Americans are among the stupidest people in the world.

[Cyrano]

And politicians of both parties know it. Democrat politicians regret this, bitch about it, and do everything they can to change it. Republican politicians love this reality, exploit it, and do everything they can to keep it that way.

It's difficult to place the blame in any one place. The MSM is part of the problem. The Republican propaganda machine keeps the ball rolling. The Republican religious faction actually believe they're "doing the Lord's work," and the good ole' standby of waving the flag and appealing to blind patriotism works wonders.

Most Democrats/Liberals, on the other hand, believe in the basic goodness of mankind, the things that are written in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and that if people could just see the truth, they'd throw the criminals out.

As a Democrat and a liberal, I agree with them. So given the insanity that the American public has allowed to go on for the past five years, I guess I'm as ineffective as any Democrat politician out there.

The journalist H.L. Mencken said, "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people" and he's been proved right time and again.

So what, if anything, are we going to do about it?

[panader0]

1. It's a sad thing

But it's the only explanation for why bushco is in office. Most Americans still believe that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks. Most are into the "Let's kick some ass" mentality. Just go down to your local Wal-Mart and you'll get a glimpse of the problem. Dems need to make it real simple. REAL SIMPLE for these people to understand. When Nixon got elected by the biggest margin in US history, I knew then we were in trouble.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. for myself, I am thinking about emigration.

[slackmaster]

27. Do you think emigrating will make you smarter?

:eyes:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

30. it will keep me out of a Haliburton prison longer.

[slackmaster]

35. Check

:tinfoilhat:

[Comadreja]

38. Is Wackenhutt a Halliburton subsidiary now? eom

eom

[Cyrano]

39. Sorry, Comadreja, I don't know. Try Google. It might be there.

One thing I believe however, is that given another three years, the entire U.S. will be a subsidiary of Halliburton. It's possible that we are right now and don't even know it.

[BooScout]

119. Well it made me happier....

Now I get to watch the BullShit going on in the States from the other side of the Atlantic. Plus I am better off financially than I was in the States.

So I'm happy and I'm richer.......and a lot of people I see here are miserable living so close to the dumbass sitting in the WH and ruining America.

[leftchick]

57. me too

it has always been my option of last resort. The time has come to use that option.

[mnhtnbb]

99. We are, too. Building a house in Panama

scheduled to be done about this time in 2007. May only be vacation/investment house or maybe part-time retirement house, but if things get ugly in U.S. (or we can no longer abide supporting a corporatist/fascist country), it will be our escape hatch.

[Sparkman]

116. If you leave before we defeat the neo-cons, you'll miss the PARTY.

[YOY]

3. Not stupid, just distracted and complacent

And happy and proud of their distraction and complacency.

Then again we do have some real idiots, but not more than most other cultures. The thing is our idiots can be stinking rich despite the republican myth of the hardworking poor becoming rich.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. I would go with Americans don't use critical thinking skills.

A lot of citizens have had the benefit of solid learning in public and private schools. However, either they haven't been taught how to think/use their knowledge or they don't want to do it. The usual deductive logic, connect-the-dots, extrapolate, look at the "big picture", etc. They more or less ingest whatever the media feeds them without question like one big TV commercial. And since the RW essentially owns the media, the public absorbs whatever the media emits, like mind pollution.

[Iowa]

96. Yep - distracted, complacent, and one more thing...

...compliant.

We have way too many followers. Personality characteristics are as much at play here as intelligence, IMO. DUers, by and large, aren't followers.

Some may find it interesting to take this personality profile:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

I'm "INTJ", and I'd guess many here are as well - or one closely related.

[EFerrari]

130. Compliance should never be a goal.

It's bound up with the idea that life is futile.

[Iowa]

131. Well, I doubt that it is actually their goal to be compliant...

...just part of their personality makeup.

[tsuki]

133. No, stoopid. We are one of the few nations that celebrate

how stupid we are. Git-er-done. We think that it is funny, cute and socially correct. We abhor all things intellectual, geeky, nerdy and socially inept.

They celebrate their stupidity in song, on TeeVee and on film.

Ask anyone down here whether they would have their child be President of the Physics Club or Captain of the Football Team? Can you guess the answer?

Americans don't know, don't care to know.

[YOY]

134. Actually most cultures celebrate the stupid 'Vilager' mentaility

I've seen it in Sweden, Eastern Europe, Bangladesh, and if you need an example:

Mr. Bean is a twit of the highest order, but the Brits love him. Sacha Cohen's Ali G is another example of an idiotic character taking on massive popularity.

I think those of us who think about it for a minute all know the president of the football team stays in town to sell insurance and the captain of the physics club will make big buck working for Dupont (or whoever). The answer to your question is wrapped around the inner question: Whould you like to be someone women find more attractive and will have a higher chance of mating. (most) Woman have that weird inner urge to be attracted to better physical specimens.

Then again football is one of those distractions I am talking about...

[liberal N proud]

4. 2004 pretty much settled the argument

[cigsandcoffee]

5. Whenever I see these "American People are stupid" Posts

I always get the feeling the authors are excluding themselves.


The American people are no less intelligent than any other people out there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. Then how come only Americans believed in Saddam's WMDs? nt

[Celeborn Skywalker]

69. Because it was only Americans exposed to the massive propaganda machine

If other countries had the type of propaganda machine in place that we have, they'd be just as easily fooled.

[RaleighNCDUer]

74. OK, I'll give you that one. nt

[sendero]

118. I don't think it is "stupid"..

... so much as it is "complacent" and "cynical".

Americans have GIVEN UP on the political process. They are quite well aware that the entire game is controlled my monied interests. Vote turnouts are low because people don't think engaging in the process is worth their time.

Americans have fallen into a mindset of "nothing's going to change, I don't need to involve myself in this fiasco" and the masses at this time do not realize just how bad things have gotten in the last few years on several fronts.

Like all "groups" of people, companies, governments, organizations, whatever - there is no impetus to fix a problem until the problem is front and center in your face. I believe a large portion of Bush**'s low polling numbers are related to high gas/fuel prices. People thought that if we invaded Iraq, at least we'd get cheap gas. :)

I'm pessimistic about the American economy. When it finally sputters and falters so obviously that everyone notices and the media can no longer play cheerleader, folks are going to be really, really pissed and they are going to blame Republicans, and rightly so.

[Stevepol]

6. Americans are not stupid; they're just disenfranchised right now.

As soon as fair elections are returned to the country, the American people will become geniuses. Americans are no smarter or more stupid than people anywhere else in the world.

When you don't have a democracy, you have no way to get your ideas expressed in the public arena.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. I'm afraid you might be right.

Dems who go on t.v. express their opinions like they're talking to their inner circles. And I hate to say it, but not everybody in this country received a proper education in Massachusetts.

Most Americans that I have met are visceral pack animals. Not only do they follow whatever their gut tells them, but they wait until someone else in the pack confirms their symptoms.

