Revelation: I don't like New York City.

[StellaBlue]

Yes, that's right.

I went to NYC Saturday, and just got back tonight. Visited a friend from high school, a friend of about 15 years, who has been living up there and working as a designer and living it up for about three years now. I have lived in London. I love San Francisco. I have been to other big cities, and loved them. But New York and I just didn't bond. Am I alone?

Following is an excerpt from my blog.

********************
Monday, March 06, 2006

Live from New York, it's.......

hurting feet and tired eyes
Current mood: thirsty


I am kinda tired. I think you have to have too much stamina here.

Maybe that's because I still haven't quite recuperated fully from day 1, in which I woke up at 3:30, drove to the airport, flew here, met B_____, took a walking tour of the West Village (where I am currently stationed in a weird, silent, dark internet cafe), went back to his place and drank bourbon and rested my feet, went to Chelsea Market, went to the Maritime Hotel, went to dinner, had $10 martinis, went to a hip sushi restaurant/club, went to a hip club we couldn't fit into, went to a wine bar, had $8 glasses of champagne, totally underimpressed B_____'s friends, and finally went to sleep about 2am. What a day, right?

The best part so far has to be B_____ introducing me to everyone as his 'old friend, the Southern Gothic writer'. bwhahahaha. I can play that part, if necessary.

Really, though, I am kind of surprised. From the plane, Manhattan looked like a tiny toy town, or a model train set village. It seems really small, which is weird, right? Overall, I am underwhelmed, I think. Partially because I am really tired and my feet hurt and it's just such an expensive pain in the ass to get anywhere, and then when you get there it's like being in a sardine can with a bunch of people wearing the same hip retro glasses as yourself.

I much prefer San Francisco. So that decision is made, then. That was part of my reason for wanting to come here.

Maybe I am a total weirdo, or maybe somebody slipped something in my Bellini, but it seems a lot of, well... sound and fury, signifying nothing. There's a lot going on, and yet... I am kinda bored. I don't know.

I was going to go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art today, but it's closed, so I am wandering around. Been to Union Square, had lots of coffee, one very strong pint, and a turkey burger, popped in and out of some cute shops. I guess New York just feels more like a normal American city than I was expecting. I thought it would be overhwhelming, inspiring, totally different from anywhere else on earth. But I think my next trip shall be to Santa Fe or Mexico City or Los Angeles or maybe Madrid. I think all those European cities, and London, especially, have ruined me. And it's not the same as when you are 16, all starry-eyed, easily buzzed, and want to get into a fight. You know?

Not that I am not having a GREAT time. I am loving seeing B_____. We had our own private Oscar party last night, made some tropical cocktails, great fun. I've been whistled at several times on the street, despite being a 5-foot-tall dwarf in a long coat and jeans (WTF?). I was at the tills in Marc Jacobs right next to Sophie Dahl, who B_____ held the door for and did not recognize. I had a great martini the other night.

Okay, better run. After he gets off work, we're hitting Chinatown, where I intend to buy a fake Prada purse (probably shouldn't be advertising that fact on the internet, right?! haha) and having a look around. That should be cool. Then tonight, we're going up the Empire State Building, which B_____'s never done, either. That will be excellent, no doubt.

I also bought a GREAT coffee-table sized photo album earlier, which is pink and says in a nice filigreed scrawl on the front: 'My Bitches'. Who wants to be in it?


* * *

Wednesday, March 08, 2006

Back behind the pine curtain...
Current mood: tired

So here I am . It's a lot like Love Field, only not as nice. I still have my same, ambivalent feeling about New York. I certainly never thought I'd say this, but I prefer America.

And I still prefer England to that. Oh, well. Indeed.

All in all, it's been a good trip. Even managed to squeeze in Grand Central Station, Sak's, Rockefeller Center, and St Patrick's in less than an hour yesterday afternoon.

People are now getting off the just-arrived flight from Dallas - wearing flip-flops.

The only really ...............?, the aspect that lived up to my expectations, was the 11pm trip to the top of the Empire State Building. That and walking under the gleaming steel noses of the Chrysler Building's capitalist gargoyles. It's my favorite, for sure.

I admit I did get a sharp little shock of satisfaction out of someone's irritation and confusion at my saying, 'It's all.... smaller... than I expected.' It looked like a toy from the sky, and the island seemed surprisingly small from the pavement. Only from the top of the Empire State Building did it seems real - and appropriately surreal - with the trembling ribbons of light fanning out in all directions, to the horizon.

Brooklyn, in my estimation, equals the worst of urban Britain, only worse still. The decay does not quite have the same affect as that of, say, New Orleans. While it holds some mystery, it doesn't seem to hold my imagination. Thinking about New Orleans, in comparison, it seems like nothing interesting - really interesting - could ever happen here.

I'm sure this is partly a sumptom of the slow death of hope that accompanies what we call 'maturity'.

If this was New York, I have no desire to go to New Jersey. I don't even know that Boston retains its adolescent pull, the old spell (I always wanted desperately to go there at about age 11, obsessed with the Kennedys as I was - go figure!).

I am not sorry to be from the South. And, from here, even Mississippi seems as much home as Texas. You order a coke here, and they don't ask you what kind.

And the celebrated, pulsating streets, while just as loud and busy and diverse as promised, are yet somehow not particularly invigorating, and certainly not as glamorous as I'd expected. They can't compare at all to, say, Edinburgh. I felt here, after the first couple of blocks, that there wasn't really anything to explore. Not like the crooked, ever-winding, hilly little streets of Edinburgh - or San Francisco - with their many hidden broom shops and tea shops and cozy pubs and sudden, breathtaking, views of the blue sea, and of distant, dappled hills. There was magic in it.

The streets smell of greasy pizza and urban waste, and the stairwells of Chinese food. Overall, I am not too sorry to leave them all behind.

***



Then my flight arrived. I am afraid this doesn't quite give the right impression; this was solely my reaction to the city itself. I actually had a great time, and especially enjoyed seeing B_____ and alternating between impulsive daytime wandering and drunken nighttime wandering. It was good. No doubt just what I needed. My favorite moments were the trip to the Empire State Building Observatory, seeing an Yves Klein and Van Gogh's Blue Irises (and I am not speaking here as a person who owns Van Gogh checks or Monet desk calendars), and just sitting back and enjoying some great Indian and Italian and Thai food, talking to interesting people, watching the night pass by.

I just don't want to move there. Which is, really, a shocker. But it's not for me. I am glad I know myself well enough to realize this. I really just like Austin. I admit it. I could see myself moving to San Francisco or Portland or Sante Fe, but not even any of those permanently. So that's another fruit of my mini-break. When I first got dumped back here, in my delirium and rage, I thought seriously about just going to New York - the clichee. I thought maybe, since I had been so many places and didn't really want to be back in America, that New York would be the only place I could go. But, really, it's all in my mind. Like everything.

