Please Post What You Think is the GREATEST MODERN DAY WHITEWASH...

[Peter Frank]

[LiberalVoice]

1. How about 9/11?

I mean seriously. 3,000 american people dead and the official govt story makes no fucking sense...

edit: typo

[Peter Frank]

6. Please share your thoughts... n't

[LiberalVoice]

11. Well for one thing...

THEY honestly expect me to believe 10,000 gallons of jet fuel(most of which exploded outside of the towers) brought down those two huge structures? Not to mention the fact that both towers fell at almost an exact free fall speed. How could those building have fallen so quickly if it really was a fire that brought them down? And lets not forget that the only three skyscrapers in history to ever have fallen because of a fire were WTC's 1, 2, and 7. All on the same day :eyes:

For a detailed timeline of what happened on 9/11 go to http://www.911timeline.net/

[Twist_U_Up]

2. I think we can all agree, 9-11 was an inside job.nt

[Peter Frank]

7. How did you come to this conclusion?... n/t

[Peter Frank]

9. Some newbies don't get this...

...please source.

[hang a left]

42. There are lots of sources out there....I like this one for an introduction

to the topic:

The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11
I posted an earlier version of this last week at Democratic Underground. I've added a number of more entries, and links for all.

Happy coincidenting!

That governments have permitted terrorist acts against their own people, and have even themselves been perpetrators in order to find strategic advantage is quite likely true, but this is the United States we're talking about.

That intelligence agencies, financiers, terrorists and narco-criminals have a long history together is well established, but the Nugan Hand Bank, BCCI, Banco Ambrosiano, the P2 Lodge, the CIA/Mafia anti-Castro/Kennedy alliance, Iran/Contra and the rest were a long time ago, so there’s no need to rehash all that. That was then, this is now!

That Jonathan Bush’s Riggs Bank has been found guilty of laundering terrorist funds and fined a US-record $25 million must embarrass his nephew George, but it's still no justification for leaping to paranoid conclusions.

That George Bush's brother Marvin sat on the board of the Kuwaiti-owned company which provided electronic security to the World Trade Centre, Dulles Airport and United Airlines means nothing more than you must admit those Bush boys have done alright for themselves.

That George Bush found success as a businessman only after the investment of Osama’s brother Salem and reputed al Qaeda financier Khalid bin Mahfouz is just one of those things - one of those crazy things.


snip>

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html

[mcscajun]

17. No, we can't all agree on that.

Some think it's a MIHOP, others a LIHOP.

Others, many others, think it happened just the way we saw it, but it could have been prevented but for egregious governmental fuck-ups. Responsibility = BushCo. On a good day, I'm in that camp. On a bad one, I may stray into LIHOP territory, but never for very long.

[Hutzpa]

23. You have to make your mind up......sounds like a flip-flop n/t

[mcscajun]

24. My mind *is* made up. I don't believe in MIHOP.

Simple as that.

I believe that BushCo was and is incompetent, negligent, and uncaring. If some want to call that LIHOP, then so be it. I don't use it because even the LIHOP contigent cannot totally agree on just what LIHOP means.

I prefer words to acronyms. I stand by my original statement. "...it happened just the way we saw it, but it could have been prevented but for egregious governmental fuck-ups. Responsibility = BushCo."

[Hutzpa]

27. I will say to you to stop watching the

news and do extensive research on the internet, if you're waiting for CNN, MSNBC and Faux for answers then my friend you have a long wait.

[mcscajun]

29. I haven't watched the news in years. You don't know me...nor do you know

that I worked in the WTC for years. I have my own perspective on the inside workings of the building...and was closer to ground zero than many on that horrible Tuesday.

I did my own research, and yes, I have seen the MIHOP sites, read extensively the postings here in the 9/11 forum, and I have all the answers I need.

[Hutzpa]

31. And still think it was a disaster waiting to happen....wow!!

[mcscajun]

32. While you're putting words in my mouth, would you mind explaining

them?

