The real solution to the child support dilemma for men

[geniph]

For those men who don't wish to have a vasectomy yet, but do not wish to be trapped into unwanted parenthood and forced to pay child support for 18 years....
shouldn't you guys be the ones agitating for a real method of male birth control? Something akin to Depo-Provera for men, a once-every-three-months shot. I know plenty of guys who'd remember to go in for their shots - yeah, there are plenty that wouldn't. As a woman, I wouldn't have depended on that; I'd have still used my own method. But shouldn't BOTH partners be taking the responsibility for each controlling their OWN fertility?

C'mon, you guys, start agitating for this. You can't tell me a combination Viagra/Depo pill wouldn't be the #1 selling prescription drug in the world within a month. ;-)

[Caoimhe]

1. Amen!

However, I am an advocate for personal responsibility. I would never trust a man who said "It's okay baby, I'm on the (male) pill" just as no man should trust the same being said by a female. In the end we are all responsible for where we put our body fluids.

*on edit* I have problems getting my DH to take his vitamins... what to do what to do?

[mongo]

10. That's a sad statement

because relationships are supposed to be based on trust. Doesn't mean you won't get burned sometimes.

[pitohui]

17. mongo you're a smart man think abt what you just said

i do not want to have to develop trust before i get laid, trust for me is something that comes after years, getting laid is something that can happen in well minutes or hours or days, there is such a thing as passion and it sure as hell ain't based on trust, it can be an instinctive chemical thing

relationships and having sex are not the same thing

do i have to have a relationship w. every guy i screw, i think not, esp. when i'm a teen and i'm just exploring my sexuality and not ready to get hung up on one guy

jeez, who wants to have a talk abt some dude's past, which he is prob. lying abt anyway, the first time you get it on? esp. if you are just using the guy for a cheap thrill, tee hee

you can have great sex and there not be one little bit of trust involved

that's why i like the condom backed up by the pill backed up by legal safe abortion

[mongo]

18. I was more addressing the situation

where two people ARE in a relationship and the understanding is that birth control is being used, but one party is secretly trying to conceive.

Kept that gender neutral -- It can be either party.

Men -- "don't worry honey, I'll pull out", poking holes in condoms, etc.

Women -- saying they are on BC when they are not, poking holes in condoms, etc.

relationships and having sex are not the same thing

do i have to have a relationship w. every guy i screw, i think not, esp. when i'm a teen and i'm just exploring my sexuality and not ready to get hung up on one guy

Hell no, you don't need my permission, and you have my utmost blessing - go for it! Now is the time to discover what you want and need, to learn about new relationship energy, to learn to distinguish between sexual desire and love.

And I'll qualify that last statement. If by teen you mean 18-19, then yeah, you will probably be in much better shape to form a good, long lasting relationship in the future by being free with your sexuality today. If by teen you mean less than 18, then my reservations increase as your age decreases. I certainly wouldn't encourage a 13yo to explore their sexuality. And if you were 17? I don't know. Our age of consent is certainly an arbitrary number.

you can have great sex and there not be one little bit of trust involved

Been there, done that -- have pictures (just kidding)

that's why i like the condom backed up by the pill backed up by legal safe abortion

Which tells me you are one smart young woman!

[LeftyMom]

15. It isn't the man I wouldn't trust

(far from it, I have a damned fine one) however I would never want to trust my future plans to a male pill though. After all, the pill isn't 100% effective at keeping women from releasing only one egg- even if the male pill is much more effective and kills off 99.9% of sperm, that still leaves more than enough to get knocked up many times over.

I <3 my NuvaRing, though.

[geniph]

25. That's why I think both partners should be using birth control

Each person needs to control their own fertility, not depend on someone else to have remembered to take their pill, get their shot, put in their diaphragm, remembered to bring a condom. If each of you is on birth control, then the chances of getting "trapped" by either party drop to almost nil.

