The DLC and RW Media approved means of winning in 2008

[Savannah Progressive]

Since we have clearly shown that our elected officials have essentially given up on the Liberal or Progressive ideology of our party, and have embraced the Right Wing's racism, hate mongering, and exclusions as party platform ideals. I will not tell you how to finish sacrificing ideals on the alter of "electability" for 2008.

First, we have to push hard this year, running our candidates on a ban all abortions platform, after all the Democrats in South Dakota sponsored that bill, so the rest of us have got to see which way the wind is blowing, and get on board. I know, it goes absolutely against our grain to restrict anyones right to choose, but it's important to win elections as Repugnik Lite instead of Democrats, so we have to do what we have to do.

Second, We have to propose sweeping national legislation to allow all citizens, without any background checks, to carry concealed, any firearm they may wish. Additionally we should propose legislation that we will called pre-emptive justice. If you think the person you see is likely to commit a crime, you may shoot them to pre-empt the crime before it happens. We can call it the "take the high ground" instead of "stand your ground".

Thirdly, We should consider our candidates for 2008 as to whom the Repugniks and Right Wing Wackos will like. Of course, we know there is only one Democrat who will engender true support from the Right Wing Wackos, thus defeating any Repugnik challenger, and that is Zell Miller. Miller who made headlines as the only Democrat to speak at the Repugnik Convention in 2004 should be our candidate in 2008, because that is the kind of lunatic that the Repugniks are going to run, and we have to match them, we can't allow a Lunatic Gap to erode our electoral gains.

Lieberman may be too liberal for Miller to consider as a running mate, so we have to start now, getting David Duke to change his party affiliation to Democrat, so we can insure we get all the Racist Vote.

I know, all of this sounds really stupid, and you wonder if I have lost my mind, guess what, I ask the same thing of many here. Have you all lost your minds? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x595025 is an example, where we toss out our idealism, and throw the truth onto the bonfire of political correctness. We look at 2004, and learn not one thing, instead choosing to mis read all the lessons, and ignore the truth, to be seen. We allowed the Press to dictate our candidate in Kerry, instead of the popular candidate Dean based upon the myth of "elect ability". I never hear the Repugnik candidate's comparative merits discussed under that standard, so why do I hear nothing else when we discuss a Democratic Candidate?

We keep moving to the right, and the votes on many key issues, including Alito and Roberts clearly demonstrate that. We had 20 Democratic Senators who voted to screw the individual under Bankruptcy Reform, which was a Protect Capital One plan if there ever was one. We abandoned the people, and wonder why they ignore us and don't turn out on election day? Gee go figure. http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm

Now our plan is to try and out fundie the Repugniks, and become what we detest, because the alter of Political Power demands a sacrifice, and our ideals, our passions, our beliefs are to be the first, or next, sacrifice.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?vote_id=3480 25 people stood up and said no to reforming Bankruptcy, only 25 who thought that the individual shouldn't have a burden placed upon him that businesses do not have to bear. 20 Senators our OUR SIDE abandoned the people, and wonder why the Democratic Party has no depth to it's passions. We know we can't rely upon our elected officials to eschew the Repug and Big Business elite in favor of the little guy. Mr. Smith isn't in Washington, and isn't going to be let in, not by the "opposition party" if they have anything to say about it.

If think I am being sarcastic, in a way, I am. While we aren't quite to the point where we think Zell Miller represents us. We are to the point where we think it's perfectly acceptable to sell the long held, ideals and beliefs, out in favor of electability and expediency.

[MrBenchley]

1. Wow, what a silly bunch of hooey.....

"Since we have clearly shown"
Guess I missed it. Try trotting it out again.

"Second, We have to propose sweeping national legislation to allow all citizens, without any background checks, to carry concealed, any firearm they may wish."
Yeah, because what says "progressive" better than armed thugs in the street?

[Nebraska_Liberal]

2. I believe..

that is called sarcasm. If you can't tell that you are lost.

I agree with the original post. If we abandon our core beliefs to out Republican the Republicans, what are we? Not an opposition party, but a bunch of enablers.

[MrBenchley]

4. Doesn't sound like sarcasm....

Doesn't sound like much of anything except ludicrous bombast.

"If we abandon our core beliefs"
Who done that?

[Dhalgren]

7. What do you have against Zell?

[MrBenchley]

17. No soap, radio.

[iconoclastNYC]

30. Attack....attack.....attack.

Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching!

[MrBenchley]

33. Yadda yadda yadda....

Another day, another round of mindless and tedious DLC bashing....

