There is a really big problem with absolutes,

[Joe for Clark]

I understand - absolutes do not exist.

We, as a country, destabilized a part of the world we NEED. Iran is a problem - I always thought the Bush governmet just couldn't spell. But it is not really our problem.

It sure is now -

You mark my words - when the summer comes, all hell breaks lose - just a result of the temprature.

The fact is I do want revenge for 911- it is not vindictive, just practical. Some lunatics did our people in New York - I want them dead - and I can see the diference between the bush approach and the realistic approach. He missed the mark so badly. He fought the wrong enemy - and pathetically.

We were attacked and they killed our people. It is a fact. We, as a country, have an interest in
doing the right thing. And before our other cities pay for the idiots mistakes.

He has to go, and he will, in about eight months. I can wait.

Joe

[serryjw]

1. You're not asking the right question

WHO killed our people on 9-11?

[Joe for Clark]

3. It is the question.

To those that did - it was an act of war. They have no more right than any soldier of any cause at any time.

Maybe they don't wear uniforms - so what.

Anyone that bore the title "Al Queda" - I suggest that was a uniform of sorts.

I do NOT have a problem with Iraqis, but I do have a problem with the people that killed in NYC, however.

You have to expect, being a soldier for a cause, you really might get shot - and I think the US lost its focus. The one thing about Bush, he so confused our priorities as to make them useless - I will never forgive him that indescretion.

There is no trial for those people, no more than any other soldier at any other period of time.

Some lunatics did kill our people in NYC - and if we don't deal with that, as a society, it will happen again. Bush can go to hell, he is a pimple on our history. We have to deal with the reality, though.

Joe

[catnhatnh]

2. Horse hockey and in tweve ways...

Neither Iraq nor Iran attacked us...If ANY middle eastern country WAS complicit in 9/11 it was Saudi Arabia from which most highjackers came....but those are Bush's hand holding, kissing cousins..We will "know the facts" after a serious inquiry into the events of 9/11...

[Mountainman]

4. The only absolute I can believe in is that there are no absolutes.

Nine individuals caused 9/11 right? There may have been many others that provided support but I think it should have been a FBI, police action kind of thing not a call for war on some country.

What have the wars gotten us? Are we safer? Can another 9/11 happen tomorrow? Sure it can. We have spent the live of over 2000 of our people and 100's of thousands of Iraqis not to avenge 9/11 but to promote the causes of PNAC.

I believe that 9/11 was partly the actions of PNAC. They say in their paper that it will take another Pearl Harbor to get people to agree with them.

I feel that you have been used by PNAC. You have responded just as they would have wanted and so have most of the other people in this country.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Maybe part of getting revenge is getting a Congress and a President

with some smarts and not so much the ready trigger finger.

Revenge is particularily sweet when done smartly. Thus far, we've been about as stoopid as it comes....and we're getting dumber on our way to Iran.

WWIII won't be televised....so you won't get to watch the "practical" payback you so clamor!

[Joe for Clark]

7. Hi Frenchie,

We don't have til 2008.

I don't care about revenge - I care about what is going to happen to my kids, our kids, this decade.

Whatever is going to happen with our country is going to be decided this year, one way or the other.

We had an interest in settling the events in NYC and we didn't. ANd I think our failure to deal with it will come back in spades. General CLark understood that too, you know. And he was right.

Frenchie, those assholes killing our kids, those weapons are NOT Iraqi - and that is not new and not an accident. Those tempratures go up in a few months, and those will be our kids over there dieing. They are good kids, I knew a lot of them, Frenchie - some that will never come home.

Not revenge, just practical - we better deal with our problems, or they will come back and bite us in the ass.

Joe

[FrenchieCat]

8. Hel-lo! I said CONGRESS and Presidency....

which stands for 2006 AND 2008!

That's how fast it's gonna be, and I doubt it will be any faster!

:hi:

[Joe for Clark]

12. Oh, Frenchie -

I understand.

It is going to be 2006 though. Later than that, will be too late.

Hope all is well with you Frenchie,


Joe

[readmoreoften]

6. We don't really have evidence of everyone who was involved in 9-11.

According to most documentaries I've seen, Al Qaida are nothing but a loose band of vigilantes. Other than Osama Bin Laden-- whose immediate family is friends with Bush's immediate family-- there are a handful of radicals. We are bombing entire nations that have nothing to do with 9-11. For all I know the PNAC were involved. In fact, plenty of circumstantial evidence (which IS used in courts all the time, by the way) shines a sour light on this radical faction of our own government.

I know one thing, though. Iran and Iraq don't seem to be involved.

