Please help me understand the bankrupcy vote.

[mdmc]

Hello DU and I am very sorry that I am months behind on this issue. On 2-26-06 this article http://www.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2006/02/26/surprise_bankruptcy_filers_really_are_broke/ came out suggesting that the bankrupcy bill was pretty much a kick to the head of the working poor.

I would like to understand where the democratic support for this bill came from and how bill supporting democrats justified their support.

on edit: I am looking for a list of dems w/ statements. Where the f--- are the Grad students? Is are children learning? :)



I am so mad at this bill. I would like to understand it more. Please help me out DU. Which dems supported it and why? Thanks. Peace and low stress, mdmc

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Dem Sens Biden and Carper are from DE, a big banking state

But why do dems support any of the rabidly anti-people, pro-corporation bills (medicare, etc etc)?

Same reason the Repubs do. Money.

[Giant Robot]

2. I have no idea how any human being could stomach

voting for this piece of tripe, let alone Democrat or Republican. I can't tell you how this was justified to them morally or otherwise. But I can share my disappointment that my Senator Debbie Stabenow(D-MI) voted for it. Don't remember if Levin voted for it or not. I am sure with some investigation you will find that the Delaware congress persons instigated this bill. I think that would be Biden(D-DE).

[fujiyama]

36. Levin voted against it

and he voted against cloture as well.

[sam sarrha]

3. it 'In' crowd knows the economy will tank because of Bu$h..

[mdmc]

6. is it that deep...

heavy.

[poverlay]

4. While I can't tell you all the details regarding the Dems complicity,

I do know that this legislation was, like you said, a "kick to the head" of the American people and a gift to corporations. I wrote my senator: Jon Kyl, and the lame form letter justifying the decision was full of holes and misdirection. It sealed my anger and made me into an activist working against tools like Kyl and the dems who supported this rape.

[Greyhound]

7. Welcome to DU

always happy to have another 'Zonie.

[poverlay]

27. Thanks! You're my first "welcome to du". Now I feel official n/t

:patriot:

[mdmc]

8. it upsets me too

<hey, I heard you like reading. I just started reading Trout Fishing in the Reflection Pool or The Fireside Watergate. snip... p.99 (Quoting Fred LaRue. 'Liddy said he would never reveal any information in the course of any investigation even if it led to him. But if we were not satisfied with that assurance he said that, though he was opposed to suicide, if we would instruct him to be on any street corner at any time, he would be there and we could have him assassinated.>

[Greyhound]

5. Yep, the same reason they supported all of the anti-citizen, pro-corporate

bills that have gone through with bi-partisan support for the last 25 years. Almost all of them, regardless of party, are politiwhores for sale to the highest bidder. After all it's a win-win solution, the Corporations win by being allowed to steal more of your money and the politiwhores and their families win through "nephew" jobs and huge campaign contributions. The only loser is you and me and we don't matter, do we?

[farmbo]

9. They supported it in exchange for Credit Card $$$. They used the excuse of

..."This is America and honest people pay their debts. Only deadbeats file bankruptcy anyhow."

(This was highly disingenuous, given that they kept--over strenuous Democratic objections-- the unlimited homestead exemptions for bankrupt millionaires. Alas, there was no organized lobby for the "Future Bankrupt Families of America.")

It was truly a shameful episode.

[Savannah Progressive]

10. I don't think I can explain why, but I can help with WHO.

The members of the Senate who voted for the Bankruptcy Reform Act.
AR Jr Senator Mark Pryor Democrat Y
AR Sr Senator Blanche L. Lincoln Democrat Y
CO Jr Senator Ken Salazar Democrat Y
DE Sr Senator Joseph R. Biden Democrat Y
DE Jr Senator Thomas Richard Carper Democrat Y
FL Sr Senator Bill Nelson Democrat Y
HI Sr Senator Daniel K. Inouye Democrat Y
IN Jr Senator Evan Bayh Democrat Y
LA Sr Senator Mary L. Landrieu Democrat Y
MI Jr Senator Debbie Ann Stabenow Democrat Y
MT Sr Senator Max S. Baucus Democrat Y
ND Sr Senator Gaylord Kent 'Kent' Conrad Democrat Y
NE Jr Senator E. Benjamin 'Ben' Nelson Democrat Y
NM Jr Senator Jeff Bingaman Democrat Y
NV Sr Senator Harry M. Reid Democrat Y
SD Sr Senator Tim P. Johnson Democrat Y
WI Sr Senator Herbert H. 'Herb' Kohl Democrat Y
WV Sr Senator Robert C. Byrd Democrat Y

These are the Democrats from the House of Representatives who voted FOR the Bankruptcy Reform Act, or the Screw the little guy act as it should be known.

