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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:13 PM
Original message
Water found on Saturn moon.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/09/cassini.enceladus/index.html

The Cassini space probe has found evidence of geysers erupting from underground pools of liquid water on Saturn's moon Enceladus, scientists announced on Thursday.

High-definition pictures beamed back from the probe showed huge plumes of ice coming from the moon's south pole.

"We're inferring that there is a liquid water reservoir under the surface and it's erupting in a geyser-like fashion, maybe like the Yellowstone geysers you would see," said Linda Spilker, Cassini Deputy Project Scientist.
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revree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Was it Arrowhead or Sparkletts?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow, very cool.
Where there is water, there can be life.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. There's life out there somewhere. It would be next to impossible (odds
wise) if there wasn't. I don't know if it's Saturn, but if it is I wonder what form it is. Microbial? How would it exist? Would it be carbon based?

I loooovvvvveeeee stories like this.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Relevant quote from "Contact" .....
"I'll tell you one thing about the universe, though. The universe is a pretty big place. It's bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it's just us... seems like an awful waste of space. Right?"
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Love that movie. nt
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. And the book is a hundred times better...
IMO
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I totally agree - there is life out there, somewhere, in so form. nt
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. It's also a good sign that there's water out there...
We may end up needing it.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Cool!
Now why do you suppose God put water there? Hmm....

I know, so we could find it and go "Cool!" (Hey, he really is my own personal Jesus! ;))
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Meanwhile, what's left of NASA's science budget was last seen
Edited on Thu Mar-09-06 05:45 PM by impeachdubya
leaving iraq in duffel bags full of unmarked bills.

But that is very exciting news. I think these ice-and-water bound moons like Enceladus, and Europa, hold the best shot at finding (higher-than-microbial) life elsewhere in the solar system.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. bottled at the source
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. First photo of life on Enceladus
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. FOUR probable water sources in our solar system alone! FOUR!
Earth, Mars, Europa, and now Enceladus--with Enceledus showing atmosphere with water vapor, volcanic plumes of water erupting from its surface (forming Saturn's E-ring), and water probably only 10 meters below the surface. It's very cold on the surface (minus 200-300 F), but below the surface extreme forms of life could exist, such as exist at extreme temperatures on earth.

The odds for other life in our solar system--for other life in our galaxy, for life in other galaxies, and for sentient life as being abundant in the universe--just took an astronomical leap, so to speak. The odds have been dramatically increasing over the last several years, with the discovery of planets outside of our solar system, circling other stars in our galaxy. There are billions and billions of stars in our galaxy, and billions and billions and billions of galaxies in the visible universe. The numbers are mind-boggling.

FOUR sources of water in this relatively miniscule environment (our solar system). It almost has to be everywhere. We tend to be a bit myopic here at DU, what with our nation falling to pieces--and concerns about our species even being able to survive the Bush junta (let alone fufill our heart's desire as the wanderingest species we know of, from the first step out of Africa, round the globe, and all the way to the moon). We must take care and see to the just and peaceful organization of our own country, and try to return it to the fold of lawful nations. Clearly, that is our first duty. But still...

...I feel such joy at this discovery, and I commend it to you, especially if you tend to despair at the current political scene. Let yourself think big sometimes, and lo-o-o-o-o-o-ong term. What is all this about? And what is our individual part in the furtherance of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness among all sentient beings?