[Ignacio Upton]

1. Nobody's forcing you to like NYC

I live nearby and enjoy going in, but a lot of the stuff you said has some truth to it. I would like to Sanf Francisco or some West Coast city to get an idea of what's its like out there (I've never been west of the Mississippi and the only foreign country I've ever been to is Canada, which doesn't really count due to its similarities with the U.S.)

[GRLMGC]

2. I'm not too into bashing other people's cities

I'm from a city that gets bashed all the time and it pisses me off. Every place has its charm.

[StellaBlue]

3. I didn't post this to 'bash' - just because I wondered if anyone else

shared my feelings, or was disappointed, or shocked by the feeling of being... underwhelmed.

I figured that, being the type of person I am, that, if ever I went to New York, I would never, ever want to go back to Texas again.

I am just trying to process this. It's weird.

[RagingInMiami]

49. It was just Texas bias

Be honest.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. I have no desire to visit the East Coast...

I think it comes from growing up on the wide open plains.
Too many people there, packed to close together. It's not natural.

Portland is ok, there's room to spread out. Even hanging out downtown makes me a little claustrophobic after a few hours.

I think I'd probably have a reaction close to yours.

[Armstead]

105. Have you ever been to the East Coast?

Just wondering, because it's not all people packed close together.

I can drive an hour or two away and be in wooded places that seem as remote as any in Montana. I can go a few miles in anotehr direction and drive foreer and see nothing but farms nd fields for miles and miles.

Sure some setions of the northeast are crowded and sprawly. But a lot of otehrs are either somewhat rural or very rural.

[ugarte]

5. NYC has gone downhill as it has become gentrified

It has become massively more expensive and less interesting. Paradoxically, I liked it much better in the 70s when it was bankrupt and crime-ridden. You didn't have to have tons of money to live in Manhattan then and it was much less crowded. Now you go anyplace and it's just a bunch of tourists looking at each other, trying to act hip. Bottom line, NYC used to be one of the most real places on earth, i.e. Martin Scorsese's NYC, but it has become one of the most plastic.

I know exactly where you're coming from.

[StellaBlue]

8. yeah

I feel like, really, I would rather move to LA. Because they're essentially the same, only LA has much better weather, nicer surrounding scenery, and better Mexican food.

You know?

But the reason I love San Francisco is because it is SO what I always thought New York would be the epitome of - effortless style, sophistication, glamor. In my experience, San Francisco is MUCH more stylish than NYC. Much more... magical.

[RB TexLa]

10. don't discount the Mexican food till you go to Williamsburg n/t

[ugarte]

28. You may laugh...but try Philadelphia sometime..

It reminds me of what New York used to be.

[dflprincess]

6. I like San Francisco

but I left my heart in New York.

[RB TexLa]

7. You must have really missed out on Brooklyn to think that

There is plenty of urban decay here in Dallas. I can't think of any true urban area that doesn't have some.

I love Brooklyn, I'm can't think of a more diverse place to enjoy life, with culture and actually knowing the names of people who live in your neighborhood.


Also the best place in the city to view the Macy's Independence Day fireworks from, I love Addison Kaboom town but nothing compares.

[FreedomAngel82]

9. I've never been so I can't say

Sorry. Don't feel bad. Some cities don't jive well with others.

[InvisibleTouch]

11. I don't like cities, period.

And NYC to my mind is the queen mother of all cities, exemplifying everything I hate about cities. An occasional layover at the airport, and (once) a wild cab ride from one airport to another, was as close as I'd ever want to get again.

There are a few cities that I've enjoyed visiting (Las Vegas, D.C., and even Chicago), but I'd never deliberately live there.

I will add, however, that even the ugliest city is beautiful at night, if it's all lit up.

[DemInDistress]

12. Hey your not alone...NYC sucks lately...and I live here

its home to the 165.00 dollar parking ticket, other high priced items and way over rated. Give me the smut of Times Square which BTW King Rudy the Tyrant ran out of town and those cops..its a police state for sure. These days where once you got a warning or a summons not buys you a night in JAIL..its gone downhill since 911 and sliding further and further into that Big Brother place, what's that name oceania ...

NYC IS NOT FOR ME AND THIS AFTER 59 YEARS.. SAYS SOMETHING.

[readmoreoften]

54. I'm with you. I live in the Village and it feels empty.

NYU, rampant corporate crap, and Republicans have destroyed the feel of this city. I feel like a live in a great big mall. The only thing to do is eat overpriced food and drink overpriced drinks.

It's not the NY of my childhood. I'm going to leave soon.

[avb7]

13. Well than just stay ......

in that garden spot of the western world they call Texas. Somebody from that back wards thinking, pick-up driving model of society has some nerve knocking a place that they spent about 5 days in. Wow you must have fantastic insight to figure out a place as complicated as NYC so fast. I've lived here all my 55 years and I haven't figured this town out, but you did it in a flash of $10 martinis and $8 champagne. Do me a favor don't brag about being from the south and bash my hometown, you gotta' be from Jersey to do that.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[RB TexLa]

29. Ahhhhh now you had to go and drag Glasgow into it. It's on NOW!

Just kidding O8)


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[StellaBlue]

42. ssssssssssh

don't tell anyone, but I liked Glasgow a hell of a lot better than New York. But still not as much as Edinburgh.

[Name removed]

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[Richard Steele]

26. That kind of flaming attack isn't gonna fly here at DU.

Just a friendly word of advice, you know?

[TankLV]

116. Then your suggestions are misplaced - you should be referring to the OP.

It wasn't that poster that started this "lovely" thread.

[linazelle]

38. Haven't you ever visited a place you don't like? I happen to love NYC

but there are other cities I don't like--including my former home, Chicago which is becoming extremely unihabitable due to greed by public officials (i.e., $160+ parking tickets, boots, $22/hour parking...)

I just visited DC for about the 10th time. In the past I had not liked it because I'm used to driving and you just can't drive there that much. But I do like the Metro and found it to be very convenient this last visit.

So, visiting a place several times has advantages, but sometimes the hype exceeds the experience. People have a right to compare once place to another based on their overall experiences.

[Name removed]

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[RevolutionStartsNow]

14. I love NYC, but I think it's an individual thing, like art or music

Something about Manhattan really appeals to me; I spent a lot of time there in the past 2 years, on business, and I had a lot of time to walk around and see the city. I just love it, it's under my skin.

One thing I love about it is how walkable it is. I can walk around that city all day long, there's so much to look at, and it's flat and hard to get lost.

But I can totally understand why someone might feel different. I think it's a personal thing. Some people prefer SF to NY, Paris to Rome, Barcelona to London. It's a matter of what gets your juices flowing.

Glad you liked the Chrysler Building, though, that's my favorite bit of architecture in NY.

[cally]

15. I love NY

I love the hustle and bustle, the various areas, and the size. I like finding the little neighborhoods where folks actually live and form communities. I just got back from a trip to NY and had a great time. I wouldn't want to live there, though. It's just too urban for me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Grew up in NYC

and lived there until recently.

