Ed Schultz Show: Clark on Iraq...very detailed analysis and recommendation

[Clarkie1]

Ed Schultz: General Wesley Clark here on the Ed Schultz Show. We sure appreciate it. Let's talk about Iraq. What is the definition of a civil war? Some people say we're in a civil war. Others say no it's not there yet. You as a military man and your training and your expertise, what is it?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, a civil war is just when neighbors fight against each other, but it's hard to say that we're not in a civil war by that standard. But the question is, you know, how, how intense is it? What's the outcome likely to be? How long will it- How, how damaging will it be, and, and, and will it grow to bring in the neighboring powers? Those are the questions that have to be asked. I think in Iraq, we've got a choice between a C- solution and an F solution. The F solution is pull out right now. Just tell them that's up, that's it we're fed up with you. You're not cooperating with us, and we've done enough. We're leaving. The end result of that is gonna be that the Shi'ite dominated military police and militias will seize control, drive the remaining vestiges of hopefulness out of the Sunnis, isolate the Sunnis. And the Sunnis will go to the Saudis, the Jordanians and others for support, and they'll fight to gain a foothold back into Iraq. That's the civil war that will spread to other countries in the region.

Ed Schultz: And then what happens to the United States military if that unfolds? What'll we do?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, we'll have to do something to dampen the conflict as best we can, if we're there. But the F solution is when we leave. Now the C- solution is we lean on top of the folks there in Iraq with everything we've got. We tell that Shi'ite President Hakim that he must change the constitution. He must allow Sunni leaders into responsible positions. He must crack down on and eliminate the Shi'ite militias. When he doesn't do it, you use leverage against him. You slow down the training of the troops. You slow the arrival of supplies. You re-deploy forces. You prepare to take other measures. And this is not going to be accomplished just by jawboning. If you do all this, there's a chance you could still pull together an Iraqi state. It wouldn't be a Western-oriented state. It won't be a US-style Democracy and it won't probably represent the hope of Democracy in the region. But it would be a state that probably won't threaten it's neighbors right away, and it might be a state that you could pull US forces out of without having it blow up.

Ed Schultz: Well, I was going to ask you finally, John Murtha, does his re-deployment idea have merit-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: No.

Ed Schultz: -at this point. You, you-

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Not, not in and of itself. Hopefully we will re-deploy, and hopefully if we can get the Sunnis in government, change the constitution, it's possible that you'll be able to pull out a lot of troops. But to drive US strategy by the recognition that our Armed Forces are failing, the men are tired, doesn't seem to have worked very well, let's just go home, that's a real admission of failure. That's the F solution.

Ed Schultz: Some people would call you a tough Democrat, General.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, I, I think I'm realistic in terms of... look, we have interests in this region. Those interests are the welfare of our men and women in uniform. They're stability for the world's sources of supply of a lot of the oil. There's the expansion of trade. There's protection of freedom in the region, including our association with the state of Israel. Those interests are not changed when we pull out US troops, except for the fact that you've got the troops out of the war zone. That's the only interest that's changed. The other interests remain, and you may find that it's even more difficult to work those interests when you've lost the use of troops on the ground in Iraq. So, it's not a matter of whether you're tough or, or not tough. it's simply a matter of whether or not you understand the realities in the region.

Ed Schultz: General, I got to ask you this, 'cause you were a Presidential candidate. Do you want to weigh in on this port deal? The American people don't want it, but is the President right or wrong on this?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well the truth is, George Bush scared the American people half to death about, about Arabs, and now it's come back to haunt him. But the real issue is not who owns the ports, it's whether they're secure or not. And this administration hasn't done nearly enough to secure the ports, and it needs to. If we knew what we needed to do to secure the ports, we'd be less concerned about who owns them.

Ed Schultz: Triple w.securingamerica.com is the website for General Wesley Clark. Thats securingamerica.com, and we are going to be forever indebted to you, General, for helping us get on Armed Forces Network. I appreciate it very much.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Thank you so much.

Ed Schultz: You bet.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Bye, Ed.

Ed Schultz:: You bet. General Wesley Clark here, on the Ed Schultz Show.

Link to audio and full transcript here (he also discusses Iran)
www.securingamerica.com