[Hutzpa]

34. Okay here goes....

I just feel there are too many unanswered questions, which if you have done extensive research as you've said you did....you should be asking yourself these same questions.....here are two that comes to mind

1) How on earth out of everything that melted down at WTC they where able to find a passport of one of the hijackers.

2) Why haven't they track Bin Laden down?



:think:

[mcscajun]

35. Papers from the WTC wound up all over lower Manhattan, and were

found by schoolchildren as far away as Brooklyn. I would agree that the odds of finding a passport of one of the hijackers are massive, and I don't necessarily believe they found such a passport. I merely point out that a great deal of paper did survive the disaster.

That doesn't bother me nearly so much as WHO shorted the Airline stocks and who shut down the investigation and why.

They haven't tracked Bin Laden down a) because he's too connected to BushCo, and b) after failing once, they had to discount his importance so that now he "no longer matters". Perception and image are everything.

We (the American we, not the government we) knew from the time of the first attack in 1993 and the ensuing trial, that the goal was to topple the towers, and that they Would Try Again.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here, because I am not going to spend countless hours disputing why some people believe MIHOP and I don't. I've posted previously on this issue in great detail. If you want to search my posts, feel free to do so.

[Hutzpa]

37. If you don't mind....

allow me to quote you sentence They haven't tracked Bin Laden down a) because he's too connected to BushCo does this mean we agree on MIHOP then, you just admitted to one of my big WHYs. This relationship must be really special that Americans should be the ones to suffer. I'm not saying there are no terrarist but this thing has been escalated so much that you can't tell who is who anymore, too many things are happening that seems out of place. Why the extra length to protect others while others are being ousted. WHY????

[mcscajun]

40. Connected to BushCo does not equate to MIHOP.

There are any number of things they want to cover up about the long-standing relationship between the BFEE and the binLaden family.

We Do Not Agree on MIHOP.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcscajun]

41. Been there, and to other similar sites.

Not convinced. Won't be. I have my own informed opinion, others have theirs. Not looking to Be swayed to MIHOP in any case. I have enough against BushCo as it is involving their negligence and incompetence before, during and after 9/11. I do not think they are innocent; I just don't think they MIHOP. End of story.

[Peter Frank]

47. What if you're wrong (and I'm not necessarily saying you are)...

How would this admin have been able to exert this level of control from the very start w/o 911?


edit for verbage

[mcscajun]

50. They wouldn't. But that doesn't make MIHOP true.

It just means they knew how to take advantage of it to put PNAC plans (already in place) into action.

They are Nothing if not opportunistic.

[Quakerfriend]

3. The creation and spread of GE foods without

propery studies to confirm their safety. Poppy * paved the way for this at the end of his presidency.

Americans need to open their eyes to the evil that is perpetrated on us through the food system, by the corperations who control it.

[Peter Frank]

8. What is the science that GM (genetically modified)...

...foods pose a threat?

[wakeme2008]

4. Clinton's BJs

Uh Oh, Shields UP ... Incoming ... Prepare to repel boarders .... Dive, Dive, Dive. :evilgrin:

[Peter Frank]

5. Well...

...Monica did do a clean job in the White House, but that doesn't necessarily qualify as a "whitewash."

;)

[stlsaxman]

14. if Monica did such a clean job in the White House...

how do you explain the stain on the Blue Dress? :tinfoilhat:

[Peter Frank]

15. I thought about that when I posted...

...but didn't want to distract from the subject.

[dipsydoodle]

10. The Chimp's IQ

.........it was yet another bad day for George. He had given
up in exhasperation trying to play Join The Dot and so had
gone back to playing Count Your Nose.

[Hutzpa]

26. LOL!!! Welcome to DU

:hi:

[rucky]

12. The illusion of Democracy in America. n/t

[Peter Frank]

13. Well said...

[Frank Cannon]

16. EVERYTHING having to do with the war in Iraq

There is not a single soul in this country, except for the most profoundly mentally retarded (in the truest sense of that phrase), who really believes that we invaded Iraq with anything resembling good intentions. The neocons and the Bushbots just don't care. Yet every minute of every day we are told that black is white and up is down and killing and torture are freedom, and we're told that we're to just ignore the lies that got us over there in the first place.