[Joe for Clark]

9. Good reasons to believe Iraq, under Sadam, was our ally,

I don't know what documentaries you saw - I listented to my kid. I know, for a fact, when all hell was breaking lose up north CNN was reporting "All quiet on the western front". Load of shit, then and now. PNAC were traitors and are today - to everything I ever believed in.


I don't know how to say this more honestly - I really do want the people that did NYC dealt with, I really, really do. And I know - they are skipping out on this. It is wrong. It is politics ahead of country.

THe jury is out for me on Iran, not on al queda, though. As soldiers wear uniforms, they wore titles - and as our fathers dealt with them on battlefields, so should we. They killed our own in NYC, even if our President fails to get it, we better not. I have no fight with Iraqis - I have a real fight those those people, though.

Just because Bush is an idiot, it does not doom us all to be idiots. There is a right and a wrong in life - and Bush will be judged by God in any event.

Joe

[RagingInMiami]

10. You want revenge for 9/11?

You might have to go through a few secret service men first.

[Joe for Clark]

11. Why??

Joe

[RagingInMiami]

13. Turn up the volume on your computer

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change

[Joe for Clark]

14. I see -

Firstly, you have no idea what you are talking about,
Secondly, you have no idea that those pawns being played over really are just kids,
and thirdly, something really bad is coming down, in army speak.

I appreciate the attempt at humor, I do - let me tell you, there is no humor on Friday, cause that is the day the army updates the casualty reports. And many of us don't know til then.

There are about a hundred thousand parents out there who could respond, and I see you are not one of them, so please don't try.

And I have been around the military long enough to know when when something is going down.

And something is going down right now. Humor just doesn't cut it here.

Joe

[RagingInMiami]

15. I wasn't trying to be funny.

And I am very much aware that those "pawns", our soldiers, are just kids.

What do you mean about something bad is coming down, in army speak?

[Joe for Clark]

16. I didn't mean to imply you were - you were hitting nerves,

Offensive units are being slotted in defensive positions - it is REALLY happening.

Those rotations going back in June and July - not designed to defend anything, designed to attack something. I do not think it is precautionary at this point - 2nd division, strykers are going back in force, and those guys are attackers. Something is coming to a head, and I think those kids are going to get the shit kicked out because of this.

Maybe I am a little sensitive because my kid is going back again in July - objectively - no, this is coming to a head here - all hell is likely to break lose this summer, and many of us are scared to death about what is coming to our kids.

The army really is adept at lieing - they are good at it. And I think they are lieing their ass off here. I kind of wondered what Bush really knew or was capable of knowing, given my inherent distrust of the army as an organization. DO they lie to him and then tell him what to say after the fact?? I wonder if what Eisenhower said was literally true.

This is going to be a bloody summer, I really think so.

Joe

[RagingInMiami]

17. Attack Iran?

Or Syria?

[Joe for Clark]

18. An attack would go east, I think.

Not Syria. They'll be east of the river. That is nothing Iran does not know, by the way.

CNN sure seems clueless though.

Yes, they are preparing for an attack to the east OR to defend an attack from the east -

In those million dollar SUV wannabees, you know.

Joe

[RagingInMiami]

20. CNN only reports what they are told to report by military spokespeople

I still recommend viewing that movie.

[Joe for Clark]

21. The truth is I never wanted to believe that -

But it is true.

Learned the hard way,

Where the hell is Ted Turner when you need him????

Best to you "Raging" -

Joe

[Katherine Brengle]

19. Umm...

"The fact is I do want revenge for 911- it is not vindictive, just practical. Some lunatics did our people in New York - I want them dead - "

Well, to be practical, 19 of them are already dead. It is the fault of this administration that the rest have not been brought to justice as well, but we also need to accept our nation's part in causing the rise of these terrorist organizations in the first place.

They aren't right, but neither are we.

And revenge is a counter-productive concept--we have ended up killing many innocents in our national quest for "revenge" while those who are actually guilty have overwhelmingly managed to escape justice.

[Joe for Clark]

22. Revenge is the product of justice.

I think if we could dispense with those people, they won't be attacking LA or any other city. That is important.

Maybe you are right. However, in my weakness, I can't measure american kids lives in the same way I can others- I can't do it. Those deaths in NYC were so much more important to me, it is true.

There was a simple truth Old "W" managed to screw up. Some lunatics killed our people in NYC. It really happened. ANd if we don't deal with that, it will happen again.

If this is a war, well, we didn't start it. We better finish it, though. Bush or no Bush.

Justice is an extraction of revenge - connected concepts.

Joe