Best city in the world, but then, I'm biased.

I also lived in SF for about a year. SF is also a great city, but I like NY better.

You have to get to the outer boros, walk the train lines, smell the spray paint, hit a neighborhood bar filled with corrections officers. Here's something I wrote once, about why i love NYC:

Ten things I love about New York City:

1) Just Missing the Train: You're walking into the station and you hear the rumble of the train coming in. You pull your Metrocard from your wallet and slide it through the slot - you start to run down the stairs, but all the people getting out are pushing their way up. Shit. You get to the 8th stair from the bottom and you hear the rush of air (the air breaks letting loose?) so you push to get there - you're at the 2nd stair from the bottom when you hear the bell - ding dong - SHIT! You run to the edge of the platform just to see the door close in your face...but then, perhaps somebody at the edge of the platform has held the door, so there are the two seconds of pure and utter hope - then that bastard starts pulling out. You just missed your train. Nothin' like it.

1a) The Disappointed Faces of Those People that Just Missed the Train: You're sitting on a Brooklyn Bound R train. You're reading a book, but you look up at what you think is Canal (is this a N or an R?!?), cuz you're going to Court Street and - fuck - where the hell am I??? - but the doors are just now closing and you see a young woman running down the steps, and the doors close right in her face, but she still holds out hope that they'll reopen, but they don't, and you see her face, and it's miserable and disappointed and somehow so goddamn beautiful and you think, Well how's THAT action? And you love New York.

2) The Black Spot on the Ceiling at Grand Central Station: They cleaned up Grand Central, so that it now has fancy olive oil stores and a really fucking snazzy food mart where you can get just about any spice your sick and twisted practices require. They cleaned it up good. But, just to let you know what a fabulous job they did, they’ve left a black spot on the ceiling for comparison. The grime was said to be somewhere in the area of 90% cigarette residue.

3) Inherent and deep distrust of any woman named Molly.

4) An Asian chick in Washington Square Park playing something slow and sexy on a violin, while the hustlers hustle close by, below the radar and beneath the fast moving clouds.

5) The Conductor on the N Train Who Drags out His Announcements – He says: “This is a Coney Island Bound N Train; Lawrence Street is Next; Stand Clear of the Closing…………………Doors Please” At every stop, everyone on the train looks up, waiting to see how long it will take for “Doors Please”. Talk about inserting a singularity into a bureaucracy...

6) Meeting friends for an early breakfast – replete with many Bloody Marys - in the Village, the place is playing Mos Def's Black on Both Sides, something like "Pretty nigga skipped the metronome, rocked the Trump Tower to the Terrordome, poor house to pleasure domes, soprano, alto, tenor to baritone," and watching various college students and twenty-somethings, wearing the same clothes they went out in the previous night, making the ritual walk of shame back to their own apartments.

7) Brooklyn. Specifically: Eating a Jamaican beef patty in East Flatbush on a sunny Tuesday morning; the bodega owners on 4th Avenue who won’t let you take a picture of their retro signs; mentally aiming at the Verrazano Narrows Bridge while playing golf with hip hop kids at Dyker Beach; hanging out with the Jamaican kite-flyers in Prospect Park, while they smoke their hoolie rats and insult each other in a language thoroughly unfamiliar to you.

8) Graffiti. Big, fat chrome fill-ins that disturb complacent architecture and awe you with the sheer life that refuses to be ordered, and that can’t help but bubble up with shock and difference through any screen of sameness. When arriving or returning by land, you can always tell how close you are to NYC by the marked improvement of the graffiti. You see the writers on the Long Island railrod tracks in Queens, so comforatble with the sunken walls that they're playing that Mos Def on a beat box, something like "Brooklyn take what you can't take back, some cats hate that, all I can say black, there's a city full of walls you can post complaints at..."

9) Those Tourists that Mistakenly End Up in Brooklyn: They went on the Staten Island ferry to get a cheap view of the Statue of Liberty. They trudged down the stairs at the Whitehall – Southferry Subway stop, but they went down the wrong side, so now they’re on a train to Brooklyn. They have those haircuts and clothes that say “We’re not from around here” – maybe Dallas, maybe Minneapolis - and the husband is terribly misreading the easiest train map in the world to read. The wife – impossibly blonde – is busy holding the youngest kid back from acting a fool, somehow terrified that all the diligent workers who got on in the financial district are aiming to harm her family. You approach them and say “You don’t wanna go to Brooklyn, do you?” and they say – “No, we’re going the 53rd St.” So you tell them where to get off and where to go, and they thank you and thank you while you give your sidelong glances to the others on the car.

10) Dive bars in Hell’s Kitchen and environs, nowhere near as tough as they were even ten years ago, and they were already gentrified then.

[sandnsea]

36. I love that

Maybe you really do have to take a bite out of it to love it. I'm guessing, I've never been. But if I ever do go, I want to see your New York.

[Stephanie]

37. re: 10) Rudy's remains

ungentrified and seedy as ever

:hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

43. Rudy's is a fucking dump

As brilliant as ever. ;-)

[Stephanie]

45. It's the diviest of dives

It's always been a dump, always will be :)

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. Er, excuse me

Subway Inn?

That's about a quarter inch away from the gutter, and makes Rudy's look like the rotating pleasure plaza at the top of the Westin Bonaventure. ;-)

[Stephanie]

59. The place by Bloomingdales?

It's genius!

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. You damn skippy

If you can stand the bathroom, you are fit for Dive Bar Glory.

[ReaderSushi]

18. I

I lived in many places in my life, every habitable continent except Africa. NYC is place I find most comforting. The sense of chaos in the air and anonymity in a city of over eight million is very liberating.

[Atman]

19. So a few days in one of the world's great metro areas...

...and you've made up your mind?

I live halfway between Boston and New York. You made the classic tourist mistake of coming to town and trying to do it in a few days. See every sight you can see. Cram it all in. That's not what any city is about. New York may have been fun for one OP only back when it was crime-ridden and seedier, but then, some still think it is too big and dangerous. That's part of the beauty of it. Seedy and touristy...your choice. Plenty for everyone in NYC. I love it, mainly because a) I don't live there full time, although I am close enough to visit in a few hours, and b) it's freakin' New York City, man!

Your impressions of NYC kind of remind me of seeing an Oscar nominated movie after the Academy Awards show, when everyone has been hyping it's greatness for weeks/months...yet, when you finally see it, it's kind of a let down. How could anything live up to the hype? NYC is so overhyped and oversold...no wonder you were somehow let down. It's a city. A bunch of buildings and shops. You can find seedy clubs, sex, drugs, rock and roll, parks, museums, galleries, food, anything you want, anything. But not all of it in just three or four days. Cut NYC some slack, eh?