[Ufomammut]

9. I began a thread on a similar theme yesterday...

Only to have it removed by some moderator who apparently took offense at what I had to say regarding how values and political "reality" is shaped or fomented as the key component to thought control in a democratic society.

Yes, it's true; many around the world don't look upon us favorably because they can't understand how given there are so many of us in a supposedly "free" society, we'd stand for and allow the fascist Bushco coup to run roughshod over our constitution, international law, common decency, etc, so, by turn, we do appear either astonishingly acquiescent, or, actually supportive of the Bush doctrine. And yes, an aspect to this of course is that, unlike those outside looking in, the people here are embarassingly clueless as to the true nature of what our own government is doing. So we end up looking rock-stupid.

However, I don't see the one's overall intelligence level, or IQ, being the real determining factor in this phenomenon, because there are many people who appear quite professional, intelligent, confident, trustworthy, educated, etc, yet can simultaneously be completely ignorant of many facts, and this especially applies to what's considered to be "acceptable" views regarding the facts and consequences of domestic and foreign policy, of class issues, and political identification, which ties directly into one's personal belief system.

Basically, it's the direction and flow our society encourages people to move within, with punishments for those who are too independent-minded. Make no mistake about it though, the "dumbing down" of America has/is quite intentional.

[ccpup]

10. I don't know, guys, ...

in European countries, those kids are taught from Day One more than one language. In fact, most of them graduate school knowing three or four. Sometimes our kids in the States graduate school without knowing how to read a long paragraph or knowing where Dubai is on a map. Kids in European countries are known to excel in Math and Vocabulary. In fact, in France, there's a huge contest run in the newspapers (and with a weekly television show) where they write a paragraph in French and contestants (sometimes thousands of them around the country) have to discover the mistakes. In the States, many of our kids are abysmal at spelling (is it desert or dessert?) and would make more mistakes writing a small paragraph than they would discover.

Of course, there are dropouts and people unwilling to learn in every country. But, per capita, I fear the ol' US of A has a higher percentage than we should.

All I'm saying is that the original poster may have a point there. Our education system is so broken right now that we are, in all honesty, facing a future where those in charge may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer. And don't even get me started on the nightmares of the homeschooling craze happening with Fundies! Instead of learning reading, writing and 'rithmatic, those kids are learning ignorance, bigotry and deepening their attitude that "my religion is the only right way and everyone else is evil and going to Hell".

I do fear for our country when these homeschooled kids come of age and have to creep into the light of day. I mean, can you imagine them having to suddenly make change at Target because the electronic cash register went on the fritz? Eeeek!

[Ufomammut]

14. I'm a high school drop out

As Noam Chomsky puts it, "our education process is a system of imposed ignorance."

The fact that most people wouldn't understand what is meant by that goes a long way in explaining and supporting the theory.

[president4aday]

113. High school dropouts know about Noam Chomsky?

That's more than can said for most HS grads.

Evidently you were out getting educated, when you should have been in school, being indoctrinated.

[bklyncowgirl]

132. Mark Twain once said "Never let school get in the way of your education"

I could rant on about the defects of our education system but there is ample opportunity for someone who did not do well in school to educate themselves. In fact, some people who failed in high school may be more educated and informed than those who walk around sporting advanced degrees.

[The Stranger]

34. The Right Wing has bled the public school infrastructure in an attempt to

kill it, meanwhile proposing "vouchers" to subsidize religious schools where their own profound, monochromatic ignorance is assured of being imposed upon the minds of yet another generation.

[bumblebee1]

46. Write a paragraph, ccpup?

Some of them couldn't write a sentence without glaring mistakes. I can't imagine any of the young cashiers, homeschooled or not, making change without the help of the computerized cash registers. I remembered learning the "additive method of subtraction" in my sophomore year of high school. I worked retail before I went into the Navy. The idea of that contest is a great idea. I wonder how many of them could find Texas of Florida on a map of the U.S.?

I was at our local ice rink one evening. Two homeschooling parents were talking about math. The father of one was saying he didn't remember math having letters and numbers. The mother just stood there and chuckled. I could remember myself feeling sorry for their kids. My question if: If you don't know the subject, how are you going to teach your kids? That's the aspect of homeschooling that scares me.

[Sparkman]

115. I know guys that rebuild engines, & machine the parts, but can't spell.

[Igel]

72. And yet a recent survey

shows that Americans, on average, score ahead of the average west European, believe slightly more in evolution than the average west European ...

The problem is that usually people are comparing the test scores from a system of education that weeds out the dullards with the scores from one that tries to keep (especially) dullards in. Include everybody in your sample, and the results vary from what the party line says they must be.

Home schoolers tend to win the spelling bees and bunch at the top of the SAT and GRE scores. At least half of home schooling parents aren't fundies of any stripe, at least as of the late '90s.

As for bi- and multi-lingualism, note that those are skills. Take algebra class, and don't use it for 20 years (or don't see a need for it), you don't remember it. Same for languages. Preliterate members of small ethnicities tend to have great multilingual skills, but let's not try to claim their educational systems are better.

I've been to maybe 10 European countries, mostly in large cities; of them all, young Poles had the best foreign language skills (with Danes, Swedes, and Finns giving them a run for their money--note, all small ethnicities with understudied languages, providing a motivation for L2 maintenance). The French, English, Russians, and Czechs had sucky language skills, unless they were young and in school--then again, we weren't in touristy areas, and the communities were all solidly monolingual with few outsiders.

[readmoreoften]

101. okay, there are some fundamental problems here

I think there's an obvious crisis in American thinking skills, let alone language skills. This should be fairly obvious to most people, I think. As a English comp teacher I can attest to this.

1) Score ahead on what tests? the SATs? Those are American-designed standardized intelligence tests that we are trained for from birth. The test only proves that the student knows how to think like the test preparer. This has been reiterated again and again and that's why most schools see the test as less important than they did in the 90s.

2) I'd love to see the poll where Americans believe in evolution more than the average Western European. Since in the late 80s, studies showed only 27% of Europeans believed in God as opposed to 92.5% of Americans, I find it incredibly hard to believe that there's a wild creationist movement in Germany and Holland and Sweden. Where then? Socialist Spain? Denmark?

3) The homeschool movement focuses on winning spelling bees and having high SATs scores. If I sat around with my mom all day and practiced the SAT instead of going to History class, I'd probably do well too. Since the 90s, the homeschool movement is now largely christian. The notion that half of homeschooling parents aren't fundie is way, way off.

4) I've lived all over Europe and Latin America, the majority of people in all the countries I've been in had superior language skills to Americans. And not just in tourist areas. Most Czechs I've encountered speak English well. Come on, even the French speak English...they just don't want to. Of course, the post-Communist cultures have the worst language skills. Hungary being the most obvious example. Americans live in a multi-lingual society, but English speaking Americans see little reason to learn the language of their neighbors.

5) Our universities are the best in the world when it comes to the maths and sciences. Problem is, the graduate bodies are largely foreign students.

