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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:41 PM
Original message
How STUPID do you think WE ARE?!
"If yer talkin' on the phone wiff Al Qaida, we wanna know what yer talkin' about."
-George Dumbass Bush


Like the goddanmed FISA Court is not going to give you a warrant to tap lines used by Al Qaida! You sidestepped fucking FISA because you were spying illegally!! Spying on innocent Americans. Spying on your POLITICAL ENEMIES!!!

This situation is EXACTLY what the Constitution was designed to protect against.

Its up to Congress to stand up and fight to protect and defend the Constitution, to stand up for the PEOPLE. NSA spying is a cut-and-dry case of violating the Constitution. There is NO plausible excuse for justifying this perversion of our Constitution. White House lawyers would be LAUGHED out of any Court in the land for either of the lame defenses they've offered so far. Just like the federal judge today who laughed out of court the bumbling prosecutor who coached witnesses against Mousssaoui.

These people are trying to destroy THE RULE OF LAW.

Censure is the perfect first step. The Republican-controlled House and Senate have conspired with the Executive to take the Constitution into the state of crisis its now in. Everyone in Congress must be put on the record regarding how they stand: Are they FOR the old Republic, or they for the NEW POLICE STATE !!!


Sit down, George!
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CovertOP Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deeper than that
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
Well worth three nights of broadband download. The rest of the world saw this 2 years ago.
After that I suggest the video Loose Change. After downloading I just had to have my own copy.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Youre SO right about The Power of Nightmares ...
... it's MUST viewing for anyone who cares about what's being done to our country, and our fellow citizens.

I live in Canada - so, of course, I saw this film on TV quite a while ago. They still have Freedom of the Press here -- it's amazing!
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The Power of Nightmares is well worth reading.
I downloaded the transcription about a year ago.
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well said!
The rat-bastards are trashing the Constitution. :grr:
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. If you've GOT Al Qaida's phone number...go get them.
That Bushism baffles me....
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MikeNY Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Old Republic...
You reminded me of ancient Rome...

"Causes of the subversion of the Republic into the Empire

Officially, the republic never ended. Octavian (and his "heirs") supposedly "saved the republic" and ruled by "will of the Senate" until a future date, in which he would return his extraordinary powers back. This fiction was carefully maintained (at least at the beginning) by all of his successors.

In truth, however, the Republic had been dying since 133 BC, with the killing of the Gracchi. Their deaths signaled the end of debate and legal procedure — from that point on, it was whoever was willing to go the farthest dictated policy. Murder became commonplace during election time, and mobs were often whipped up by opposing parties to frighten enemies into submission. It became accepted, even encouraged, to use force to 'preserve the Republic'. Senators who could not legally block reform used assassination and trumped-up criminal charges to stop it; reformers who could not legally pass their bills used the steadily growing anger of the Roman populace to terrify the Senate or appealed to powerful generals and their armies for military support. Each time someone used violence to achieve an end, someone else hit back even harder to counter it. When Marius used his army of gladiators, slaves, and plebeians to seize Rome, Sulla hit back using professional legions. The result was a short-term stability and further weakening of the underlying structure of government.

The change also became one that put the men before the Republic — no longer was it possible to survive in the new vicious world of Roman politics by being humble and loyal to the ideals of the ancestors. Powerful politicians vied to become "Primus inter pares" - "First amongst equals" through whatever means necessary, and ambitious men were only kept in check by other equally ambitious competitors. Marius and Sulla were the first, and their example gave rise to the first Triumvirate of Caesar, Crassus, and Pompey, and of the second one composed by Octavian, Antony, and Lepidus.

Moreover, the Senate had proven, time and time again, to be so selfish, arrogant, incompetent and shortsighted that the Roman population no longer trusted them to lead. The Senate was often too willing to protect its friends, allies and members from lawful prosecution for even the most evident and extraordinary crimes; and because of this it lost the trust of the Roman citizens at large. When someone did come from their ranks and proved himself capable, the Romans flocked to them in a desperate hope that he might pull together the Republic and restore peace, law, and order. The Senate, using what means necessary, struck down these champions one by one, starting with the Gracchi. Each time this happened, the Roman people became more willing to accept the extreme measures of the reformers to ensure their laws, and their lives. Caesar's crossing of the Rubicon was technically treason, but no one outside the Senate cared, because it promised real change for a corrupt and unworkable Republic.

Within the Senate itself, the heavily entrenched, tradition-bound, rich conservative party was constantly at odds with any reformer that arose. The Gracchi worked outside the constitutional system by using the popular assemblies instead of the Senate; Marius had to fight tooth and nail just to get the necessary changes needed to recruit lower class soldiers; Sulla terrified the Senators with executions to enact reforms that were intended to actually preserve the powers of the Senate; and Caesar had to effectively conquer the whole Roman dominion in order to pass laws that were at least a century overdue. The harder the Senate fought to keep the status quo, the farther the reformers were willing to go, until at last it ended in Caesar's dictatorship.

The distrust the Roman citizens felt for the Senate was evident in the reaction of the troops to their commanders asking them to commit treason. The legions were willing to follow their commanders because they had no special love for the Senate, who only refused them pay and often fought over their rights to receive land upon returning home from war. There was no time when a commander asked his men to march with him on Rome and they refused, not one time where legionaries sided with the Senate. They chose to rally around names like Sulla and Pompey and Caesar, not the antiquated ideals of a Republic that rarely worked for them. The only thing that kept them in check, was each other. The Senate's inability to see this new reality cost it dearly. The Senate could not and did not want to adapt itself to the changing power structure, and as a result was pushed aside by those who could.

Part of the problem was that Rome's government was not designed to rule an empire. The Republic was meant to govern a city-state; one that was, even at its founding, growing in scope and power, but nevertheless only supposed to extend through the regions of central Italy. When territory was captured overseas, the Republic proved itself unable to effectively govern it. The provinces became fiefdoms of the governors, who proceeded to plunder them at will and engage in military adventures that did not have the approval of the Senate. These governors eventually took on Rome itself whenever they were threatened. There was no system of accountability, no ancient tradition of dealing with corrupt governors — the problem was new, and the Republic, so tradition-bound, would not change to handle it. Once the Republic became an Empire, only an Emperor could effectively rule it, not an oligarchic assembly. But it took nearly a century before that was fully realized.

In the end, the failure to control the generals caused the downfall of Rome's Republic. When Caesar finally took Rome for himself, he was greeted with thunderous applause, because he, at long last, promised, and even delivered, reforms the Roman people had wanted since the Gracchi.

The legions of Rome physically dismantled the Republic, but it was the Senate that set up a world where such a thing could happen as the citizens looked on and cheered."
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I think Bush has eliminated the generals who disagreed with him.
Shinseki was one of the first.
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. We have a paper thin margin of safety
If we abandon our Constitutional principles we will suffer the same fate. How stupid are we?
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Republicans know their working class supporters are stupid.
That's why they throw out these ridiculous soundbites. They know the freeprs will lap it up, no matter how contrived it is.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-14-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Absolutely
>Spying on your POLITICAL ENEMIES!!!<

This was the whole reason for the end run around the FISA laws. After all, how can one spy effectively on one's enemies if they have any chance whatsoever of finding out it's being done?

>These people are trying to destroy THE RULE OF LAW.<

Republicans believe it's only necessary for Democratic, legally elected two-term presidents who've engaged in a consensual sex act with another adult to observe and obey THE RULE OF LAW.

Julie

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