AL 5 Representative Robert E. 'Bud' Cramer Democrat Y
AL 7 Representative Artur Davis Democrat Y
AR 1 Representative Robert Marion Berry Democrat Y
AR 4 Representative Mike Ross Democrat Y
AZ 4 Representative Edward 'Ed' Pastor Democrat Y
CA 1 Representative C. Michael 'Mike' Thompson Democrat Y
CA 10 Representative Ellen O. Tauscher Democrat Y
CA 18 Representative Dennis A. Cardoza Democrat Y
CA 20 Representative Jim Costa Democrat Y
CA 36 Representative Jane Harman Democrat Y
CA 43 Representative Joe Baca Democrat Y
CO 3 Representative John T. Salazar Democrat Y
FL 2 Representative F. Allen Boyd Democrat Y
FL 11 Representative James 'Jim' Davis Democrat Y
FL 17 Representative Kendrick B. Meek Democrat Y
GA 2 Representative Sanford D. Bishop Democrat Y
HI 2 Representative Edward E. 'Ed' Case Democrat Y
IA 3 Representative Leonard L. Boswell Democrat Y

Silly isn't it?

KS 3 Representative Dennis Moore Democrat Y
KY 6 Representative Albert B. 'Ben' Chandler Democrat Y
LA 2 Representative William J. Jefferson Democrat Y
LA 3 Representative Charles J. 'Charlie' Melancon Democrat Y
MD 4 Representative Albert R. Wynn Democrat Y
MD 5 Representative Steny H. Hoyer Democrat Y
ME 2 Representative Michael H. Michaud Democrat Y
MN 7 Representative Collin C. Peterson Democrat/Farmer/Labor Y
MO 4 Representative Ike Skelton Democrat Y
MO 5 Representative Emanuel Cleaver Democrat Y
NC 2 Representative Bob R. Etheridge Democrat Y
NC 4 Representative David Eugene Price Democrat Y
NC 7 Representative Mike McIntyre Democrat Y
NJ 1 Representative Robert E. 'Rob' Andrews Democrat Y
NJ 9 Representative Steven R. Rothman Democrat Y
NJ 13 Representative Robert Menendez Democrat Y
NY 2 Representative Steve J. Israel Democrat Y
NY 4 Representative Carolyn McCarthy Democrat Y
NY 6 Representative Gregory W. Meeks Democrat Y
NY 7 Representative Joseph Crowley Democrat Y
NY 27 Representative Brian M. Higgins Democrat Y
OH 6 Representative Ted Strickland Democrat Y
OK 2 Representative David Daniel 'Dan' Boren Democrat Y
OR 1 Representative David Wu Democrat Y
OR 5 Representative Darlene Hooley Democrat Y
PA 12 Representative John P. 'Jack' Murtha Democrat Y
PA 13 Representative Allyson Y. Schwartz Democrat Y
PA 17 Representative Tim Holden Democrat Y
SC 5 Representative John McKee Spratt Democrat Y
SD At-Large Representative Stephanie Herseth Democrat Y
TN 4 Representative Lincoln Davis Democrat Y
TN 5 Representative Jim Cooper Democrat Y
TN 6 Representative Barton Jennings 'Bart' Gordon Democrat Y
TN 8 Representative John S. Tanner Democrat Y
TN 9 Representative Harold E. Ford Democrat Y
TX 9 Representative Al Green Democrat Y
TX 15 Representative Ruben E. Hinojosa Democrat Y
TX 16 Representative Silvestre Reyes Democrat Y
TX 17 Representative Thomas 'Chet' Edwards Democrat Y
TX 20 Representative Charles A. 'Charlie' Gonzalez Democrat Y
TX 27 Representative Solomon P. Ortiz Democrat Y
TX 28 Representative Henry Cuellar Democrat Y
UT 2 Representative Jim Matheson Democrat Y
VA 8 Representative James P. Moran Democrat Y
VA 9 Representative Frederick C. 'Rick' Boucher Democrat Y
WA 2 Representative Rick Larsen Democrat Y
WA 3 Representative Brian N. Baird Democrat Y
WI 3 Representative Ronald James 'Ron' Kind Democrat Y
WV 1 Representative Alan B. Mollohan Democrat Y
WV 3 Representative Nick Joe Rahall Democrat Y