[Gelliebeans]

110. I've have heard

what you have sited here in your post and I do believe that is true. Do you have any of those stats handy or a link as I would like to have that information within my grasp?

:hi:

[readmoreoften]

120. I don't have links to that stat, but here are some links.

I found that statistic in a public library book in 1990, so who knows how correct it was considering the poll was taken before the fall of communism. In Germany (see Germany for link) when asked in 1976 whether or not religion was fairly important to them, only 30% said yes. The statistics are adherents.com are tricky because so many of the data is taken from church reports, polls, and censuses. Who knows how accurate these are?

According to their statistics, Europe is still 85% christian, but I don't know what that means. It is fairly well known that after the destruction of Nazi Germany and Communism, Western Europe underwent what the religious would call a crisis of faith. I've heard the 20-27% statistic bandied about quite often, but I've never seen any sources.

Adherents does note that only 10% of Western European Christians go to Church regularly. http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_98.html (whatever "regularly means") whereas 56% of Americans go to church at least once a month. 42% go to church weekly. http://www.adherents.com/adh_dem.html and 44% of Americans identify as "evangelical" or "born again."

If you want to look at who we are in terms of "what we are the most of" here it is:

Group Number Percent of
U.S. population
Total 284,800,000 100.0 %
English-at-home speakers 245,497,600 86.2 %
Christian 217,872,000 76.5 %
White 211,460,626 75.1 %
Protestant 150,944,000 53 %
Female 145,532,800 51.1 %
Male 139,267,200 48.9 %
"born-again" or "evangelical" 125,312,000 44 %
Republican 90,950,000 33 %
Democrat 85,440,000 31 %
Catholic 69,776,000 24.5 %
Non-English speakers 38,087,127 13.8 %
Nonreligious 37,593,600 13.2 %
Hispanic/Latino 35,305,818 12.5 %
Black 34,658,190 12.3 %

:)

[Gelliebeans]

123. Thanks so much for posting this!

:yourock:

[readmoreoften]

124. Damn it, I tried to make a table!

86.2% speak English at home
76.5% are Christian
75.1% are White (that means there are more Christians than even whites in America...and there are a lot of whites)
53% Protestant
51.1% Women (more Protestants than women)
44% evangelicals born agains


There are almost as many born again christians (44%) as there are MEN (48.9%) in America :scared:

[Brewman_Jax]

11. They like the idea of "spreading democracy"

when we barely have it here.

[Deja Q]

12. Bill Gates believes in the basic goodness of mankind too.

He takes everything from underneath everybody... and has this ugly arrogant smirk in EVERY photo he's in... and releases products whose features so openly welcoming toward hackers, you'd think these "features" were designed under the impression no bad people exist.

[fujiyama]

13. Possibly

but moreso I think many are willfully ignorant of the state of the world and proud of it just like the dear leader himself.

The generalization is that Americans are typically very provincial and don't have an intense interest in anything outside of their own lives and they are very easily manipulated by propaganda.

It's fair to a certain extent, but I think those same issues are typical of people in many countries. Plus, in the US, many have so little time to worry about anything else, considering most families have two people working, some working multiple jobs.

[izzybeans]

15. Not stupid, uninformed.

Our capacity for processing information is the same. It is just that we are bombarded by flying turds posturing as valid information. So much so that many folks can no longer see the distinction; gobbling up turds as if they were candy. Power is in convincing an adult to eat shit, but there is nothing more powerful than to convince that adult to eat shit and like it. Fox News is just one notorious turd outlet. Our "liberal" media is still one of the more vacuous in the world. When we aren't eating pieces of shit for breakfast we are gazing at our engorged navals. Smart people appear very dumb when they have devoured enough of the cognitive poo. They can logic and reason, however the information they process is load from a Bull's ass. In short, and paradoxically, we are intelligent people with shit for brains.

[raccoon]

21. Wow, you have a way with words. I like your post. nt

[FSogol]

16. H.L. Mencken also said,

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
- H.L. Mencken

[Arkansas Granny]

28. In the context of that remark, I think the goal has been achieved.

[FSogol]

29. Exactly, Mission Accomplished! n/t

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ccpup]

18. I don't know, guys, ...

in European countries, those kids are taught from Day One more than one language. In fact, most of them graduate school knowing three or four. More often than not, our kids in the States graduate school without knowing how to read a long paragraph or knowing where Dubai is on a map. Kids in European countries are known to excel in Math and Vocabulary. In fact, in France, there's a huge contest every year run in the newspapers (and with a weekly television show) where they write a paragraph in French and contestants (sometimes thousands of them around the country) have to discover the mistakes. In the States, many of our kids are abysmal at spelling (is it desert or dessert?) and would make more mistakes writing a small paragraph than they would discover.

Of course, there are dropouts and people unwilling to learn in every country. But, per capita, I fear the ol' US of A has a higher percentage than we should.

All I'm saying is that the original poster may have a point there. Our education system is so broken right now that we are, in all honesty, facing a future where those who will eventually take the helm may not be the sharpest knives in the drawer. And don't even get me started on the nightmares of the homeschooling craze happening with Fundies! Instead of learning reading, writing and 'rithmetic, those kids are learning ignorance, bigotry and deepening their attitude that "my religion is the only right way and everyone else is evil and going to Hell".

I do fear for our country when these home schooled kids come of age and have to creep into the light of day. I mean, can you imagine them having to suddenly make change at Target because the electronic cash register went on the fritz? Eeeek!

[meganmonkey]

19. What are we gonna do about it?

I don't know, maybe stop calling people stupid, and stop compartmentalizing them, stop judging the 'sheeple' and recognize them as individuals who are mostly just as fed up as we are, and then maybe you can have a conversation with them and learn from each other.

Or you can just keep calling them names and stereotyping and just alienate them further.

I think it would be more productive to recognize that the people in power are our enemies, they are working to divide the people so that their corruption can continue, and it is clearly working very well.

Peace.

edit because pepople is not a word :blush:

[Ufomammut]

23. You can lead the horse to water...

That's the problem; people actually have to take an interest in informing themselves and communicating with others, and do so within a social structure that was intentionally organized to prevent the likelihood of such solidarity. That's a big problem, as when you try to explain and outline how these systems work, people usually tune out because their attention spans have dwindled, they become arrogant and defensive because they hear you, realize you make sense, and that threatens to pull the rug out from underneath's peoples belief structures, so naturally these ideas are often met with disdain, being ignored, and if they can't ignore you, they attack you on a personal level because the people who are frightened, or literally hate, these ideas, can't refute them logically, so they need to switch the topic, so to speak, and attack the messenger.

[Ufomammut]

24. You can lead the horse to water...

That's the problem; people actually have to take an interest in informing themselves and communicating with others, and do so within a social structure that was intentionally organized to prevent the likelihood of such solidarity. That's a big problem, as when you try to explain and outline how these systems work, people usually tune out because their attention spans have dwindled, they become arrogant and defensive because they hear you, realize you make sense, and that threatens to pull the rug out from underneath's peoples belief structures, so naturally these ideas are often met with disdain, being ignored, and if they can't ignore you, they attack you on a personal level because the people who are frightened, or literally hate, these ideas, can't refute them logically, so they need to switch the topic, so to speak, and attack the messenger.