I lived in Boston for a while, and my family is from the Boston 'burbs. I'm not sure what you're expecting from a city. Boston is tons of fun. But like San Francisco, LA, NYC, Chicago...it's just a city. Different buildings, different grid, different history. Dig it. Go with it. Enjoy it. Groove on it. But just don't expect so much. Any city is ultimately just a sprawling mass of concrete and steal. You have to work it.

[StellaBlue]

23. I didn't cram it all in

At all.

I am into art and drinking and meeting cool people and watching the action on the streets.

I saw some painting at the MoMA, spent about four hours at the Met.

I went to a bunch of gay bars in the Village (I am a straight woman, but was with gay pals).

I met a friend at his gallery in Soho after work.

I had drinks in the lobby of the Maritime.

I wandered aimlessly all around Union Square, Washington Square, Chinatown, the Village, Chelsea, Midtown, and the Upper East Side.

I drank lots of overpriced drinks, some coffee, and ate some good pizza and Thai and Indian food.

I sat in the windowsill with friends and smoked and talked late into the night.

I went to the top of the Empire State Building. That was about it for supertouristy, and that was, by far, the best part.

I've been a lot of places, and a lot of cities, and New York just didn't do it for me. I think I am probably not cut out for the East Coast, being from the South/Southwest. That has informed my desires, as I'm sure your background has informed yours. I always figured I'd like NYC because it would be so much less like Middle America (ugh.), and more like Europe, but it wasn't. It was just America, all crammed into a tiny, dirty, weird-smelling, graffitied, crowded, not-particularly-stylish rectangle of overpriced real estate. I'm sure I'll go back - to visit friends, to see more art. But it's just not for me.

The best thing I've thought of to describe my disappointment and lack of connection was that is wasn't 'magical'. I didn't feel like I was SOMEWHERE. I can't explain it, I guess. I just didn't get that surge of energy like I felt in San Francisco or London or Paris. I know this is weird, which is why I posted here. I wondered if anyone else, anyone who usually considered themselves 'urban', had the same experience of not particularly connecting with New York.

[Name removed]

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[amitten]

61. Oh, you did forget one small detail...

Pretty much the entire world, Europe included, can be found somewhere in New York. Including every nationality on the planet.

Oh, and you have to LIVE there to appreciate it (as with anywhere, I believe). My time spent living there was far better than any of my vacations there previously. Tourists have no idea. But, kudos for tryin'.

[StellaBlue]

64. I disagree

I don't have to live there to know I prefer London or San Francisco. It's just an immediate bond or lack thereof, and I didn't feel anything at all in New York, which is very weird and totally unexpected. I always figured that if I ever went there, I wouldn't want to leave.

Pretty much the entire planet can be found in every major world city.

I'm sorry, I just don't think New York's that special.

I guess since I was just a 'tourist' I don't get to have an opnion. Funny, I didn't have a camera, or buy any NYPD souvenirs, or see a Broadway play, or get lost on the subway, or.......

[amitten]

71. So, if you knew someone who visited Texas for five days, and

didn't like it, would you say they got a genuine taste of it? And there's one HELL of a lot less to do here than in New York. (Trust me.)

And yes, a tourist is entitled to an opinion. It's just that it's bound to be a slightly less informed one, you see.

[StellaBlue]

81. I don't know about that

Hate to have to say it, but Texas is bigger than France. We are the second most populous state in the Union. We have mountains, deserts, plains, lakes, cities, thick ancient forests, beaches, hills, and about half the US border with Mexico, which makes for a very diverse place. We have three of the largest cities in the United States and some of the smallest rural hamlets. We have cowboys and investment bankers and big-haired ladies who lunch and dred-locked hippies and soccer moms and Cajuns.

And, yes, I would think that if someone spent five days in Texas, and, especially if they visited several, diverse areas of the state (as I visited the Lower East side and Upper East side, basement record stores and Sak's, dimly lit Indian restaurants and Times Square), that, yes, their opinion would be just that: a real opinion.

I don't know why a few people (who insist on continuing to post here even though they claim they are uninterested in my comments) seem to think that they are the center of the universe. Like I said, I can hate Texas with the best of them. But I've realized, too, that, essentially, people around the world come in the same basic sizes and types, scattered about randomly. There are probably an equal number of assholes in New York and Dallas.

I am a very educated, thoughtful, political person. But I am not pretentious. I also don't need external verification of my choices in life. I know what I like. And I like Austin a million times more than New York.

[amitten]

97. You must be a native. 'Nuff said. Enjoy those...hills.

(I do.) But N.Y. is infinitely harder to absorb in five days than any one part of Texas. I say that as someone who has lived several years in both, and am native to neither. And it took me a solid 6 months to "click" with Austin. Now, I absolutely love it. But no one can truly judge ANY city if they haven't lived in it. If you say you don't like a place after 5 days, what you're really saying is, "After five days, I didn't like it." That doesn't mean you would feel the same after a year, for instance.

[StellaBlue]

103. but why would I want to move somewhere I actually DISliked?

When there are so many great places that I LOVE?

I maintain that I am entitled to my opnion and that, for me, it is valid.

What if I said to all the bashers, 'You just don't KNOW enough about Texas. You don't GET it. You're too provincial to get it. Wait ten years and then you're entitled to an opinion, so as your opinion is that you love it.'

That's basically what I am getting here.

[Name removed]

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[amitten]

113. If that's what you said, I believe you'd be correct. You can't

"get" a place after five days. Period. That said, if you didn't like it, damned if I care. But snap judgements are rarely fully informed. I have a friend who visited Sweden for two weeks. LOVED it. Moved there for a year. HATED it.

You can't judge a city in five days any more than you can a person.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[crispini]

143. Oh, like there aren't a million Texas-bashing threads on DU all the time.

Wow. The animosity on this thread is out and out amazing.

[StellaBlue]

145. I agree

At least Texans can admit Texas' faults and agree that it's not for everyone. :shrug:

[Stephanie]

102. "Revelation: I don't like New York City."

You don't want to defend your post. You think everyone should just shut up and agree with you. Guess what? I don't! And the fact that you have to keep insisting on how thoughtful and educated you are in spite of your words just tells it all.

[StellaBlue]

108. I don't think everyone should agree with me

So far, you haven't provided ANY content that would change my mind. All you have proven is that one New Yorker is petty and mean and has way too much time on their hands.

You're a Grade A Asshole, wanker. I am ignoring you now. You, my friend, not I, are the worst of America, and the type of person that makes us the laughing stock of Europe.

[Stephanie]

112. Good Answer!

Nominated!

[TankLV]

126. "There are probably an equal number of assholes in New York and Dallas."

Well, we at least know of ONE more from Dallas now, don't we!

But continue - the hole you're digging for yourself is very amusing.

[StellaBlue]

127. I'm neither from Dallas nor digging a hole

I am entitled to be underwhelmed by New York.

That was all.

Get a life.

