WTF?

[Catherine Vincent]

Walt Starr tombstoned? I was going to ask if anyone has seen his posts lately, but I did a search first and clicked on his profile. Anyone know what happened?

[CrazyOrangeCat]

1. WTF????

He posted yesterday afternoon, I think. Or maybe it was Thursday. He was remarking on the mole that outed himself.

[Obamarama]

2. Wow...whoda thunk it?

[murielm99]

3. This ain't right. nt

[Mikimouse]

4. He specifically asked Skinner to Tombstone him...n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

5. I was just going to say that maybe he's one of those that wanted to

be tombstoned and take a break. Bummer!

[Skittles]

9. do you mean to break an addiction?

you don't have to be tombstoned to take a break! :o

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

29. No it seemed that he was angry.

[lonestarnot]

97. Well who the hell isn't? If you're not, you're not paying attention!

[MadisonProgressive]

This is the one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2507034

[lonestarnot]

98. well holy crap!

[im10ashus]

105. Careful what you ask for...

and how you ask for it. :shrug:

[bottomofthehill]

22. Ask and you shall recieve

[mmonk]

67. Wow

I couldn't do that. I leave the world of propaganda and darkness for discussion and knowledge here.

[Swede]

6. Here's what happened.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2507034

[MrSlayer]

8. Any idea what lead up to this?

What the hell happened?

[Synnical]

11. Yeah, what happened???

[Swede]

15. He was continually posting his support for a Third party.

Skinner kept locking the threads.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

31. I discuss that meta-issue here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2507242&mesg_id=2507242

[EFerrari]

34. You know, I just saw that. And I guess what I think is,

I agree about reform.

I just got nailed, rightfully, by a DUer on another thread for being angry. I guess I am angry. These last six years have been excruciating.

And now, on to managing every day . . .

[benburch]

36. We just need to get up each day and put in something for the cause.

That is all we can ever do, of course, but it is easy to forget.

[EFerrari]

44. That's right. Keep it simple. n/t

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. Angry with other DU people?

I can understand rage and frustration with Fuckface and his thugs, but angry with DUers?

Or did I read you wrong?

These last years have sucked for everyone. How have we survived, I wonder, and aren't we wonderful?

[EFerrari]

42. Not angry with DUers. Just effen ANGRY. It doesn't

surprise me that Walt had to have a showdown. I'm deleting more than I post most days.

Some would call that judicious editing. :P

It's going to get messy as the year wears on. We better all put bibs on.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

46. Why?

I sort of understand, but, really, I don't.

I admire your restraint, truly.

But, why do you think it's "going to get messy"?

I always wear a condom, by the way. Just in case............... ;)

[EFerrari]

48. Lol. Well, the combo of being six years into an armed

struggle with fascists and an upcoming election may not fit on the plate very well.

Tired people aren't always the diplomats they should be.

Keep your cat handy.

lol

/spellin'

[OldLeftieLawyer]

57. This isn't a job for the pussycat;

it's time to call out the Insane Heavy-Duty Machinery Operator Bunny:



Feel better?

[EFerrari]

59. This is what Norman Mailer still sees in the mirror.

:rofl:

[Hekate]

86. Gee, I thought I was the only one deleting great swathes of prose

:-)

Hekate

[EFerrari]

88. No, I'm deleting and guess many are.

We're the Mr/s Cleans of DU.

:)

[MrSlayer]

32. I see.

Well, he was asking for it. Too bad.

[American liberal]

107. yeah, but what precipitated it?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

7. Yup. IBTL. Here's the link. He asked to be tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2507034

[ContraBass Black]

13. Right the fuck now, indeed.

There was a lounge thread laughing at it earlier.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nailzberg]

10. He broke down.

I remember Walt from years ago. It's been awhile since I've been active on the Underground. But from my searches of his postings, it seems Walt was frustrated at not only the Democrats lack of unity, but the Dems inability to pose a solid front against the right wing. Dem's can't be united the way Repubs can. It's just our nature as a progressive party. We are a splintered party because we present difference of opinion in our policies.