[misanthrope]

48. Or as Dorothy Parker said:...

..."You can lead a whore to water but you can't make her think."

[BrklynLiberal]

100. "whore to culture"

[misanthrope]

147. That's right...

...thanks

[Neil Lisst]

20. it's not stupidity, it's ignorance

Bush makes the average person feel smart, which means he makes ignorant people feel smart. They share his lack of having a clue, and that is why they want to have a beer with him. He won't make them feel inferior.

Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity is forever.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gemini Cat]

25. Not stupid, just tired.

This is what happens when one spends most of their time working and hassling with day to day personal issues.

[slackmaster]

26. Americans are no more stupid than people anywhere else

Stupid auto-flagellation thread #9,745.

[OnionPatch]

112. Agreed

We are no more stupid. There are stupid people all over the world, in every corner.

We are just more manipulated than most. And I would add that we are being manipulated by the most powerful force for greed and oppression the world has ever seen.

[BurtWorm]

31. We're burdened with an unusually large population of yahoos.

But not all Americans are stupid. The yahoos just lower the average.

[slackmaster]

36. No, the average intelligence of Americans is average

By definition half are above and half are below the median, which is the only proper average to use when describing intelligence.

[BurtWorm]

37. Compared to other nations, we're below average

Because our average is brought down by the yahoos.

Dig?

[slackmaster]

40. Please cite data to support that claim

It may be true, and there may also be other nations where people are less intelligent than Americans.

Let's see the hard information.

[BurtWorm]

47. Cite data to support that claim?

Are you serious? Was there something about what I wrote that made you think I was sharing part of my PhD thesis with you or something? "Demographic Trends and the Effect of Yahoos on American Intelligence Comparative to Western Democracies." :eyes:

[slackmaster]

52. I'd just like to see if you can substantiate it

Are you up for the challenge, or are you talking out your ass?

Anxiously waiting to see if you can provide hard information to prove your claim without resorting to IQ test results, which are well known to be racially and culturally biased.

:popcorn:

[BurtWorm]

53. I'd like to see YOU substantiate it.

:popcorn:

[slackmaster]

54. Try back-pedaling a little faster

You're the one who advanced a claim:

"We're burdened with an unusually large population of yahoos.

But not all Americans are stupid. The yahoos just lower the average."

[BurtWorm]

56. Which definition of "yahoo" did you think I was employing?

The American Demographic Association's or the Society of American Demographers'?

Do you want to check and see how accurate the original posters' claim about how stupid Americans are is, while you're at it?

;)

[slackmaster]

60. Ah, I see your point now

Sorry about that.

Do you want to check and see how accurate the original posters' claim about how stupid Americans are is, while you're at it?

Asked and answered.

:toast:

[BurtWorm]

62. I was beginning to worry about you!

:toast:

[slackmaster]

63. Tough day at work here

I'm a system administrator. I've spent two days trying to shoehorn a "legacy" application onto one of our live Web servers without disrupting the site. I have no documentation. I've gotten it to run on a similar machine before and was able to work through numerous layers of problems, but this time I'm getting Java errors I've never seen before.

Mmmmmmmm. Java. :donut:

[BurtWorm]

65. Oh, man!

Well, I hope that bit of pseudo-argument was somewhat relaxing, anyway. ;)

Good luck.

[shadowknows69]

32. Stupid is as stupid does

At least that's what my momma used to say
-Forest

33. I wonder percentage of the American population

are actually liberal and are informed about politics? I think most people are into the "me" or "me and my family" way of living their lives and don't look outside those boundaries very much. Though we do have almost 100,000 on this board, which is great.

[fishnfla]

41. The proof is in the pudding

MSM, a sedentary lifestyle, shallow core values,an ignorance of history, the degrading family circle, a vapid culture, high fat diets, the remote control, the cell phone, the drive-thru restaurant, overt religious control. Its a cause and effect thing

But hey, lets have more threads about South Park and Boston Legal and other important shit, like the acadamy awards!

[Generator]

42. I don't know what we are going to do about it

But the elephant in the room is the MILITARY. Is FEAR. Until we can talk the truth about the military-industrial complex the government we have now is a sham. The troops are not protecting ME. They aren't bringing me freedom, the aren't even bringing Iraqi's freedom. I turned on the Senate C-SPAN for two seconds this morning and some Republican was talking about the budget. The problem with the budget is the entitlements you see! Those stupid things we pay our taxes for like medicare and social security and to keep the children from manlnutrition. No, you stupid fucking cow-the entitlements are not what's costing this record debt-it's the WAR. It's the billions of lost dollars in Iraq. The billions of overpayments to Haliburton, Bechtel and all their ilk. It's this folly of remaking the middle east in our own image to profit from it. It's the folly of saying that we are "fighting them over there" so we don't have to fight them there. The Iraq war is a sham. And we are spending our precious resources on it much the way the Soviet Union did in Afghanistan. We won't win. We won't win. And we will have nothing to show for it but a broken country.

The only difference between this stupid war-and Vietnam(were we attacked by Vietnam? I must have missed that? Hell not even any Asians attacked us on that one-I suppose we have the excuse of the "right" Race on the Iraq war-now that is stupid-why doesn't anybody say I want you to avenge those that killed us on 9/11 not somebody else-this fucking war is like having your kid killed by some guy and then killing some guy that looks like him just to MAKE YOURSELF feel better-yeah that's pretty fucking dumb) ARRGH. The only difference between this war and Vietnam is no draft. Is that there are people that have been educated on the military industrial complex. And we know war's first goal is PROFIT. So when we have some leaders that speak the truth to the American people we will have some more receptive ears. Maybe in another five hundred years or so. I'm not holding my breath.

[Cyrano]

50. You sure hit the crux of the problem, Generator.

The military/industrial complex that Dwight Eisenhower spoke of in his farewell address, is now in total control of the country.

Last week, I saw a rerun of Oliver Stone's "JFK," and for all the film's flaws, there's a great scene in which a character played by Donald Sutherland lays out the problem. He points out that "Who killed John Kennedy" is the wrong question. The right question is, "Why was he killed?"

The instant that Kennedy's assassination is viewed with that question in mind, it makes sense. The most apparent and glaring answer is Vietnam and how the military/industrial complex stood to greatly profit from it.

Back then, it wasn't that apparent. Today, they're operating right out in the open with Halliburton and the Carlyle Group leading the pack. And what's so frustrating is that it's so easy to see, yet so few see it or get it. Which brings us full circle to the stupidity of the American public.

