If we don't go for the throat now, we deserve everything we get.

[tjwash]

Even an MSGOP poll is broadly in the Dems favor:

Question of the day: What do you think of Sen. Feingold's proposal to censure Pres. Bush?

13648 votes

Political grandstanding--26%

A way to hold him accountable--74%

Call your Senators, Congressmen, everyone you can get a hold of, and hammer this one. Don't know who they are? No problem, here is where you can look up your Senator's phone number, and here is where you can look up your Representative's phone number.

The Dems need to show some backbone, and get behind this. People are sick of Bush's mismanagement of our country, especially after Katrina, and the attempted port deal. We are never going to have another time to where the average person will actually be receptive to pointing out Bush's failures, and not just dismiss it as "political sniping". And for the record, to hell with these people that think this is just "playing politics" anyway. Do they think this is some sort of a game or something? The Gettysburg address, the New Deal, Women's Suffrage and Civil Rights were politics as well. That's how our system works. That is how we get laws passed here. If you don't like it, stick around and let these bastards erase political discourse, like they are attempting to do at the present.

Do not let anyone on the fence lose track that the main issue we are fighting for here, is that the 4th Amendment and FISA clearly render the NSA issue illegal and unconstitutional,and we can not let this corrupt administration write itself a new law that allows them to be above the same constitution that they swore to uphold and defend. There is a long record of jurisprudence on both the constitutional and statutory issues, and the American people are angry, and fed up enough to listen. So let's go for the throat damn it. If not now, when? I want to see the Republicans get so flustered by this, that they start calling everyone traitors. It's all they've got left.

[tatertop]

1. We'll press the issue until they use the grown-up-voice on us

then we will fall back into line

[redqueen]

2. Yet even here... people shrug it off.

'Censure? Why? It won't matter... it won't help anything...'

*sigh*

[tjwash]

5. I know.

Just look at Conyers and his H Res 635 colleagues and supporters.

[Southsideirish]

8. But anything that humiliates bush is a good thing. We all agree on that

surely.

[redqueen]

10. IMO it's not about humiliating that waste.

It's more about ensuring that we do all we can to make it known that there actually IS an opposition party... and that all the impeachable offenses he's comitted are not being ignored... at least not by SOME.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. You have to keep several things in mind

1) We have a lot of Democratic Senators from red states.
2) This and most other polls are national polls and don't reflect that some states are a lot more skewed than others.
3) Putting together #1 and #2 means that "backbone" has nothing to do with the equation when it comes to vulnerable red state Democratic Senators in an election year, namely the Nelson twins.

[tjwash]

7. Unless they are from Idaho or Utah...

...that's not a valid reason, and they need to do us a favor and switch parties then.

And backbone has a hell of a lot to do with it. I'm sick of them showing nothing in that regard. I am as cynical and as pissed off about the Dems as anyone, and right now I am sitting here thinking not IF the congressional Dems are going to throw Feingold under the bus on this one, but WHEN, and that is very sad.

How many "this is it, this is the one that wakes everyone up" moments have we had the last few months?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Nebraska's just as bad as Idaho and Utah.

And Florida's getting there.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. I beg to differ about Florida

We just have a LOT of old people. Old people tend to be conservative.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Yep, and there are more and more old people entering Florida every day.

Which is making Florida redder and redder every day. That's my point.

[tjwash]

17. Come on now, here is the map...

...and if you live in seriously red area,I can see your point. However, most of you are not alone out there. Especially you Florida, you are a lot like California. Stop blaming the elderly folks,and start looking at the shrubs brother that is the governer of the state.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. If you look at the map

you will see the blue in my area, because of the universities and state capital. Then the reddest areas are down in Live Oak, Lake City. That is a very, very rural area and not very populated. The rest of the state is purple or blue on the south coast. Remember we almost went blue in 2000.

Jeb Bush is not a popular governor by any means, including with Republicans. Teachers can't stand him and either can anyone in government. His daughter is a drug addict, which has turned a lot of his base against him. And his wife is simply never seen. She has a very bad language problem..when she speaks her accent is so heavy she can barely be understood. If he could run again, which he can't, I don't think he would win.

Now, one aspect of the population that is growing and is conservative is the Latin vote. They have lots of babies and they are Catholic.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. Well, I'm told (no link) that Florida is no longer

number one choice for oldsters because of the hurricanes. I hear North and South Carolina and Arizona are topping the list for retirement from the more populated areas.

[blm]

4. Completely behind censure - as long as it isn't presented as alternative

to impeachment proceedings.

[rpgamerd00d]

6. done

[jus_the_facts]

11. Mary Landrieu is a traitor with her head up *'s ass....

...she votes against that (D-La.) behind her name every chance she gets...regardless of the outcry from us peons who got her elected...Louisiana is *gettin' what we deserve* most definitely. :nopity:

[tjwash]

15. Don't feel bad, we have a D that is married to a defense contractor...

...as as our Senator for California (Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.)), and votes for every pro-war pile of shit that comes before her.

So I feel your pain...

[Dogmudgeon]

14. I half agree -- I think this is a long-term change

I half disagree because, of course, it is a long-term change in attitudes, not a now-or-never moment. The Republican Party has so thoroughly disredited itself that it will take a long time for it to repair the damage to its reputation.

I'm NOT suggesting that we slack off, by any means. This is the time for action, for coalition building, for outreach, for realignments. The Golden Opportunity opened up a few months ago, and is ours for the exploitation.

My main criticism of the rank-and-file at DU is that we spend far too much time griping about "backbone". We ought to be out there providing that backbone ourselves, and those of us who are qualified for it ought to run for office. Also, many Democrats now in government only need a little direct support for that backbone to get solidified, so pick up the phone, or at least write some e-mail urging strong action and pledging support. Party-building is what makes the difference. And it wouldn't be the first time that The People have had to provide an example to the leadership. That's one of the things about America I like best.

This is The Time. Do we step up and seize the moment, or hope that our professional representatives can read our minds and seize it themselves?

I have Republican Senators (Specter and Santorectum) and a Republican Representative (Fitzpatrick). Fitzpatrick, at least, is accessible, and Specter may be favorably inclined to support a censure motion. I intend to write to them anyway.

And, yes, I will be polite. After all, somebody has to show them how an adult behaves.

--p!

[tjwash]

16. 39%. And that's on a Fox News poll. CBS has him as low as 33%.

But stick with the 39% for a second. At his lowest, when everyone wanted to tar and feather him, and run him out of DC on a rail Richard Nixon didn't get as low as 39%.

During the BS impeachment fiasco, Bill Clinton didn't come near to that low a number either.

Now if we don't like it, we should run for office and change it? I am just hoping there are offices to RUN for after the next couple of years.

And yes, we here at DU have a perfect right to complain about backbone. These are people we elected to represent us, not the corporate status-quo. It started when the Dems distanced themselves from Bill Clinton in the late 90's, it continued through this march to war, the Downing Street Memo, the outing of Valerie Plame, the renewal of the patriot act, the illegal wiretapping, and it is currently happening now with the refusal to back John Murtha through his swift-boating, and about a dozen other things I could go into.

So if NOT a now or never moment, when will it be? After Bush passes a law that says he can do anything he wants, and anyone who questions him goes to jail? Is that when the Dems will finally get pissed off enough to do something?