Conyers is WAY ahead of Feingold when it comes to the censure of Bush

[KittyWampus]

Conyers has been putting together the pieces for impeachment. Slowly but surely. He's put a lot of time and effort into gathering evidence.

And I'm not convinced that Feingold's little bit of political theater helps Conyers in any tangible way...

[blm]

1. I support censure, but only if it isn't meant to end impeachment process.

When Feingold opined that censure was appropriate while impeachment was radical, I worried that his remark was pre-judging impeachment.

[KittyWampus]

4. I forgot to mention the efforts on the part of various states and locales

to set the impeachment wheel in motion.

[babylonsister]

7. Perhaps baby steps, blm? It's all good imo. nt

[JohnnyCougar]

13. But we know now that this is not Feingold's position

Since he repeatedly stated that impeachment is the end result here.

Why you continue to misrepresent his position is beyond me.

[Swamp Rat]

40. I saw and heard him say that.

:)

SUPPORT FEINGOLD

AND CONYERS!!!

[blm]

44. I didn't misstate his position - I hope HE misstated his position on MSNBC

when he said censure was the appropriate remedy while impeachment was radical.

I didn't make that up - he said it. I hope he misspoke.

[DaveinMD]

2. it was just a ploy

for his Presidential bid. Nothing more.

[Cocoa]

5. Conyers is running for president?

:-)

[DaveinMD]

14. ha Feingold

[babylonsister]

6. I don't think so. I think Feingold is honestly appalled at

this wiretapping/SPYING shit that's been going on, as am I.
I love Kerry, but I can't take anything away from Feingold for trying to
do something.

[KittyWampus]

8. What do you think this honestly does? I am seriously asking

and not being snide.

[ClassWarrior]

11. Nothing. You're right. Let's all give up.

:eyes:

NGU.

[babylonsister]

17. It brings the word 'censure' out into the open for discussion.

Conyers tried censure, impeachment, DSM, etc. with not much of a groundswell.
Now, because Finegold brought this to the fore, at least it's getting some play.
Every time these words are issued, and the more comfortable people get with them,
the easier it will be to act on them, which I sincerely believe must happen.

[JohnnyCougar]

19. ^^^EXACTLY^^^

I couldn't have said it better.

[KittyWampus]

20. Why didn't he use the word "Impeachment" then? Isn't Censure what you

settle for when efforst to impeach have failed?

[ClassWarrior]

24. That's pre-9/11 thinking...

For being the "intelligent" party, it never fails to amaze me how rigid and doctrinaire people around here are.

NGU.

[babylonsister]

25. From what I've read, impeachment starts w/the house

which explains Conyers' efforts. This is a step towards impeachment; baby steps, but it's something.

[goclark]

43. Well said, you should

start your own post.

I am shocked by the lack of posts that are even dealing with this issue.

Feingold took a BIG step yesterday.
Why can't we give him credit or that..remember Muerta, media said he was crazy and a lot of people gave into that ~ he was RIGHT!

[JohnnyCougar]

Sure...

Bringing the crimes of the Bush administration to the forefront of the political debate and making a great, long needed speech on the Senate floor is just a ploy.

Whatever. So much for Dem unity.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DaveinMD]

15. hardly a troll

moves like this accomplish nothing. As has been said, Conyers has been going about this the right way. Building the case. Slow and steady wins the race.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Conyers is in the House. The House...

...acts on impeachment. The Senate has no role in it until a President is impeached. Considering Feingold is in the Senate, he has no role in impeachment. Nonetheless, he was able to force the issue a little further down the field. Slow and steady wins the race, right?? Maybe you'd rather he just shut up and stayed in his seat?

NGU.

[midnight]

3. Every little bit

helps. We need to expose our concerns at every opportunity. This Senator is brave and had an opportunity to voice his concerns and ours over wire tapping us illegally.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Yeah, DAMN Feingold for speaking the truth! The BASTARD!!

:eyes:

NGU.

[jbnow]

12. Political theater?

Look...the illegal wiretapping story faded with the port story. Media wasn't reporting on it, investigations were halted on it, laws were being proposed to make it legal, have 7 members of congress provide "oversight" without being able to say a word about it. The end.

Now people are looking and talking again. They might notice what congress does.

I love Conyers, he is from my state. He does so much and so well. But he is in the minority and because it is the House little media attention.

I'm sure Conyers would love to see this move to enable the presidents crime slowed down too. I'm sure he'd think anything that helps America helps him.

No one getting press was calling bush out on this. You call it "little bit of political theater", that's what "they" say about Conyers hearings and investigations too. I admire them both and I have for a long time, they are doing what they can.

How would we be further ahead if Feingold hadn't spoken out? He spoke clearly, he spoke for me.

[KittyWampus]

22. So they are now talking censure FOR A DAY and not about impeachment

so has Feingold move the ball forward on impeachment?