But yesterday, Walt told Skinner to tombstone him "right the fuck now". And Skinner can't let such a challenge go unopposed and still maintain order on the DU, so he tombstoned him.

While I may not agree with everything Walt Starr said, he always brought something to the debate, and I respect him for that. Unfortunately he gave into the frustrations we all feel right now. Maybe he will come back to DU. I don't know.

[Synnical]

16. Walt "broke down" - oh that's funny n/t

[Nailzberg]

26. Well, come on. He's always been a loose cannon, but...

asking Skinner to "tombstone me right the fuck now" obviously shows he reached the breaking point. Like I said, I didn't always agree with the guy, but he did make some points, obeyed the rules of the forum, and brought his game in a debate.

I respect him even if I didn't agree with him.

He was reasonable most the time, even if I didn't agree with his reasoning.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

35. I had some exchanges with him

that were bizarre. He was, in his mind, a very good lawyer because his wife is a lawyer. It got odd, and I finally had to put him on "ignore." He was relentless, and he was wrong.

It strikes me as a supreme act of ego to do that sort of thing on a board, asking to be tombstoned.

I mean, if you're quitting, just go. This is far too martyr-ish for me. You want your own forum, put up your own website.

[Catherine Vincent]

39. You put someone on ignore?

I can't believe that! :hi:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

40. :::: staring at screen :::::

<ignore>

heh heh heh

[benburch]

51. The ignore button keeps me out of lots of trouble!!!

There are Some People whose postings usually fill me with such rage that I start a flame war...

When I find that happening, that person gets put on Ignore.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

56. Yep, you can see it coming

I've instituted my real-life rule - "One Strike And You're Out" - which has served me so well for so long. It's working very nicely on DU.

Not worth the agita.

[Catherine Vincent]

62. So far I have never put anyone on ignore.

It's probably because I'm not good at debating. Hopefully no one has me on ignore.

[FredStembottom]

76. Hey, has anyone put ME on "ignore"?????

Oh, wait....take me off "ignore" for a second so you can see my questi..............

Oh, wait......ummmm..........

[benburch]

77. LOL!

In Ignore Space, nobody can hear you scream.

[EFerrari]

79. If an Ignored Tree falls

:rofl:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

91. Did you say something?

heh heh heh

[Mythsaje]

73. I go by the rule I used to on AOL...

I don't ignore people, and I'll argue a subject into the ground if I have to...if they want to ignore ME, more power to 'em. I don't run from a debate UNLESS I get too emotionally involved in it. Which, thankfully, doesn't happen very often. The last time it did I walked away from the forum I was posting on and came here. I just couldn't handle the righties any more. They were driving me nuts.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

92. I'll get into a serious exchange with someone here

if they know what they're talking about and are making points in a coherent, cogent way. And, yes, that's for me to decide. Once it gets personal - as in, "I'll bet you're a lousy lawyer in real life" (my personal favorite) - they're propelled out into IgnoreLand, never to be seen or heard from again.

It's the issues, not the personae.

And, by the way, you're all on Ignore now.

heh heh heh

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Very Well Put.

[Nailzberg]

49. I mean, if you're quitting, just go.

"I mean, if you're quitting, just go. This is far too martyr-ish for me. You want your own forum, put up your own website."


Agreed.

[MisterP]

12. this happened before, I think

[TomInTib]

14. This was one of those situations that needed a forum..

Walt Starr was a valuable entity here, a balance.

I think it was a battle of egos (screw the rules, did we write them as a community or did they come from a single source?).

Walt Starr may have pushed it, but he will be sorely missed.

This whole thing could have been handled with a lot more maturity (on both sides of the issue).

I would prefer to believe that Democratic Underground would be a little more inclusive and not so knee-jerk reactive.

And that is what I fucking think.

Tom

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Well, they were granting his wish.

Walt should have taken some time off, imo instead of asking to be tombstoned.

