I want male birth control.

[joshcryer]

All this abortion debate stuff is bothering me (it's just depressing seeing both sides having legitimate arguments and no real solution is found). I think a male birth control pill would solve these arguments (though they wouldn't solve the social problems completely of course). Anyone with me?

According to this site: http://www.askmen.com/love/dzimmer_60/72_love_answers.html "the pill" for men was to go on the market in 2005. Where is it? Where can I get it?

[muntrv]

1. I'm for it!

It would cut down on teen pregnancy.

[gatorboy]

2. Wasn't Bobbitt part of this experiment?

eom

[nicknameless]

5. !

:spank:

[joshcryer]

10. Hahaha

Shame on you.

[katty]

3. we can't get morning after pill, but they pass out Viagra like

cookies to the menfolk!

[frustrated_lefty]

4. Male hormonal contraceptives: current status and future prospects

Latest review:

Treat Endocrinol. 2005;4(6):333-41.


Male hormonal contraceptives: current status and future prospects.

Amory JK.

Department of Medicine, Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA. [e-mail]

Because of the shortcomings of currently available methods of male contraception, efforts have been made to develop additional forms of contraception for men. The most promising approach to male contraceptive development involves hormones, and requires the administration of exogenous testosterone. When administered to a healthy man, testosterone functions as a contraceptive by suppressing the secretion of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone from the pituitary, thereby depriving the testes of the signals required for normal spermatogenesis. After 2-3 months of treatment, low levels of pituitary gonadotropins lead to markedly decreased sperm counts and effective contraception in the majority of men. Treatment with exogenous testosterone has proven not to be associated with serious adverse effects and is well tolerated by men. In addition, sperm counts uniformly normalize when testosterone is discontinued. Thus, male hormonal contraception is safe, effective, and reversible; however, spermatogenesis is not suppressed to zero in all men, meaning that some diminished potential for fertility persists. Because of this, recent studies have combined testosterone with progestogens and/or gonadotropin-releasing hormone antagonists to further suppress pituitary gonadotropins and optimize contraceptive efficacy. Current combinations of testosterone and progestogens completely suppress spermatogenesis in 80-90% of men without severe adverse effects, with significant suppression in the remainder of individuals. Recent trials with newer, long-acting forms of injectable testosterone, which can be administered every 8 weeks, combined with progestogens, administered either orally or by long-acting implant, have yielded promising results and may soon result in the marketing of a safe, reversible, and effective hormonal contraceptive for men.

On edit: rough estimates are that they may reach the US market by 2007/8, and will probably emerge in Asian markets before that. I'm with you, though, sign me up.

[joshcryer]

13. Thanks for the info and timetable...

I couldn't find anything on the first three pages of Google (thus I assumed it is non-existant at this juncture). I wish it was already on the market.

[flvegan]

20. You're just trying to impress the chicks.

Sound familiar?

Your reminder...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=611066&mesg_id=613059

[frustrated_lefty]

26. *grin*

Yes, I remember. ;) Perhaps I should have put :sarcasm: beneath the earlier message, but I thought the use of the word "chicks" would tip you off.

-fl

[flvegan]

32. It didn't, but now it did.

Cheers.

[stepnw1f]

6. I'm Gonna Get My Balls Chopped Off

Just kidding... I will get an operation to prevent me from breeding anymore, as soon as I have one kid. Besides, there are plenty of kids to adopt.

[lovelydem]

7. i agree

i can't wait until they have a male birth control pill!!!

[fishwax]

77. welcome to DU

:toast:

[joshcryer]

9. Yeah, if I had a kid I'd adopt, definitely.

I might have a kid with someone, but it's not like there are any special someones in my life. So right now adoption is the real route I'd take.

[Swamp Rat]

22. Yes, adopt a child

Someday I will, when I am able. :)

[Katherine Brengle]

37. ...

I think my hubby is going to do the same thing (the snip, not the chop)--we already have on amazing child, and hell if I am going to pop out another one.

F* that, lol.

If we want another child down the road, there are too many unwanted children in the world who we could adopt and give a good life.

[stepnw1f]

49. That's Cool

It's good to know so many folks here would be willing to adopt.

[DBoon]

8. Yes, if you control male births

you will reduce the crime rate.

Fewer males born, though, would result in a surplus of women.

[joshcryer]

11. Which would be a bad thing?

Hehehe.