[TankLV]

142. I have a great one, thanks. Been all over the world.

Honolulu boy and all.

Now go ahead and say something ignorant about Hawaii - we'd LOVE to hear your "wisdom".

I'm not the one who has to "get a life" dear. I suggest you look at the world around you.

[TankLV]

130. So you visited Buffalo and Syracuse too?

And the Adirondacks as well?

Wow!

I thought you just visited ONE CITY - but here you go having to compare an ENTIRE STATE to just ONE CITY!

Yeah, you didn't even know what you saw of ONE CITY let alone the ENTIRE STATE - but try to compare this ONE CITY with that ENTIRE STATE!

WOW! I glad to know NYC could stand against an ENTIRE STATE!

Simply pathetic...

[StellaBlue]

133. now you're just grasping

sad, sad (shaking head)

[TankLV]

144. Yes - YOU are GRASPING - and PATHETIC.

You are amusing.

[Missy Vixen]

20. I'm looking forward to seeing New York

I'm a Seattle native. We have heard stories. For example, our friend Bob, born and raised in NYC: "Julie, you CANNOT smile at people on the street there. Wear black, walk fast, and look like you mean business." He thinks anyone who wants to go to New York is out of their mind.

I still want to go there, hopefully next year. I loved the September 10th description of New York City -- it "swaggered". I want to see if it still does for myself.

Julie

[Cassandra]

27. Of course you can smile at people on the street...

I do. You don't have to wear all black; color is appreciated. I wear plenty of color. Definitely walk fast though, or I'll run you over (getting stuck behind someone walking slowly gets me nuts).

[RB TexLa]

30. You can smile, the real trick is how to get some walking space if you need

it. Only thing that works, start talking to yourself, be sure to use your hands when you do, and of course it doesn't always work.

[The_Casual_Observer]

22. NY isn't as much fun if you are on a budget.

Your remarks about the $10 martinis (you got a deal, the ones at the Algonquin are $15) and fares indicate that you were. The views in SF are more pleasant too.

[Cassandra]

24. Born and raised here...

and I love this city. There's always something to do. I don't have to own a car or park one. It's a great walking city. We make efficient use of space and energy. It does help if you're sober.
In Ken Burns' documentary about New York, in the last segment one of the people interviewed says that what he loves about NY is the sense of serendipity about going out in the street; you never know who you might meet. I like that and take advantage of it.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StellaBlue]

50. Very open minded

Funny, I don't think I ever said I hated NEW YORKERS.

You have some serious issues. Why are you so personally offended that I like San Francisco better than New York that you would take time to write three or four personally insulting, off-topic replies? :shrug:

Stay in your little bubble, then. Fine with me.

[Stephanie]

74. I am simply recommending that you STAY HOME.

What's so hard to understand? You can't hack it for a few days in the capital of the world, STAY HOME.

Why are you surprised? Did you think you could ramdomly insult NYC with no response? Did you think your aimless martini-drenched weekend was some sort of revelation? What did you think you were going to get? Oh, gee, StellaBlue, nobody ever thought of hating New York after spending sum total of one weekend there before YOU did, Stella, you're so BRILLIANT.

[StellaBlue]

85. you need some serious psychological help

I don't want to 'hack it'. I don't see what there is to bother about. It was just another city, and not a particularly beautiful or historic or vibrant one, IMHO. And I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are. You sound more suited to live in some kind of fascist quasi-New York... maybe you should try the New York, New York casino in Vegas. Now that's a city that truly never sleeps. (But still sucks.)

[Stephanie]

91. Are you still talking?

I must have dozed off for a minute. Wish I could say it was because of those $10 martinis! Oh boy by golly! Them martini's is expensive!

[Stuckinthebush]

32. You don't like NYC????

Come to Birmingham, Alabama then reconsider.

:D

[RoyGBiv]

33. I enjoyed it ...

I did have a strange experience, though, that may or may not, depending on your point of view, mesh with what you're saying here.

I have just enough country boy left in me not to think much of potential dangers in large cities. (Well, I think of them. I just haven't been taught enough of a lesson to care, e.g. I still have to remind myself to lock my car doors when parking.) So, one night while I was there, I just decided to go walking, by myself, around Manhattan. I saw the sun come up. I had fun doing this even though I realized at some point too many of the people I ran across were so much friendlier from distances than would seem normal, and I started to realize I was the fly, and they were likely trying to direct me to their web. I ignored most of this, though, just wrote it down in my memory for later mental exploration. When I was done with my self-guided tour, though, I realized aside from that, it wasn't just a great deal different than walking around my old home town at night, except that more people were awake, and more places were still open, not places I wanted to enter, but places. So, yes, in that sense, it was underwhelming.

But the rest of it was fantastic. I don't look for hip or style. I like to find the quietest bar in the area and interact with the locals who are also not looking for hip or style in the evenings. During the day I did touristy things, saw places I had only seen in pictures and noted the vast differences in perception that resulted. It seemed both smaller and bigger than I expected, smaller in geographic area, bigger in terms of its variety. I don't know why I didn't expect variety; I suppose I had this mental image of an average New Yorker, and I never met a single person that fit that image.

I've been to San Francisco too as well as LA. I love San Francisco, but I'd have trouble picking between there and New York. Both had their charms, some similar, some not. I didn't like LA for reasons I can't completely explain. Well, part of it is that I was driving when I was in LA, and in New York I took cabs, walked, and rode subways and trains. In San Francisco I took buses and walked. I hate driving in unfamiliar cities; driving in one with the traffic problems of LA was one of my worst nightmares realized.

[crispini]

34. Funny, I'm from Texas too, and I love NYC.

I'd move there in a second if I ever won the lottery. Of course, I do like big cities. I lived in Bangkok and Shanghai and compared to those cities, NYC is pretty spacious and laid back. Now you're right, it's not particulary European, but it is unmistakably what it is... New York!

Now, you know where I can't stand? The Boston suburbs. Metro Boston, I like, but I keep getting sent on business to places like Newton and Waltham and Marlborough and Framingham. Holy cats. You HAVE to rent a car, and the traffic is INSANE, the people drive like maniacs and the roads are horrible and it's cold and to tell you the truth, all of those trees creep me out. I start feeling claustrophobic with too many trees around and I can't see where anything is and it's not actually "The Country" but it keeps threatening to turn into "The Country" at any minute and it's dark and cold and you can't find any place to turn around and you're afraid the road will just keep going forever off into some Stephen King-inspired horrorshow of cold woodsy fear. :scared:

Business trips suck.

[judaspriestess]

39. I'm from Texas and I love NYC

I love the atmosphere!!

Now Hellay a total different story. Very pretty but just don't care for that city at all but whatever I can still hang out there if I must.

[GRLMGC]

47. Hellay?

Thanks

[mdmc]

40. I just got back from Brooklyn

I ate at my favorite resturant , Beet on 7th. I love the mad energy of the city.

