You're either with Feingold and Conyers OR YOU ARE A TRAITOROUS, ...

[understandinglife]

... NEOCONSTER, BUSHIT, CORPORATIST WAR CRIMINAL.

CLEAR.

PERIOD.

Sun Tzu: "On hemmed-in ground, resort to stratagem. On desperate ground, FIGHT.

I'm now ONLY IN FIGHTING MODE.

Our Republic is endangered and no other response is responsible.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION -- 24/7

[sam sarrha]

1. if they go for censure and it fails it will hurt impeachment attempts

[understandinglife]

6. N O T

[Viva_La_Revolution]

15. I disagree

at least this made the news for 5 minutes.

[yurbud]

21. it will raise public awareness and be difficult to ignore and...

if it fails with Bush's numbers so low, it is far more likely to reflect badly on the GOP than on the Democrats.

[Mr_Spock]

22. bah - it just keeps the idea of wrongdoing in the press & Congress

I disagree.

[Hutzpa]

26. On what grounds you disagree?

Is there a better approach that you know

[Mr_Spock]

32. I agree with Feingold

I disagree with the poster who says censure will interfere with impeachment.

[mom cat]

88. First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then you win!

[Garbo 2004]

28. Not logical. Since the votes aren't there for impeachment, how can

a bid for censure, regardless of outcome, hurt any attempt for impeachment which doesn't have the votes anyway? It's a Repub dominated Congress, so impeachment will not have the votes, regardless.

[arcane1]

29. gotta keep that powder dry

:eyes:

[EST]

33. This is the senate. Impeachment starts in the house or in the

individual states. Censure means "booosh, we know you lied, cheated and broke the law. If we had a decent congress, you would be forcibly removed from office, tried, convicted and imprisoned or executed. Since we have too many of your fellow criminals in office to do the right thing, we demand that you acknowledge your errors and guarantee you will mend your ways." Also, this censure motion, and its attendant attention and discussion, will keep the criminality of the administration in focus for a far longer time than waiting and hoping for a dem majority in both houses, as required for impeachment.

Also, Russ's walking immediately out of the chamber and tag teaming with Durbin short circuited the majority demand for immediate dispensation of the action and drew far more attention than anything else would have done. In the mean time, the lies, coverups, misdirection and false dichotomy/straw man arguments of the reich-wing criminals will be even more exposed to an awakening public.

[understandinglife]

42. "Also, Russ's walking immediately out of the chamber and tag teaming with

... Durbin short circuited the majority demand for immediate dispensation of the action and drew far more attention than anything else would have done. In the mean time, the lies, coverups, misdirection and false dichotomy/straw man arguments of the reich-wing criminals will be even more exposed to an awakening public."

Perfect!

Thank you.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION - 24/7

[EST]

45. You are welcome.

[goclark]

77. Yes! Feingold left them hanging

With dry mouth Spector gasping for air.

He had no backbone or case.

Feingold was masterful and we need to support his efforts.

[Just Me]

59. It was one of the best strategic moves I've seen from the Dems!!!

The freakin' right-wingers play dirty and cheat all the darn time. The Dems have to be more strategically aggressive with these buttheads JUST so the information about unconstitutional and criminal behavior can get to the public.

Feingold is da' man!!! :applause: He RRRRRROCKS!!!!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hissyspit]

47. When we go for impeachment we will be able to say "Well, we TRIED

censure and you rejected it."

[Donald Ian Rankin]

56. I don't think impeachment is worth taking into account

Bush is not going to be impeached, and an attempt to do so would damage the Democrats more than him. The three questions to ask on censure are

1) How likely to work is it
2) Will it help or harm the Democrats electoral chances if it succeeds
3) " " " " " " " " fails

My suspicion is that the answers are "very unlikely" (as the Republicans have majorities in both houses) "help a little" (it makes the democrats look effectual, although it gives the Republican "Party of no" talking point more ammo) and "harm a little" (it makes the democrats look still more ineffectual) and as such I think it's probably a bad idea, but I'm far from confident on any of those. I am fairly sure that those are the right questions to be asking, though.

