Did you know that Iran has submarines???

[lovuian]

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/may2005-daily/11-05-2005/world/w10.htm

TEHRAN: Iran on Tuesday officially launched the production of its first locally built submarine, a craft capable of operating stealthily, state-run television reported. Defence Ministry spokesman Mohammad Imani was quoted as saying "the enemy would not be able to detect the submarine." He did not elaborate.

One submarine has apparently already been built and was shown on television on Tuesday, cruising at sea level. The Defence Ministry has commissioned an unspecified number of the craft that’s been dubbed "Ghadir." Ghadir is a site in the Arabian Peninsula that’s holy to Shias, the overwhelming majority of Iran’s 69 million people.

The submarine, which is capable of operating in the Persian Gulf and Oman seawaters, can launch both missiles and torpedoes at the same time, the television reported, without specifying the range of the projectiles.

more...
So how in the world are we going to stop Iran by bombing when they have a submarine??? and so does North Korea???

[evlbstrd]

1. They have a modern Navy.

Why are you surprised? Did you think they used rafts?

[lovuian]

2. I've only heard about their land forces never their navy???

Ya I was surprised to they have aircraft carriers and destroyers too
and how many???

[madokie]

3. The Iranians are a proud people. think back to ww2 and see what

proud people are capable of.

[madrchsod]

4. this is their first production sub but i bet it`s

based on a licensed german design. most second trier subs are of german design or rebuilt german subs and even the israeli navy uses german subs. the gulf is a pretty crowded place-iranian ,us, and russian subs all keeping an eye on each other...

[Nailzberg]

5. With all the shipping out there, you need a Navy.

There's pirates in those waters.

I think they bought a couple Kilos from Russia in the 90s. But this is their first locally produced sub so I don't have much confidence in her stealthiness. We'll have an Los Angeles class on it's ass ten minutes after it hits the water.

The Iranian Navy was in quite a state of disrepair in the 80's and 90's, but they have been modernizing. Not that they are any match for us, but neither were the Vietnamese.

[Zinfandel]

6. Gee, we spend more on weapons, military technology, and the military

in general than the rest of the world combined (as we are going broke) pushing FEAR!

Don't think there's much of a threat against our navy, marines, air force & army...They aren't going to attack us.

They have a right to protect their oil fields...or is it only for non Muslim countries & non oil producing nations to have that right?

No one would be stupid enough to attack us...Only - BushCo, and the media who loves war are trying to induce a threat......We have thousands of nuclear warheads...And BushCo, unfortunately, is itching...One must get real.

[tech3149]

7. Forget the submarines

Do you know about the Sunburn missiles? Supersonic sub-radar missiles that could shut down the Straits of Hormuz? If they do that the price of oil worldwide would go through the roof. Think about the timing, Iran stated over a year ago that they planned to establish an oil bourse based on the euro that would go into effect March 20. About four years ago Saddaam Hussein was planning to do the same thing. What happened March 19, 2003? I remember because that was my political re-awakening. Forget what they say, pay attention to what they do. They'll launch another assault against Iran even if some Tired Old Fart like me knows they can't "win". They'll do it because that's what they believe in. I believe in what I can see and measure against history and experience. Iran is three times the ize of Iraq with at least twice the population. They have not been under UN sanctions for the past 15? years. They haven't been bombed in the north and south for the last decade. If we(the US) attack Iran, we won't just break our bank but we'll be a threat to the financial security of the whole world. We pissed in our pants when we defined the "axis of evil".

Don't mind my rant, it's late and I've ad a few.

Jeff

[lovuian]

8. Rant away Jeff You make some damn good points

damn good ones!!!

[Xithras]

11. The SeaRAM can take out the Sunburn.

The Sunburn isn't the same threat today that it was a few years ago. We now have the SeaRAM to counter it, and if Iran tried to shut down the straits we'd just set up SeaRAM patrols to protect the area (SeaRAMs are deck mounted on Naval ships).

But yeah, I do agree that we wouldn't beat Iran in a war. Look at the hell we're dealing with in Iraq, and understand that it's a thinly populated nation that was already crippled by sanctions, and that had no defensible terrain. Iran has a modern military, highly defensible terrain, a much larger population, and enough international support to ruin any chances the chickenhawks might have at a quick victory. It would be an incredibly stupid war to get into.