[RB TexLa]

82. all this talk about restaurants is making me want a big plate of

martini pasta on Montague St.

[ruggerson]

44. NYC is the center of the world

As far as humanity goes, as far as living amongst and between people - it is simply the most wonderful, exciting, alive, profound, energizing and enjoyable place to be on the entire planet.

Of course, it helps to keep a car housed there and escape to Maine on occasion.

[StellaBlue]

55. see, that's just what I didn't feel

It didn't feel more 'center of the world' than London or Paris, except that I had been taught my whole life that it WAS the center of the world. Otherwise, I would never had arrived at that conclusion based on my own experience. It was just another city to me, and not the most vibrant or exciting or beautiful or historic. I just don't get it. :shrug:

[Stephanie]

146. It's a ruse! WACO is the center of the world.

Don't tell anyone. Sshhhhhh! This is just between us. But you should move there tomorrow. I'm quite sure you'll get a very good feeling.

[Stephanie]

46. P.S. - Who asked you? Geez, if we listened to every hayseed's opinion -

we'd have to close down the city and plow it over with alfalfa.

[crispini]

51. LOL, apparently you care so much

you've posted three times on this thread. Why do you let what anonymous people on the internet say piss you off so much? :shrug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

57. Shows what you know, you city slicker, we can't grow alfalfa in Texas

It's too hot and dry. :P




:hide:

Don't hit me, I love NY. :loveya:

I'm just attempting to make you smile. :) I know nobody likes to feel like their home is being dissed.

[Stephanie]

63. It's so rude!

Honestly, I'm ready to go to TX right now. I'm sure I would have some opinions.

[crispini]

66. Heh, if I had a nickle for every time someone bashed Texas

or my hometown, right here on DU, I'd be a zillionaire.

Guess that's an advantage of living here -- you learn to not care what other people think about you or where you live. It does make life a little easier not to get all tweaked up about things that don't really matter one whit in the big scheme of things. :hi:

[ruggerson]

69. pack some hair spray n/t

[StellaBlue]

73. ftr

I have never owned any hairspray, or had a manicure, or been in a cotillion.

[ruggerson]

76. you sure you're not from louisiana?

:)

[crispini]

80. You are obviously an Austinite.

:rofl:

[StellaBlue]

92. not by birth

I am from behind the pine curtain

[RB TexLa]

72. Come on down

I'll show you around, we will have to take a car since we only have two light rail lines. :-( And don't get scared like everyone else from NYC that visits us when we tell you it's 20 miles from the airport to our place.

As far as opinions you'll have them I'm in North Dallas and there are plenty of "W" stickers, but every now and then you run into a guy wearing a cowboy hat, western shirt, spitting into a soda bottle in an old farm truck with a Kerry/Edwards and a faded Clinton/Gore or Ann Richards sticker.

[TreasonousBastard]

52. Born and raised in NYC and I see your point...

truth is, I never understood "great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there."

New York after King Rudy just isn't the place it used to be, but it never was really a place to just drop in. Even Manhattan is a series of very separate neighborhoods that might as well be towns of their own. You pretty much have to spend a while to "get it" and understand just what makes the place special.

The thing about New York was always that whatever you might want, it was available for the taking 24 hours a day. You just had to know what you wanted and where to get it. And that's not as easy as you might think. Generations of artists, actors, writers, musicians, con artists and entrepreneurs came to New York to make it big, and some did while others died broke. All that energy seems to be finding someplace else to be spent.

I go back there now and it's just not the same. Sterile is the word that comes to mind. The real energy seems to be in the barrios and 'hoods where the new immigrants are finding what they want and getting it.

[readmoreoften]

56. Exactly right

Sterile is the perfect world. I feel like there is no energy here at all. The only people who seem to be excited are the art school kids living away from home for the first time in the "big city."

[Book Lover]

53. So you saw less than 20% of NYC

and you hate it? OK, fine.

[StellaBlue]

58. I didn't say I hate it.

And, sorry, no offense, but people the world over don't talk about Brooklyn or Queens or the Bronx or, certainly, Staten Island. New York, to most people, is Manhattan. Queens and the Bronx, which I did visit (I don't know what scientific formula you used to get that 20% figure), could've been close-in, old suburbs of Baltimore, as far as I could tell.

I don't get all the flames here. I am entitled not to like New York. I've certainly seen less than 10% of Houston, and I *do* hate it.

[crispini]

62. Oh, everyone hates Houston.

:evilgrin:

But our Houston DU'ers and Dems there are the best people in the world! :hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

67. A couple of stories that might explain it

1) I started working at a job in Manhattan, and they had hired a bunch of kids just out of college, most from liberal art schools that State U guys like me never even heard of when we were looking, like Colby, and Oberlin, and fucking Hamilton. So, one of these kids - just moved in from Minnesota - is working on a project with me, and she starts talking about her new apartment in the upper east side that her mom helped put the security deposit on, and how she was so excited to live here in NYC, and how she was really learning the "Metro" (I shit you not). So she asks me where I live. Brooklyn, I say. Period. "Oh, that's lucky! You don't have to pay the New York City taxes." Now, being someone who grew up in the boros, and attended New York City Public Schools all my life, I just about shit myself. "Um, Brooklyn is part of New York City," I say to her, "I pay New York City taxes just like you." She blinks a couple of time, trying to process this. Fucking Minnesota gonna tell me that I don't live in New York City because she has an apartment in the Upper East Side, basically a open air dorm for these three-year transients? "Oh. Really?" What can you do but smile? Point being, it doesn't matter fuck all what "most people" think as to Manhattan, etc.: New York City is New York City, whole ass and tout court. Quite frankly, I'm skeptical that all that many New Yorkers live in Manhattan anymore, it being populated largely by Minnesotans from Colby, as far as I can tell. ;-)

2) Same job, about a year later. New crop of college kids in for interviews, and I'm interviewing one of them. Looks like your home address is Texas, I say. You from Texas. Uh huh. Damn proud of it she was too. I told her, jokingly, that we probably wouldn't get along. Why, you don't like Texas? It's not that I don't like Texas. It's that I'm a New Yorker, and your a Texan. Of all the people in the country, the New Yorkers and the Texans are the most rabidly provincial, the most absurdly loyal to their space, and they all know it. You can get lefty philosophers in New York who know damn well that such provincialism is well and truly ridiculous, but that doesn't matter a fucking whit. Hell, they'll argue for the general quality of DUMBO over Bushwick, much less deal with some shitheel from goddamn Texas. And the Texans are the same. We had a laugh over it, but it's true, so when you come on here, claiming the Lone Star, and say NYC underwhelmed you, you can expect some responses doused in kerosine. There's the old story of the folks in Maine who condider people to have just moved in to townb if they've lived there less than thirty years. A dirty little secret: despite (or maybe because of) the huge movement of people into NYC, many New Yorkers are the same way. So a five-day trip, compounded with your general Texasocity, was bound to provoke these responses. I'm not justifying them, just explaining the dynamic. But really, at the end of the day, you don't know shit about NYC, and I don't know shit about Texas after my 5 days in San Antonio (which is one of the reasons I wouldn't blog about it ;-)).