:think: :woohoo: :think:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I wonder how much water there is on Mars?
Could whole oceans of ice be hidden under meters of dust and debris?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. One ice cap is water ice...
As far as subsurface is concerned, well, its certainly possible that there are a lot of aquifiers, underground water resoviours that are "capped" by ice. Alot of the water eroding on Mars is consistant with sudden flash floods, consistant with having an aquifier "break out" and flood the surface for a time. This would be especially true during Mars' warmer period around 3 billion years ago or so. During that time, with similar axial tilt as the Earth, it is certainly possible that there were "water" seasons, in winter water is trapped just under the surface, and in the summer it breaks out to flood the surface. Just so you know, Mars is drier than Earth, but it does have enough water, especailly in the North Pole, to support a sizable ocean in the northern hemisphere. Even after such an ocean is formed, there is still about the same land area as Earth. Hence the interest in colonization, even after terraforming the planet, this would still double, at least, the total living space of humanity.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Colonizing Mars is a very human trait. Humans through history
would settle in one place, exploit it until it was played out, then move on. So we are running out of places to move to here on earth.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. While colonization on Earth has had severe negative consequences...
Edited on Thu Mar-09-06 09:13 PM by Solon
Mostly related to the fact that we displaced other people that were living there to make room for our groups. For space colonization, its actually a little simpler, for while its certainly possible there is life on Mars, most scientists doubt it is up to the pyroplankton level in evolutionary development. No martians to either make war with or displace. Mars is, for all intents and purposes, dead, and also, while there are resources that are exploitable on Mars, you cannot just send a shitload of spaceships to the planet, and they would be able to colonize it for our purposes. Mars is extremely hostile to Human and most other Earth Based life, we would need to change the planet to be more suitable to colonization first, and then maintain the system necessary to keep the planet habitable. This could be a boon, for experiments, like atmospheric scrubbing of CO2, that would be untenable to test on Earth, could be done on Mars first, without worrying about destroying ecosystems or putting animals and plants in danger. Using such techniques could actually save or restore the Earth to a pre-industrial atmospheric state, which would take possibly thousands of years to happen naturally, but decades if we could interevene directly.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. My feeling is that earth society will collapse before we
have the technology to terraform then colonize Mars.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Couple more years of Bush, and I would agree with you. n/t
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. May you be pleasantly surprised...
I have a feeling you might...
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Will technology be in place before we are forced to
abandon the fossil fuel economy? It just seems that political roadblocks to the very technology we need keep springing up. Instead of taking on the challenges looming we seem to be retreating to the comfortable world of fear and superstition. Some like bush are grabbing what they can for themselves.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Oh, I'm not sure the U.S. will be the leader...
but maybe we'll be able to coat-tail on something...
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I don't think we will be the leader either.
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
49. and as agent smith said in the Matrix
there's another organism that does the same - a virus
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. The problem with surface water on Mars
is that the planet's nearly pure CO2 atmosphere is only 1/100 as dense as the earth's, meaning that water would evaoprate almost almost instantaneously upon being exposed to the open air.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. That's true TODAY...
However, with the South pole being almost entirely composed of CO2, there is a good chance that the planet had a much thicker atmosphere billions of years ago than it does today. Plus, if we could artificially warm it, that CO2 would be released, both thickening the atmosphere, and accelerating the warming effect dramatically through the greenhouse effect.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Your post begs the following questions
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 03:19 AM by Art_from_Ark
1) What caused Mars to lose its thick atmosphere in the first place? Was it because its gravity was too weak to hold it?

2) Given the extreme cold of the Martian poles, and the vastness of the polar cap, how would it be possible to even begin to melt CO2 ice and keep its gaseous form in the atmosphere in sufficient quantities to thicken the Martian atmosphere to any appreciable degree?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Many factors, related to the mass of Mars and its orbit...
Helps explain the reason the atmosphere is so thin nowadays. OK, first thing to make clear, all planets have atmospheres that leak out, slowly, into space. The rate of losing such atmosphere depends on 4 things, first, how geologically active the planet is, second, how reactive the gasses in the atmosphere react with other substances to form liquids and solids, third, how strong the gravitational pull is on those gasses, and fourth, the ambient tempurature of the planet's surface.

Now, I'll go into detail as to how this relates to Mars, the first, geologic processes, namely volcanoes, contribute greatly to not only the composition of atmospheres, but there overall thickness as well. On Earth, we have many eruptions per year, and that contributes, quite a bit, to keeping the Earth's atmosphere stable in regards to thickness, composition is more complex, but mostly the only reason Earth is habitable to humans at all is because of photosynthesis. Now, onto Mars, basically its a situation of the larger the object, the more heat it can retain, this is also related to how many radioactive elements are present in said planet, but a molten ACTIVE core is necessary, outside of tidal effects, to keep the interior of a planet warm enough for active geology. Mars lacks that, as is noticed by the lack of a magnetosphere, meaning the core isn't spinning rapidly, also, being half the size of the Earth, it lost a lot more heat over the years than the Earth. While Mars is home to the largest volcanoes in the Solar System, none of them have erupted in at least a billion years, according to most theories. This leads to a gradual thinning of the atmosphere, if Mars had a biosphere based on photosynthetic life, they would eventually die out, lowering the oxygen content, NOTE: much of Mars surface is Iron Oxide, rust, and without a sustainable biosphere, that oxygen becomes locked up into molecules with iron. Now, the atmosphere, by this time, would be quite thin, being thin, it doesn't retain enough heat necessary to keep surface tempuratures high enough to prevent, at the south pole at least, from carbon dioxide from freezing into dry ice thinning the atmosphere even further.