I got this information from http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_keyvote_member.php?vote_id=3480

It is beyond disgusting, it is a slap in the face that these people who voted to screw the little guy would call themselvs Democrats. Friends, I admit that Democrats can have different views on issues, and we can all be tolerant of those who have views that differ from our own. However, if we don't care about the little guy, aren't we repugniks?

[mdmc]

11. thank you.

:kick:

[Wilms]

12. kick

[Hidden Stillness]

13. A Little More Info--But Still Do Not Understand Why

I don't know if this really adds any information to this thread, but a few more thoughts. It is hard to tell if the votes for this horrific bill were based on ignorance or being bought off by corporate sponsors; I heard quotes from some of these people that indicated either one. I was shocked that Sen. Stabenow from my State of Michigan voted for it, but she voted for the "Medicare"/corporate drug prescription "plan," based on the idea that it was "better than nothing," a bizarre quote. At a Democratic forum before a class of medical students, attending university under the crushing burden of student loans, Sen. Harry Reid was asked about supporting the Bankruptcy Bill, and actually made a quote like (from memory; it was on C-SPAN), that we all have to make a moral statement against the type of deadbeats who will not pay their bills after splurging, etc., another bizarre remark that has nothing to do with the problem--especially before an audience of student-loan indentured servants. When people are paid minimum wage, but price-gouging for essentials--car repairs, needing new refrigerators and other large appliances, home repairs, credit card fees, on and on--goes on, then you will never pay it back. All studies show that almost all personal bankruptcies are caused by either medical bills/emergencies, or loss of job/divorce/loss of income. The idea of the "splurging deadbeat," so popular on the corporate media, is almost unheard of.

A couple of years ago, Al Gore gave a great speech part of which was a list of completely incoherent Bush/Cheney policy decisions, and how actually, every single one of them could be explained by revealing which corporate donor of the Administration's would be directly benefitted by it. Then it was all clear. Notice, that with all their phony "hand-wringing" about fake bankruptcies and deadbeats, etc., they leave the wildly lucrative field of phony CORPORATE bankruptcy-declarations, and profits from, completely untouched. One of the most destructive things that bastard Reagan ever did was to make it possible for corporations to profit from their own debt, which they had caused. No one has ever fixed that problem.

[mdmc]

thanks for the post

I will have to look into the Gore speach. Do you know where it was . when. :kick:

[mdmc]

15. thanks for the post

I will have to look into the Gore speach. Do you know where it was . when. :kick:

[Hidden Stillness]

17. Fabulous Gore Speech

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102004X.shtml Georgetown University, Oct. 2004

This was a great speech for many reasons, much sharp criticism of Bush on Iraq, as an incompetant and a disaster, on Cheney, etc., and around halfway through the speech (which was on C-SPAN at the time, with a few of the anti-Bush quotes from conservatives near the end, censored from the video), bottom page 8 on the print, the reference to how Bush makes every decision, followed then by examples from Social Security commercialization-attempt, to energy policy, to "medical savings accounts," etc., etc. After referring to the false information presented to the American people on every single thing Bush was pushing, this phrase:

"And in every case, the flawed analysis was provided to him from sources that had a direct interest, financial or otherwise, in the radically new policy that the President adopted. And, in those cases where the policy has been implemented, the consequences have been to detriment of the American people, often catastrophically so. In other cases, the consequences still lie in the future but are nonetheless perfectly predictably for anyone who is reasonable. In yet other cases the policies have not yet been implemented but have been clearly designated by the President as priorities for the second term he has asked for from the American people. At the top of this list is the privatization of social security."

It then continued, with the other examples of Administration policy, all of which was prompted by profit-making corporations Bush/Cheney were associated with, top of the list being Halliburton, of course.