[LeftyMom]

30. I agree.

Especially in cases where the birth control can't be verified (for example, if a man does not know that the woman is taking the pill properly, or when a woman has not verified that a man has followed up with his sperm assay after a vasectomy and is indeed infertile.) Those who choose to abdicate their responsibility for birth control within a sexual relationship are of course exercising their choice- which is thier right- but they need to take responsibility for that risk and it's potential consequences.

[geniph]

34. Speaking of post-vasectomy sperm assays...

...I should point out that I'm a post-vasectomy baby. I was born 10 months after my father had a vasectomy. They didn't explain the waiting period to him very well. :D

[The Straight Story]

2. I just look at ann coulter

and I can't even get my happy guy out to worry about getting someone pregnant :)

[WindRavenX]

3. well, there are current clinical trials for the male "pill"

It could be on the market soon.

I wonder how popular it will be.

[geniph]

26. I know guys - mostly young guys - who'd use it

I'm thinking of the guys like my stepsons, both of whom have regular girlfriends. One is trustworthy to take her birth control pills, the other...well, let's just say there ARE cases where there's people who've been known to sabotage birth control (or "forget" it) to try to keep a failing relationship. I, personally, would be MUCH happier if I knew my stepsons were on birth control too.

[Ian David]

4. How about a "permanent condom" barrier

It would remain afixed to the penis for a month at a time.

Urine and other "discharge" would collect in a bag on your thigh which could be drained into a toilet, or removed for disposal.

[mongo]

19. Isn't that what Dick Cheney uses?

I've seen some pictures of mighty strange protrusions down there.

[mongo]

5. LOL!

a combo viagra/depo pill would create lines around the block at every pharmacy.

I'd take two -- just in case!

Yes, both partners have the responsibility for controling their own fertility. There are some exceptions to that rule -- not exactly the responsibility part, more culpibility, but they are a small portion of the big picture.

[dsc]

6. I would be amazed if men didn't buy this

Since I am more interested in the barier to disease than preventing pregnancy I may be the wrong person to ask but I would buy this in a heart beat if I were interested in preventing pregnancy.

[flvegan]

7. Actually, no.

Here's the rub..."men who don't wish to have a vasectomy" need to take alternate precautions. If you don't WISH to have permanent change, then you need to tend to your wants and be responsible. Notwithstanding, I'm sure such a pill would sell in the brazillions, however, the mindset needs to be changed.

[mondo joe]

8. I think all you heterosexuals deserve each other, men AND women.

"It's your fault"

"No, it's your fault"

"My choice"

"What about my choice"

Face it kids, you belong together.

[northofdenali]

11. mondo joe, you are bad, bad, bad.

:spank::spank::rofl::spank::spank: And you are right, right, right. :beer::popcorn::beer:

BTW, you have a restaurant and burger named after you in the sprawling metropolis (pop. 550) of Nenana, Alaska, the one and only Mondorosa!! It's at 309 mile on the Parks Highway, about 4 miles east of Nenana. Good burgers. Weird clientele.

[The Magistrate]

9. A Pleasure To See You About The Place Again, Ma'am!

[geniph]

27. And The Same to You, Sir!

Most happy to see you, too, making sense as usual!

:hi:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

12. I, as a male, don't have a problem with this.

In this day and age, I am grateful that I got to live through the "sexual revelution" of the 60's. Today, the risks of STD'd and the additional risks of possible child support keep me faithful. If I was still sexually active, I would think a male pill would at least keep me out of paternity suits. Let's face it, Sex is one of the most powerful incentives on earth. Rich and powerful people have continuously destroyed their lives for it. Child molesters go to jail for it. Politicians ruin their careers for it!

All I can say is take Paxil. after a month or two, you will no longer care. I used to spend most of my waking hours obsessing about sex. Since I started taking Pxil, I could care less. It has given me a certain sense of freedom to use my time to explore art, music, etc. I can't say I don't like it.

On the other hand, I got laid a whole bunch in the 60's and don't have to prove anything to anyone.

