Tammy Faye On Larry King - Fear of Death- Religion

[Erika]

Tammy was crying about dying and that she may die in her sleep. The tears were flowing. She's now at Stage 4 cancer. She looks really bad.

A caller asked her why she was so afraid of dying since religious people felt the afterlife was a much better place.

She went into one big circling mode. She said at first because it was human selfishness and she asked God to forgive her for this selfishness. Then she spun that God made humans to have that selfishness or we wouldn't eat a potato a day, if that's all we had, to stay alive.
It was God's doing that we are selfish humans who fear the afterlife? She circled faster than anyone I've ever seen.

I suggest that she is scared to death that maybe the God she professes belief in is real, and she knows that building dog houses with heating and air-conditioning while taking from the poor, might not meet His criteria of living a Godly/Christian life.

I've always been amazed at the fear, dread, and abhorrence right-wingers show about death. Their exception is execution by the state.

Maybe they are also afraid God might be real, and they know in their souls God/Christ didn't really want them bombing innocents and amassing wealth at the cost to the poor. It is their fear/prison.

[necso]

1. The fear of death is a major part

of this rapture nonsense being so popular.

The lucky ones, you see, don't have to die... as long as the rapture is at hand.

...And it almost always seems to be so.

[Radio_Lady]

26. OT: I can't bring up Warpy's message, below. Not sure why.

I just get a blank screen saying DONE in the bottom left.

???????????????????????????

[Radio_Lady]

36. Warpy, I liked your message -- when I finally got to read it!

I know they're fixing stuff at the DU, but has anyone else had problems with bringing up an individual message in a thread?

[Warpy]

2. I've seen a lot of death

and, generally speaking, the ones who profess to love god the most are the ones who least want to meet up with him.

I think it's the whole idea of being judged by some nasty naked malevolent Santa Claus sitting on a cloud in a green eyeshade, going through a list of all your sins, one by one, with everybody watching. What a horrible idea of an afterlife! People really seem to believe that one, too.

My dad told me just before he died that he'd finally rejected "all that Sunday school stuff" about what it was going to be like. I told him that I'd been close once, and that the feeling of letting go of everything was a wonderful one. He seemed to take comfort from that, and his passing was fairly easy when it came.

The only thing we all know is that we don't know. It's hard not to feel sorry for fundies when their time comes, and for their fundy families. Whether we go on to an afterlife, a rebirth, or just float into nonexistence on a tide of happy hormones, it seems horribly cruel to ruin it with scary stories of brutal judgment.

I do know if all I find when I die is that mean old white man on a cloud, I am going to be very disappointed in the cosmos.

[Mythsaje]

3. I was actually pleasantly surprised

when I saw her on The Surreal Life. She was actually a really good sport about some of it, though I do remember she went into a spin about something or another.

Death is frightening for a lot of people, faith or no faith.

[Erika]

4. Why should death be frightening if it is natural?

No other living creature worries about it. We know it's coming. I've always been surprised when deaths are treated as a shocking thing.

[Mythsaje]

5. How do we KNOW that no other living creature

worries about it? Elephants and some marine mammals have been witnessed mourning the death of one of their fellows. That indicates some consideration of death...whether they WORRY about it is open to debate, I suppose.

And even it's natural, it's still frightening because it's the great unknown. No one really knows what comes next, or even if anything comes next. Religious sentiments notwithstanding.

[MnFats]

6. I'm with you. Animals often pick a private spot to die...

and as to Tammy Faye's fear....even the rock solid fundies have their doubts.
Even Thomas couldn't believe until he put his hand through Jesus' wound.

[Erika]

8. Does what comes next matter if you are dead, burnt, or buried?

Mourning for the loss of a loved one, or loneliness caused by that loss, does not indicate a fear in one's own death. In my opinion.

[Mythsaje]

10. It shows a recognition of death...

You tie that together with a natural self-preservation response shared by most creatures, and, well, you can draw a conclusion from that. It's certainly POSSIBLE that some proto-sentient creatures may have some conscious fear of death.

[Erika]

13. what natural self-preservation?

Most animals who are wounded go off to die quitely and dignified.

[Mythsaje]

14. They flee from danger?

Seems pretty obvious to me.

And some animals that are seriously injured DO crawl of to die alone. But dogs will often run TO people they're close to for comfort instead.

[Erika]

15. It has nothing to do with the fear of afterlife questions

Dogs are far more domesticated than other animals. It does not mean they have an insight into nature, just the opposite.

I have known many people who are absolutely terrified of dying. I simply don't know why. Yes, I have been faced with that once. What will be will be. I'm not in control.
All of us will be dead and with in two or three decades of our death, we will not be remembered whatsoever.

[Mythsaje]

17. You speak with far too much certainty about things

I truly believe none of us can be certain about.

[Erika]

22. I speak from my experience as an animal lover

and as one who lost her 24 year old sister when I was 21 and many other deaths.

The certainty is that we all die, it is part of nature, and as human animals it is up to us whether we choose to fear it or accept it as part of nature.