There has never been a more heinous collusion of the government and the media since the days of Stalin, probably. This war is wrecking this country, but you won't see it on TV anywhere.

[mcscajun]

18. Depends on your time frame for "Modern Day"

It may be 40+ years ago, but I'll still hold that The Warren Report is the greatest cover-up in modern history. I'll never live to see the truth come out, but maybe someone here will.

From that cover-up sprang most of the effects we're suffering from today. Plus, it was the beginning of a widespread distrust of America's government by ordinary Americans.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. The Warren Commission, the Tonkin Gulf Incident, and 911...

...and no, I'm not going into detail or providing any links. That's why they made Google.

[H2O Man]

20. The shadow government

which replaced our already damaged constitutional democracy on 9-11. While I do not think that 9-11 was in any significant sense an "inside job," I think it allowed our form of government to change in ways that even the majority of progressives of only dimly aware of.

[Peter Frank]

22. I'm with you on the "Office of Special Plans"...

This is patently unconstitutional at best; and treasonous at worst.

[sheelz]

33. The Office of Special Plans

now exists under another name right?

[sheelz]

30. Good evening H2O Man!

Can you tell us more or have any links for reading? :hi:

[H2O Man]

36. Three authors cover

this issue very well. Being old and old-fashioned, I tend to use books rather than interney sites. While this may pose some difficulties, I think DUers would do well to buy or borrow these books:

Senator Byrd's "Losing America."

John Dean's "Worse Than Watergate."

James Bamford's "A Pretext for War."

A number of the essays found on my blog also deal with the issue of the shadow government, with numerous quotes from the three authors listed above, and others. You might enjoy them. Let me know what you think.

[sheelz]

38. Thanks!

I've read John Dean's "Worse Than Watergate" which perked my interest. Do you believe that Bush administration are attacking whistleblowers and the press to keep his shadow government a secret? Will the Plame case expose the shadow government?

[hang a left]

43. Which of your essays talk about the shadow government H20??

I would like to read them too.

[Peter Frank]

44. hang a left...

For what it may be worth, here's an Amazon.com search result for "shadow government" -- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dblended%26field-keywords%3D%252522shadow%252520government%252522%26store-name%3Dall-product-search/104-4418143-4746355

The first Google result for "shadow government" "office of special plans" is:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,999737,00.html

Special investigation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The spies who pushed for war

Julian Borger reports on the shadow rightwing intelligence network set up in Washington to second-guess the CIA and deliver a justification for toppling Saddam Hussein by force

Thursday July 17, 2003
The Guardian


As the CIA director, George Tenet, arrived at the Senate yesterday to give secret testimony on the Niger uranium affair, it was becoming increasingly clear in Washington that the scandal was only a small, well-documented symptom of a complete breakdown in US intelligence that helped steer America into war.
It represents the Bush administration's second catastrophic intelligence failure. But the CIA and FBI's inability to prevent the September 11 attacks was largely due to internal institutional weaknesses.

This time the implications are far more damaging for the White House, which stands accused of politicising and contaminating its own source of intelligence.

According to former Bush officials, all defence and intelligence sources, senior administration figures created a shadow agency of Pentagon analysts staffed mainly by ideological amateurs to compete with the CIA and its military counterpart, the Defence Intelligence Agency.

The agency, called the Office of Special Plans (OSP), was set up by the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to second-guess CIA information and operated under the patronage of hardline conservatives in the top rungs of the administration, the Pentagon and at the White House, including Vice-President Dick Cheney.

The ideologically driven network functioned like a shadow government, much of it off the official payroll and beyond congressional oversight. But it proved powerful enough to prevail in a struggle with the State Department and the CIA by establishing a justification for war...<snip>


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22shadow+government%22+%22office+of+special+plans%22

Thanks for you question -- I will start a thread with this info.