[Djinn]

12. I beleive there's a new fangled option on the market

called a condom.

seriously though, there's a good reason why there are more female contraceptives than male and it's not because men can't be trusted/are bastards etc, it's easier (and less problematic) to prevent ovulation than to stop the production of sperm

I can't say that I think a reliable male pill would stop abortion/child support debates, people currently use contraception (including condoms which every man has the ability to use) but it's not 100% reliable and neither are human beings, there will always be people who get pregnant and don't want a child

[joshcryer]

16. The problem with condoms is when...

...the girl says "I'm good, don't use it." I know a lot of girls who prefer no condom usage. It's a sticky situation, because of course guys could, if they had the pill, make the same argument.

[SmokingJacket]

21. Condoms really are the best choice, though.

No disease, no pregnancy, and the neither partner has to take hormone pills. :thumbsup:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

25. sure. It's like getting a massage while wearing a raincoat.

A guy actually used that one once... ummmm with a friend of mine. :evilgrin:

[Djinn]

92. to be honest I hate the bloody things

which is why when I'm single I go off the pill, too much temptation to leave the horrid things in the packet if there's another form of babyprotection available, I can see how a guy might be reluctant (for the same reasons as women) to insist on condoms because to some people it implies that you think they're a scrubber but if I were a guy I'd be wearing 2, regardless of any hurt sensibilities. I'd want to be DAMN sure

[frustrated_lefty]

24. You used the "c" word.

Those things are pure evil. A pill, a shot, a subdermal implant, anything would be preferable.

[MercutioATC]

14. I went the more permanent route (vasectomy) but I agree.

Why make it a woman's sole responsibility? Beyond that, If I don't want any more children, why wouldn't I make it MY responsibility?

[joshcryer]

17. I've considered that.

But there is the remote chance that I would want a child in the future, and, well, reversing a snip snip isn't guaranteed. Although I think you could extract sperm from the testes, and use articial insemenation but yeah.

[MercutioATC]

19. Don't do it unless you're certain.

I'm 38, my son is 15, and I retire in 10 years. I really don't want any more children at this point.

For me, though, it's been a great way to take responsibility (and eliminate risk) for the whole reproductive thing.

[CTyankee]

30. Thank you!!

On other threads, when I and others post that, we get "That's what the fundies say to women. Keep your legs closed."

I'm glad you have made the case as a man. Hugs and cheers.

[HockeyMom]

15. Sterilizations

I predict if all these State abortion bans fly and Roe is overturned you will see a marked increase in the number of sterilizations.

As it is now, sterilization is the #2 form of birth control among married couples. If chemical BC is banned as abortion, you don't think vast numbers of especially married couples who don't "want as many kids as God gives them" will not want to take any changes of less effective means of BC?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. Hell, Why Not? If It's Safe and Non Permanent It's A Good Choice.

Back in the days when I was a total bed hopper I would've gladly taken such a pill.

[LeftCoast]

23. While male birthcontrol is a great idea, I don't see how it has any effect

on the abortion debate. :shrug:

[joshcryer]

28. It's simple.

Guys can't say "I didn't want the kid and she told me she was good."

[LeftCoast]

36. Sorry for being dense here, but I still don't see what that has to do

with abortion. :shrug:

[joshcryer]

41. Then you aren't seeing the debates I'm talking about...

The debates center around "male rights" and "female rights" and so on.

[cynatnite]

46. Her body, her choice. That's all there is to it.

If you want to ensure you not getting a girl pregnant, don't have sex. 'nuff said.

[joshcryer]

47. It's not about her body.

The debate that I'm talking about is about the obligations that the state demands of the male. I don't think that obligations should be mandatory. Saying "men are obligated to pay for a child to be raised" is, to me, the same thing as saying "women should be obligated to give birth to a fetus." They're both BS statements.

And that is the last I respond to anyone about this argument, because if you just "don't see it" then you really don't understand the authoritarian roles of government as I do.

Really, it's depressing no one can see it as clearly as this.

[LeftCoast]

50. I think I see where you're going with this but

the only way this would 'solve' any such debate is if the pill were 100% effective and 100% of men engaging in sex were able to take it. Never going to happen.

[joshcryer]

54. The only way to solve it...

Is to stop making these things mandatory. No mandatory abortions, no mandatory child payments. Both sides win. Yay!

[cynatnite]

57. no mandatory child payments???

yay for the men...sex without responsibility.

The losers: Women and children.