[Deja Q]

43. Just misled. It's better to spin to be positive than be negative.

[Taverner]

44. It's partially because of this Creationism nonsense

Fairytales passed off as science. I went to one of these schools in Junior High - we literally used the fucking bible as our textbook instead of the chapter on evolution. The chapter was literally ripped out of each textbook as well - lest some smarter kid read it and get some "bad ideas."

[Ufomammut]

49. It's more akin to a spoiled kid who doesn't realize he's spoiled

The "dumbing down" process of America has been ongoing for decades, and has everything to do with what most people consider "normal."

There's more communication and avenues of communication now than ever before, yet we're the most uninformed informed people on the planet. An astonishing fact unto itself.

To quote one of the foremost experts on this topic, Chomsky:

"One of the predictions of the propaganda model, quite well confirmed, is that it must be effectively exluded from ongoing debate over the media despite its initial plausibility and its conformity to the needs of propaganda as articulated by the substantial segment of elite opinion who advocate "the manufacture of consent." While initial plausibility and elite advocacy do not, of course, prove the model to be correct, they might suggest that it be a candidate for discussion. But neither this thought nor the substantial empirical support for the model allows it to achieve such status. By and large, the possibility of studying the functioning of the media in terms of a propaganda model is simply ignored. Within the mainstream, discussion of the media keeps to the narrow conservative-liberal spectrum, with its assumptions that the media have either gone too far in their defiance of authority or that they are truly independent and undaunted by authority, committed to "the scrappy spirit of open controversy" that typifies American intellectual life (Walter Goodman), with no holds barred. On the rare occassions when the possibility of another position is addressed, the failure of comprehension and level of reasoning again indicate that the conception advanced is too remote from the doctrinal framework of the elite intellectual culture to be intelligible."

In other words, if truth is out of sight and out of mind, when it is addressed, many have difficulty comprehending it. To ignore, dismiss or attack truth is encouraged: why even bother contemplating "weirdo" views when the commonly adhered-to "unreality" is reinforced through numerous social systems comprised of people in position of high esteem and admired status who, as adjuncts of establishment propaganda, personally, and more importantly, professionally, disavow any view that counters the prevailing ideology?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

51. "Democratic" politicians not "Democrat"

Right wingers have been trying to change the name of our party because "Democratic" sounds too positive. They changed it to Democrat Party becasue it sounds less positive plus they like to emphasize the "RAT" at the end of DemocRAT.

Sorry - just a pet peeve of mine....

[genie_weenie]

55. Nah. Americans (on average) are no smarter/dumber

than the majority of peoples around the world. One thing you must take into account is the observer affect. You see instances of Americans "stupidity" everyday, most likely multiple occurrences by many persons. But, if you lived in Kathmandu or Sydney or Nova Scotia or Madagascar or Berlin you would see people making similar mistakes.

They are various forms of intelligence, some skills and learned abilities do not translate or would be useless in certain situations.

Now, I agree with Jared Diamond that when it comes to life saving skills, humans who still live in a hunter-gather society are "more" intelligent because their skill sets are geared towards finding and fulfilling basic needs (food, shelter, water, clothing). Were as my skill set includes such "useless" skills as typing, driving, calculus, singing, etc...

[Ufomammut]

59. You're completely ignoring the broader framework

That's the key, that's what is seldom discussed, if ever, among many people whose views, values, behavior, skills, emotions, literally everything, fall into that strategically ignored framework. This is how the "dumbing down" process works.

[slackmaster]

61. Can you quantify any of that?

I didn't think so.

[Ufomammut]

67. Yes

However, in demonstrating your obedience to common perceptions - which, if those are so terrific, then why is this country, this planet, wrought with apathy, violence and ignorance? - it's very unlikely that you'd even have any desire to examine how these things work ...as you've shown, you'd rather dismiss these points out of hand. And that's the trap. There's a very powerful anti-intellectual ethic in America. In fact, studies have shown that within fascist states, there is great disdain and intolerance for anyone who displays intelligence beyond what is considered acceptable and "normal."

[slackmaster]

92. Dismiss WHAT points out of hand?

There's a very powerful anti-intellectual ethic in America. In fact, studies have shown that within fascist states, there is great disdain and intolerance for anyone who displays intelligence beyond what is considered acceptable and "normal."

All you have posted is vague generalities. Let's see some specifics, with documentation.

[Ufomammut]

125. Points in relation to...

Larger concepts I'm addressing which involve common perceptions, specifically, how and why they perceive political reality as they do. Perhaps they seem "vague" simply because you're unfamiliar with examining them? Maybe my views, which I've expounded upon in length already, appear as "generalities" to you because it's not the typical, oversimplified views you're accustomed to being subjected to in thousands of taken-for-granted-ways. Afterall, your parents, teachers, friends, people you watch on TV, and so on, chances are very likely that you'll never hear any of them wade into these issues ....In fact, that's how the process works; you're illustrating a point here.

As for your want of "documentation," ha, well, I'd say if you're truly perplexed and are interested in researching these issues - which I'm guessing from the tone of your posts you're not - all you need do is type in "anti intellectualism within fascist states" into any search engine and you're likely to find plenty of info. Or locate your nearest bookstore.

[slackmaster]

135. Cue theme from The Twilight Zone

:eyes:

[Ufomammut]

136. Which is exactly why I didn't bother posting any links

Cause it's pretty easy to see what it's really about for you.. ;)

[genie_weenie]

64. I don't understand

I'm not being sarcastic but could you please explain your post.

My point, in case I was not clear, is that if you spent xx years living amongst any other group of people the conclusion would be similar, that the people you are living amongst are "stupid".

[Ufomammut]

71. YES, you're very close to what I'm driving at

Now, from that point, extend that theory beyond each person living within a family, peers, co-workers, etc, and realize that ...well, if you imagine stepping out of your world, your environment, and looking at it objectively like an ant colony, you'd begin to see all of these definable patterns emerging. Some of this "just happens" randomly, or, through enough people all choosing to believe and value in a similar way. However, that's only a part of it; there is another encompassing process at work, that is, how societies are organized and controlled, because there are people who control the country, right, and they're not about to let things move in a direction that is unbefitting to their primary methods of organization and control - which, in America, is based around militaristic goals and aims, and economy, which traditionally, rests with deceiving the public into subsidizing high end military technology through an allure of superficial consumption.

This is why people are so encouraged at this point in time to poo-poo "conspiracy theories;" because as our society crumbles, as everything slips out of control, that means more people are waking up to the true reality of what they think of and believe when they mentally envision "America."

So it's become highly necessary for the power structure and its many apologists and vehement defenders of all stripes to (hopefully) buy some more time with the continual promotion of "institutional analysis" as crazy "conspiracy theory." And it still works to an extent, because most people, in their timidity and perpetuation of conformity since being introduced into the "educational" system, have come to rely on appearances over substance, and are quite fearful of being thought of as "different." Fear is very effective for motivating people, second only to shame and guilt. See: organized religion.