[Erika]

21. Yep. Agreed - We're in for interesting times here from now

through the election.

[troubleinwinter]

19. I did enjoy his posts, if I didn't always agree.

I enjoyed his posts BECAUSE of that.

Funny thing is, I FOUND DU because of posts he made on another site a year and a half ago... it's how I came to be here.

Too bad he demanded his own tombstoning.

[K8-EEE]

69. Is Skinner Supposed To Be Like "Oh NOOO I Won't..."

I think anybody who throws a tantrum ending in "tombstone me," I say, "OK, buh bye!" WS was being a drama queen IMO.

And people who troll around here looking to defect people to any party, be it GOP or Green or whatever, are abusing the forum which is for DEMOCRATS.

[EFerrari]

72. Hmmmmmm. The rules say, progressives are welcome.

If I keep reading these wacko claims of Greens trolling, lol, I'll be asking Skinner for the night canopy.

You know, Walt lost his temper. That happens to people. Maybe everybody will calm down and get over it. There's a lot we need to do besides shred each other.

[mistertrickster]

95. Agreed. We should ask Skinner for fairness, not for weakness.

This website was not set up to provide a forum for third parties. The Democratic party may overlap with the Greens and even the Libertarians at times, but they can start their own websites if they want to.

The present form of the Democratic Party is far from perfect, and we all know that. But to say that it is so bad that the only alternative is some wacked and futile third party is not viable.

Or even worse, to say that Democrats are "just as bad as Republicans" because they didn't fight the invasion of Iraq enough is wholly absurd. Democrats were not the reason the US invaded Iraq, THEY weren't the reason Katrina victims were left to die, THEY weren't the reason our national debt has doubled since Carter and hit a new national high, THEY weren't the reason inflation-adjusted wages have fallen five years in a row under Bush after rising 7 out of 8 years under Clinton, THEY weren't the reason the number living in poverty has risen five years in a row after falling every year under Clinton.

GW Bush. Worst President Ever? Oh, no, my friends. Worst. President. Possible.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

93. Your fatal flaw:

"screw the rules, did we write them as a community or did they come from a single source?)

That's where you miss the turn, TIT, because it's not the community's website - it belongs to individuals, and they get to make the rules. If you want to be completely free in your expression of anything, you have to put up your own website, or decorate your own house with the signs.

There are rules, like them or not. I do know what you're saying, though, and there are times when the rules get in the way. But, it's not our site, so we come here, and by doing so, we automatically agree to abide by the rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. From What I Just Saw After Searching His Recent Posts, He Was Being

extremely antagonistic lately. Besides the obvious fact that he called out Skinner this morning to tombstone him in a very arrogant manner, his other posts have been quite provocative lately. I guess he got to the point where he no longer wanted to be a liberal and declared himself an independent. Nothing wrong with that on its face, but he took it to a degree where he was actually advocating against democrats. From some of his posts I just read, he was becoming extremely bitter with the democratic party and spewing agressive and provocative statements. This is DU, and not really the place to be advocating against being liberal.

I enjoyed some of Walt's posts, disagreed completely with others. But he has made his own decision that he no longer wanted to be a part of our party and chose to leave our community by storming out like a child.

Don't blame Skinner for this, the blame rests squarely on Walt's shoulders.

[Catherine Vincent]

23. Oh, I'm not blaming Skinner or any of the moderators.

I just wanted to know what was going on.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. I Know You Weren't . That Point Was For The Sake Of Others :)

[kentuck]

24. Walt went over the edge with the nomination of Alito....

I've always appreciated his posts. He was the first person to come up with the creative word "Enronomics" when Enrom was stealing California blind. I hope he can talk with Skinner and they can work something out so he can come back.

[femrap]

70. I missed that.....

Did Walt hate 'I-lie-too' as much as I did/do?

Maybe Walt and I are too 'progressive' for DU? Or did Walt want I-lie-too on the bench?