[crispini]

77. hee hee, I like your second story.

I think how people react to this stuff is an interesting litmus test. Betcha a nickel the OP knew perfectly well she was gonna get her shorts flamed off by SOMEONE. :rofl:

[incapsulated]

78. Texas and New York, it's true!

I've never met anyone as loyal to their home state as Texans and New Yorkers and that's why we tend to hate each other: "Look who thinks they are the center of the universe!" :)

But I do think we have a grudging respect for each other. After all, we both think we are are seperate countries, lol.

I don't criticise any state or town or region in "public" because, well, that's someone's home, and I know great people from everywhere, so even the worst hellhole can't be all bad, heh.

[GRLMGC]

79. I agree with your policy

I never criticize other people's homes in public because its just that, HOME. I know what its like to have your home bashed and its irritating as hell.

[incapsulated]

84. Can't we all get along?

:D

I'd rather read about what is really great about your corner of the universe than why you don't like mine.

[GRLMGC]

87. I know

It's upsetting. I had to deal with it on this thread when its about NYC, hahaha

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. See my post #16

I try to do just that, but the flame war erupted anyway. :shrug:

[RB TexLa]

101. I tried on #29, loved your post by the way n/t

[incapsulated]

109. I loved your post!

But I have to say I find nothing romantic about missing my train, heh. Except to teach me patience, something most NY'ers need to learn. ;)

I had a New York Moment coming into manhattan from brooklyn on the N, today. The sun was starting to set as we went over the bridge, the water was almost blinding with reflected light and there wasn't a lot of water traffic. And in the distance, looking out to the sea with the city behind her, Lady Liberty raising her torch to the world on a clear day. It moved me, it was so simply beautiful and real.

[crispini]

88. I just don't get why people get so invested

in unwarranted criticism of where they live.

People tell me, "I don't like Dallas."

I say, "Oh, when were you here?"

"Oh, I was there for a convention for two days once."

I say, "Oh, well, if you come again I'll show you some fun stuff" and leave it at that. What I think is that, hey, you're entitled to form an opinion and I'm entitled to think your opinion is silly.

What I don't get is the VENOM, the whole "Criticise my home and I'll have your guts for garters!" I think it's kind of silly and provincial, to tell you the truth. Every place has its good points and bad points, but they're really just places. Insisting loudly that your home is the best place on the planet-- well, yeah, rednecks DO do that, but that's why they're rednecks, bless their hearts. :7

[incapsulated]

100. Well, it is silly

But I tend to respond that way on a gut level a lot. New Yorkers are bad that way, we really are almost tribal. So are a lot of Texans. It's arrogant but that's part of our charm, hehe. But a lot of the country has hated NYC for the past 30 years, too. We are the symbol of liberal permissiveness to many, just as Texas has become the symbol of conservatism and fundamentalism to others. So we get a lot of heat. It makes people defensive, but we are also just arrogant and don't give a fuck for anyone else. It's the same reason people hate the French, they really like themselves best, lol.

[crispini]

107. Maybe it's because

I have never, ever lived in a place that I "clicked" with from the start. I always would move there and HATE IT and then there was this process of learning to find what I needed. I think what I found is that every big city has a million little small towns in it and if you just get out and get involved you'll find what you need. But it's never about the place itself for me, it's about finding my place within the place. I suppose moving a lot will do that to you. :D

[incapsulated]

119. Appearances can be deceiving

Some places are like beautiful but superficial people, they charm the pants off you at first and you are sure you're in love... until you get to know them, heh. And others seem ugly or stupid at first, but are full of surprises when you get to know them. Some places you love because of the people and others in spite of them, as well.

[crispini]

123. Like San Diego, sooooo beautiful!

But my friend who moved there works SO HARD to pay her mortgage she never gets out and go to the beach. I think she thinks it's worth it, though, at least I hope she does. I need to go visit her again. Such a lovely city.

[incapsulated]

128. It's true of most desirable places

They are so expensive, it's difficult for the working stiffs who live there to enjoy them. Unless you move out where the population is sparse and there are no big cities around. Then you have to find a way to make a living.

[crispini]

138. Yes, that's true, I suppose.

Cost of living is low here but no mountains, no ocean. Oh well, politics makes a nice hobby. :D

[StellaBlue]

125. I agree

I wasn't rude. I don't hate New York. I just didn't like it as much as I thought I would. That's no crime. I don't understand the vitriol. I mean, get a grip. If they're so happy, why are they so easily threatened?

[LibDemAlways]

140. I'm with you. I've lived in LA (or as its been

called on this thread "Hellay" for 45 years). The tourism people would never hire me to promote the place. Parts of it are butt ugly. The 5 freeway through the City of Commerce - horrible. The freeways are jammed. There are too damn many people, and significant numbers of them are airheads. But, you know what. The weather's mostly good. The beach is nearby. There's always something going on. The prevailing attitude is "live and let live." There are definitely worse places.

You're right. Getting worked up over someone else's criticism of where you live is a waste of time. No location is paradise,just as no location is a total hellhole. And, final observation: What's generally more important than where you are is who you're with. That makes all the difference.

[StellaBlue]

114. But we WERE our own country

haha

I never said I hated New York. I don't. I hate Houston. :P

[incapsulated]

121. Yeah, MEXICO!

:D

[StellaBlue]

135. ummm..... no

[StellaBlue]

99. we have the same problem here

too many fucking foreigners (aka Yankees) moving in. It can get pretty annoying. I liked it better when they all thought we were a backward outpost and, thus, stayed away. Soon there will be no regional culture whatsoever. And, yeah, Southerners never think you're a native of anywhere unless you were, basically, born there. You might've lived in Macon all your life, but if you were born in Shreveport, your obituary will say, 'Shreveport native and 95-year resident of Macon...'

But I think the biggest mistake most people make about Texas is to think that we are all anti-intellectual, hair-spray-lacquered, right wing Bible thumpers. I just dare those people to go to Austin. It's mind blowing. I figure our cosmetically-enhanced, nylon-wearing, eyelash batting, soft-speaking sisters are only a slightly different incarnation of your big-haired, cheap-gold-chained, long-fingernailed, loud-talking ladies of the boroughs. You know? The provincials aren't the sum total of either place. But part of the real salt of it.

[incapsulated]

60. It takes several days just to see all of the Met, let alone New York City

Some cities you love at first sight, others take time. Even cities I disliked at first, grew on me deeply as I got to know them. You really can't know New York in that way in even a few weeks let alone a few days. I grew up in NYC and have a fondness for all cities. But I love the country life, too.