[joshcryer]

62. Oh women can't get birth control?

Or abstinance isn't a viable choice for them? Oh, double standards, I see.

[cynatnite]

65. leave it ALL on the women...that's your preference...

you want the easy sex without the consequences that go with it.

That's the double standard and hypocrisy at its finest. :eyes:

[joshcryer]

67. Nope, this post explicitly asks for birth control.

I don't see how that's "leaving it all on the women." But you guys are the ones invoking abstinance and so on. Not me. I think we should freely have sex without worrying about knocking people up if we have the ability to control it. Birth control, abortions, and so on. What you're trying to do is what the Repubs are trying to do, control men just like they're trying to control women on the abortion issue. We shouldn't be MADE to do anything.

[cynatnite]

68. Men and women should take responsibility for their actions...

Period.

I don't get why this is such a problem for you.

[joshcryer]

70. Because the government makes it their business.

The government has no business in my personal life.

[cynatnite]

74. If you escape your responsibility of fathering a child...

I'd want the government on you and in your business.

You're looking for a way to have sex and if a woman becomes pregnant as a result, you want to be able to walk away without being responsible should she decide to have a baby. It wasn't what you wanted and your attitude is why should you pay for something you didn't want.

This is why sex is for mature adults and this is why parents must do a better job in educating their children in not just the biology, but also the consequences.

What you want just ain't gonna happen. People have sex and there are consequences. Deal with it. If you want the 100% guarantee, don't have sex.

[joshcryer]

76. And that's the difference between you and me.

I don't want the government interfering in your personal decisions and forcing you to do things you don't want to do.

[cynatnite]

80. And you think it's okay for men to not pay child support...

if they don't want to.

:eyes:

The children pay for it and continue to get treated like the ugly sweater at christmas time.

[joshcryer]

87. Hey the mom shouldn't have had the baby.

I mean, that would be pretty irresponsible, bringing a child into the world and not being able to take care of it.

Talk about responsiblity. :eyes:

[cynatnite]

89. And you continue the moronic thinking...

that men shouldn't have to support a child they helped make.

You continue to shove off the responsibility onto the woman and leave men free and clear to do what they want without a thought to the part they played.

You're from this school of thought:

"I'll fuck you, but it's your fault if you get pregnant."

[joshcryer]

90. I'm just using your logic.

My argument is quite sound as far as "government involvement in peoples lives" is concerned. You simply don't consider it insulting that the government forces men to do something whereas you would have a lot of problems with them doing it to a woman.

edit: by "your logic" I'm talking about "responsiblity." You are the one talking about responsiblity of individuals. I'm talking about the governments responsiblity to leave us the heck alone. But it's your fault I went with the responsiblity argument. I don't care one way or another.

[cynatnite]

93. and you think your responsibility ends after the orgasm...

you don't think you should have to take any responsibility for the part you play in creating a fetus.

That's irresponsible and immature. When two people create a fetus they BOTH have a responsibility. Period.

You think men should be able to say to hell with the women and to hell with the children and walk away.

Since there are so many men with your attitude, the government has had no choice but to force them to take responsibility by garnishing their wages and other income in order to help support the children they helped create.

You conviently keep ignoring the children in deference to your own arguments. Being a progressive, liberal, dem or whatever you call yourself doesn't mean that people should be able to do whatever the hell they want without having to deal with the consequences.

Sex has consequences...and there is NO getting around it.

[joshcryer]

96. Oh, so a fetus is a living being which we should be responsible...

...for?

That's essentially what your argument is saying. It's kind of simple.

Girl and guy are responsible for making a baby.

Girl gets pregnant, if girl doesn't think guy is going to take care of the baby, she should consider that her thinking about getting an abortion or having the child (this is her responslibilty). If she can care for the child, then she doesn't have the abortion, if she can't, she does. Responsliblity.

Guys are mandated by the government to take care of the child, so girl takes that into consideration, and often has the child even if she cannot herself take care of it (often what happens is the man cannot take care of it either even though the government requires it of him). Where are women being mandated by government to have the child?

I like how you say "children" here, because we're still talking about a fetus, the child is not born or even viable when the decisions are being made.

I think more pregnancies would be aborted if women didn't think they'd get mandatory child support, myself. That would at least be the responsible thing to do, espcially since most unwanted childbirths result in more poverty for the child and the parents.

