State Might Create Birth Certificates For Stillborn Babies

[The Straight Story]

State Might Create Birth Certificates For Stillborn Babies

POSTED: 10:23 pm EST March 8, 2006

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida is two steps closer to creating birth certificates for stillborn babies after lawmakers unanimously approved the "Missing Angels" bill in two committees Wednesday.

"It's exciting to see that the Legislature is embracing it as a means of bringing help and healing to people. I'm excited at the momentum it's gaining," said Daryl Logullo, of Vero Beach.

Logullo and his wife, Beth, are pushing Florida's part of a national movement to create birth certificates in every state. Mothers who carry children for at least 20 weeks and deliver them stillborn could request the certificates.

Daryl and Beth say they're working in honor of their baby Katherine, who was stillborn two days after Mother's Day last year.

http://www.local6.com/news/7829293/detail.html

[badgerpup]

1. Forgive me, but...

...I really don't understand the point of this.
I realize it's painful and devastating to have a pregnancy terminate this way, but a birth certificate would accomplish what?

[linazelle]

23. I wonder too. Were they "born" if being born means to give life?

:shrug:

[kestrel91316]

2. Guess they are going to disregard the fact that

"birth certificates" are also known as "certificates of LIVE BIRTH".

[chookie]

3. How unique

Giving social identity to a dead child. Weird because in history, given the high rate of death in birth, that cultures did not give the baby (not to mention fetus) social identity until it survived at least a few days.

Which way is better?

[Drum]

4. Oh my...

What weirdness is this?
Is it retroactive, can anyone who has had this happen can file for one of these?
WHY does this couple's fear-of-forgetting (I'm guessing) mean a law has to become enacted???
What are the legal rationales involved, like insurance and estates?

[mmonk]

5. dead babies

can take care of themselves (sorry, an old Alice Cooper song popped into my head).

[BattyDem]

32. Oh damn ... that song will be stuck in my head all night!

[ReadTomPaine]

6. Future GOP voter lists. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

7. somehow i'm getting the feeling that

this would be opening things up to an entirely new universe of fraud (insurance, taxes, immigration, etc)

[The Straight Story]

10. Fetal life and accident insurance

coming to a company near you. What is worse is they will make it mandatory insurance, and then tell you how to handle your pregnancy and make laws to protect the insurance companies. Followed by having to wear two seat belts while sitting in a car seat on top of a booster seat :)

All joking aside though I think a dr should have an option to pass along something to the parents which could help them through such a trying time - not sure it hurts anyone, might help some - but I also don't see the need for any laws to be made.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. So will they be able to file a life insurance claim then?

[Erika]

19. Certainly, and if the mother and father

practiced bad health practices, the feti(fetus) should be allowed to prosecute the parents in civil court.

Yes, the inmates are running the asylum.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

Sorry. It's official. The inmates are running the asylum.

Stop the world, I want to get off.

[The Straight Story]

11. Can you remake the photo you have in your sig?

I think it should be a black hole swallowing up all our rights, money, and freedoms.

[Dem2theMax]

35. If you figure out a way, take me with you!

I WANT OUT OF THIS INSANE COUNTRY!

(Sorry for yelling. I'm sure you understand.) :crazy:

[Erika]

9. It's the Schiavo big brother/government thing all over again

Get government in our lives as much as possible is their theme.

[preciousdove]

12. Do I get one with every period? n/t

:wtf:

[Erika]

15. Yeah, it's the next W tax credit

Stillborns come with a double tax credit.

[niyad]

13. another WEDGE in the anti-choice scenarios, don't you think? one more

step in granting feti personhood.

[Erika]

16. Yeah, does the father or mother qualify for a feti tax credit?

What will be the insurance rates for feti coverage?

[Generic Other]

14. You can get a birth certificate for a freakin' cabbage patch doll too

It doesn't make it a live baby.

I say we put old Beth Logullo in jail for "killing" her stillborn. Accidental or not, we can't have mothers just spontaneously miscarrying without penalty, can we now?

WTF is the matter with these people? I have met dogs with more common sense.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

17. Smells like more anti abortion floggage to me.

[linazelle]

24. That's definitely what it is...but aren't these aborted babies too?

Shouldn't the parents be arrested too? :sarcasm:

[Gloria]

18. At Mahablog, she's posted stories about women who have had

stillbirths and are in JAIL!! Yup, in jail........


http://www.mahablog.com/2006/03/08/under-the-rug-ii/


In other words, just because the abortion law itself doesn’t provide a legal liability for the mother doesn’t mean she wouldn’t be liable under another statute.

Farfetched? Not at all.

Prosecutors all over the country have been experimenting with this approach for years. In South Carolina, Regina McKnight is serving a 12-year sentence for homicide by child abuse. Why? Because she suffered an unintentional stillbirth. The prosecutors said she caused the stillbirth by using cocaine, yet, they did not charge her with having an illegal abortion — a crime that in South Carolina has a three-year sentence. Rather, they charged and convicted her of homicide — a crime with a 20- year sentence. They obtained this conviction in spite of evidence that McKnight’s stillbirth was caused by an infection.

Thus far, South Carolina is the only state whose courts have upheld the legitimacy of such prosecutions. But in fact, women in states across the country, including South Dakota, have already been arrested as child abusers or murderers — without any new legislation authorizing such arrests. In Oklahoma, Teresa Hernandez is sitting in jail on first-degree murder charges for having suffered an unintentional stillbirth. In Utah, a woman was charged with murder based on the claim that she caused a stillbirth by refusing to have a C-section earlier in her pregnancy.