You can't please them all. But then again, we will get along fine without you, heh. It's kind of rude to dump on other people's hometown, you know. Did we ask your opinion? Live where you like, who cares?

BTW, some of the most "interesting" people in the world came out of Brooklyn.

[ruggerson]

65. The only decent thing Texas ever gave the world was Janis Joplin

and she couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there.

;-)

[StellaBlue]

129. not true on either count

;)

[Cats Against Frist]

68. Sorry you didn't like it

I split my time between rural Iowa and Seattle, and I love NYC. As someone above said, I would also move there if I won the lotto. Unfortunately, moving to NYC would require me to get a real job, and jobs are for suckers. So, no NYC for me.

My own 30 second impression: Mid-town Manhattan is a lamehole of suckage, though -- but decent for a first time out. It's like going to a mall, but the first time, it's like going to a really cool and famous mall. East & West Villages, Chelsea and Soho vastly overrated -- but I did have the best Indian food I've ever had in my life in the East Village. Central Park is a fucking park -- but parks are nice. Brooklyn rocks the house, and is the center of the universe, as far as I'm concerned. Coney Island is where I'd move if I won the lotto. Queens is good, too -- you should have gotten out to the neighborhoods more.

[Blue_Tires]

75. i'm not a fan of living in really big cities

but even you can't help but to love the Mets!
right? right?!?

[DetroitProle]

83. You ain't seen nothin' till you seen Detroit...

the realest place on the planet. Stop by. We promise we won't miss you.

[shanti]

86. that's nice

but there are a lot of great du'ers that live there. :shrug: dunno what your point was, but it wasn't necessary.

[crispini]

93. There are lot of great du'ers

that live in Texas too, doesn't stop the continual Texas-bashing on DU either. I'm finding this thread pretty funny to tell you the truth.

[shanti]

137. and i totally agree with you

i don't think there should be bashing of any u.s. regions. divide and conquer is what they do....

this isn't the only "funny" thread on du tonite. something must be in the air :eyes:

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

89. I don't like Bentonville, Arkansas

It's the nastiest, most depressing place I've ever been. Having to go to WalMart HQ didn't help my perception, but it wasn't the only thing that shaped it.

Otherwise I always like to see a city that's new to me. Houston was a place I didn't think I wanted to go to, and I was right. I wasn't looking forward to San Antonio either, but I loved it there.

The first time I visited San Francisco, it was one of the best experiences. When I flew back home, Chicago looked like a gray factory town from the air. When I came back from my first trip to New York, Chicago looked like a forest by comparison. It's always nice to come home.

I don't get around much anymore. I've never had much money for personal travel; most of the time it was business that took me out of town. So whether it was interesting cities like Toronto and LA, or less sexy towns like Cleveland and Tampa, I appreciated the opportunity to see someplace new.

[DaveJ]

90. I'd like to join in!!

I have a tendancy to want to bash places. I think it may have something to do with the fact that I really have no particular place I can call my "home town." Or maybe it's that I've met a lot of people who really have no idea what it's like to be outside their home town or city who really need to broaden their horizons. Comparing the West coast to the cities I've lived in here in the midwest, Chicago, St. Louis, and small towns in Texes, I have the impression midwesterners have no idea what freedom is all about. Californian culture really strives for providing people the sprit of freedom, in my own experience. But again, there are some who are so narrow minded that they have no clue how things can be improved in their own backyard.

[crispini]

96. You have to pick a specific place and start with that.

Then the other one argues back vociferously, that's how we play. Let's see, shall I hate on somewhere in California to start us off? :evilgrin:

[DaveJ]

115. I doubt you'll find anyone to bash CA

As far as Chicago goes, I've never seen so much litter as areas outside downtown. Business owners typically do not seem to care less about the appearance of their storefront, they put complete trash in their window displays, it's amazing. I finanlly realized that they hate gentrification so much that they are willing to maintain a trashy appearance in the hope of keeping real estate values under control. People are nice in general but somtimes the niceness is pointless and insincere. There are some spoiled brats who have no idea how easy they had it growing up in a real city like this, and would have no idea how to get by on a level playing field.

[crispini]

118. Oh, I'll pick on California for ya.

It's too easy. The Governator? :evilgrin:

[Richard Steele]

95. Jesus H. W. Christ on a butterfly ballot! Did anyone even READ the OP?

I did, and here's what I got out of it:

1:
She went to NYC for a few days.
She saw a lot of great stuff.
She enjoyed seeing the aforementioned great stuff. (AGS)

2:
Her enjoyment of the AGS did not TOUCH her, spiritually/emotionally,
to the extent which she had expected it would.

3:
She is honestly trying to determine the reasons for her
failure to CONNECT with the city on that level,
and asking us for assistance.



But, as long as no one is gonna actually stop and THINK
about what I just posted above anyway...

[Swamp Rat]

106. Enoch Powell on a pogo stick

:D

[DaveJ]

117. It's more fun getting all upset over nada. nt

[crispini]

120. Yes, but a good flamewar is fun.

:popcorn:

[Katherine Brengle]

98. I love NYC personally, but...

I understand what you mean about being tired and your feet hurting. Last time I was there, I walked 30+ blocks from 23rd to the MoMA--it was a really nice day so I thought I'd save the cab fare, and I don't like the NY subway when I am alone.

I was fine when I got there, but after strolling around in the museum for hours and then walking another 10-15 blocks to the subway to go back to Brooklyn, I has blisters.

I still love it though--just make sure you're gellin'.

(And never ever ever wear flip-flops when you are gonna be walking a lot, lol--learned that one last summer.)

[TankLV]

104. And I hate the unearned braggerts of Texas - they REALLY have nothing

to brag about.

Houston's a faceless, ugly SWAMP.

Dallas just sucks.

The rest is boring and mediocre at best.

But it's the unearned and undeserved BRAGARTS that are Texans in their stupid oversized cowboy hats (grow up already - you're not a child anymore!) that is the most rediculuous and anoying.


But go ahead - regail us with another of you diatribes of what is probably the greatest city in the world.

I've been to and lived in many places - and they were all beautiful and I would have loved to have lived there forever - except Texas.

Feel better now?

[Stephanie]

124. Precisely!

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

122. Yes. Lubbock has SO much more to offer.

:crazy:

:)

[incapsulated]

131. Well, it did cough up my father.

Without whom this native New Yorker would not exist, lol. :)

[Bluebear]

132. Fair enough lol.

Even HE moved though!

Seriously, every place isn't for everybody, but when you get to insulting someone's home, you're bound to get clobbered.

[incapsulated]

139. Oh, and Buddy Holly.

Who also moved to... New York! :D

[GRLMGC]

141. I must say

this is the first anti-NYC thread I've ever seen

[RB TexLa]

134. 5 4 3 2 1 .......

"locking"

was only one post deleated, now they have a few of them gone.

see everyone later

:popcorn:

[maddezmom]

147. locking

flamebait turned into a flame war