[cynatnite]

99. Yeah, lay it all at the feet of the women...after you fuck them...

The poor guy only contributed half the DNA in creating the fetus. :eyes:

You have no idea how idiotic you sound. The more you keep trying to defend your indefensible position the worse you get.

In your entire post you never said one single word about the man taking any responsibility at all.

If the woman wants an abortion and tells the guy he should help pay for it, he can give her the finger and walk off. She's left to deal with it all alone...even though she wasn't the only one in that bed or whatever place they were at creating a fetus.

Keep in mind that if the woman chooses to continue her pregnancy to term it becomes an infant...a child...an innocent who deserves to be cared for and supported by BOTH people who created him or her.

I think more pregnancies would be aborted if women didn't think they'd get mandatory child support, myself. That would at least be the responsible thing to do, espcially since most unwanted childbirths result in more poverty for the child and the parents.

:eyes: Geez, your logic is disgusting, delusional and insane. China would love you. :puke:

You're a waste of time and energy. I'm done with you.

[joshcryer]

100. Good. I was tiring of the insults, myself.

This is precisely why I didn't want to address the argument. I knew someone would just rip in to me for having a sensible position.

We don't want government telling us that we can or cannot have abortions. And I don't want the government telling me that I can or cannot pay child support. That is a personal dilemma that must be addressed by the two individuals. Responsiblity is not even part of the question, because I'm not saying a man shouldn't, I'm saying a man shouldn't have to, by the governments dictation. That's the distinction here. A man can and should from a moral position still take responsiblity for a child if it is born, but that shouldn't be for the government to decide.

Next you'll be saying the government should mandate that a man pay for half of an abortion.

[cynatnite]

102. Okay, I said I wasn't, but couldn't help myself...

Not all men are responsible mature adults...some are irresponsible dolts who could care less about the woman or the child they help create. There's enough of them that the government had no choice but to force them to pay child support.

Those mature responsible ones will pay without having to be forced. In an ideal world, that's how it should be. This is the real world and with those jerks who won't pay, there is no other option but to force them to do their duty in supporting a baby they helped create.

Okay, 'nuff said this time. I'm off to bed.

[joshcryer]

103. Yeah...

But because the government forces the man, then it really becomes the womans choice to force the man.

I just remembered a situation with my best friend and his ex. She got knocked up by another guy after they broke up, and her reason for having the child? "The guy will pay child support." My god what kind of world do we live in? This is a woman who is a waitress at a resturant not getting any kind of reasonable money at all. She's 20 years old. She has no life experience. She sleeps around and drinks all the time. Really, it's a dispicible situation if you ask me.

You have to realize that the guys who are being forced by the government to pay child support don't have the means to raise a child, and in fact, probably shouldn't be having a child in the first place.

If the government thought it was necessary to force all women to have babies you would not glaze over this issue so easily.

[Maddy McCall]

104. Excellent post, cynatnite

:thumbsup:

I think it's hillarious that some guys want to exploit the abortion debate by claiming that if a child is born, they should have the choice NOT to support it.

Un-fucking-believable the shit you can read at DU these days. :freak:

[joshcryer]

105. Hey, women have the choice not to support a fetus they're...

...carrying. It seems quite logical.

[cynatnite]

51. You take the chance of getting someone pregnant by having sex...

there is always a risk whether it's pregnancy or sexually transmitted disease. If you want to avoid and be 100% safe, don't have sex. It's as simple as that.

Be an adult and accept the responsibility of whatever happens as a result of sex.

It's depressing to see someone who wants their cake without the risk of getting fat.

[joshcryer]

52. I'm really surprised by the number of abstinance fans here on DU.

n/t

[cynatnite]

56. It's a matter of responsibility...

Know what the possible outcomes are if you are going to engage in sex. Be smart about it and be willing to take responsibility for whatever happens.

Abstinance is if you are looking for a 100% guarantee. Otherwise it's not there.

[joshcryer]

63. Birth control makes it a 99.9% guarantee.

I don't see what the big deal is. All I see are double standards.

[cynatnite]

66. antibiotics can kill the effectiveness of birth control pills..

condoms can break, sponge and other methods are less reliable.

Geez, wake up. You want the women to take the birth control and if they happen to get pregnant, wash your hands of the responsibility.

You want your cake without getting fat.

[joshcryer]

69. Nope, it is assumed that both parties mutually do not want a child.

If after the action of sex, and she gets pregnant, the women choses to have a child, it shouldn't be the mans responsibility. I want one simple thing. I don't want the government to tell me what to do. You don't want the government telling you that you cannot have abortions, so why do you think it's okay that the government tell me I should pay child support?