[geniph]

28. My husband took Paxil

and believe me, he cared. He was so unhappy about that side effect of Paxil that he decided he'd rather be depressed organically than have impotence as a cause! Besides, he was going to drown me - Paxil makes you sweat a LOT, and he's a big sweaty fella anyway.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

35. you are probably still young and beautiful

My wife is 15 years older than me and no longer young or beautiful. I love her dearly, we are best friends but I could care less about having sex with her. Paxil has been good to me as I no longer care about sex with anyone. I know it sounds weird but, like I said, I had enough sex when I was young and beautiful to be able to ignore it at this stage of my life.

Some guy called the local talk station a few weeks ago. He wanted to talk about Viagra. He said that at this stage of his life, it didn't help his sex life but it kept him from peeing on his shoes.

[Zomby Woof]

13. I knew when I saw the thread title

I would not be disappointed with the wisdom within... or the humor with which you deliver it. :hi:

[Johnyawl]

20. It was another of my great ideas that she stole!

She's a bad girl! :spank: I should know better than to go off on a rant when she's sitting at her computer.

[joshcryer]

14. They're working on it. Market it and I'll be the first in line.

Seriously. I'm clean as far as disease is concerned, and I don't sleep around a lot or anything. But I don't know if I can trust certain girls to keep on the pill.

[Caoimhe]

24. Nor should you

Like an earlier DUer said, it's like playing russian roulette with your future or even your life.

[pitohui]

16. well what's wrong w. the simple condom?

the condom actually offers some protection against disease as well, imperfect as it may be against herpes and HPV, it offers huge huge HUGE protection against HIV

it's cheap, sometimes free, it's easy to use if the guy is actually hard (the psychology of dudes who are not even aroused still wanting to stick it in to prove some point is another issue for another day, i suppose), and it's a visible barrier against all the bad stuff

i'll be honest, even if a dude did say he was on viagra/depo or whatever, i wouldn't believe him, would you, dudes lie to get laid

a condom is something i can actually see

[AlienGirl]

22. While condoms are a must for STD prevention, there are people

who want to be *certain* that, even if the condom breaks or leaks, there will be no chance of a pregnancy. I know someone who was conceived when both a condom and the Pill failed! I say, the more precautions the better.

Tucker

[geniph]

29. I very much dislike condoms, myself

for some folks, sure, that's the way to go. But as to "depending" on a man to have taken his birth control, no, I wouldn't - and once we have real male birth control, neither partner should have to depend on the other to be taking birth control. They can each be responsible for their OWN fertility.

I've had one whole hell of a lot of condoms break. I don't trust the damn things. Maybe it's that damn vagina dentata. ;-)

[OffWithTheirHeads]

36. Condoms are like fucking through a sheet

And, one size does not fit all. I have used them a few times and they broke. I would like to believe that this was caused by size but that analasys may be overly egotistical. Still, I wouldn't depend on them for preventing anything. A better method is necessary.

[Mike Niendorff]

21. Not just men, but women too.

> shouldn't you guys be the ones agitating for a real method of male birth control?

Men and women should BOTH be pushing for this, because it's in all of our interest to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

(The idea that procreation is about one gender against the other is part of the problem, imho.)

It's not about women sticking up for women, or men sticking up for men, but about all of us working together to do what's best for everyone. The more control we all have over our own lives, the better off we'll all be.

</.02>


MDN

[geniph]

31. Well put, Mike, and I quite agree

I just see more women agitating for male birth control, myself, but maybe that's because guys don't talk to me about it. Nearly all the guys I know have either had a vasectomy or are gay! :D

[mmonk]

23. Never make the kids pay.

That being said, women should be required to provide child support if they make more and leave the children with the father. Nobody should be able to walk away from the kids.

[geniph]

32. Women DO have to pay child support

at least here in Washington. The support and parenting plan laws are pretty fair, gender-wise, in this state. They still have a bad habit of giving mothers primary custody by default, but a father who has primary custody most certainly can get child support in this state.

[LeftyMom]

33. Custodial fathers get support orders

however I wouldn't be surprised if they collect at lower rates, since women tend to get primary or shared custody unless there's a real hardship, character issue or addiction and those circumstances often preclude reliable support payments.

In my experience as the child of a custodial father, there's much less willingness within the system to pursue payment from "deadbeat mothers."