Then religion is factored in. But the reality is that if we choose to do nothing here to be remembered by, we will be forgotten in a few short decades.

[Mythsaje]

23. It's all subjective, though...

We see these things through our own perceptions.

I'm not willing to say that some animals don't fear death. I don't know they don't. I'm not a big fan of absolutes. When we're talking about things like this I'm simply not sure and I'm pretty much willing to bet there's no real evidence either way.

I'm not afraid of death either.

[Erika]

24. I had an old dog who went blind

I didn't even notice it until I held up my hands to say the food I had was all gone and he couldn't expect a handout. He didn't back off like he normally did. Then I put a box into a walkway and he ran into it.

I never respected that dog more. He was totally blind, but that didn't alter his personality or habits one bit. We played the same games, altered by me for his handicap, and lived out his last year with happiness. He never spent one second in self pity or discussing an adjustment period. We just worked it out together.

He had total dignity to the end. He didn't have fear or worry. He just trusted that it would be like it always was. It was. When he had a vicious stroke, we told the vet to let him go and we held him to the end.

True dignity on his part. Nature is nature.

[Mythsaje]

25. Dogs are amazing critters...

Their trust in us can be absolute, as long as we earn it. But having worked in canine rescue for a number of years, I've seen that they can be prone to irrational fears too.

Our biggest dog is a 55 lb Chow/Jindo cross who was a rescue...she was beaten by a kid who worked at a shelter, and she still despises people in uniforms, and isn't all that trusting of men. Even though she's been with us almost two years now, if I walk towards her with anything in my hands, she shrinks away, though I've certainly never done anything to her. I can't imagine why anyone would have. She's an absolute sweetheart...one of the gentlest dogs I've ever known.

I'll never have her complete trust like my wife does...simply because I'm male and she associates that with what was done to her.

We usually work with Shibas, who are amazingly head-shy, and real distrusting of things they don't recognize. A neighbor once erected one of those inflatable snowmen in his yard within sight of our living room window and my Shiba would stand at the window and growl and mutter at it until I finally took him up to see what it was.

He hates fireworks (something he developed, actually, since when he was a pup he was more curious about them than anything). I still don't know what happened with that, though I suppose it's possible he got it from another Shiba we had in the house for a while who started out that way. That particular dog was claustraphobic, and one of the prime reasons I believe dogs can not only feel guilt, but can feel guilt for a considerable amount of time. There's a section on him on the Pet Page of my website, along with several others of the dogs that have come through our home at various times, if you're curious. (The link's in my sig-line).

[Hamlette]

28. I'm very frightened of death

I've seen too many people suffer. What happens after doesn't frighten me at all. I know where I'm "going". It's the getting there that is painful. And it's more than the physical pain, I don't want to be a burden to my family. I don't want to be psycho or mean to people I love.

Been too close...to too many lingering deaths.

[Erika]

30. I had a dear friend who died of lung cancer when he was 60

Never smoked. He was transferred to the Hospice unit of a nursing home. His cancer had mastecised. I stayed with him, covering up his stimulation of his own genitals, and trying to calm him until the doctor prescribed drip morphine. He was dead in 12 hours.

[Radio_Lady]

37. My successful uterine surgery re-introduced me to comforting medications.

I just hope they use them liberally at the end of my life.

It was just plain sad to see Tammy Faye now. She is taking morphine by mouth, plus another narcotic, I believe, and claims she is in constant pain. I'm not one of her followers, mind you. But it was very upsetting to see her trying to be brave on national television.

She clearly doesn't want to go to a hospice, but I think that I do. Let other professionals care for me at the end, so my family can be relieved of the stress and pain. Dying in my own home just seems too weird to me. I wouldn't want to impose that on my children or my husband. (He has already lost one wife, in 1971, at age 34, to cancer.

By the way, we bought long-term care insurance several years ago. We all want go out with dignity and perhaps the extra money will insure that. Who knows?

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

[Hamlette]

38. and you're not firightened?

maybe 12 hours wasn't long enough? I did 6 years with my Dad. 1.5 years with my favorite aunt (we were close) and 3 years with a dear friend. Long. Painful. Incidently, all of these people were in favor of taking the magic pill when the time came. Only one did. The other two had lost their minds in the sense they thought they were perfectly fine. My dear sweet dad had said he wanted to end it when it got bad (as so many of us do) but when it got bad, my mom tried to talk to him about it. He was so out of it he thought all he needed was a nap and he would be fine. He thought my mom nuts to have brought it up.

Even the short ones, you never know. My best friend was found dead in her bed age 42. No illness. Never could find a cause of death. But her husband was out of town on business and she was sleeping alone and I wonder if she was awake and knew what was happening, and I worry that she was scared especially because she was alone. Even if there was no physical pain, knowing I will never see my son's smiling face again is very painful.

Scares me plenty (I'd say "to death" but...well...you know.)

[Raine]

35. I watched that too

and came away liking her. Tammy seemed really sweet and she was very open minded about things and tolerant. I think she only had a problem when they had some party with lots of nudity but she didn't stop them she just stayed in her room and let the others do what they wanted.