[hang a left]

45. Thanks Peter

I was thinking more upon the lines of locations of secret facilities used by the shadow government. Maybe executive orders that I am not aware of that took place right after 9-11. Maybe even secret orders. Secret budgets hidden from congress and the like.

[hang a left]

46. I am not going to pay for the archived story but this is from

the Washington Post on March 1, 2002. But I was referring to something more along these lines:

Shadow Government Is at Work in Secret
After Attacks, Bush Ordered 100 Officials to Bunkers Away From Capital to Ensure Federal Survival


The Washington Post - Washington, D.C.
Author: Barton Gellman and Susan Schmidt
Date: Mar 1, 2002
Start Page: A.01
Section: A SECTION
Document Types: News
Text Word Count: 1390

Abstract (Document Summary)


Execution of the classified "Continuity of Operations Plan" resulted not from the Cold War threat of intercontinental missiles, the scenario rehearsed for decades, but from heightened fears that the al Qaeda terrorist network might somehow obtain a portable nuclear weapon, according to three officials with first-hand knowledge. U.S. intelligence has no specific knowledge of such a weapon, they said, but the risk is thought great enough to justify the shadow government's disruption and expense.

Deployed "on the fly" in the first hours of turmoil on Sept. 11, one participant said, the shadow government has evolved into an indefinite precaution. For that reason, the high-ranking officials representing their departments have begun rotating in and out of the assignment at one of two fortified locations along the East Coast. Rotation is among several changes made in late October or early November, sources said, to the standing directive inherited from a line of presidents reaching back to Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Known internally as the COG, for "continuity of government," the administration-in-waiting is an unannounced complement to the acknowledged absence of Vice President Cheney from Washington for much of the past five months. Cheney's survival ensures constitutional succession, one official said, but "he can't run the country by himself." With a core group of federal managers alongside him, Cheney -- or President Bush, if available -- has the means to give effect to his orders.

snip>

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/109965333.html?dids=109965333:109965333&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&fmac=&date=Mar+1%2C+2002&author=Barton+Gellman+and+Susan+Schmidt&desc=Shadow+Government+Is+at+Work+in+Secret

[Emit]

48. Cheney's involvement, historically, with this is...ironic

From Rise of the Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet by James Mann. It is a detailed account of the 35-year histories of the top six members of the Vulcans (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Wolfowitz, Armitage, Rice)--"Bush's inner circle of advisers who have a long, shared experience in government, dating back to the Nixon, Ford, Reagan and first Bush administrations." It is an interesting to read in more detail about how these people's histories are connected.

If anyone in America had the government experience to respond to a terrorist attack upon Washington, it was Cheney. As President Ford's deputy chief of staff and then chief of staff, Cheney had mastered the inner workings of White House operations right down to the salt shakers and plumbing. In Congress he had worked on the House Intelligence Committee, learning how the CIA and America's several other intelligence agencies operate. As defense secretary he had been in charge of the U.S. armed forces. Above all, although almost nobody knew it, during the 1980's Cheney had been one of the leading participants in the highly classified planning to maintain continuity of government and set up a new presidential chain of command if America was under nuclear attack. chapter nineteen

More:

At least once a year during the 1980's, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld vanished. Cheney was still working diligently on Capital Hill, and Rumsfeld remained a hard-driving business executive in Chicago. Yet for three of four days at a time, no one in Congress knew where Cheney was, nor could anyone at Rumsfeld's offices locate him. Even their wives were in the dark; they were handed only a mysterious Washington phone number through which they might relay messages in case of emergencies... ...After leaving their day jobs, Cheney and Rumsfeld usually made their way to Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington. From there, in the middle of the night, each man, joined by a team of forty to sixty federal officials and a single member of Ronald Reagan's cabinet, separately slipped away to some remote location in the United States, such as a discarded military base or an underground bunker. A convoy of lead-lined trucks carrying sophisticated communications equipment and other gear made its way to the same location.