[mdmc]

21. thanks for the link

:kick:

[meganmonkey]

18. Debbie Stabenow

Her voting record isn't totally horrible, but she has made the wrong choice on lots of issues, including the ones you mention. She is a member of the DLC, which could explain a lot. Unfortunately, so is Governor Granholm (which I was disappointed to learn).

[salin]

14. Foolishness - pure foolishness and greed

the belief that this would benefit them in terms of campaign donations - except the fools haven't caught on - that in this era of one-party rule - the party of corporate dominance is always going to reap the campaign donations game.

[PassingFair]

16. The REAL story was in the cloture vote:

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2005/03/bankruptcy_clot.html

snip>

Bankruptcy Cloture Vote Roll Call

The cloture vote on the hateful bankruptcy bill has passed, which means that the bankruptcy bill won't be filibustered, and will probably pass. Every Republican voted for cloture, but it couldn't have passed without Democratic defections. There were fourteen:

Biden (D-DE)
Byrd (D-WV)
Carper (D-DE)
Conrad (D-ND)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)

This ought to be a straightforward issue for Democrats, and the fourteen Senators listed above should be ashamed. To Joe Biden, in particular: I like a lot of what you say on defense policy, but you have permanently lost any chance of my support in any future Democratic presidential primary unless all your opponents are so dreadful that they must be actively opposed. If you run against David Duke or Louis Farrakhan, I will work for you. But if any other reasonable person who didn't just vote the way you did runs against you, I will work for that person against you. (I'd say the same to Joe Lieberman, but I would never have supported him anyways.)

I believe all are DLC with the exception of MBNA WHORE, BIDEN.

Clinton didn't vote.

[flpoljunkie]

19. Enabling the R's to pass this deplorable bill gives credence to the claim

there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. Shame on the Democrats for this one-sided giveaway to the banks and credit card companies. They should work to immediately fix this abomination of a bill if take control of Congress. I fear they will not.

[mdmc]

20. that is my fear too.

thanks for posting. peace and low stress, mdmc

[flpoljunkie]

22. Study shows controversial bankruptcy law not working as intended.

http://nacba.com/news/022206release.asp

WASHINGTON, D.C.//February 22, 2006/// The first analysis of tens of thousands of consumers seeking protection since a new federal bankruptcy law went into effect last October concludes that the changes put in place by Congress are not working as intended. The report by the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys (NACBA) finds that of the 61,335 consumers seen so far by credit counseling firms – the required first stop under the new bankruptcy law – nearly all (97 percent) are unable to repay any debts and that four out of five would-be filers (79 percent) were forced into dire financial straits by circumstances beyond their control, such as the loss of a job, catastrophic medical expenses or the death of a spouse.

Entitled “Bankruptcy Reform's Impact: Where Are All the Deadbeats?,” the NACBA analysis is based on data provided by a cross-section of six large and small credit counseling firms that have been authorized by the U.S. Justice Department's Executive Office for U.S. Trustees to provide bankruptcy screening. The credit counseling firms responding to the NACBA survey were: Money Management International ( Houston , TX ), GreenPath Inc. ( Farmington Hills , MI ), Springboard Nonprofit Consumer Credit Management ( Riverside , CA ), Hummingbird ( Raleigh , NC ), Institute for Financial Literacy ( Portland , ME ) and ByDesign Financial Solutions ( Los Angeles , CA ).

Brad Botes, executive director, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, said: “Contrary to the claims of proponents of bankruptcy law changes that they would zero in on the alleged legions of ‘deadbeats' who supposedly were crippling the U.S. economy with ‘billions of dollars in losses associated with profligate and abusive bankruptcy filings,' the federal bankruptcy law changes that went into effect on October 17, 2005 are doing no measurable good whatsoever. Instead, they have put new hurdles in the path of people who are already flat on their back due to financial crises over which they have no control, such as the loss of a job, catastrophic health care bills, and so on.”

[mdmc]

23. where are all the deadbeats!

:kick:

[Savannah Progressive]

24. Yet we Democrats aren't insisting that the law be repealed.

Insted we are probably working to make the bad law worse, like prohibiting Bankruptcy for individuals or some other stupid move.

[TayTay]

25. Democrats are not working for that

Where is your proof for this statement? Which Democrats? What exact action items or bills are you talking about.