[PFunk]

13. Not to disagree with you but...

After doing some quick research I found that the SeaRAM anit the missile that it's cracked up to be. Meaning that it may not be all that effective against the Sunburn. Especially if Russian has given it some of it's updated Sunburns designed to better counter the SeaRAM (which I very highly doubt). Still Iran seems to have enough Sunburns to just overwhelm the SeaRAM systems. After all it' only takes one or two to sink a ship. This combined with alot of other factors make getting into a fight with Iran, like you mention a stupid propersiton.

Inshort I think within 10 yrs Isreal will no longer be the only nation with nukes. The whole entire region will be a nuke zone as many countries find some way of getting nukes of their own not only to counter isreal but also the US.

Thanky you George (you butthead).

[Nailzberg]

21. They're only believed to have obtained 8-16 of the Sunburns

While the SeaRAM would be highly effective against them, you have to figure a few hit thier mark. I don't think Iran could effectively shut down shipping in the Gulf with 16 Sunburns, and I doubt they would use them for anything except repelling an attack from the US, that what they were designed for, and that's what they were purchased for. The casualties we are seeing in Iraq are nothing compared to what we would take attacking Iran.

[Solo_in_MD]

19. Finally some one else understands the weaknesses in the

"unbeatable sunburn" arguments.

[Nailzberg]

12. I was just reading up on the USN retiring the last Tomcats.

And something relevant to this topic came up. Iran is now the only country in the world that deploys the F-14. They only have a few, but I just love being reminded of how we constantly arm countries and then decide they are evil.

[PFunk]

14. So the F-14 is no longer taking the A-6 intruders place then?

If not what is, the F-18?

[Nailzberg]

17. FA-18s taking their place

The last two squadrons of F-14s are with carrier air wing 8 on the Roosevelt, which has just returned home.

Training on the hornet starts next month, and one squadron of Tomcats will remain until September, but the fly-off from the carrier to NAS Oceana was the last operational flight for the Tomcat in the USN.

The reason - maintenance on the Hornet is not only cheaper, but you don't have to train mechanics on two different platforms, which happens to be the same logic Southwest Airlines uses for only operating 737s.

[Solo_in_MD]

18. Not what happened

F-14 did finally get a limited ability to drop bombs, but was never effective in that role. It was never anywhere near the truck that the A-6 was. F/A-18 is the primary air to air (ala the F-14) and air to mud (ala the A-6) platform in naval aviation today.

[Nailzberg]

20. Good catch, you're right about that.

I was responding to the SuperHornets taking over for the Tomcats, and didn't even correct that Intruder-Tomcat comparison. Which there is no comparison. The intruder was a workhorse, slow and vulnerable, but such an exceptional platform for a naval bomber. It passed it's duties onto the FA18.

F14 were developed as defensive aircraft. They were tasked with defending the fleet against Soviet aircraft. The F14 is still arguably the better fleet defender, but with the reduced threat from Russia, the high maintenance costs, and the versatility of the SuperHornet, it's time to put the Tomcat out to pasture. The FA18 can adequately serve both roles until the JSF comes online, at which point avaiation buffs will blow our noses about the SuperHornet being retired.

I thought the Tomcats were going to be in service until 2010, but I guess they speed up the changeover.

[Xithras]

9. They're Russian Kilo's...diesel electrics.

There was some discussion a few years back when Russia struck the deal with the Iranians. These things can deal a hell of a lot of damage, but they're hobbled by a fairly short submerged range. It's also a 25+ year old design, so US sonar doesn't have much trouble detecting them.

The big issue is that in a small, enclosed area like the Persian Gulf, these things can sneak out of port, deal a ton of damage, and then run for port again before our subs have a chance to intercept them. Their submerged range may be short, but they don't have to go far.

The real danger here is for Israel. Iran could park a couple of these off the Israeli coast undetected, and rain missiles on Israel with no warning if conflict ever broke out between them. The Israeli's don't have the technology to intercept and destroy an attack sub like this BEFORE it launches its missiles.

[Zinfandel]

10. So let's instigate, cuz Israel...feels threatened?

And when don't they? However, still, seems a bit of a manipulation though...or perhaps that dastarly euro might have a lot to do with the semantics of it all...

Shoot those rockets, (missiles), from the old F-14's and protect what is yours. Cuz we will indeed take it!

Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Rove are having a great laugh.

OIL!

[obxhead]

15. Iran and WMD's from them are a zero threat to the US.

period.

[Cascadian]

16. A U.S.- Iranian war would be devastating.

Our armed forces are already depleted and a war with Iran would for sure create a draft. Iran has built their military up since after the war with Iraq. That submarine proves they are preparing for a war.


John