Anyone who supported I-lie-too for the SCOTUS is a pug...and as far as I am concerned anyone who wouldn't fight to stop I-lie-too is a traitor to the democratic cause....

so go ahead and ban me too...or tombstone or whatever...geez.

[EFerrari]

78. Maybe we could just chill for a while.

This calling each other out may be satisfying in the moment but over the long haul, doesn't work.

Can we just settle for now?

[pecwae]

100. From my 2 years

of lurking I came to appreciate Walt's postings as well. His intelligience came through even when he was frustrated and I will miss him. I also saw many instances of you, Kentuck, gently diffusing certain situations involving Walt's passionate political beliefs and those of other posters:-) Kentuck and Walt Starr; different styles, but both important contributors to this site IMO.

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. This isn't the first time

Walt's gone off the 'deep end'. I remember one time right after the 2004 election I thought he had turned into a freeper, then he seemed to calm down and was back to his usual rational self.

[LostinVA]

99. No, I remember the time you're talking about

I thought, for a while, he had been a Freeper troll. Then, like you said, he calmed back down.

[benburch]

28. He threw a fit and left.

Quitter.

[Catherine Vincent]

30. I've always wanted to ask you....

who is that woman in your avatar?

[benburch]

33. Sophie Scholl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Scholl

[Catherine Vincent]

45. What a courageous woman. Thanks, Ben.

"Your heads will fall as well." She was brave until her murder. Treason my ass!

[stlsaxman]

101. i love that pic of the memorial-

taken, i imagine, at the spot where she was arrested?



now THAT is art!

[astroBspacedog]

106. All this time I thought she was, --

Bernadette Devlin McAliskey, The Northern Ireland Republican political activist and former Member of Parliament who, --------

punched Reginald Maudling, the Secretary of State for the Home Department in the Conservative government, when he made a statement to Parliament on Bloody Sunday supporting the British Army line that it had fired only in self-defence. Devlin had witnessed the event and was infuriated that, although parliamentary convention decreed that any M.P. witnessing an incident under discussion would be granted an opportunity to speak about it in parliament, she had been consistently denied the chance to speak. She was suspended from Parliament for 6 months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernadette_Devlin_McAliskey

[Blue_Tires]

38. i think he just became frusterated and boiled over

hopefully he will take some time off, calm down, and be re-instated

[Neil Lisst]

43. Anyone who challenges the site owner like that deserves tombstoning

That is elementary.

Beyond that, there is the issue of what DU is about.

Some here want to see the party pull together, and some want to see it pulled apart. I'm in the first group, and Walt Starr appeared in the latter.

I appreciate the range of discussions and dissensions posted at DU, but I appreciate most its commitment to the Democratic party.

[bottomofthehill]

52. Bingo

[juajen]

74. Agreed.

N/T

[RoyGBiv]

82. Very well said ...

I can't add anything to that.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

47. Boo

fucking hoo.

[Catherine Vincent]

63. Now now, only girly men say stuff like that.

:) :hi:

[Gregorian]

50. Oh no. I feel responsible.

And I tried to post to Walt. I didn't. It started with an argument about Christianity. And I cannot figure out why I am so wired about the whole Christianity/athiest thing. I get as loony as I do about those who love Bush. We argued about the bible being fact versus myth.

I wanted to tell Walt that I have been observing my own behavior, and cannot understand it. I thought I was going to get banned for just being so argumentative about the whole thing. I feel just as responsible as anyone for Walt being banned. And I also feel that we sometimes find ourselves clinging to ideas. I don't know what else to say. I hope I didn't help to create the situation for this.

I value Walt's posts and his ideas. I hope he reads this.

[benburch]

53. Don't

I think it was coming on for a very long time.

[Gregorian]

66. Alright.

We have a bigger goal. It's not about me. I'm getting that into my head, finally. Cool.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

54. Don't do that to yourself

You held your own in an exchange with someone else? So, for that, you feel guilty?

Oh, come on. You're a doll, but your power is not that great.

The man made his decision as an adult, all by himself.