[upi402]

7. sure hope there really IS a hell

:evilgrin:
Exploiting fear filled people out of their hard earned money is a one-way ticket if ever there was.

[Erika]

11. Yep and can you imagine a crooked CEO who stole pensions

from their employees sitting next to them in heaven breaking manna and being good buds together? This can be extended out to many different situations.

If their is a heaven and hell, logic follows that there must be a day of reckoning to define who goes where.

God/Christ might not be capitalists and support the rich CEOs while the employees pensions were lost or cut.

[dweller]

9. oy! is she going to be surprised

next time around ...

she's already chosen her karma.
dp

[ruggerson]

12. she may have to come back as tammy faye n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Afraid they are right, afraid they are wrong --

it's really immaterial. The fundamental basis of religion is fear. It is what it is based on, and what it exploits. It started as fear of the dark, fear of lightning, fear of a dangerous world because of all the primitive creatures on a primitive earth only Man was cursed with the imagination to contemplate what isn't there.

After six million years of evolution, we are only 10,000 years removed from the caveman, howling at the moon.

No offense to the whores, but the world's oldest profession is the priest, the shaman, the witchdoctor who can control other people by telling them where the sun goes at night, and what happens to a person when the light in the eyes goes out -- lies, from the beginning of time, because they never were there, and they don't know any more than anyone else. And since the beginning of time, they were the only ones who knew the truth, for all time and all people, just as they do today, and if you dare to challenge them you must be taught fear.

No wonder * is so successful with his Fear Fear Fear campaigns. We've been prepared for it by our priests for 10,000 years.

[upi402]

18. Yep, 'fear' and 'hate' for the out-group.

Works on the peasants everytime if not informed otherwise.
Media traitors must pay:mad:
It extends into the fascist direction of today.

[Erika]

20. Excellent post. Fear controls religion

Give to your religious figure. They like living the good life and traveling the world on your dollars. They like their investments in S African diamond mines where the locals are ambushed daily as they work to profit the ownership.

Then the religious right targets the poor, the gays, in this country for discrimination and harassment.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

19. It's the the fear of death that she is afraid of...

It's the fear of the unknown.

[Erika]

21. The unknown is outlined in the Bible

If she believes in a God that will judge her, then she must fear the unknown (or maybe she fears the known). You know collecting from the poor to give your pets air conditioning in their houses, is a bit much. All in the name of God.

We have so many rich while we have so many destitute. But, there is one equalizer, we all will die. Will the CEO's who profited while they stole the pensions of the workers be judged by St.Peter?
Again, if there is a heaven and a hell, there has to be decisions made on who goes where.

Thanks, all for the discussion, we will all die. It's what we do in this world which matters. The Republicans can talk all they want. They haven't been out there uplifting those in our society in need. Including W.

[NVMojo]

27. wow, what a patheticly sad witness for the glorious afterlife

fundies believe in the rapture but not an early out?

[Erika]

29. Yeah.

The afterlife thought scares them. They might truly be judged. Explaining all those air conditioned houses for pets while ripping off the poor might bring up a few questions on morality. No wonder Tammy is scared.

[OneBlueSky]

31. death is like puberty . . .

just a normal (and universal) transition in the human experience . . . a little more radical that puberty maybe -- but still just one more change that we all go through . . .

when puberty happens, of course, we all know what outcome to expect . . . it's the not knowing that instills irrational fear about death . . .

[Erika]

32. When death happens

Are we judged by the Bible or do we just end our existence as is shown by our body?

[OneBlueSky]

34. beats me . . . :) n/t

.

[KitchenWitch]

33. To fundies the unknown = evil

They fear things they do not understand and label them as evil. This is their MO. And the more people they can convince of this, the less they have to face that this fear is just fear and not the pure evil they believe it is.

[kevinbgoode]

39. The only death Rightwingers ever fear is their own

They certainly have no problem promoting death to others.

[noonwitch]

40. Tammy Faye is not so bad, she's actually pretty decent

She's just not very smart, so she's not a good person to use as some kind of theological example. I really think Jim was responsible for most of the PTL scamming, not her. She benefitted, yes, but was mostly unaware of the abuses.

She can laugh at herself-her portraying Mimi's mother on the Drew Carey Show is a good example of that. She has never condemned gays, and is very good friends with many gay men (I know, she's camp).

I feel bad for anyone who is suffering from cancer. She doesn't deserve that kind of pain. Few people do.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

41. I will stand up for Tammy Faye ---

Have you ever heard her speak about gays and lesbians? She is the ONE "fundie christian" of the TV variety who has come out and said that God loves gays and lesbians just as they are, and that she is completely supportive of them. She actually (gasp!) spoke like a true Christian -- with compassion, understanding, and acceptance.

I will give her this: she is always upbeat, she laughs at herself easily, and she's willing to admitt she is scared to die -- in other words, she's human.

She has my gratitude for expressing her care and concern for my friends, and my wished for an easy transition.

[wicket]

42. I love her for that

n/t