[dogday]

57. I believe Censure will open the door with investigation

which in turn could lead to impeachment

[jsamuel]

72. oh PLEASE! Are you an expert on censuring presidents?

and that vote Feingold gave against the patriot act was "supposed" to backfire according to the same kind of argument. BULL.

[Joanne98]

98. No! Even if it fails it will prepare the public for impeachment!

Murkins need a LONG time to get ready!

[gekeeley]

2. Hallejuah...

Praise the Feingold-Conyers tenacity and devotion to justice.

[chicofaraby]

3. The choice is simple.

Do you support censure or do you support secret, warrantless spying on Americans in their homes.

If it takes you more than 1 minute to decide, the hell with you.

[LincolnMcGrath]

5. 60 seconds seems too long....

:toast:

[understandinglife]

11. Welcome to DU. It takes me less than a picosecond to decide.

:thumbsup:

[kster]

17. Welcome to the DU

you are correct.

[chicofaraby]

20. Thanks for the welcome.

I see this resolution as a yardstick. We will be able to measure Senators by their vote.

I don't expect to get the censure, but Feingold is forcing the GOP to embrace 34% George. I hope they get him all over themselves.....

[DemReadingDU]

48. Less than a nanosecond to decide!

K&R

[0007]

97. A half of a New York second is even too long!

The action should be instantaneously taking no time what-so-ever.

[sendero]

61. What you said..

.... and welcome to DU.

This party is so full of hand-wringing strategizers it can't use the bathroom without overanalyzing it.

Censure, impeach, bad-mouth mercilessly. America is READY for someone to STAND UP AND SAY WHAT THEY ALL FEAR IS TRUE.

If Dems don't sieze this opportunity, we might as well fold up and go home.

[Pacifist Patriot]

84. You're awfully generous with your time.

Welcome to DU!

[chicofaraby]

90. Heeeeey, I'm a liberal. We're generous people.

Thanks for the welcome.

[Swamp Rat]

4. Word!

:kick:

TIME TO KICK ASS!!!

SUPPORT FEINGOLD AND CONYERS!!!

:kick:

[understandinglife]

8. E X A C T L Y

Thank you SR :toast:

[EFerrari]

13. Time to stand up or go home.

STAND UP AND FIGHT THESE CRIMINALS

[Binka]

46. Time Has Come Today!

There is no backing down now. Basta. Basta. Basta. Every Man Woman & Child should be in the fucking streets. They hung Mussolini by his feet why not Bush?

[EFerrari]

99. Oh don't tease me that way.

:)

[Individualist]

85. Hear, hear!

Time for congressmen to show whether they serve the American people or their corporate masters.

[upi402]

7. fine. ya got me.

THIS THREAD IS HUGH!

[EFerrari]

9. Amen, brother. The line has been drawn.

The lifers will resist it.

But we now have a real measure to use.

:kick:

[LincolnMcGrath]

10. Apparently not satire!

Perfect none the less. :toast:

[babylonsister]

12. I agree w/them but whaddaya mean by 'with'? And faggedabout

your words, hah! :hi:

[DanCa]

14. Hmm is this a line drawn in the sand or a litmus test

Cola or uncola I guess no one drinks grape or orange soda anymore.

[understandinglife]

18. It is pure sparkling clear raging anger. Nothing less. We can all ...

... return to nice when we've saved our Republic from destruction.

I sorta know you understand and when we have saved our Republic from destruction I'll be more than happy to serve you a delicious Pacific Northwest Pinot or Syrah or whatever ...

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION -- 24/7

[EFerrari]

19. That's right. I'll return to Nice when my husband and my kids

and my nieces futures aren't threatened. I'll ratchet back to nice when I'm not worried about the homeless population in my city. Or about our schools. Or about who we are torturing. Or about who we have kidnapped. Or about how the Gulf Coast will rebuild.

THEN, I will go back to Nice.

[upi402]

23. Yeah, I'll be nice when my kid's part of the national debt

is recovered from seizing the assets of the assholes.