If women are now being arrested as murderers for having suffered unintentional stillbirths, one should assume that in South Dakota’s post-Roe world intentional abortions would be punished just as seriously.

MUCH MORE

[Erika]

20. And men are held harmless and innocent

Truly sick. It seems we have two Americas, one which hates women, and the rest of the country.

[cynatnite]

21. Maybe it's an attempt at some sort of recognition...

they were parents and had a baby after a certain point in the pregnancy. :shrug: I'm just trying to put myself in their shoes, but it's so hard never having gone through anything like this.

Maybe other DUer's who've been in a similar situation can comment and offer something as to why parents would want a birth certificate for a stillborn infant.

I am concerned that this would be an attempt for the government to personify deceased fetuses once outside the womb no matter how it happened. This is not necessarily a good thing, IMO.

[The Straight Story]

22. My X went through this

After us having three boys and then eventually splitting up she got pregnant with a girl, which she had wanted so bad for many years. It was a crushing blow for her. It may have provided her some closure, different people need different things.

[rodeodance]

31. yes

[kevinbgoode]

25. Will they be issuing birth certificates for miscarriages, too?

You know, just before they serve the mother with an arrest warrant for "involuntary manslaughter?"

[politicat]

26. I'm sorry, stillbirth is tragic, but this is a very stupid law.

1) Infant deaths are the best way to get a fake identity or passport. If we add in all of the stillbirths per year, that makes it far easier to create forged documents in about 20 years. This is something we do not need.

2) This is a covert way to give rights to the unborn. Obviously, if the child qualifies for a birth certificate, it was a person at some point, right?

3) The absence or presence of a birth certificate does not change the other laws surrounding taxation, inheritance, property, etc. You won't be able to claim your stillborn child on your income taxes (though you can claim the medical expenses), and you can't leave property to a child who predeceases you. So this law does nothing but open up opportunities for fraud.

4) It's a great example of a Proxmire folly - the extra paperwork involved with keeping track of these records is going to increase the strain on county health departments that are already understaffed and overworked. Is the state going to pay for the extra work? No... it's probably an unfunded mandate. I hated Proxmire for what he did to the space program, but in this case, he'd be perfectly right to throw a fit.

[nonconformist]

27. Sounds like they're trying to set a precedent to me. nt

[Erika]

37. Yeah, for suckering in funds n/t

[rodeodance]

28. " Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth" (CBRS).-Tx has this form.

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/field/stillbirth.shtm

Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth

Parents of a stillborn child may order a Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth (CBRS). If the child was of a gestational age of no less than 20 weeks, parents may request a CBRS from the Texas Vital Statistics by submitting an application and a $9.00 fee (tentatively this fee will be $20.00 beginning December 1, 2005).

When a Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth is requested, Texas Vital Statistics will issue a certificate with the name, date of delivery, city and county in which the event took place, and parent or parents’ names. This information can only be taken from the state fetal death record on file in the Texas Vital Statistics office. The Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth can not be used as proof of live birth.

To request a Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillborn, complete the downloadable form and return it along with a photocopy of valid photo identification and a check or money order made payable to the Department of State Health Services at:

[rodeodance]

29. and AZ has one (1 dollar more than Tx) (CBRS).

other states may have something also. i just goggled a few.

http://www.azdhs.gov/vitalrcd/stillbirth.htm

[rodeodance]

30. they have had it since 2001.

In 2001 the Arizona Legislature established a new certificate entitled "Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth." This new certificate became available from the Office of Vital Records beginning August 9, 2001.

Certified copies of a Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth cost $10.00 each and can be requested in person at the customer service counter at the Office of Vital Records or by mail.

Applications are available in the lobby of the Office of Vital Records and may also be printed from this web site.

Who may order and obtain a certified copy of a Certificate of Birth Resulting in Stillbirth?

[Erika]

38. The certificate of birth resulting in stillbirth? Right wing crap

I had no idea this far right wing crap was going on. Initially $9.00 but increasing to $20.00 for a state certificate stating that a birth resulted in a stillbirth? The right wing states are taking advantage of very vulnerable adults, and padding their coffers. A true shame.

[rodeodance]

33. Minnesota also has one.

http://www.missinggrace.org/MissingAngelNewsRelease.html

[Erika]

34. Sounds like the states have come up with a new revenue source

Ceritificates for still borns. How pathetic.

[Erika]

36. Minnesota charging 16$ for a current stillborn certificate

and 40$ for a "retroactive" stillborn? For what?
Great revenue source if you can find the suckers to buy into it. Why do they want a piece of paper anyway, what does it prove/say to them? Are they out of their freaking minds?

[blonndee]

39. This is unnecessary. I don't understand the need for it! I had a baby

who was very premature (about 26 weeks) who died, and although I neither requested nor received a birth or death certificate, we were able (without hassle or any legal complications) to take possession of the body and have a funeral. The only "legal" documents I had to sign had to do with permission to allow the hospital to conduct an autopsy for educational purposes, as it was a teaching hospital. The rest was up to me.

For me, having the choice to have a funeral and bury my daughter provided the "closure" I needed. It had nothing to do with what any governmental agency had to say about it! (and I was *gasp* rather naive and conservative back then) I guess it's POSSIBLE someone would want this, but just based on my experience, that was the LAST thing on my mind. The only motive I can see for this is undermining reproductive rights in the public mind.

[Erika]

40. So sad for you, so very sad

I doubt if you felt the need to pay revenues to a state for a certificate.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

41. Don't enough people steal these to make new identities?

I've always read they use birth certificates of dead youngsters to then get SS cards, drivers license and you're a new person. So I've read anyway.

This seems like it would cause a lot of problems for very little benefit. Give them a fake one maybe, not a real birth certificate.