Castro/Cuba Upset Over Baseball Incident

[New Government]

As much as we need drastic change here in the USA, I have never fallen for those who look to Cuba as an example. While I admire some of the social progress, the totalitarian boot is worse than anything in the United States. Check out the latest:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1710364

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico Mar 10, 2006 (AP)— While Cuba played the Netherlands in the World Baseball Classic, a spectator in the stands raised a sign saying: "Down with Fidel," sparking an international incident that escalated Friday with the velocity of a major league fastball.

The image of the man holding the sign behind home plate was beamed live Thursday night to millions of TV viewers including those in Cuba. The top Cuban official at the game at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan rushed to confront the man. Puerto Rican police quickly intervened and took the Cuban official Angel Iglesias, vice president of Cuba's National Institute of Sports to a nearby police station, where they lectured him about free speech.

"We explained to him that here the constitutional right to free expression exists and that it is not a crime," police Col. Adalberto Mercado was quoted as saying in El Nuevo Dia, a San Juan daily.

The brouhaha gathered steam Friday when Cuba's Communist Party newspaper, Granma, called the sign-waving "a cowardly incident." Cuba's Revolutionary Sports Movement exhorted Cubans to demonstrate in Havana late Friday, saying U.S. and Puerto Rican authorities were involved in "the cynical counterrevolutionary provocations."

A sign. At a baseball game.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[New Government]

5. I looked

and didn't see it posted. How is it "telling"? If I post something against Cuba, I must be a Republican? Weird logic. I simply think that this story is another example of power that corrupts. Cuba, USA, Russia....absolute power corrupts, absolutely. Sorry to offend you!

[ret5hd]

7. here's how the fbi prevents this from happening with anti-bush signs...

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1711158&page=1

[rinsd]

14. How is that?

I didn't see anything saying no signs. I might have missed it though.

I do know that many arenas and ballparks have no political sign policies (politics of any kind).

[Lefty48197]

31. It's about seven pages back on the "latest" pages.

Not shocking that you didn't see the earlier post.
Fuck you Fidel.

[rinsd]

12. Have some stones and come out and call someone a freeper...

which is kind of funny since this is not a dupe, there is one thread in Latest Breaking and one in the GD.

Your reaction to the OP is more telling than anything the OP did.

[malaise]

2. How would the security at an international sporting event

anywhere in the US if a fan held up a sign Down with Bush.

[New Government]

8. I have done it!

I did it at a Wizards game about a month ago! Do you not protest with signs ever? Did you get thrown in jail? I didn't either.

[Swamp Rat]

3. ¡Viva Fidel! ... ¡Viva Cuba Libre!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Tom Joad]

4. Castro should know better. Now if it were

a sign at a SF Giant's game (fully prohibited) then we would understand the reason for the sign-carring person being arrested and charged.

[New Government]

6. Wow!

I am surprised at the reaction. I hate Bush and I think America is fast moving towards a police state. But what's all this support for FIDEL? Maybe I am at the wrong place if I must be a Castro-loving brand of Democrat to post here without attacks. I'm a bit taken aback.

[Tom Joad]

10. I think it is the hypocrisy that we are countering, not

endorsing all of Castro's actions.

After all, the United States is fully engaged in human rights violations on the island of cuba. Not to mention the rest of the planet.

[New Government]

11. Sooo...

With that logic, everytime we point out something bizzare from another country, we must mention that WE do dumb stuff too? Every other post we make is about OUR dumb stuff. How dare I mention another country acting stupid without stipulating that America is stupid too. Sorry, but that's weird logic to me.

[malaise]

18. You don't get it

the rest of the world is sick of your double standards. Bush has destroyed any credibility the US had re human rights or democracy. He and his goons have violated international law, murdered thousands of people in their homeland, spied and lied to his own people.

[rinsd]

22. So what? It isn't Bush or the US gov't making the critique

This isn't some zero sum game where if Cuba is bad the US becomes better or vice versa.

And the whole glass houses thing? I must have missed your castigating of Fidel for criticizing Bush assuming you actually hold to that principle.

Personally, I really don't care what Bush or Fidel say about each other as I think they're both assholes.

[proud patriot]

24. Hi and welcome New Government

you don't have to like Castro to post at
Democratic Underground

[Lefty48197]

32. The sign carrying guy was not arrested

The Cuban guy that confronted him was taken away by the police and they explained free speech to him.