[EFerrari]

25. I'll be nice when we stop imprisoning people without due process.

Then, I could be NICE again.

:nuke:

[mod mom]

69. Amen to that! nt

[understandinglife]

24. I n D E E D!

Only Then.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION - 24/7

[DanCa]

34. And I'll be nice when I can walk without falling and

when they try to stop stealling my disablity check. And when my excommunication is lifted from the church because I stood alone against the Religious Right. FYI I am for censure, I would just rather see the left stand united as a whole for once than be constantly seperated and fractured. I.E can't we concentrate on what unites us instead of what divides us.

[Pam-Moby]

16. understandinglife you rock.

Yep I believe!

[EFerrari]

27. Yes, he does.

:kick:

[lala_rawraw]

30. :) Either you are an American or you are not!

[EFerrari]

31. She's gonna shake, she's gonna sing, she's gonna cause

the rafters to ring

:)

[understandinglife]

41. Exactly.

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION - 24/7

[burythehatchet]

35. Democrats are so angry...

DAMN
STRAIGHT
:mad:

[EFerrari]

36. Angry? What social injustice?

:kick:

[DanCa]

37. I swear eternal anger over anyone

who thinks a fetus is more important than a disabled person.

[EFerrari]

39. You are in good company.

We don't let this stand.

:hug:

:kick:

[understandinglife]

40. D A M N ... S T R A I G H T

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION - 24/7

[DanCa]

43. Okay you convinced me No more marquis de queensbury rules for me

If you want a street fighter I'll show ya street fighter. Riddle me this riddle me that whose afraid of my big bad bat. Anyone who is against censure. Being nice dont caught it anymore in today's world.

[Pacifist Patriot]

82. I am NOT angry!

I am fucking irate!

That is all.

[Nothing Without Hope]

44. So true. No more excuses for gutless caving and collusion. The Vichy

Dems are NOT the future of this country.

"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." -Dante Alighieri, poet (1265-1321)

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” –Abraham Lincoln, 16th US president (1809-1865)

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.” -- Daniel Webster

"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

[cali]

49. Who does this remind me of?

Oh, that's right. It reminds me of bushyboy. I strongly dislike statements like this. In fact I dislike them so much, I almost reflexively want to take the other side's position. Blechh.

[Rebelry]

89. Yep.

[lonestarnot]

50. Endangered isn't large enough.

[katinmn]

51. Clearly the citizens have to take back democracy. Congress refuses to.

We can't let them stand in our way.

I'm with you. Censure, impeach, and more.

Citizens waste their time being "armchair political strategists." We need to raise our voices and DEMAND that our leaders follow the law.

[Mass]

52. Exactly the type of statement that would draw me in the other direction

if the matter was not so serious.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. IF YOU DO NOT USE ALL CAPS YOU ARE A TRAITOR!!11!1 n/t

[ecstatic]

54. Dubya broke the law!

Who are these people who want to give * a pass for political expedience?! What would the Republicans have done if Bush were a Democrat? How many times did they attack and try to punish Clinton, for absolutely no reason? We actually HAVE REASONS, and damn good ones!

[Ganja Ninja]

55. Actually I think this censure thing is a watered down alternative to

impeachment. Bush needs and deserves a little more than a sternly worded congressional scolding. He should be removed from office and then tried for his crimes. That's why I really can't get all worked up over this. It will mean absolutely nothing to him even if it does go down.

[mattclearing]

58. This kind of rhetoric worked great for the Bush Administration.

:eyes:

[Just Me]

60. I agree with ya' UL. Time to focus on the enemies to our democracy,...

,...to our economic and national security, to our people's interests, to our children's future.

Time to fight and fight to win!!!

:grr: :mad: :grr: :mad: :grr:

As Magistrate would say, "LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!!!"

[Time for change]

62. I'm with you ul -- I don't believe there has ever been such a

pressing need for impeachment in our country.

[Independent_Liberal]

63. Kick!

[Cocoa]

64. can you imagine Feingold or Conyers saying something like that?

not a chance!