If, however, someone disagreeing with someone else is enough to cause that first someone to make a public display of his quitting DU, well, there's something terribly wrong there.

And it wasn't you, Gregorian. Let it go. Not your issue. We all get weird on DU every once in a while, and the solution to that is to turn off the computer and go outside and stay away from the computer for a good long time. Fresh air, real world, all that.

Now, be nicer to yourself. And I'm sure WS is reading every last one of these posts. That would fit with his martyr-style departure.

Sort of like hiding out at your own funeral.

Pffffffffffffft.

OK?

[Gregorian]

58. Thanks. And I'm sure you're right.

That bit about power is more true than I'd care to admit to myself.

Yes, we all could use a little more pfffffft now and then.

:)

[EFerrari]

55. We make our own adventure, Gregorian. Maybe Walt

and Skinner can work something out. That would be a good outcome.

[Catherine Vincent]

60. Men! What are we goanna do?

;-)

[EFerrari]

65. I put my helmet on. You should do the same.

:)

[Gregorian]

64. I'm sure they will.

I gained some insight since our posts. I got pretty heated over the religion thing. It taught me a lot about myself. I still can't believe how intense I get about it. After all, I love Blackadder. Well, this day is about over for me.

I sure hope you're doing well. I recall getting heated at you, also. Sheesh. We're going to come through this soon. The whole process has been absolutely stunning. My life has totally changed with all of this thinking, supporting, and communicating. Bla... I'm really beat. See you 'round. And thanks!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

75. I know where to find him, if you want...

PM me

[Swamp Rat]

61. Good Bye Walt Starr!

:hi:

I know you will continue fighting the fascists in your own, unique way. :patriot:

[DetroitProle]

68. I had one run-in with him.

He was the only bad experience I've had at DU in my short time here. I questioned his authority on something, and he went completely batshit. I tried to find some point we could agree on, but his rage just boiled over.
I sure won't miss him!

[femrap]

71. I rather enjoyed his rage...

especially when he wanted to SHUT IT DOWN....and I rather liked his liberal gun-toting idea.

I'm sure he'll be back....or somewhere...

[Lorien]

84. I had him on "ignore" for that type of behavior

He seemed strongly DLC to me too.

[EFerrari]

87. I've never agreed with Walt on a single issue.

And, disrespecting Skinner in his own house is anathema.

But, I'd rather see this worked out. Because these small negotiations add up.

[DemInDistress]

80. But why would any good democrat want to support scalito?

I just don't get it..I busted my ass writing emails,signing petitions and eating up my minutes to see they dumped scalito. Why support any DUer not aboard that train? Scalito will definitely tip the balance and vote the crime family's way when called upon. jmho...
I didn't know walt starr but hey, allowing scalito and asking for that tombstone is poetic justice, sorry.

[northofdenali]

81. ...

Don't know, don't care to know, what was behind this, but http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2507034

[julialnyc]

83. sorry to sound ignorant

but what does "being tombstoned"mean? I've been here for years, but I'm not able to visit as much as I'd like.

[Emit]

85. Being "tombstoned" means

getting banned. If one is banned, when you click on the author's profile (the little rolodex card icon next to one's name), you will see a picture of a tombstone that says: "Here Lies a Disruptor, He Disrupted ...Poorly."

In this case, you can try it at this thread, noted in one of the posts above: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2507034

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

90. Interesting discussion.

So I went to look at my rather short ignore list and there he was. Oh well...

[DemonFighterLives]

94. He disrupted poorly

I disagreed with Walt quite a bit, but found some posts interesting. I might have even alerted on him before, but don't remember.

To everyone's relief, no one is on my ignore list, er, I don't have one. :donut:

[lonestarnot]

96. Damn! Why, when? Let Walt Starr come back!

[babylonsister]

102. He asked to be:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2507034

More here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4873256

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Avalux]

108. Locking.

Members are banned for not following the rules. Link to DU rules:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

If there are any further questions, they should be directed to the administrators by going here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html