Now, during this time, the water present in both atmosphere and surface becomes locked up in the north pole or vaporizes out of Mars atmosphere entirely, water locked up already in subsurface aquifiers wouldn't vaporize, they would be plugged, by either rock or ice, and its possible that it is JUST warm enough down there for water to remain in a liquid form, hence possibility for life to survive. What water is left becomes permafrost or frozen ice at the north pole, but NOT in liquid form anywhere on the surface. That is the situation today, what used to be a warm, somewhat wet planet, with rivers and oceans, is now a planet in a frozen deathtrap, where the atmosphere now contains 95% carbon dioxide, is 1/100th the pressure of the atmosphere of Earth, and dotted with extinct volcanoes.

So, what could humans do to thicken the atmosphere, you ask, first things first, it would take a while, decades at least, possibily centuries, though not necessarily. One method mention is to darken the poles with what amounts to soot, that is too heavy to be moved by the thin winds, but basically will absorb more heat from the Sun than white ices would. Another method involves placing orbital mirrors over the poles, that increase the amount of solar radiation that reaches them. A combination of these two methods could greatly increase the amount of energy hitting the poles, and, because CO2 has a MUCH lower melting point than water means that the south pole will vaporize first, and there MAY be enough CO2 present to thicken the atmosphere enough to have almost three quarters the pressure of Earth's atmosphere at sea level, about the same pressure as many human habitations at high altitudes here on Earth. Now, this is enough atmospheric pressure to allow the North Pole to melt and have liquid water form on the surface of the planet. Not to mention that since the composition of the planet will not change much, if at all, more water vapor, to be sure, but mostly a CO2 atmosphere, the greenhouse effect then kicks in, warming the planet even futher.

Once that is done, a few things could then happen, one is that with oceans, you can have algae on the surface of the planet, so we could "seed" Mars with photosynthesizing organisms that can tolerate high radiations along with low oxygen enviroments. In addition to that, we could then process the dust of the planet, using robotic, factories, or possibly organics, like bacteria that would utilize solar power to break apart the chemical bonds between the oxygen and iron, giving us a large iron resource on the planet and freed oxygen in the atmosphere. With freed oxygen, an ozone layer could form naturally with the oxygen reacting with cosmic radiation in the high atmosphere. Once that is done then we would have a planet that is fully habitable by humans and any other organisms we wish to bring with us. Plus the biosphere would last, with little maintainence, for thousands of years. However, one thing to make clear, while Mars would be habitable, leaving it to its own devices, it would again revert to the way it was before terraforming, unless maintained. Granted, energy and man-hours wise, its probably more efficient than let's say, space stations or habitats, at least after the initial hard work in warming it is done but it would most likely still be worth the costs. The best part would be that it could be done remotely, with no humans ever having to actually set foot on the planet, nor risk going there at all.

One thing I think people don't realize is that this is actually much cheaper than it sounds, and slightly easier than it sounds. While its easy to destroy, its a bit harder to create, as we find out on Earth. There are a couple of things that would be expensive, no getting around it either, the first would be constructing the Mirrors necessary to increase the solar radiation. They don't have to be all one piece, but rather could be thousands of individual pieces orbiting in sync with the poles. To be honest, we had the technology to do this about 30 years ago, give or take, we were capable of sending probes to Mars, that could operate somewhat independently. Back then, the biggest stumbling blocks were lack of computing power, and lack of experience. Nowadays, we have enough experience in exploration, though its still a crapshoot, just like everything else in life, but even then, we have robotic probes that OUTPERFORM their initial design, that's actually heartening.

