RWinger John Glenn e-mail floating around.

[longship]

This is so much bullshit. My wife received the following from a "friend". I plan on responding to this so-called "friend".

Please comment.

"Well said John Glenn!"
Things that hopefully will make you think a little........

1. There were 39 combat related killings in
Iraq during the month of January.....
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35
murders during the month of January.

That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn
country of Iraq.

2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the
following ..
FDR...led us into World War II. Germany
never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per
year.

Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never
attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy. .started the Vietnam
conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia
never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan
and did nothing.

Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us:
President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.

Wait, there's more.

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading.

Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of our military.

JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004

Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn:
How can you run for the Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn replied:
"I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day to a veteran's hospital and look those men with their mangled bodies in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...
and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads/ didn't hold
a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch all those people waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to
duty - that was more important than life itself.

And - their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an
attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading it in
English, thank a Veteran. If you think this is important enough for
others to read it ....

Please keep this circulating.

[never cry wolf]

1. Snopes it. Been debunked many times....n/t

[longship]

3. If you know it, please provide debunking Citation/Link.

Please help with this.

Thanks.

[democracyindanger]

7. .

Read all the way to the bottom for the Iraq part, and don't be put off by the "Status: True" part. Read the article carefully.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

[benddem]

9. I don't have a link but

this is my response:

This is full of lies and statistical improbabilities. You cannot compare apples and oranges. Detroit has a population of 5,000,000 we have 120,000 troops in Iraq.
Germany declared war on the US after Japan attacked. Please do a review of history before sending something like this. Roosevelt joined WWII because Germany and Japan had become allied. Truman didn't start the war...the north Koreans did. South Korea was our allie. Kennedy didn't start the war and actually Eisenhower sent the first troops there. But again the North Vietnamese started it.
George H.W. Bush sent troops to Somalia...they didn't attack us either.
Clinton sent troops to Bosnia...along with NATO. We had and have large numbers of other countries troops there. He sent those troops to Bosnia to stop genocide.
The statement made by John Glenn was made in 1972. Both he and Howard
Metzenbaum are Democrats and neither are still in the Senate and haven't been for years..
Because Howard Metzenbaum represented communists, does that make him one???
What about the lawyers who represent Murderers?
The war in Iraq is a mess. Ask some of the Generals who have experience.
General Zinni called this the Bay of Goats. General Hoar warned that this would become house to house fighting. Militias of both religions have sprouted up and control parts of the city. It has become a civil war because
Bush and Rumsfeld didn't send enough troops...the ones the Generals...including Gen. Franks asked for.
The commander in chief is doing a pitiful job and he refuses to admit any mistakes. He wouldn't have admitted that there was some blame in New Orleans if it hadn't been so obvious.
Please don't send me this kind of stuff.

[longship]

13. Detroit.

Population is about 900,000.

Still, the comparison is a non-sequitor.

[FuzzySlippers]

11. I think this is what you're looking for.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Apparently the "never held a job" part of the exchange is true, but occurred between Glenn and Metzenbaum during a Senate primary debate. The stuff he supposedly said about Iraq is not.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Try doing your own research before posting crap like this to DU.

[longship]

19. Please.

My search of these forums for this received no hits. Google, gave nothing of value.

I can debunk all of the stuff myself. However, I merely wanted to get comments because a close friend of my wife sent this to here the other day and my wife wanted to respond to it. It was in that context that I posted this.

I thought that somebody here might be able to shed some light of its origins.

A little civility on your part would be appreciated.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. IMHO, posts like your OP get as much "civility" as they deserve...

...it's not my problem that you can't seem to handle the responses you undoubtedly knew you were going to get.

Additionally, I find it more than a little interesting that Google was able to give me more than 70,000 responses despite the fact that you found "nothing of value".

<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Glenn+Metzenbaum&btnG=Google+Search>

[longship]

26. Hmmmph.

You seem to be going to a lot of trouble to smack me down. Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore my post, or if you're going to go to the trouble, to give the assistance I've asked, i.e., for commentary on the e-mail.