Another way of seeing it is that there is virtually ZERO difference between what constitutes "education" or "entertainment" in America, and indoctrination. As you yourself have alluded to ...it's just that many people can't move from that point to seeing a cleaer picture of how brainwashing and thought control under freedom works; they refuse to see how everything, including some of their most personal beliefs and views, are controlled and managed, at least tinted and influenced, as those beliefs and values come from a strategically offered pool of beliefs and values that are tailored and framed by their socieites Establishment structure.

[genie_weenie]

73. Whoa, pretty cool essay!

How long have you been putting this theory together?

[Ufomammut]

78. There's nothing new under the sun

I've primarily relied on reading a lot of what falls under the heading of existential philosophy. And of course, long time dissident and ever controversial figure, Noam Chomsky. Anyone can figure these things out if the facts are presented to them, but that isn't in the Establishment's interest to do, obviously, so if you want to learn and examine, you have to go the margins, to the dissident literature. Which is why what is revealed through this examination seems so alien to most people even though it directly impacts every aspect of their lives; because it's not in the mainstream's constant sphere of influence.

[genie_weenie]

104. Yeah, ever since I began reading

A People's History, Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintainence and Civil Disobediance I've realized the State and Established Figures of Authority have a vested interest in degrading and controlling education.

Thanks for the excellent thoughts! :toast:

[Seen the light]

58. I disagree

Yes, this country is full of morons, but so is every other country in the world.

[Cleita]

66. You know. I can't disagree.

When I lived in Chile even the humblest laborer with a sixth grade education was well versed in the politics of his country. They knew more about the USA than I did and you could strike up an intelligent conversation with most people who had an average plus I.Q. Many of the American ex-pats didn't know this though because they refused to learn Spanish.

Even though the system wasn't on their side, they knew how it operated. I credit it to the school system. Without all the fancy public schools that we had at that time, a sixth grade education was required. After that the lyceo or high school was optional. Many of the poor had to go to work then to help out the family.

The schools were very tough. The teachers no nonsense and they enforced discipline, maybe more than would be acceptable here, but it forced the kids to learn in spite of their circumstances. Since the schools were very spartan because of lack of money, there were no sports or extra-curricular activities so the emphasis was on the basics of education and literacy.

I went to the American school but we had to take classes in Spanish and the history of the Americas by Chilean law. Our teachers, ordinarily American, were Chilean for these courses and the teachers were very tough. However, I think this is why by the sixth grade, every Chilean kid and every American and British kid knew the politics of various government systems.

[0rganism]

68. We're all plenty smart on the topics of our choosing

Michael Moore has the definitive take on this one. (Of course, he borrows from Chomsky along the way...)
---
Then came the day I found myself sharing an office with the ESPN game show Two Minute Drill. This is the show that tests your knowledge of not only who plays what position for what team, but who hit what where in a 1925 game between Boston and New York, who was rookie of the year in 1965 in the old American Basketball Associaton, and what Jake Wood had for breakfast the morning of May 12, 1967.

I don't know the answer to any of those questions, but for some reason I do remember Jake Wood's uniform number: 2. Why on earth am I retaining that useless fact?

I don't know, but after watching scores of guys waiting to audition for that ESPN show, I think I do know something about intelligence and the American mind. Hordes of these jocks and lunkheads hang out in our hallway awaiting their big moment, going over hundreds of facts and statistics in their heads and challenging each other with questions I can't see why anyone would be able to answer other than God Almighty Himself. To look at these testosterone-loaded bruisers you would guess that they were a bunch of illiterates who would be lucky if they could read the label on a Bud.

In fact, they are geniuses. They can answer all thirty obscure trivia questions in less than 120 seconds. That's four seconds a question -- including the time used by the slow-reading celebrity athletes who ask the questions.

I once heard the linguist and political writer Noam Chomsky say that if you want proof the American people aren't stupid, just turn on any sports talk radio show and listen to the incredible retention of facts. It is amazing -- and it's proof that the American mind is alive and well. It just isn't challenged with anything interesting or exciting. Our challenge, Chomsky said, was to find a way to make politics as gripping and engaging as sports. When we do that, watch how Americans will do nothing but talk about who did what to whom at the WTO.
---
from Idiot Nation by Michael Moore, pp85-86, 1st edition, 2001

The best trick the corporatists ever figured out was how to make us more interested in someone else's athletic achievements than in the decisions that directly affect our day-to-day lives.

[bumblebee1]

128. That whole section was in the book "Stupid White Men."

I know what you mean. If I want to know anything about the NFL, there are fout guys in my lunch crew who talk about it all the time. They also participate in a fantasy football league.

[0rganism]

146. Damn, grabbed the chapter name instead of the book name

But yeah, you got it. These guys could probably give you complete stats for the last five seasons of their favorite teams, down to the preseason weigh-ins at the training camps for the 2nd-string defensive tackles. But ask them what the provisions of the War Powers Act are, or for specifics of the FISA statutes, and they'll probably be clueless as babes in the woods. Strange, huh? It's not like legislation is so much more complicated, or less important, or even boring by comparison.

If only we could somehow break politics down to the level of players on teams, season by season. Maybe what we need is a really detailed, coherent, and lasting sports analogy.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

70. Bullshit

Countries are the same in intelligence. If you can cite one credible study that backs up your opinion, then I'll gladly reconsider my position. Yes, Americans fell for an enormous amount of Iraq War related propaganda. However, other nations would have fallen for it too if they had the kind of media we have. Sorry to say, stupidity and ignorance are a worldwide problem, not just an American problem.

[PBass]

77. I think most of us are on the same page

Americans are not stupid per se, but they are

fed a steady diet of cultural crap
under-educated
consumed with leisure activities
being betrayed by the mainstream media

I would also say there are a LOT of people who are so freaking busy trying to hold down a demanding job, then rush home and have some family time, that they are simply unable to dig into politics very deeply.

To just say that people are "stupid" is too shallow of an assessment, and it's a little bit mean spirited.

[blindpig]

75. Don't know if I'd call it stupidity.

Yeah, there are some stupid people. But what passes for education is little more than job training, history, science and art all compete for lowest priority. Then there is propaganda, both governmental and corporate(advertising). Goebbels would cream in his jeans to see how the American people are manipulated. While this does not exonerate the American people it explains a lot.

[leftofthedial]

76. Huh?

Could you make your post shorter?

And use smaller words?

USA Number One!!!!!!

[Ufomammut]

79. Snide, but humorous...

It helps to remember that we all play the fool in some capacity. ;)

[leftofthedial]

81. Half of all Murkans are below average

By and large, Americans are dumb, ignorant, intellectually lazy, superstitious (to the point of mental illness in many cases) and gullible as a drunk blond at a frat party in a porno movie.

[Ariana Celeste]

80. Medicated, complacent, and cooperative.

Incredibly uninformed. Blinded by nationalism.


I don't know about stupid.

[suffragette]

82. stupidity and ignorance are different

Somewhere along the line, it became considered "impolite" for people in the U.S. to discuss politics and political issues. We've all grown up with the "never talk about politics or religion" saying. Where does that come from anyway?