While we have the technology, nothing science fiction about robots in space that operate semi-independently, we do lack experience in space construction. While we can jam Earth constructed pieces of space station together in orbit with few problems, thank Russian experience for that. It still requires direct human intervention to fit those pieces together. In order to make this economical at all, we would actually have to have experience in constructing useful objects in space from basic raw materials ALREADY present in space, using robotic fabrication facilities in various orbits. An idea would be to either tear apart either Phobos or Deimos to build the mirrors I mentioned, then using the remaining regolith to darken the poles.

Now the real question is why would we do this in the first place? Depending on the person it could be just to explore, in other cases call it insurance, in still others, simply expansion. From an economical only standpoint, we would be making an enormous investment, but at the same time, we would double the amount of real estate that humanity can occupy. That is one thing that people may not realize, on Earth, we are running out of space, and we are running out of energy, in addition to a host of other problems related to human activity, most related to human overpopulation. With the loss of various biospheres and species on this planet, we are running the risk of having a homogenized planet. Given that diversity in species and between them ensures longterm survival, we would have to face choices that would be untenable to many. Not to mention the risks associated with having all of humanity, and various host species, all on one planet, that we finally realized after Shoemaker-Levy, is actually vulnerable to utter destruction. It would most likely be in our best interest to expand in space, both for humanitarian and economical reasons.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. To give an idea as to what Mars MAY look like (Pics!)
OK, this is Mars today:



This is what Mars MAY look like if terraformed:

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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
52. Well, now, THAT'S pretty cool. n/t
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. i didn't know this
:kick:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. i didn't know this
:kick:
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No DUplicitous DUpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
50. And maybe we are all related...children of stardust.

Great post, btw, and I agree, the universe must be rich with life! Wow.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Space exploration would jump considerably...
if oil was discovered.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. It would sure get the space program going, wouldn't it?
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. Actually, that's one thing that is somewhat aggravating about...
The current way the space program is billed, so to speak. While I know you talk about oil as sort of a joke, think about this, there is more Iron and Nickle in an average Metallic asteroid that are also NEOs(Near Earth Objects, somewhat dangerous to us) that have more of those metals within them than ALL the metal present on the Earth's crust at this time that we could exploit. A Carboneous Asteroid has more carbon than probably the entire biomass of the Earth, and all this could be easily put into reach. We know, now, that we can land spacecraft onto asteroids, successfully, and soft landings at that, why not put practical fabrication facilities, robot/remote operated on said asteroids, move them into stable orbits around the Earth(wouldn't take as much money as you would think), and then have space programs that are both scientific and practical, build better space stations, in orbit, and also be able to "import" exotic materials that can only be manufactured in micro-gee environments, etc. We could have a space program that is, for all intents and purposes, self funding.

Other possibilities for space development includes food production, we are running out of arable land on Earth, but know that plants can grow in higher radiation and lower gee environments. Given 24 hours of sunlight a day, and no seasonal variation, plus higher CO2 atmospheres that are possible in closed environments in space, a LARGE amount of food can be grown and sent back to the surface of Earth in very short times, hell, it could even be organic food. Plants don't need to be engineered for this, we know now that for many species of crops, you can grow them this way. Another example would be orbital solar panels in geosynchronous orbit that transmit energy to microwave receivers on the surface, the solar panels would be kilometers long and wide, yet far enough away were they would be almost invisible, plus they would solve much of the world's energy problems using very little surface are on the planet itself.

These are just possibilities, not even requiring any new exotic technology that doesn't exist yet, and don't even need that much an investment, at least initially. About the cost of the Apollo program, give or take, but could be absorbed by different nations rather than just one. The benefits outweigh any shortfalls by far.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I don't know about stable orbits around planet...
they'd have to be small enough to not have any impact on the planet. The moon is considered very small and it has a profound impact on the oceans.

I have no doubt there are plans and ideas in the works to do what you propose as far as making use of resources on other planets. It's shocking that so little is being done in the government sector as far as exploration.

But then again, this is the anti-science regime. For now, we can only hope the civilian sector can pick up the slack.