It would be nice if you weren't being such a jerk about it, my friend.

Peace.

[tabasco]

29. You deserved to get smacked down.

This garbage has been posted so many times and is so easily debunked with a quick google search.

Good job, MLD!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. I guess you failed to read the Google link I provided....

...why am I not suprised?

I see that you're using the tactic of attacking the poster when backed into a corner...that's not surprising, either.

You claimed to have found nothing usable on this subject when you allegedly used Google. I have proven that you are either a very lazy researcher, or less than honest...or both.

One more comment...I don't have any friends that call me a "jerk". Please refrain from calling me your friend in the future.

"Peace"?? No, I think you and I are just getting started. Keep posting...you're starting to entertain me.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. What reply #1 said. Posted and debunked here many times.

[mitchtv]

4. didn't Germany delcare war on us the next day or so?

I have seen thid before, sorry it was too long to stomach.

[longship]

5. Germany declared war on US on 11 Dec 1941

FDR then asked Congress for a declaration of war in response.

Here's FDR's letter to Congress:

December 11, 1941
The President's Message

To the Congress of the United States:

On the morning of Dec. 11 the Government of Germany, pursuing its course of world conquest, declared war against the United States. The long-known and the long-expected has thus taken place. The forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemisphere. Never before has there been a greater challenge to life, liberty and civilization. Delay invites great danger. Rapid and united effort by all of the peoples of the world who are determined to remain free will insure a world victory of the forces of justice and of righteousness over the forces of savagery and of barbarism. Italy also has declared war against the United States.

I therefore request the Congress to recognize a state of war between the United States and Germany, and between the United States and Italy.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

===

The War Resolution

Declaring that a state of war exists between the Government of Germany and the government and the people of the United States and making provision to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the government and the people of the United States of America:

Therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to
employ the entire naval and military forces of the government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

I do my reasearch!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. FDR declared war against Japan on December 8, 1941,.....

...immediately following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. In the year leading up to Japan's attack, the U. S. had followed the steps outlined in the McCollum Memo, steps that were designed to provoke Japan into attacking the U. S.

Italy and Germany declared war on the U. S. on December 11, 1941, because:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/11/newsid_3532000/3532401.stm>

QUOTE:

"Germany and Italy have announced they are at war with the United States. America immediately responded by declaring war on the two Axis powers.

Three days ago, US President Franklin Roosevelt announced America was at war with Japan, the third Axis power, following the surprise attack on its naval base at Pearl Harbor.

Today Italian dictator, Benito Mussolini, made his declaration first - from the balcony over the Piazza Venezia in Rome - pledging the "powers of the pact of steel" were determined to win.

Then Adolf Hitler made his announcement at the Reichstag in Berlin saying he had tried to avoid direct conflict with the US but, under the Tripartite Agreement signed on 27 September 1940, Germany was obliged to join with Italy to defend its ally Japan."

FDR responded the same day with declarations of war against both Italy and Germany.

[longship]

24. FDR never declared war.

Only Congress can declare war.

Here's FDR's entire "Day of Infamy" speech. At the very end you can hear the beginnings of the Congressional debate on the resolution of war (until Speaker of the House Rayburn realizes that the radio microphones are still open and has them shut down.)

This is an historic recording. It contains the speech in its entirety (which is rarely heard).

1941-12-08_CBS-FDR)_Asks_Congress_for_War-Complete_Coverage.mp3 (Warning: 16MByte MP3 -- 69 minutes)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. Then you've already debunked the "FDR led us into WWII" yourself,

haven't you, seeing as how Congress declared war?

Germany, being allied with Japan, declared war on the U.S. on Dec. 11, 1941, which was immediately followed by a request from FDR for a Congressional declaration of war on Germany.