[Warpy]

16. Party conservatives are the problem now, have always been the

problem and will always be the problem. They're wrongheaded and they've lost us all three branches of government by moving to the right, by taking working class issues completely off the table, by becoming corporatist, by embracing unrestricted trade for corporations, and by waving goodbye as good jobs disappear overseas forever. They are too blinded by their own sense of importance to the world to notice exactly what they have done to the party, to the country, and to the American people.

Pity them. Just throw them out of power.

[MrBenchley]

18. You mean like John Murtha?

He's about as conservative as it gets.

[iconoclastNYC]

31. Don't forget blinded by the money.

Most people who advocate the corporate agenda are on the corporate gravy train and therefore have enough money to not be affected by conservative policies.

[mattclearing]

3. Agreed 100%.

That "How to win" post was crap. Based on false premises and loaded with misguided horseshit.

[still_one]

5. The reason we have been losing

is because we have NOT distinguished ourselves from the repukes

Where are the liberal progressive ideas? We should stand proud for them, and the legacy of FDR, a woman's right to choose, and civil rights

[mattclearing]

8. They are in every other westernized nation.

And they all revolve around "being willing to pay for a government that provides services people value."

This political establishment is hooked on "cutting taxes" but not programs or military spending.

Until there is a balanced budget amendment, people will not seriously address the dysfunctionality of our current situation.

Once we balance the budget, we can decide what's more important.

[BootinUp]

10. That is just nonsense

and I am tired of reading that meme and not saying I disagree with it. So I said it.

[still_one]

11. really, when murtha came out against Iraq

and said we should immediately withdraw, hillary and kerry played with nuances

for the past 6 years most of the democrats in congress rubber-stamped everything that came from this administration, including the medicare prescription drug disaster

Yes, there are notable exceptions, but most stand on the fence

[BootinUp]

13. Can you show any exit poll data

or even just tell me you have seen some that supports your main point that we lose because we don't distuinguish ourselves on those issues? Its a bullshit meme.

[still_one]

19. you can say bullshit all you want

but if we continue the same path we will reap the same rewards, just watch

[BootinUp]

22. Oh, well thats true.

Too bad we cannot agree on what we are doing wrong. I suggest you analyze exit polls for the answer.

[still_one]

27. peace, and lets win in 2006

[BootinUp]

28. back at you.

:toast:

[blm]

14. Baloney - Kerry submitted a detailed Iraq withdrawal plan a month before

Murtha came out against the war. Kerry was finaly booked to talk about his plan the day that Murtha spoke out and then the press jumped in to define Murtha's plan as cut and run and Kerry was put in the position to defend Murtha from the swiftboating.

It's ABSURD to equate Hillary's nonstance with Kerry's detailed Iraq withdrawal plan and his staunch defense of Murtha on the senate floor even while trying to promote his own withdrawal plan.

[still_one]

20. that may be, but when Kerry was interviewed

immediately after murtha came out on the morning talk shows, his first take was that he disagreed with murthas withdrawal plan

maybe we can blame all our ills on the media, and not the inconsistent message that comes out

[blm]

23. Get real - Kerry disagreed with Murtha's PLAN because he had his OWN PLAN

that he submitted a month EARLIER. He didn't disagree with withdrawal, just HOW to accomplish withdrawal.

You think Kerry was going t work out a plan for two months talking to commanders on the ground in Iraq and Iraqi Parliament members to add their views, and then when he finally gets airtime to talk about it, all the media wants to bring up ONLY Murtha's plan that at that time was only a vague reference to redeploying around Iraq possibly in 6months, while Kerry's plan brought more soliers HOME in a 1yr timeframe.

Gary Hart and Tom Hayden supported Kerry's plan but you didn't see corporate media giving them airtime.

[still_one]

26. then Kerry should have come out sooner

he had 3 years to realize the mistake we were in

now we are in the middle of a civil war, which will continue as long as we are there. Eventually, Iraq will be a Shitte theocracy aligned with Iran

Anyone who knows the history of the middle-east should have seen this coming

[blm]

6. Pretty bad analysis - the press worked to KILL OFF Kerry's campaign by

claiming it to be dead in the water for months. They went overboard covering Dean's campaign and over-reported his support on the ground in Iowa while under-reporting Kerry's strength on the ground.

Think about it without your bias - Kerry had to put up his house to finance his campaign because the corporate media worked to dry up his campaign donations by declaring his campaign dead. Then the media went after Edwards and Clark and when they thought they killed off their campaigns, then they went after Dean to weaken him in the last week. That way they would get all of the top tier - Dean's poor performance at the Iowa debate didn't help him, either.