(Mind you this is ENTIRELY ideological, this has nothing to do with what I would do in the event I knocked someone up and she wanted the kid. I would take care of the woman and child in that event, I would feel morally obligated to do that, but I don't need the GOVERNMENT telling me what to do.)

[cynatnite]

72. Sex can result in pregnancy...

it usually requires two people with the common understanding shit can happen when they have sex. Pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

Knowing this, the couple need to not just take precautions, but also be able to accept responsibility for whatever results.

It takes two to make a kid and since it's the woman with the uterus the ultimate decision lies with her. She's the one that has to under go the procedure if she chooses abortion. If she doesn't, she's putting her life on the line to bring forth a human being and will provide majority of the care for at least 18 years.

Also, keep in mind there are men on this planet who could care less about the children they father. They have sex and walk away leaving the woman to agonize over the choice she should make and should she decide to have the baby, the one who helped CREATE it SHOULD take responsibility as well.

Don't let those men who spread their seed without a thought off the hook by saying the government shouldn't force them to pay child support. It's morally wrong and will cause far more damage than you're even aware...both financially and emotionally.

Children get treated like dirt as it is...let's not add to it by teaching them it's okay to have sex without responsibility.

[joshcryer]

75. Please, how many times have couples planned what would...

...happen in the event a pregnancy occured? Do you really have this view of the world where all couples sit down and talk about what their plans are? If you're using birth control the assumption should automatically be that neither one wants a child. That simple.

This is still about the government telling people what to do. You think it's not okay for the government to tell a women whether or not she can have an abortion, but it's fine and dandy for them to make a man pay.

[cynatnite]

79. sex requires being responsible...

if a pregnancy results from sex, and accidents do happen, both involved should take responsibility whether the woman chooses an abortion or carry it to term.

Mature couples should discuss it and do their best to plan for it.

It's not okay for the government to tell women what to do with their bodies.

It is fine and dandy to make men take responsibility for the part they play in creating a fetus.

A woman has to take responsibility either way...it's her body. She's the one who makes the choice and it's rarely an easy one. Why should men be let off the hook?

[joshcryer]

81. You're just spinning.

The argument stands. Government forces men to do something they don't want to do. Women are free (at least in 58 states) to absolve themselves of their mistakes, but men don't have that choice.

Sure people have responsiblity, but women have more choices as to what they can do. Men should have the same number of choices, and if they chose not to pay for a child, that is their business.

Except you are for the government forcing men to do what they don't want to do. Welcome to sexism.

[cynatnite]

84. A child pays the price should a man decide not to pay child support

I don't get why you think that's okay? This confuses me. If a man helps father a child, they have a responsibility to that child.

You're just giving the opening for men across this country to not pay child support. Geez, this amazes me that you would be so willing to absolve people of their responsibilities. You want to see children suffer from their fathers not paying child support. I don't get that.

It takes two to make a baby...and those two should take responsibility even if the woman chooses to have the baby against the man's wishes.

You're also avoiding one aspect of this. What if the woman wants an abortion, but the man doesn't. What if he wants her to have the baby so he can be a father. Should she be forced to carry it?

You want to move the line of responsibility farther to the mother so the father won't have any. You want to have sex freely without the consequences.

You're too immature for sex with these attitudes.

[joshcryer]

86. No she shouldn't be forced to carry it...

...at this level of technology. But if we could remove fetuses safely and grow them in a lab somewhere, would a women be justified in killing it? I bet your head is spinning around that prospect.

[cynatnite]

88. That may well be the only way you or any other man...

would get off the hook. Cross your fingers the technology comes along pretty soon.

[joshcryer]

91. Yeah, no more birth monopoly for women.

Hehehe

[cynatnite]

94. Funny...tell your mother that joke...

better yet, tell her that fathers shouldn't have to pay child support if they don't want to. I'm sure she'd love to hear that. Tell it to all the women you know and please...make sure the women you date know it.

:eyes:

[joshcryer]

97. Oh, I'd pay child support, and I'd happily support and children...

...I had. This is ideological, this isn't what I'd do. This is how I feel about government intervention. This is clearly a case of the government intervening in peoples LIVES. But you fail to see that.

[Djinn]

95. bad assumption

I started on the pill at 13, wasn't actually getting' any till I was 19, it's not just prescribed for contraception.

