a seat at the UN, they favor the 'aristocrats' and use a Jesuit-style fifth column insurgency model to destroy their enemies...

Their Will Be Done
www.motherjones.com/news/ feature/1983/07/willbedone.html

Without doubt a most insidious bunch. Just ask the Freemasons, whose predecessor, the Knights Templar, were destroyed in similar fashion; then came the Protestants and their elimination via St Bartholomew's Day massacres etc forced more of an underground movement ... the Knights Templar became the Freemasons, who were infiltrated by Knights Hospitalers now called Knights of Malta and voila, you get the 4th-32nd degrees of Scottish Rite voodoo which destroys from within the original intent of the Masonic movement.

Our country was founded by Freemasons without that Scottish Rite stuff; after the occult infusions of those degrees, the movement swerved away from revolution and freedom into 'aristocratic' occult diversions.

Prove me wrong. Also, investigate The Peasant's Revolt theory of John J. Robinson, as mentioned in Born In Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry.

Furthermore, read this
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=215343

[Democrats_win]

4. Didn't you see it happening as 2000 approached? Money men.

They were mad that Clinton was paying off the national debt.

Government in general is their greatest customer and without the Greatest of great customers they were in trouble. Now the financial industry is the greatest lobbyist of our government. I think Carlyle is mostly a financial investment firm that specializes in certain idustries.

Even with 19% interest rates on credit cards (when the main rate is below 5%!!!) they wanted the safe government debt.

Wouldn't it be ironic if America defaulted and told the money men to go to ****?

[acmejack]

11. No, Clinton bought admittance through WTO, GATT & NAFTA

Global Economy the oligarchs will rule, Thom Hartmann had a superb discussion of this in his second hour today catch it at Whiterose.org. benburch's place.

[leftofthedial]

8. corporations; profit for shareholders

[peacetalksforall]

9. I refer to them as the barons. No matter what their faith is - they are

the faceless to us. They don't appear on Tweaty's show or MRP. They aren't published in Forbes, but their agenda is at the root of everything on the corporate networks and the WSJ type magazines and papers.

Behind George, is Dick, behind Dick are armies. Those directing the armies are the bankers and industrialists who've been behind it all for a century plus.

They found that war is extremely profitable.
They find that the masses must be contained.

It was easy to do in the days of radio and newspapers and unbridled patriotism.

We bought the patriotism, we were lied to as children, we lie to our children, our children lie to their children - about every vote counting and our democracy.

Any person who is capable of reading between the lines can see that the poor, sick, dependent, and the dissenters must be contained or eliminated.

They believe they own the earth and ordinary people can/must be used to attain and sustain what they want.

They have been moving slowly and steadily for decades, now they have accelerated the pace.

Do we accept their reality or do we believe that the earth and air under and over each grouping of people is theirs.

How much do we want to pay them to live.

[peacetalksforall]

10. Their other agenda is to bring the U.S. down to a third world economy.

[meganmonkey]

12. PNAC and Big Business

And we are fighting ourselves, because no one in power gives half a shit. And that includes about 95% of Democrats in federal office, IMO.

on edit: I want to clarify that by "big business" I mean REEEEAAALLLYYY big business - primarily foreign and multinational. This goes waaay beyond US political parties and their interests. It is much bigger than us.

[Individualist]

15. Exactly

And PNAC isn't just trying to take over, they have taken over.

[sheelz]

13. FYI

JFK signed those EOs but * will use all tools he's got and then some.

[htuttle]

14. The Connecticut Mafia

New England Gangstas.

[newportdadde]

16. I use to think it was random meetings of individual goals but not now.

I had thought it was a random meeting. The super rich in general have X mentality. X mentality leads to Y goals and Z outcomes. Due to their high worth and power they would naturally work against each other but their combined individual games create one large game rich vs other classes etc.

Now I believe its actually much different then that. We all have circles of friends or even strangers such as other members of this board we find commonalities with. It would make sense to me that a group of super rich would maintain a circle of relationships, intertwining deals etc. Through this I'm sure you could work up some type of plan for how you wanted things to go. Real estate, stock manipulation etc you could pull and move to a certain degree and drive toward outcomes you wanted.

They live in a world we cannot imagine stay in those hotel rooms that for one night is equal to some peoples yearly salary. They make what most of us, Democrats and freeper alike consider 'rich' seem like a pauper.

Why would they do it? For more power.

[Individualist]

17. Who: PNAC

Why: Power and money.

[BuyingThyme]

18. Christian and Jewish extremists.

[Joe Fields]

19. Cast your eyes toward our lcurrent leadership....

and the military industrial complex. It isn't hard to connect the dots, if you've been paying attention.

[Disturbed]

21. Who are the multinationals?

Who are the multinationals?

A multinational (or 'transnational') corporation is a company which operates in more than one country, as opposed to a purely domestic business which has no operations abroad. There are now 63,000 multinational corporations in the world, and between them they are responsible for two thirds of global trade and 80% of investment. They are the economic force behind globalisation.

Many of the world's multinationals have developed into giant enterprises spanning the globe. The largest have annual sales greater than the entire economic output of many medium sized countries. On this calculation General Motors is bigger than Norway, Ford is bigger than South Africa and Shell is over twice as big as Nigeria.

Of the largest 100 economic actors in the world today, 51 are corporations and 49 are countries. Multinationals share many interests, and pool their considerable power to lobby governments for policies which favour them. Bodies such as the International Chamber of Commerce, the European Roundtable of Industrialists and the Transatlantic Business Dialogue bring together the leaders of the world?s most powerful multinationals to influence global policies on trade and investment. Western governments have responded by giving multinationals an ever greater role in formulating international policy. It is now acknowledged that many of the liberalisation policies introduced by the world's governments over the past decade have come as a direct result of lobbying work by these groups.

http://pilger.carlton.com/globalisation/multinationals#

[McKenzie]

22. "Behind the ostensible government...

sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people."

Theodore Roosevelt

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Written by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802).

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Woodrow Wilson

"There are powers at work in this country about which we have no knowledge"

HRH Queen Elizabeth II

The world is full of febrile conspiracy theories that savvy people ignore. However, the above quotes span a considerable period and they all hint at the existence of "men behind the curtain" whose main role is to garner power to themselves through financial manipulation. (The quotes by Roosevelt and HRH do not mention financial elites but they do illustrate the point about the existence of a power elite) They are unwittingly aided and abetted by lesser, but no less formidable, power elites whose aims further those of the super elite. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that the different tiers of power elites operate in parallel but not necessarily in collusion.

These people do exist I believe but we will probably never know their real identities. Their malign influence is probably behind much of the ills that have befallen the world for well over a century. What we are witnessing today is probably the closest we will ever get to glimpsing their presence in the present time rather than looking back in time and realising that it was them benefitted from conflict.

I could have gone on to talk about the Federal Reserve but you all probably know the scam they set up.

"Until you change the way money works you change nothing".

Michael C Ruppert.