[EFerrari]

27. Yes, because it's more than happened yesterday.

And think of all those possible clips from his speech, his calm, sensible, easily understood speech.

Russ moved us ahead today, no doubt.

[ClassWarrior]

29. drip... drip... drip...

Every drip is precious.

NGU.

[jbnow]

35. In an earlier post you wrote

"why didn't he use the word "Impeachment" then?"

He did mention that word "Impeachment".

But this is about more then talking about censure or impeachment. It is to bring out the president broke and is breaking the law. It is to get the illegal wiretapping back on the table.

Good Lord it was all being swept under the table. Attention is back on it. If it took a call for censure to do it, fine. If he had just made a speech about wiretapping no one would pay attention. When it is part of a call for censure it got attention.

Neither censure nor impeachment have a chance right now with no majority. But if Feingold waited until after November there would already be a legal shield for bush.

[JohnnyCougar]

16. It probably does help.

Feingold can't start impeachment anyway, since he is in the Senate.

I'm sure it helps Conyers, too. Putting Bush's obvious crimes in the forefront of the national debate is very important regarding the public's perception of the seriousness of Bush's crimes. Feingolds actions certainly do help those of John Conyers.

[KittyWampus]

23. Thank you for stating your perspective. I hope you are correct!

[dweller]

18. Conyer's frontpage

Stand with Congressman Conyers
Demand an Investigation of Impeachable Offenses
http://johnconyers.com/

link to online: Constitution in Crisis
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/5769


rock on John!
dp

[C_U_L8R]

21. I'd love to see

every day.. a different senator or representative
stands up for censure or impeachment.
Every day.

[spuddonna]

31. That's a BEAUTIFUL idea!!!

:D Me likey! :D

[ClassWarrior]

34. I had that same thought today.

Great minds and all that... B-):thumbsup:

NGU.

[savemefromdumbya]

26. what happened with Conyers censure?

[babylonsister]

30. Not a flippin' thing. No one paid attention. nt

[savemefromdumbya]

41. Is Conyers going to have another go at them?

[babylonsister]

45. It's an ongoing issue with him.

His website is pretty good, and he's been good about blogging, too.


www.johnconyers.com

[TreasonousBastard]

32. Yeah, I was yelled at in another thread...

for saying Feingold's little Noh play was just a flash in the pan and ultimately had no point since there was absolutey no chance of censure passing, if it even came to a vote. All it did was screw up the plans Reid, Pelosi, and the rest of the crew were working on.

Too many people around have absolutely no conception of just how difficult it is for a party to function with a minority in both houses and the White House calling the shots. For a lesson on how to do it right, look at how Schumer took the port deal and blew it up. Gifts like the port deal are few and far between, and Feingold's timing for another hit like that was way off. He shoulda known better.

[ClassWarrior]

33. "The plans Reid, Pelosi, and the rest of the crew were working on??"

C'mon, dish! What do you know about these plans they were working on? Spill the beans...

And why does there have to be a "chance of censure passing" for this to have a positive impact?

NGU.

[TreasonousBastard]

36. Being in the minority, and...

having little chance of getting anything substantial done, they're all slowly using parliamentary tricks to get hearings and some press notice. Nobody supported Feingold on this because they knew it would end up as it did-- a quick flash in the pan for the choir and a few news junkies, and then it's dead.

If he'd waited and gone through the motions, like everyone else wanted to, there would have been some debate about censure, and it may have gotten some legs, maybe even enough to help this November. At the very least a good pissing match with Frist, which is always a good time and guaranteed to drop him a notch in the public eye.

But, nooooo, Feingold had to rush into it and it's all over before it started.

Everyone can cry all they want and write letters till their little fingers fall off, but Feingold blew it, and that's all there is to it.

Better to spend the energy on getting some more Democrats in Congress this year instead of whining about the ones already there.

[babylonsister]

38. I, for one, am SICK of debate!

Nobody supported Feingold? We don't really know that yet. I'll give my mea culpas when that happens.
Having said that, someone needs to call a spade a spade, and that would be concerning our current
disaster in the wh. He is evil, dangerous, and needs to be stopped any which way he can be.

[Just Me]

37. I respect/admire/thank both. I can do that!!!!

I want to see us ALL join arms and march right over this abusive, criminal regime. I believe we'll get there.

Meanwhile, every/any one fighting this lot of crooks is in my "bible" for democracy. :bounce:

[OneBlueSky]

39. I applaud ANY Democrat (or anyone else) who stands up and . . .

at least tries to tell the truth about BushCo and what they're doing to this country and to the planet . . .

because there sure as hell ain't very many of 'em . . .

[Beelzebud]

42. Let's just EAT OUR OWN at every opportunity! Why fight fascism

when we can just fight each other!!!!!