I'm surprised you didn't notice the media machinations back then - they avoided having to answer for their over-reporting of Dean's campaign while under-reporting Kerry's support, so they hyped up the Dean scream for the next 2 weeks to make it seem as if Dean had only himself to blame, when THEY were the ones guilty of manipulating the news coverage of all the camps throughout that entire time.

BTW - Kerry had the most progressive lifetime voting record of ALL the Dem candidates, and also distinguished himself as being the senator who investigated and exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history. Your charge against him was baseless.

[still_one]

12. true, but Kerry did not help himself either with a clear message

especially when asked during the campaign if he would vote the same way for the IWR knowing what he knows now

Too much nuance

[Merlot]

15. Interesting analysis of the 2004 election

I haven't heard it explained quite like that but think you make some valid points.

And agreed about Kerry being most progressive. I believe he was more progressive than Dean.

[still_one]

21. but his message wasn't clear

if it was we would NOT have bush now

[blm]

24. His message WAS clear - he was everything Bush wasn't - You seem

to have different standards. Murtha's plan wasn't cut and run, but corporate media defined it as cut and run. Yet, Murtha clearly said redeploy AROUND Iraq, not cut and run.

You seem to think corporate media had nothing to do with editting Kerry's campaign issues out of the daily coverage, yet it's obvious the corporate media even took Murtha's easily understood withdrawal plan and redefined it as cut and run. And that was just ONE ISSUE for Murtha.

[still_one]

25. we better win in 2006 or it won't matter whether you or I disagree

on the details

[politicasista]

32. Eating our own and letting Bush off the hook is sure fun

Don't you think?:rofl: :sarcasm: :boring:

[Savannah Progressive]

34. I will agree, and disagree

The press has been picking our candidates for some time, electability came about before the Iowa "Scream" and as soon as our candidate is picked, they are picked apart by the Right Wing Funded media.

The Electability issue was widely reported and discussed as far back as December 2003, and everyone of the talking heads on the Sunday shows was quick to point out how Howard Dean, who set the tone for the Iraq Discussion, was "unelectable".

A Year before the General Election months before the first Primary, the Press had already decided that Dean was unelectable. The same polling companies that are widely touted and heralded here when Bush is below 40% were showing Dean in a comfortable lead. prior to the "Unelectable" declaration.

Kerry jumped to Murtha's defense because he saw what happens first hand when you ignore the swiftboating of your service. That was an incredibly stupid move on the Kerry Team's part, not immediately responding, and demonstrating the falsehoods clearly, instead letting the lies gain steam, and momentum.

I am disgusted to see so many Democrats vote for horrible legislation, and in the example used above, Bankruptcy Reform, being one. Look at any issue you want, from the Court to Defense, from Civil Rights to treatment of Prisoners, we have abandoned the position of morality, civility, and community, and voted WITH the Repugniks.

No Democrat should have ever voted for Bankruptcy Reform. NO Democrats should have said "Yea" to the Patriot Act, nor any number of Bad Legislation issues that have come about. About the only thing we are STILL WINNING on is ANWR, and that is a matter of time before we lose out on it too. We passed Alito and Roberts to the Court, knowing that they would take a womans right to choose away. The defenders of the Washington or Beltway Dems said "They would never do that, they need the campaign issue" and those of us who yelled that this day would come, were considered hysterical. Well this day has come, as we said it would, and we shudder to think what tomorrow will bring, more Civil Liberties lost is a guaranteed result.

Consider this, not one elected Democrat has called on the NSA Domestic Spying program to be shut down, NOT ONE. I can't find one who demanded it be shut down, and admittedly I may be ignorant of an instance, but I haven't found it yet. Not one elected Democrat has demanded, proposed legislation, or done anything to shut it down, instead they want to enable EVEN MORE DOMESTIC SPYING. :wtf:

Most of the Beltway Dems are calling on legislation to Make it legal. Sorry, if Bush is wrong for doing it, why would we want to find a way to enable more of it? That is frankly, stupid. It is however a good example of what is so infuriating about our current situation, we are in the Minority, and apparently determined to try and get the Repugniks to LIKE us by acting more like them. If that is our plan, then my contention of our perfect candidate is correct.

We have to Draft, and Nominate Zell Miller immediately. Frankly, he is the one Democrat I know who can out Conservative the Conservatives. Who would the Repugniks get to run against him? Could they find an experienced Political candidate who is MORE FundaMENTAL than Zell Miller? Short of David Duke, I don't think so.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Yep. The "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" approach.

[iconoclastNYC]

29. Sad but true.

DLC are surrender monkey democrats -- don't fight for our values, just redefine them.......and in the process make yourself look weak and useless.

Thankfully the DLC is becoming a pariah.