[Renew Deal]

9. "Cuba's Revolutionary Sports"

:wtf: is so revolutionary about their sports?

[New Government]

13. I am a left-leaning Libertarian

I'm a lefty Libertarian who votes DEMOCRAT 95% of the time. I get attacked for pointing out how repressive government can be sometimes because it's Cuba. I FAILED to point out (in this post, at least) that the USA can be a bad place too - so that makes me "suspect."

I just learned a lot about Democratic Underground. Maybe there's no room for those of us that hate ALL repression. Here, there and everywhere.

Christ!!

[rinsd]

15. Relax....

People tend to be suspicious of new people and the reality is that rwers do "infiltrate" here.

I would give it some time before you take on hot button issues as the thread starter, you'll get shit just because of your post count.

Take care and welcome to DU.

[New Government]

16. Thanks - advice well taken....nt

[Loge23]

17. Free speech works both ways

"The top Cuban official at the game at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan rushed to confront the man. Puerto Rican police quickly intervened and took the Cuban official Angel Iglesias, vice president of Cuba's National Institute of Sports to a nearby police station, where they lectured him about free speech."

Nice. That's awful kind of the Puerto Rican officials. Just to hammer in our point about "free speech, we'll take him into the cooler and give him a refresher course!
If it's OK to hold up the sign (and it is, of course) than it's OK to be confronted by someone who doesn't agree.

[rinsd]

20. "confronted by someone who doesn't agree"

When that person is an official of the government you are protesting?

[NoAmericanTaliban]

19. Welcome to DU. I enjoyed your post.

[tkmorris]

21. Am I missing something?

I would have rather seen the Cuban officials just ignore the man with the sign but I don't see any reference to indicate that they did anything other than disagree with him. Puerto Rico officials on the other hand detained the Cuban official and lectured him about free speech before letting him go.

What did Cuba do wrong here again?

[rinsd]

23. Cuban officals sat right behind the man (apprently)

(qualifier, these photos were posted on an anti-Castro website)







"What did Cuba do wrong here again?"

You would find nothing wrong with an official of the US government taking personal issue with a protester and personally confronting them in another country? The mind boggles.

On edit: I do want to add that I did find it ironic that the Cuban officials were taken to a police stattion to explain what freedom of speech is.

[tkmorris]

26. Well, like I said

I'd rather they had ignored him, but simply confronting him is not exactly Gestapo-like. If they did anything other than disagree with him they stepped out of line. So far though, I have seen no reference that they did.

[rinsd]

27. See Espn's article....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/news/story?id=2361986

"Cuba unsuccessfully tried to get the fan's sign removed, and in protest, the Cuban team did not participate in the post-game news conference.

<snip>

Pat Courtney, vice president of public relations for Major League Baseball, told ESPN " feel they have done everything they can to play in the tournament, and they'd like this request honored, and it's upsetting to them ... but they have no recourse."

And no its not quite the Gestapo, but the reactions to this are interesting vs. if Bush had done this.

[Mika]

29. I know the guy who runs therealcuba.com

Whackjob freeper.

He was in full support of the Taliban (for being anti commie, no matter what their policies toward free speech, women's rights, etc, were).

Then came 9-11. He changed his tune fast.

[rinsd]

30. And that's why I have qualified any and all reference to them...

...but they actually posted the guy's story supposedly in his own words. So even taken with a huge grain of salt I thought it was worth it for people to try to get the whole picture.

[Mika]

33. Ok. Cool. Thanks.

:hi:

--

One has to admit that Cuban security has to be on guard against Miamicuban exile wingnuts who might want to create a diversion for some "activity". They do have a history.





click on the pic to find out why

[Postman]

25. So what's the difference between this incident and Bush's intolerance?

..of dissent?

People are arrested for wearing certain T-shirts in the United States.

People are arrested in the United States for yelling at elected officials in a public arena.

The hypocrisy of the United States is disgusting

[rinsd]

28. self delete...basically repeating myself

[Lefty48197]

34. Hey, at least we have "free speech zones"

try that in Cuba or China!

[Mika]

35. I've seen protests in Cuba with my own eyes.

Anti government protests I'm talking about. Nothing happened to anyone (as long as they are not aiding or abetting the declared enemies of the Cuban state).

Cuba is nothing like the Cubaphobic propaganda most Americans are inculcated with.


The anti government organizations that are busted up are those on the declared enemy of the Cuban state payroll (IOW, on the US gov and Miamicuban exile terra groups payroll).