[kiteinthewind]

65. Ditto, Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!!!

:kick:

[European Socialist]

66. Right you are--The shame is it took 3 months to get to this baby step.

[rodeodance]

67. and sign the Censure petition at:

Sign Feingold Censure petition at:

http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/page/petition/nsa0206

Hold the President Accountable on Illegal Wiretapping!

[ClassWarrior]

68. Call your Senators and ask them this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2512789&mesg_id=2512789

NGU.

[mod mom]

70. I am getting so frustrated at the reluctance of some Dems to support

the obvious. I am so frickin sick of having every move polled and having them worry about the swing voter reaction. WE ARE YOUR BASE-SUPPORT THE TRUTH! The entire experience of fraudulent elections without due SCREAMS of foul, of the despictable support of the invasion of Iraq (George Clooney is right they should have been at least suspect of the evidence like we were, but to blindly follow the pResident in such an immoral war is beyond words), of support of the UN patriot act, on and on makes me think we have two separate parties within one:

1. Corporate loving Dems intent on polling for approval, while pulling in the big bucks from corporate interest and

2. The Real Dems who are for truth and justice.

I am of the latter and will no longer support (even to the point of leaving a vote blank over voting for a DINO) the Dems straight ticket as in the past.

[Beelzebud]

71. Agreed 110%. If you aren't going to stand now, then when?

[mod mom]

73. WEWILLNOTBESILENCED:

http://wewillnotbesilenced.cf.huffingtonpost.com

UL linked me to this for the first time. This thread speaks the same message as the film short.

peace.

TURN OUT ON MARCH 18th!

[wiggs]

74. Rule 21 every week. Boycotts, mass press conferrences

full page ads in newspapers, no holds barred speeches, calling people who lie liars, calling people who go to un-necessary wars warmongers, calling congressmen who enable a unitary executive irresponsible, censuring those who deserve censure, voting not to certify questionable electoral votes, calling those who arent for election reform undemocratic, indicting those who take bribes and kicking them out of office, calling those who torture repulsive, calling those who use white phosporous war criminals, calling those who ignore environmental degradation pigs, calling those who put corporations and ideology before americans fascists.

Etc.

It shouldn't be hard. Should be easy.

If some think UL's harsh line is too severe, I'll suggest that some of it is needed to swing the pendulum back the other way. Someone has to do it....the center has to be moved back to a reasonable point. Worthy post.

[bvar22]

95. Great Post. Allow me to repeat it!

Here is what wiggs said:

"Boycotts,

mass press conferrences,

full page ads in newspapers,

no holds barred speeches,

calling people who lie liars,

calling people who go to un-necessary wars warmongers,

calling congressmen who enable a unitary executive irresponsible,

censuring those who deserve censure,

voting not to certify questionable electoral votes,

calling those who arent for election reform undemocratic,

indicting those who take bribes and kicking them out of office,

calling those who torture repulsive,

calling those who use white phosporous war criminals,

calling those who ignore environmental degradation pigs,

calling those who put corporations and ideology before americans fascists."

Is it wrong to expect this from the grassroots,
and especially from the people who ask for my vote?

[tomp]

75. recommended!

feingold/conyers. now there's a ticket that might actually get me to vote.

[hiley]

76. I Quite Agree!

We are in desperate danger in fact as is the world.

[AzDar]

78. True dat. I called and e-mailed his office this morning to let him know

that he has a LOT of support from people who aren't his constituents, but wish they were!

[SeattleRob]

79. Why?

I really don't understand why the Democrats are not solidly behind Russ. What are they
afraid of? Alienating the middle? The polls show that most of the country is already
alienated! The strategy of "working with their repuke colleagues" has been an utter failure!

What the hell are they waiting for????

Please someone enlighten me!

:nuke:

[corkhead]

80. Time for me to read the ART OF WAR again

:kick:

[understandinglife]

81. Ice storm in hell ... Donna Brazile "gets it" ...

<clip>

All I know is that people outside the Beltway have grown deeply impatient with our focus-group style of politics. They want to see some bold changes and some new leadership.