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. The moon is actually quite large, compared to our planet...
Edited on Thu Mar-09-06 11:45 PM by Solon
Its one quarter the size of our planet, if it was any larger it would have tidal effects that would heat up the crust more than it already does. Most moons, around other planets are 1/100 the size of said planet or smaller, and have negligable tidal effects on the planet, the only exception would be the Pluto/Charon system, where Charon is half the size of Pluto, and they orbit around a common point. We already have an asteriod that has been orbiting the Earth for the past couple of years, a pretty good size one at that, of course, its not in a stable orbit and will swing back out into interplantary space I think this year. I'm talking asteroids anywhere from 6 miles long, and maybe that much wide, to ones almost 20 or 30 cubic miles in size. They would have little effect on the planet as a whole, but would be great for the resources availuable. From just rock and ice, which are both excellent for sheilding spacecraft, to Iron, Nickle, Chromium, which could be used to build said spacecraft and stations.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. One of the reasons we need to promote
commercial exploitation of space. Even if we have to hold our nose while we do it.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. Are they positive its water and not any other subtsance?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. countdown just did a piece on it and the scientist were pump to say
the least - and so am I after seeing them.

This is BIG
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Because I know there's forzen/liquid methane volcanoes, right?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. the scientist felt pretty confident that it is ice geysers, I am not
versed enough in this subject to know about your question, sorry. :(
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. They can do spectrographs on geysers to figure out the contents of them...
Edited on Thu Mar-09-06 08:52 PM by Solon
That's how we know that the most active volcanoes in the solar system, Io's, spew sulfur thousands of miles off the surface of that moon. Its also how we know that Titan's atmosphere is composed mostly of methane, also, we know that another moon, I think its Miranda, though don't quote me on that, has geysers of liquid nitrogen, its one of the coldest bodies in the solar system(only 50 degrees above absolute zero), and yet still geologically active.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Can't believe that I am the first one to nominate this - this is good big
news
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wow, a chance for life on another moon.
There are a few moons that are thought to have conditions that could support life. Very interesting stuff.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. There can't be life on some other moon
How the heck could Adam and Eve have gotten way up there? They didn't have rocket ships back then, Silly.
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OxQQme Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Imagine this as a destination 'resort' hotel view











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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
34. Question #1: Who will volunteer to drink it?
Question #2: How long before we go after the "terrorists" there to protect our fweedum? :eyes:
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Wrinkle_In_Time Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
35. "And I think to myself: 'What a wonderful world'. Oh yeah." n/t
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. BFD...does it have oil?
Okay, sorry, someone had to say it. :)

Seriously, that is amazing news.

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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #36
53. Water is the oil of the future.
Not only do humans need the basic stuff to drink, but some of those water molecules contain deuterium, which is what we need for fusion power. The power provided by the fusion process lets us break up more water molecules into oxygen (which we need to breathe) and hydrogen. Put them back together with a spark, and we've got heat, conventional power, and propellant. But you have to find the water first... and figure out how to control the fusion process, which has been thirty years away for all of my more than thirty years.

Here's an interesting thought, courtesy of all those Arthur C. Clarke books I read as a kid. Perhaps you've heard of the http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4495505&nav=HMO6">space elevator, which proposes to lift objects to geostationary orbit (22,300 miles high) without the need for expensive rockets. But if we were to double the length of that elevator to 44,600 miles, the second half of that trip isn't a lift, it's a throw, sort of like casting a fishing rod. If we time it right, a double-length space elevator could toss an object all the way out to the orbit of... Saturn!

And what do you know? Now we've found a moon with no atmosphere, minimal gravity, and water--the perfect service station. Now we know we have the fuel and basic stuff of life we need to actually get back from Saturn--or go even farther, perhaps to the Kuiper Belt, where there is also water to be found.

The entire solar system may yet be our playground, perhaps within our own lifetimes, if we want it badly enough.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. How cool
I love news like this. Even IF space exploration just a dream right now every little piece of news like this makes me a little more hopeful for us all.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
38. So cool.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
54. Cool indeed. 300 degrees below zero?
Is that correct?
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. I think it's actually 200 below, which is what's so remarkable about it.
It should be 300 below, but for reasons yet to be agreed upon its 100 degrees warmer than that.

This might be as silly as it sounds, but nursing mothers might be a step ahead of the rest of us on the answer. Take a look at this picture:



HUGE version on this page:

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/display.cfm?IM_ID=4023

Do those look like stretch marks there in the southern hemisphere? That could be caused by the gravitational forces caused by Saturn and its other moons, and that stretching may be causing friction which produces all that mysterious "heat." "Heat" is a relative term in a place where you're a billion and a half kilometers away from the sun.

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