So the RW email has been shown to be inaccurate, outdated, and misleading all at the same time.

http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/germwar.shtml

US Declaration of War against Germany

December 11, 1941
The President's Message

To the Congress of the United States:

On the morning of Dec. 11 the Government of Germany, pursuing its course of world conquest, declared war against the United States. The long-known and the long-expected has thus taken place. The forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemisphere. Never before has there been a greater challenge to life, liberty and civilization. Delay invites great danger. Rapid and united effort by all of the peoples of the world who are determined to remain free will insure a world victory of the forces of justice and of righteousness over the forces of savagery and of barbarism. Italy also has declared war against the United States.

I therefore request the Congress to recognize a state of war between the United States and Germany, and between the United States and Italy.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
The War Resolution

Declaring that a state of war exists between the Government of Germany and the government and the people of the United States and making provision to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the government and the people of the United States of America:

Therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. Congress declares war, but it's up to a legally elected....

...president to deliver that news to the public.

Keep going...you're giving me lots of laughs.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. So doesn't this in fact show the RW email to be inaccurate, in saying that

"Germany didn't attack us... FDR led us into WWII" it implies that FDR initiated war against Germany unprovoked like shrub did in Iraq, when the fact is that FDR's declaration of war against Germany was a natural and proper response to an already declared war against the U.S.!

I mean, why don't you simply send what you just posted to the RW emailer? :shrug:

[longship]

33. I am wondering about the origin of this e-mail.

That would provide context for a response, too.

I can debunk the facts, but I'd like to be able to debunk it on the basis of it's origin as well.

Thanks.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. Doesn't it come with a "from" address? Unless that's fake?

[sandnsea]

6. John Glenn is a Democrat

So I kind of don't get the whole point of the debunked piece of trash in the first place.

[immoderate]

10. It's a touch of anti-semitism and red baiting.

Very subtle.

--IMM

[salvorhardin]

8. The smackdown to Metzenbaum is real

But it's also 30 years old.

The stuff before it is just anonymous junk that's just been tacked on.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

And as far as I know, Glenn was a lifelong Democrat.

[OzarkDem]

12. Still is

He still goes out and campaigns for Dems here in Ohio. A very good man.

[salvorhardin]

22. Bad choice of tense there

I didn't mean to imply John Glenn was no longer with us. I agree, a great man.

[wryter2000]

14. I guess Iraqi deaths don't count

If you add up all the Iraqi deaths, Iraq becomes a killing field.

You might just want to suggest that your friend send something that's a bit more current.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. Ike sent the first military advisors to Vietnam in 1954....

...our first combat loss was in 1956. JFK wasn't elected President until 1960.

As far as Osama goes, I'm still not convinced that he's responsible for 911. He denied any role in those attacks for the first few times he was asked...why did he do that? Why does the guy in the videotape who claims responsibility for 911 look nothing like Osama before or after 911?

If the GOP truly wants to thank teachers, they'll stop cutting funding for educational programs and see that salaries for teachers are raised to a level commensurate with the responsibility of preparing our children for the future.

Finally, tell the idiot that sent this to you to piss off...we're on to their lying games.

[Mabus]

17. There were mosque bombings there, church bombings here

I guess it all evens out in the end. :sarcasm:

I agree. it is bullshit.

[Historic NY]

18. I wish there was a site or a listing of crap we could send out like...

they do over and over.

[B Calm]

23. Excuse me!! but John Glenn is not a damn republican and this is a hoax!

[genie_weenie]

25. The death comparison's are disgusting and make me

vomit. You can not compare the two. And besides which our casualties are 20,000 in 3 years with 2300 KIA, and 8000 WIA unable to RTD.

All it takes is to see one dead body and you'll change your mind on the war, this is something I've told people. That's all it took for me...

[TexasProgresive]

27. These things are all alike

someone posts some unsubstantiated crap on a message board and someone else adds something that is true (like the John Glenn debate quote) and they didn't even get that right because it was not on the Senate floor. Anyway it gives the crap some sense of validity to the ignorant. They've done it with Andy Rooney, Robin Williams and others. Once it's out there it is very hard to break these lies with the truth. I generally send the snopes.com info and do a reply all asking everyone who receives this reply to send it back up the chain.