There's also the high chance that people don't WANT to get pregnant but don't feel comfortable with abortion, so they do what they can to avoid pregnancy but will not abort if it comes to that

I can see why people have issues with the fact that a woman can abort without any consent from the father but that he can be forced to pay for a child he doesn't want, but I honestly don't really see a way around it, it's not a femmo plot, it's BIOLOGY, and you have two choices, force a woman to abort (not so progressive) or deny the child, and the predicament is hardly jnr's fault.

In short, if I were a man, I'd accept biology and acknowledge that a pregnancy could occur and that I wont have much say in whether that pregnancy is brought to term and therefore not root like a bunny on heat, when I do make sure there's a large supply of condoms around or get a vasectomy - it's not really very fair but then again neither is being the gender that has to actually give birth - you don't think large numbers of us would GLADLY give that up?

[joshcryer]

98. Yeah, I know many a girl who take it to stop periods...

...yay technology. :)

[Maddy McCall]

106. It's sad that the state has to force some fathers to care for their living

children.

Really sad.

That said, your position has nothing to do with the abortion debate. I would suggest to you, though, that you be upfront with any potential dates about your "male rights" stance. I promise you, you won't have to worry about fathering any children--your upfront honesty is all the contraception you need.

[joshcryer]

107. It has everything to do with the abortion debate.

If a woman has the right to chose whether or not she is going to be a mother, I ought to have the right to chose whether or not I am going to be a father from a financial and emotional standpoint. Making this decision for both of us early on would be the fair thing to do.

Until then I'll just have to use condoms and hope they're effective until I can get on the pill for men. Oh well.

[Katherine Brengle]

39. Well, for a start, it would decrease even further the chance of...

contraceptive failure, if both partners were taking medication to prevent pregnancy. Honestly, a fluke of those proportions would be incredible--it would be like managing to get pregnant without having any reproductive organs, lol.

[LeftCoast]

40. I agree it would probably mean the need for fewer abortions but

that doesn't 'solve' the abortion issue. :shrug:

[joshcryer]

42. It solves the debates I've been reading about.

And I am not going to get into the debates myself, because they're quite depressing. Both sides have legitimate arguments.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

55. No, it doesn't solve the abortion issue

However there was a thread where a male rights group was trying to say if women had the right to abortion w/o a mans consent, they then wanted the right to not support any children they may spawn if they hadn't consented to its creation. It was an odd thread actually.

Some of us mentioned that perhaps these men should be working toward better male birth control. Rather than looking for ways to escape from the responsibility of children they've already created.

FWIW, an oral pill is still some 5 years from being marketed for men. However, they are on the brink of marketing a male birth control shot. It will have to be injected four times a year once every three months.

I think that if a man wants children down the road, but not right now, he should have more choices in his birth control, too. You guys deserve the same freedoms we have after all. :)

[Katherine Brengle]

71. Of course it doesn't, but it adds something to the equation...

as far as accountability goes.

[joshcryer]

78. EXACTLY. That's the best part.

No more damn excuses. See, what you guys, or well, what two posters in this thread don't get, is that I'm on your side. No more damn excuses MEN. The "condoms suck, they're not always available, etc" argument would not work in a world with male birth control. And plus, I expect the number of unwanted pregnancies to drop dramatically. Because yaknow, market it for "playahs," it'd be great.

[Katherine Brengle]

101. The only danger is...

a correlative rise in std transmission.

[sandnsea]

59. I think it's friggin' hysterical

The reality of all these babies starts to set in with the guys, and the fact that we've got DNA testing now, and suddenly they're yelling,

Give Me Male Birth Control!!!

God love 'em, it's a hoot.

[mike_c]

27. vasectomy, dammit....

It's easy, fast, and it works. Nobody needs to take hormones-- you know, it always amazes me when men are outraged about athletes taking steroid hormones but don't think twice about their girlfriends and wives doing it. Nobody can forget to take a pill. It won't malfunction. Vasectomy is the ultimate way for men to take responsibility for birth control and free their partners from worry. It makes sex simple-- or as simple as anything with such deep emotional roots can get, at least.

[joshcryer]

29. But not easily reversable.

Just stop taking the meds if you want to have a kid. No biggie.

[mike_c]

34. no need to reverse if....

If you think you'll want kids later, freeze some sperm first. Or do as I did, and have a vasectomy after deciding you don't want any MORE kids.