It's time to break with the same-old, same-old and use the Feingold resolution to force the Republican-controlled Congress to commit to serious oversight of the controversial, but increasingly popular, surveillance program.

The message from the left-leaning blogosphere is clear: Democrats should understand the real issue. The point is not censure or impeachment; it is Congress' lack of oversight and its failure to hold anyone accountable for major mistakes or missteps. And especially, it's about clearly misleading the American public. . . .

<clip>

More at the link (scroll to "Update III"):
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/03/following-script.html

[ReadTomPaine]

86. Seriously, When Brazile is on board, how risky can it possibly be?

This woman has lunch with Karl Rove, for goodness sakes. "Risk" in her book is not sending the President a birthday card.

Heck, it's an election year with an administration that has approval ratings in between 18-32% for the VP & the President. Conservatives everywhere are critical of him lately... it's the safest and most appropriate time for a censure that I've ever seen, politically.

Any Dem who doesn't get behind this is really a hardcore moron. Sheesh, we are the opposition party. How hard is that concept for some Dems to grasp?

[hiley]

91. almost fell out when

Donna Brazile got it!

[EFerrari]

92. hiley! Good to see you.

And yes, what's wrong with Donna? She did something right for a change.

[hiley]

93. you too

i was shocked i tell yah, shocked...

[understandinglife]

83. ReddHedd at fdl: Advancing the Ball on Censure

Having spent some time this morning reading through the corporate media coverage of the Feingold Censure Resolution, a couple of points jumped out at me. First, the conversation regarding President Bush’s actions on illegal domestic spying without a warrant has switched from “national security matter” to “the President broke the law — so how best do we hold him accountable.”

That is an enormous change in terms of discussion, and one that will only continue as the Senate Judiciary Committee must now take up the Censure resolution — since Bill Frist’s over-played hand yesterday in his ploy to quash all dissent in the Senate got shot down … twice … by the Democratic leadership.

The second thing that I noticed was that the groundswell of grassroots support got a mention in a number of ways, ....

Much more at the link:

http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/14/advancing-the-ball-on-censure

Be The Bush Opposition - 24/7

[Individualist]

87. No more enabling!

No more sniveling excuses for enablers! Oppose the criminal cabal!

[fooj]

94. Every single member of The House and Senate that does not

vote to censure this evil, maniacal group of madmen are nothing but treasonous rat bastards, IMO. They have an obligation...that's right...AN OBLIGATION to the American people to uphold the RULE OF LAW!

It's their duty as our representatives to
DEFEND, PROTECT and HONOR OUR CONSTITUTION...

I don't give a rat's ass how doing the RIGHT THING fares POLITICALLY! Just DO IT! Politics be damned.

peace.

:patriot:

[Usrename]

96. Yup, anyone not onboard with this is a traitor.

All Democratic leaders who fail to stand up to these criminals now should be vilified. They are not buffoons like Zel Miller or Joe Lieberman, they are much more dangerous and insidious.

Heads on pikes!!!

[Generator]

100. Or maybe you are not from this planet

I'm keeping all the options open since I need a sense of humour to make it AND I need to not be shocked anymore. I can't keep up with the outrage. (WHO are these people and what have they done with MY people?)

[gulfcoastliberal]

101. Sadly, thast's all the other dem memebers of congress that are traitors

But RIGHT ON SOLDIER!

[AuntiBush]

102. Feingold & Conyers - my full support here!

Come on Democrat Senators... grown some SPINE like Russ Feingold, and Conyers.

[autorank]

103. Neconocracy -- it's time to go. 24/7 and get the msg to the "opposition"

There is an opposition right, call Russ Feingold, D, MN and thank him for telling the truth and representing the opposition.

This is no time to make points on minor issues. The country is aligned against Bush, 60% disapprove, consistently rendered over the past weeks. Time to go, adios, au revoir,

NO MORE SUBTLETY (not that anyone ever accused me of that).

RECOMMENDED the post and the policy...