Because of this taboo or its partner idea that arguments will surely arise if people broach it, people in the states have often shied away from chatting about these areas with each other on a daily and casual basis. And many will steer the subject away or cut short talks rather than engage in discussion about politics. Without free discussion of these important topics with family, friends and acquaintances, people lose the opportunity to hear another's ideas and examine or even challenge one's own. And they are more likely to focus on other matters, often learning about these down to the smallest and most seemingly insignificant detail, that they feel "free" to bring up with whomever they talk. And they will often learn everything they can about this while remaining to some degree ignorant about basic political rights and issues.

Not saying that there aren't other reasons as well, just noting this is one aspect.

And it makes it even more important to have a place like DU, where we can engage in political discussions and challenge each other and ourselves to become better informed and invite new people who are thirsting for this active give and take to join in.

[Cleita]

85. Where did that come from?

We have to discuss politics to learn from each other. I noticed that the don't talk politics mantra is practiced in conservative strongholds more than liberal ones. It's that the conservatives, I believe, don't want their ideology exposed as a false one. So they tell you not discuss politics if your politics aren't theirs. I heard plenty of RW racism and sexism though talked in the open as long as they were all in agreement and I kept my mouth shut.

[Ufomammut]

89. "It" came about by the planners of the country in the early 20th century

Also, the old saw about "never discussing religion or politics" was carefully fostered as to prevent average people from getting together in solidarity (what any ruling class actively works against) and realizing the whole thing is a rigged game, and that through their ignorance and indifference, they've allowed the Establishment to keep the dick in their ass.

[suffragette]

95. "We have to discuss politics to learn from each other."

That's exactly the point. In anything, we need to have discussion to learn from each other and politics is no exception. But that taboo is there under the guise of being polite and we here it somewhere along the way when we grow up. When I think about it, I can't even pinpoint when I first heard it, though I think it was when I was young.
Maybe it is more prevalent in conservative strongholds, though I'm not from one and still heard it. But it does take hold more in mixed political company and I've also been in the same position as you in that setting, sometimes biting my tongue, sometimes moving away and sometimes (though not as often as I should) challenging what was said, either gently or not. In that same setting, people feel free to bring up financial or career questions and to argue vociferously about sports preferences among other topics.
I've heard before that this is different in other cultures, in some it's finances that's taboo to bring up while political discourse is encouraged. It's a shift that would benefit us all if it were to take place here. Maybe the blogs and many discussion forums can help create that shift. I think politics are coming up more and more often in these venues, even the ones that aren't overtly political. As people feel more comfortable with engaging more and more in this way in virtual space, maybe it will start to transfer over into more open discussion in the world.

[Cleita]

97. Exactly what you said. When I lived in Chile politics from all

sides of the spectrum were discussed openly, without anyone getting slapped around. It was actually very civilized.

I remember one dinner party I went to where at my table there was a redneck American from Montana, a Chilean Army officer, an unapologetic German Nazi, and a Communist Union leader. The discussion got heated and very lively. It was probably one of the best debates I'd ever heard in my lifetime. Yet, everyone left the table politely, shook hands and parted on good terms.

We need to change our culture in this country, at least in freedom of speech, to this. I also remember my mother scolding me for airing my opinions too freely when we were here in the US.

She actually said, "America is not like Chile. You can't say anything you want to here. It's not as free as they lead you to believe in school."

Of course this was before Nixon and Kissinger brought US style democracy to Chile, by murdering the Chilean President and installing a brutal dictator more to their liking.

[suffragette]

103. What an amazing experience

and one that, sadly would be unlikely here.
Was that when Allende was president?
I'm with you. We need free dialogue in personal settings where we can all learn more and come to realize the intersection of the political and the personal.

[Cleita]

106. No Frei was President then. Allende had lost to him the first time

he ran although Frei was Christian Democrat I believe, which was pretty left. Allende was an out and out communist like Chavez is today.

I met Allende though when he was running. He did a speech in the little coastal town my aunt lived in. One of my cousins took me to listen to him. He shook hands with everyone after that. I got the impression of a very nice and a very sincere man. I told my Dad about it but he couldn't believe a commie could be that nice. He didn't deserve what he got.

[suffragette]

111. You've led a fascinating life.

Thanks to you for sharing it. One of the joys of being part of the DU community.

I have to admit to knowing little about Chilean politics. Really only ended up learning about Allende because of stumbling upon "The Stories of Eva Luna" a long time ago and then liking Isabel Allende's work and reading "House of Spirits." Reading that made me curious about Salvador Allende, so I read a bit more about him. A roundabout road, but learning works like that. Agree he didn't deserve what happened.

Now you've piqued my curiousity, so I'll have to read about Frei.

[Cleita]

121. There's actually two Freis who were presidents.

My memory is fading so I can't remember their first names. One was Alessandro I think, but I can't remember if he was the one who beat Salvadore Allende. I'm sure it's out there in Wikipedia or somewhere.

[suffragette]

127. Thanks Cleita

I'll check that out.

[Beelzebud]

83. George Carlin summed it up best:

The American people are a lot DUMBER than they're given credit for!

[Ufomammut]

87. The repuation for apathy is well deserved

Not a problem they can't roll up their sleeves and ignore.

What really troubles me though, is that when it all goes down the shithole, others' bad karma will inevitably translate into everyone's bad karma....

ugh

[mattclearing]

84. Since my last post on this got deleted, I will once again register my

disagreement with your sentiment.

Democrat is not an adjective, and insulting the American electorate is no way to win converts to liberal/Democratic philosophies.

You could start by not calling people stupid.

If you really had any interest in changing the average intelligence of the electorate, any teacher could tell you that calling a student "stupid" is right at the top of the list of things one should not do.

[Cleita]

90. And what if they are stupid?

Should we not speak the truth?

[mattclearing]

91. Not if it serves no purpose but to justify our own bigoted preconceptions

about others, no.

Calling Americans stupid is no more right than calling Italians, Britons, or Mexicans stupid.

The sentiment expressed in the OP is nothing short of shameful.

[Ufomammut]

93. Although at heart I agree...

The irony is that, on average, the "American electorate" is effectively pandered to, lied to, and called "stupid" to their face everytime they switch on a TV, or open a mainstream/top 40 book, or any major periodical, or sit and watch the average "blockbuster" movie that is so pathetically insipid that one truly does wonder just how bright the bulk of denizens are since they're the ones who ensure that such mindless drivel generates millions of dollars. ..."mindless drivel," too, that realistically serves as a form of cultural indoctrination into exalting values which are utterly superficial and non-critical.

So, while it may do little good to resort to name calling per se, I actually do think - based on personal experience - it's benefitial to sometimes use ideas and language in a way that will get people to at least understand that there are other ways of looking at your culture and society beyond the ones that are reinforced through your family, peers, co-workers, etc, who, by nature of how the indoctrinational effects pan out, often just mirror what's most familiar in their perceived worlds.