[Warpy]

31. I think it was withheld

partially due to a whole load of side effects that turned up in large scale testing and partially because they didn't think there would be much of a market for it.

Someone here suggested the male BC pill be marketed as a combination pill with Viagra. Now that one would SELL, side effects or not.

[DavidDvorkin]

33. I had a vasectomy many years ago.

I'm assuming everything's still blocked.

It's highly reliable, it's fairly simple and cheap, and you really don't notice any difference.

It wasn't all that pleasant at the time, and don't listen to anyone who tells you that it is. On the other hand, I had it done many years ago, and I'm sure the techniques have improved a lot.

[mike_c]

38. I had mine in 1980 and there was no "unpleasantness" at all....

Recovery was one day or so of minor tenderness at the incision itself. And I do mean minor-- it didn't impair my activity at all (but in fairness, I went fishing rather than bike riding). The actual procedure was absolutely painless, took about 30 minutes from start to finish, and the urologist and I kept up a running conversation the whole time. I seriously walked out amazed that I hadn't done it sooner.

[joshcryer]

48. I actually saw it being performed on the health channel.

It's really not that big of a deal, and I totally am not against it at all. Freezing the sperm is a viable option, I admit. But that requires, in the event I do want a child later on, going to a costly insemination place.

[DavidDvorkin]

53. I think mine was about the same time, and it did hurt

I had been told by other men that it wouldn't, so I was surprised and very unhappy.

However, I didn't take one of the drugs. The nurse, it turned out, misinformed me about what one of the pills did, so I declined it. (I can't even remember the details, but I do remember that much.) So I did feel a fair amount of what was being done.

Perhaps if I'd swallowed all of the drugs, it would have been a much better experience.

[mike_c]

58. bummer-- sounds like you had an atypical experience....

Although it's also worth mentioning that ANY sugical procedure done under local anesthetic depends to some extent on the skill of the doctor performing it. It's like having a tooth worked on-- some dentists are very good, and others could double at Abu Ghraib. I was referred to the doc that snipped my vas by a friend, and I subsequently referred others to him over the next couple of years. He did a great job. I'm actually rather shocked that your doctor let you experience pain during your operation-- I would think a good one would have responded by saying "Did you feel that? Lets give you a bit more anesthetic."

[DavidDvorkin]

61. Yes, I was surprised, too.

I did tell him I could feel it, more than once. He just kept on going.

He was recommended by my family doctor, but I had a bad feeling about the office. E.g., the nurse who prepped me had long fingernails! Real bacteria havens. There were other details that upset me quite a bit, including a major lack of thought given to privacy.

But of course, you're right. All of that can happen with any kind of surgery, and I was probably just unlucky.

[cynatnite]

64. Vasectomies are far easier on men than...

women getting their tubes tied. Women have to undergo a same day surgery at the hospital. When I was in the army and assisted in vasectomies, it was done in the clinic.

I had my tubes tied right after my third delivery and afterwards hurt almost as much as the c-section I had with the second baby.

[Katherine Brengle]

35. You guys should start your own movement--

I am serious--that is how women got the right to birth control--by standing in the street and demanding it.

I am all for it--I actually asked one of my good male friends today if he would take a bc pill if they came out with one for men, and he said hell yeah.

Imagine the effectiveness of BOTH partners being on "the pill"--it would be a great step toward eliminating unwanted pregnancies altogether.

[joshcryer]

45. Definitely. I remember reading about it. "The pill" was funded...

...by feminist groups. It was amazing, this little biography I read behind the issue. But right now I think that they're working on it, and I don't think the demand will be very high, but certainly having the choice will be a good thing.

[Katherine Brengle]

73. I think that if someone organized and started...

really talking to men about this, there might be more support AND demand than we think.

Granted, men can't get pregnant, but they are still responsible for the children they father, so this should be an important issue to all men.

[kevinbgoode]

43. Hon...they are going after the right to use contraception next

the only hope you have is to stay abstinent until marriage. . .that's what the Taliban have ordered for America.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. Damn straight. Another thing that is ridiculous about all this

is that, for the most part, the technology, and the options, for birth control haven't changed substantially- for either gender- in forty years.

That's because there's very little research, and you have fundies, control freaks and anti-sex zealots all over these aspects of our society like a bad set of lights on a Christmas tree. Wanna know something frightening? One of the justifications W. David Hager gave for opposing the FDA approval process for Plan B contraception (The "Morning after" pill) was that it had the potential to cause similar social effects to what happened when the bc pill was made available..

what that means is, according to W. David Hager, if the pill came before the FDA today, they wouldn't approve it.