Rumsfeld and Cheney were principal figures in one of the most highly classified programs of the Reagan administration. Under it, the administration furtively carried out detailed planning exercise to establish a new American "president" and his staff, outside and beyond the specifications of the U.S. Constitution, in order to keep the federal government running during and after a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Over the years a few details about the existence of this Reagan-era effort have come to light, but not the way it worked or the central roles played by Cheney and Rumsfeld... ...This was not some abstract textbook plan but was practiced in concrete, thorough and elaborate detail. The Reagan administration assigned personnel to three teams...Each team included an experienced leader, who could operate as a new White House chief of staff. The obvious candidates were people who had already served at high level in the executive branch, preferably with experience in the national security apparatus. This was where Cheney and Rumsfeld came in since they had previously served as White House chief of staff in the Ford administration. Besides Cheney and Rumsfeld, who were regulars, other team leaders over the years included James Woolsey, later the director of Central Intelligence, and Kenneth Duberstein, who worked for a time as Reagan's real-life White House chief of staff.

~snip~

... Reagan's secret program set aside these constitutional and statutory requirements under some circumstances; it established its own process for creating a new American president, ignoring the hierarchy of presidential succession established by law... ...Reagan established his continuity of government program under a secret executive order. According to Robert McFarlane, who served for a time as Reagan's national security adviser, the president himself made the final decision on who would head each of the special teams, such as Cheney and Rumsfeld. Within Reagan's National Security Council, the "action officer" for the secret program was Oliver North...Vice President George H. W. Bush was given authority to supervise some of these efforts, which were run by a new government building in the Washington area...and a secret budget...used to buy advanced communications equipment (apparently, some of the info about this secret program came about because of allegations of waste and abuses in awarding these communications contracts to private companies--Emit)


...Cheney and Rumsfeld were familiar with the Armageddon exercises of the Reagan era. They themselves had practiced all the old drills... ...except for Rumsfeld's brief stint as Middle East envoy, neither he nor Cheney ever served in the Reagan administration. Nevertheless, as team leaders Cheney and Rumsfeld played important roles in this project...Moreover, their participation in these Reagan-era exercises demonstrated a broader underlying truth about Cheney and Rumsfeld: Over three decades, from the Ford administration onward, even when they were out of the executive branch of government, they were never too far away; they stayed in touch with its defense, military and intelligence officials and were regularly called upon by those officials. Cheney and Rumsfeld were, in a sense, a part of the permanent, though hidden, national security apparatus of the United States, inhabitants of a world in which presidents may come and go, but America always keeps on fighting.from chapter nine

[no_hypocrisy]

21. Our national economy at this time of history.

1. Federal budget deficit
2. Trade deficit
3. Negative household savings
4. Consumer debt coupled with bankruptcy "reform" (1984 doublespeak)
5. Government borrowing from China, Russia, Japan, etc. in order to finance an unnecessary invasion of another country that has no projected conclusion.
6. Uncontrolled higher property taxes
7. Iranian oil bourse March 20
8. Oil prices volatile based on politics and climate
9. Double-digit permanent job losses as businesses move operations overseas and bring in immigrants to our "Homeland" to take the ones that remain. (Read some essary by Paul Craig Roberts.)

Taken as a whole, this economy is built on credit and a house of cards. All that is needed is lack of confidence on the part of our foreign financiers who sell their debt/trade in their dollars, and it's downhill for us with hyperinflation, more job loss (at least not from outsourcing, but from business failure), and the system potentially breaking down.

[Hutzpa]

25. I have quite a few

9/11, Iraq (WMD). I'm in the MIHOP AND LIHOP group.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. The Ruse That Voters Own Democracy Not Corporations And Political Mafias.

[reprehensor]

49. The 9/11 Commission Report is a Whitewash.

The closer you look, the better the Warren Commission looks.
http://www.gnn.tv/B12001

Here's the latest about Pakistan's alleged influence on the Commission;
http://www.gnn.tv/B13669