There were a number of Senators who spent a lot of time and effort attempting to derail that bill. Are you going to give them any credit or just bitch about the few who didn't?

[flpoljunkie]

26. Dem leaders could have stopped this awful bill. They chose not to do so.

Defend that, if you can.

[mdmc]

37. do you know who is leading this effort?

Sounds like it would be Ted Kennedy's issue.

[Marie26]

28. Easy

Credit card companies, banks, and other big business lobbyists donated a whole lot of money to Democrats. I'll try to find a list for you if that's what you're looking for.

The bill passed by a whopping 74 to 25 margin, with eighteen Democratic Senators going over to the dark side.

Here are the spineless 18:

Max Baucus, Montana.

Evan Bayh, Indiana.

Joe Biden, Delaware.

Jeff Bingaman, New Mexico.

Robert Byrd, West Virginia.

Thomas Carper, Delaware.

Kent Conrad, North Dakota.

Daniel Inouye, Hawaii.

Tim Johnson, South Dakota.

Herb Kohl, Wisconsin.

Mary Landrieu, Louisiana.

Blanche Lincoln, Arkansas

Bill Nelson, Florida.

Ben Nelson, Nebraska.

Mark Pryor, Arkansas.

Harry Reid, Nevada, Senate Minority Leader!

Ken Salazar, Colorado.

Debbie Stabenow, Michigan.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0313-31.htm

[mdmc]

33. you have been very kind to me and I appreciate it

:kick:

[Hidden Stillness]

29. One More Point on This Bill

(Something I forgot to mention on other posts; remembered later.) Just after the Bankruptcy Bill passed, Federal law was changed, and minimum payment amounts on credit cards were increased, increasing the hardship on people already being crushed by debt interest-rate-gouging, etc. I remember hearing a lot of talk at the time that this minimum payment increase finally explained the strange Bankruptcy Bill, that it was a one-two-punch. Now that people were tied to their debts and could never get out, the credit card corporations could rope them into higher payments, more fees, penalties, and anything else they wanted, and there was nothing anyone could do anymore. No one had rights now.

This was the same one-two-punch as the "Medicare" (corporate) prescription drug enrollment scheme--step 1: cut off the government programs that helped people pay for medications and enroll them on these corporate schemes, making sure to add a completely bizarre provision in the law, that the Government cannot negotiate low bulk-rate prices, but each individual deals with the unregulated corporate market alone; then, 2: hike up the drug prices at more than double the rate of inflation, with multiple price spikes and invented "shortages," as people now cannot fight back because of step 1, the phony new law. There is a common opinion with both these things that the original Bill was merely step 1, to tie people into a system they now cannot get out of, and then, next, all the unconscionable law and rule changes that will follow, totally strangling the life out of people--that will be the real activity.

[mdmc]

34. this really sucks

seems like we have the GOP to fight for the corporations, and the Dems to fight for the corporations and the unions.

This is how I am starting to see our party.

[Nutmegger]

30. You should e-mail Joe "MBNA" Biden

He'll give you an answer I'm sure!

[mdmc]

35. I understand Joementum's support alla Hartford, CT

Joe is a big corporate guy. It is my liberal progressive shame that I am a fan of Joemenutm.

[sandnsea]

31. Pressure from Main Street too

And the local chambers, particularly in rural states. After they included a provision to exclude people making less than the median income in their area, it made it harder for rural politicians to fight.

[mdmc]

38. i didn't know that it had this much support.

[SoCalDem]

32. It's all just a vicious circle..

Pols need MONEY to stay elected, so they cook up backroom deals for their pet lobbyists and corporate pals to keep the money flowing.. WHY do they need MONEY?? To pay for ridiculous ADS on the airwaves that we GIVE to super-rich corporate media folks who make a KILLING on the election ads every 2 years, so they can GIVE MONEY to the politicians for their re-eelction so they can cook up even more deals for them..

See how it works??

The people are incidental...we are just eyes for the ads, and props for election day, so they can justify the phony numbers that the vapor-voting machines (made, owned and operated by MORE corporate/republican flunkies who are in the money cycle) spit out at the end of the day..

[mdmc]

39. somehow this cycle must be broken. Paging Bernie Saunders

paging Doctor Dean...