[BlooInBloo]

86. Anybody who's ever taught college kids knows this...

Excepting, possibly, profs/lecturers in the fields of journalism, education, and communications.

[readmoreoften]

102. Why are they exempt?

Some of my least coherent students are education majors. I've never found them to be particularly wise.

[Individualist]

88. Mencken was right,

and so was P.T. Barnum who has been credited with saying "There's a sucker born every minute". www.newzmaniac.com/rant.html

[coalition_unwilling]

94. Good News and Bad News (from west Los Angeles)

When Feingold announced his censure resolution on Sunday and when Bush started his latest marketing campaign for Iraq, I decided to escalate my vigil from twice per week to seven days per week (2 hours per day), starting this past Sunday.

Here's an anecdotal report: I carry a two-sided sign. One side says "U.S. Out of Iraq Now." Other side (in recognition of L.A.'s 51% Latino majority) says "Pinche Bush." (the closest I've been able to get to an accurate English translation of this is "Fucking devious Bush.")

Response to my one-man vigil is overwhelmingly positive, lots of horn honks and peace signs flashed. Postive responses outweigh negative by a ration of 100-1. And number of neutrals (expressing no opinion) has gone down. That's the good news.

Here's the bad (or mixed) news: no one has spontaneously joined me. Hmm, maybe my outrage is more pronounced than most people's. Or maybe people think it's enough to just honk or flash a peace sign.

[Cleita]

98. They probably think you are an eccentric and applaud you

but leave you on your own. Try to get some friends to join you now and then. It might look like a group then and you might get some new ones to join.

[newspeak]

105. I believe it's apathy not stupidity

that is doing the most damage. My niece, a college graduate and mother, asked me what was going on politically because she doesn't take the time or have the curiosity to want to know. So, I told her some of things that were going on and told her I can't believe she went to college and wasn't curious in the health and well being of her country. She said that she had other things to do--so I asked her when would she pay attention; when they started arresting people for the books they read?--she said she'd be concerned when that happened and I told her she'd better start worrying because the day may be coming!!!

[Cleita]

108. Tell her the day has come. The renewed Patriot Act allows

government agencies to get information on what you are reading from libraries and bookstores still.

[coalition_unwilling]

142. I agree (apathy and not stupidity).

I retain a perhaps-naive faith in the American people's fundamental decency once they are aware of a moral wrong. The problem right now, as I see it, is that the vast majority of people don't "have a dog in this fight."

Until military conscription and\or tax increases come, they will remain apathetic.

As an interesting side-note, the sign in Spanish ("Pinche Bush") gets a much more enthusiastic response from Latino drivers than the English sign gets from others. That also gives me hope, as Latinos in Los Angeles are a perfect example of a "Marxist proletariat" -- only able to sell their labor. My experience (admittedly, anecdotal) suggests that this working class sees right through *.

[coalition_unwilling]

141. I vigil twice a week with others (in Westwood and Mar Vista)

This past weekend I heard a story about a little Iraqi girl with 19 pieces of "micro-shrapnel" in her eyes that an anti-war grooup (NoMoreVictims.org) brought here to Miami, FL for treatment. I was so enraged that the U.S. government was not taking responsibility for these victims that I decided to start vigiling every day.

[Cleita]

144. If I weren't so far away I would join you to keep you company

at least one day a week. I hope your protest grows. It's a good thing that you are doing. Don't get discouraged.

[coalition_unwilling]

145. I don't feel discouraged, just so sad about what is

happening in Iraq. Vigiling\protesting every day is the least I could do.

[tabasco]

117. Thanks for what you're doing.

Someone will join you soon I hope. :patriot:

[LiberalEsto]

107. My mother always told me that.

This was back in the 1950s and 60s.

[BrklynLiberal]

109. And for icing on the cake, many local municipalities are cutting "extras"

and "enriched" programs at their local school, like music classes, gym classes, after-school theater groups, chess club, etc. since they cannot afford them after all the Federal cuts.

They are also saying they cannot afford to give the teachers such high costing pensions and health benefits, much less pay raises.

So in addition to everything else, the quality of those attracted to the career of teaching will be diminished since it will become such a low-paying, low-benefit, low respected profession.

We are swirling down the toilet of civilization.

[Catherine Vincent]

114. Isn't it evident?

[SPKrazy]

122. Remember How Stupid The Average American Is, And Shudder At

the fact that half of Americans

ARE EVEN MORE STUPID THAN THAT!

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

126. Americans are among the most stupid people in the world.

nm

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

129. Americans are also among the smartest people in the world.

It's a paradox.

[slackmaster]

137. Not a paradox at all if you look at the demographics

We have one of the largest populations in the world, and one of the most diverse.

It should come as no surprise that Americans push both ends of any distribution (i.e. "bell curve") you want to look at.

[debbierlus]

138. It isn't the American people - It is just human nature.

This isn't new.

Corruption, greed, war-mongering by the leaders and the subserviance of the population is as old as humanity.

The American people have been lazy and irresponsible. I completely agree. But, the same thing would play out in any culture, anywhere. It takes a crisis that is felt by all to get people to act against corrupt leadership.

The American People do not want this leadership. They didn't elect Bush (don't forget that)! People do not know what to do. Our government has been taken over by the new world power - corporate heads and oil czars.

Eventually, there will be an uprising. The people will turn on the government that suppresses them, steals from them, and uses them as fodder for wars and slavery.

And, then it will begin anew in another part of the world.

[Ufomammut]

140. Well said

[Xenotime]

139. Some places are dumber than others...

I think Manhatten & California has the brightest and most enlightened people in this country.

[slaveplanet]

143. Take the test

No reference aids or calculators allowed. And certainly not Google

QUESTIONS

Arithmetic

1. Multiply 642035 by 24506

2. Subtract 3.25741 from 3.3; multiply 28.436 by 8.245; and divide .86655 by 26.5

3. Find the square root of 5.185,440,100

Geography

1. Where are silver, platinum, tin, wool, wheat, palm oil, furs and cacao from?

2. Name the conditions upon which the climate of a country depends, and explain the reason for any one of them

3. Where are Omdurman, Wai-Hei-Wai, Crete, Santiago, and West Key, and what are they noted for?

English history

1. What kings of England began to reign in the years 871, 1135, 1216, 1377, 1422, 1509, 1625, 1685, 1727 and 1830?

2. What important results followed the raising of the siege of Orleans, the Gunpowder Plot, the Scottish rebellion of 1639, the surrender at Yorktown and the battles of Bannockburn, Bosworth, Ethandune, La Hogue, Plassey and Vittoria?

3. How are the following people connected with English history: Harold Hardrada, Saladin, James IV of Scotland, Philip II of Spain, Frederick, Elector of Palatine?

A little too "English" for you?

Try this one...

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per are, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates:
1607
1620
1800
1849
1865

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.


BTW - the American(Kansas) test was required for advancement to 9th grade. 11 year olds needed to pass the first one, from England, The year was 1898.

Are you tired of being entertained to death yet?