If 9/11 changed everything, then the terrorist have already won.

[liberal N proud]

The Democrats need to drive this point home and it will defeat all the republicans running around like chicken little yelling 9/11, 9/11

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I have always thought that, myself

As a matter of fact, I wish the MSM would ban the use of the word "terrorism" or "terrorist" just in defiance. Now, I'm not sure whether we would be defying the "terrorists" overseas or in our own government, but either way....

We make WAY too big a deal out of it when we watch a briefcase blow up on a tarmac for six hours nonstop. It is our entertainment. Terrorism in a nice black box in the livingroom.

Makes me feel guilty for watching 24.

But I'm still watching!

[hfojvt]

18. that reminds me of an episode

of "King of the Hill" which I quickly got tired of watching. Hank cooked a turkey with propane and he was taking it to his in-laws, by plane, to prove the superiority of propane, or his secret recipe. Anyway, the bomb-sniffing dog went nuts over it. So they blew it up while he watched from the plane.

But I think the media and entertainment industry have totally hyped our vulnerability and the threat. "Is our water supply vulnerable? Film at 11." (etc., etc., etc.) Tune in for tonight's episode of the Agency, CSI New York, The Force, etc., etc., where our heroes scramble desperately to stop a devastating terrorist attack.

Of course, they did the same thing with James Bond et. al. in the cold war. I still remember being at my dad's parents and CBS had some special about the Russian military. I was maybe ten years old, and thought it was so cool, those powerful planes - until my mother explained that those were the weapons of our enemies. Then I became physically ill and went outside and sat on the swing in kind of a daze.

[Ufomammut]

2. It was INTENDED to "change everything"

That's why the "terrorists" in DC staged it - they needed a big, splashy "justification" to kick off all of the plans they had been preparing through the 90s. The PNAC openly called for it, and several months after, *whoops* they got what they wanted AND needed.

[marmar]

7. So true....

Which makes it seem less and less like an unexpected event. :tinfoilhat:

[Ufomammut]

15. Nothing "unexpected" about it...

It was required to implement the "National Security State," which is largely code for getting laws passed for "dealing with" the percentage of US citizens who figure out what's happening, or who, at the least, will be actively against the PNAC/Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive war against anyone they see fit to slaughter and control.

[Laelth]

3. 9-11 changed everything ...

only if we let it.

-Laelth

[sutz12]

6. Unfortunately, it looks like we have....

:cry:

[Laelth]

12. Sad, but true.

We sacrificed freedom for imaginary security with the Patriot Act. We launched 2 preemptive wars against nations that had not attacked us. We have allowed the executive branch to invade our privacy, and hardly anybody cares. Indeed, we allowed 9-11 to change a lot of things about us. In my opinion, the change has been for the worse.

-Laelth

[Sammy Pepys]

4. I don't get it...

Why would the terrorists have already won?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. US Patriot Act

refusal for the president to act within the framework of law.

Need I go on?

They have won, they have chanced the country beyond a shadow of a doubt

Incidentally, THAT is the goal, to change a society.

[Sammy Pepys]

13. gotcha n/t

...

[WinkyDink]

14. Well, if their goal was to diminish or even destroy our democracy....

That's what has happened, no?

We have become a nation of pusillanimous fraidy-cats, cowering over some nomadic brigands 2 continents away, gratefully and cravenly accepting an illegal war with torturing done in our name by a psychopathic cabal led by a puerile deranged despot eager to use our fears to bankrupt the nation and kill our young men.

Other than that, everything is Jim Dandy.

[liberal N proud]

17. If you are giving up freedoms due to the acts of 9/11 then

they have won. Terrorist acts are intended to cause others to change their way of life.
Giving up freedom in the name of 9/11 allowed the terrorist to in some way achieve their goal. A less free America.

[harpo]

5. It didn't change everything, but it did change some things

some long overdue type of things.

[Ufomammut]

11. Such as?

Relying on it as the justification for the unprecedented defense/military build up through the 90s when there wasn't a clear "enemy" to contend with in a military economy? That's rather convenient, wouldn't you say? Stage a few "terror" incidents early on, get the ball moving to shift the laws in keeping with a "National Security State," build up the defense budget ...all the while knowing that in 2000, the "right" admin would be "appointed," and not long after, the "justification" to do what it is they were appointed to do in the first place.

[Catchawave]

8. I remember Guiliani asking people

to "come to NYC and shop, see shows...", which I did. :patriot:

I recall the national message was not to change and be afraid. However the past 5+ years has been nothing but one big fear campaign from this administration ?

[sui generis]

10. can't tell you how many hundreds of times I've heard

people say "911 changed everything" and used it for the most absurd bullshit intrusiveness.

When I consulted for Capital One, they put me through the millionth degree; in fact I thought they were going to require a pap smear and three references from each of my great grandparents, and when I finally had enough to snap at the troglodytes, the director of security said "911 changed everything, we have to make sure we're not hiring a terrorist"

Umm. Sweetie. Not a terrorist. I didn't get that resume by being a terrorist and suddenly woke up one morning with the destruction of America in mind.

They didn't like me AT ALL, but then it was Capital One, Lair of The Hive Mind.

Isn't it odd that the little skeery republican monkeys are the ones most prone to use that phrase to justify being shivery little poop flinging monkeys?

[AndyA]

16. Exactly - the TERRORISTS HAVE WON!

They have changed the American way of life. We are no longer free, we are spied on, our rights have been taken away from us, and we are a country divided.

The terrorists may not have carried out another attack on American soil since 9/11, but they have indeed won, with the help of the Republicans and George Bush.

Weak on terror = George Bush and the Republicans

[Ufomammut]

19. Yes and no

The "terrorists" in DC haven't "won" anything that We The People haven't foolishly been willing to concede. It always takes two to tango in such power struggles ...problem is, not enough of you have figured out yet that you are their primary enemy, because you have the potential to overthrow them, or at least apply enough pressure to hollowed institutions that they'll be forced to mitigate their policies, and shove the fascist genie back into the bottle - at least for a while.

[johnnie]

20. I agree

It was said early on "You are either with us or against us", and I don't think it was specifically geared only toward the "terrorists".

9/11 did change a lot of things, and mainly those things are only when the working class liberals are concerned.

[paparush]

21. We have entered the eternal night...

The US has changed forever. We the people will NEVER regain control of this country. Rove et al have covered every angle. Read the DU front page "NSA makes reporting President's crimes an actionable offense punishable by prison time" Jesus H. F#cking Christ!!

They have taken free elections away from the people. (voting machines, Diebold, etc..)
They are openly spying on the people.
They smear/destroy their enemies, and friends who dare dissent, with equal malice (Kerry, McCain, Cleland, etc...)
They have converted the MSM into propoganda mouthpieces.
They have institutionalized never-ending war.
They have rewritten facts and made science taboo.
They push a conservative, fear based 'religion'.
They are unaccountable for their crimes.

I wish I could hold out hope for the '06 midterm elections, but with no REAL voting reform having taken place, I think the '06 midterms will be another sham.

[savemefromdumbya]

22. you mean the Bush administration are trying to change everything

9/11 inside job