[DanCa]

60. Or men could just look at pictures of Jean Schmidt

That'll kill the mood real quick :D

[Fleshdancer]

82. I'm skeptical of this article....

Don't get me wrong, a male bc would be great and I'm all for it but the claims made by the article seem outrageous. 100% effective? The Pill has been around for what, 40+ years now and even they can not claim a 100% effectiveness rate. Plus, this pill is suppose to have a high effective rate and not alter a man's hormonal level in any way? How? If this truly is possible for men, then why can't this be possible for women?

However, I'm not a doctor so wtf do I know? lol.

On a more hopeful note, if indeed the male bc is as incredible as this article says, I wonder if this means they could also come up with a "morning before" pill...the same concept of the "morning after" pill which is sort of like a higher dosage of the regular Pill.

I haven't read this entire thread but I assume someone has brought up the point of "how would you know he was taking the male Pill?" and the counter argument would be "well how do you know the woman is taking her bc?". My solution would be to have everyone stop taking medicine in pill form and start using the birth control patch. I bet a whole industry of bc patch decorations would pop up because of it. Make it a fashion statement. :)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

85. I feel they're singing it's praises because they're don't want men looking

non-hormonal injectables such as RISUG. It's supposed to be safer and more effective, it takes blocks sperm within one hour, unlike hormones which can take weeks to reach the required level and last for many years.


http://www.alternet.org/story/17432/

Herein lies the problem: RISUG may be too effective. Pharmaceutical companies are pouring millions into research on male contraceptives, particularly the male version of the pill, but none is interested in RISUG.

"What does a hormonal contraceptive represent to a pharmaceutical company?" Weiss asks. "Recurrent sales. It's like women's birth control. They sell it over and over and over again. They want something they can make an ongoing profit from. Business is business."

RISUG renders a man infertile for six to 15 years; on the Indian market, it'll cost about $500 for the injection. In contrast, the average American woman spends between $3,000 and $4,000 every 10 years for birth control pills. Even though RISUG might be a promising contraceptive, pharmaceutical companies would lose money on it. It takes about 10-15 years and costs anywhere from $20 million to $70 million to bring a contraceptive method through research, development and final approval for marketing by the Food and Drug Administration.

"To be fair, pharmaceutical companies are in the business of making money and answering to their shareholders," Weiss says. "It's physicians who are looking for what's best for their patients. I don't blame big business. Hormones -- that's where all the research and money is."
<snip>
********************************************

I guess that could also be taken to mean hormones -- that's where all the profit money is.

Now, if a guy tells me he's snipped or taking BC that's fine and dandy. But He's still wearing a condom before we do any dancing between the sheets. I think these are designed more for a guys protection against unwanted pregnancy.

[carolinalady]

83. Snip, snip n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

108. Homosexuality

No accidental pregnancies and planned families! :) (plus it's fun!)

[joshcryer]

109. I'll admit I like a little backdoor action...

...just not with an actual penis, thanks! Hah. Cute response. :)

[Behind the Aegis]

110. LOL!

I was hoping it would get a laugh. I wasn't meaning to demean the issue of birth control, but, I thought I would inject a little levity. :)

[joshcryer]

111. Thanks, you made my night!

I think I need to take a couple of day break from DU, it's kind of bringing me down. It's not that I don't like to be disagreed with, but the hostility just brings me down. I'm not usually a jerk, and I got jerky in this thread a lot, which is not me.

But yeah, thanks for the comment, it was my favorite one in this thread. :)

[Behind the Aegis]

112. Yea for me!!!

I like making people laugh!

There is nothing wrong with taking a break. Many of us do for a variety of reasons. The number of members here is equal to the size of a minor city. Even though we are all supposedly (we all know trolls are lurking about) Democrats, liberals, whatever...we can't always agree. Sometimes, the worst in us is brought out by our own 'kind.'

Take a break...come back...our battle is far from over! Although, I wish we would expend our hostility toward those who are really trying to destroy our nation and not those who are trying to save it. But, life is complicated.

This is soooooo cheesy...but here is another male for choice:



If you take a break...enjoy it. I have to remind myself, often, life is too short here to be so angry. When you come back...if you need a laugh...let me know! :)