Religion and the Abortion debate

[Maiden England]

I am posting an argument I had on another board, about the issue of abortion.

I was arguing that you couldn't ban abortion because it would violate first amendment rights - specifically the establishment of religion clause, because you can only assert that 'life' begins at conception on the grounds of religious belief, since there is no scientific consensus regarding the exact time you consider a ball of cells to be 'alive'. Also considering that since in my own religion - Judaism, I was taught the soul is given with the first cry - hence there being really no moral qualms to abortion from my religious background.
Anyway, I was arguing with a fundie nut case - who argued that the abortion debate had nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
Fine I said, and posted this:

Can You Take Religion Out of the Abortion Debate?

Take the religious aspect out of the abortion debate. Doesn't anyone find abortion - killing off part of the human race - a little bit disturbing?



Okay then, lets take religion out completely.

How about using statistics.
If around 30% of confirmed pregnancies end in miscarriage and probably if every conception was known about, the number ending in miscarriage/chemical pregnancy would probably be closer to at least 50%. Then what makes you assume a fetus is going to be a member of the human race? Back before we had modern medicine in fact, just for shits and giggles, back in biblical times http://faculty.biu.ac.il/%7Ebarilm/infant.html">from this source, they think the infant mortality rate was at least 30%. Go back before then, to the Stone age, and it would be more like 80%. Only in the last 100 years, has it gone down to under 10%, due to advances in medicine. Which means if naturally, without outside influence, from every conception, only 10% make it to be part of the human race, how does that statistically add up to every abortion being a de facto member of the human race. Its fair to say that such a fetus had a slim chance of becoming a fully fledged member of the human race, but thats about it.

Still on this statistical point: If at least 30% of wanted pregnancies fail naturally, statistically it should be perfectly acceptable to cull at least 30% of unwanted confirmed pregnancies. Again, using statistics: unwanted babies lead to a dramatic rise in crime rate (I'm quoting the book http://www.freakonomics.com/">Freakonomics here), therefore, it is sensible as a measure to reduce crime to allow abortions.
How about economics, unwanted children, usually born to the very poor or the young with no means to support the child. Burden financially on society, we have to pay for their health care, education, and eventually the prisons they'll fill. So how about abortion as a cost saving solution?

Bet you are morally outraged now right? And that is precisely WHY we can't take religion out of the issue.

Morals in the most part are guided by religious beliefs. Its what makes you believe abortion is killing of a member of the human race, whereas I for example, basing my moral codes on a Jewish belief structure do not see a fetus as a member of the human race, rather than as something with the potential to become part of that race. To me and my moral code, that is not the same thing and it doesn't have the same value as a member of the human race. Because of this it does not have rights or desires which could trump my own. If my desire is to end a pregnancy, if I claim the right to protect my own life (and it is statistically more dangerous to carry a pregnancy to term, than to abort it), then I have the right to make that decision as a fully fledged member of the human race, and no ball of half-formed cells, no matter how baby looking has a right to trump that.

In fact, when you consider that miscarriage is the end result for probably way more than 30% of conceptions, and nearly 30% of all confirmed pregnancies, its even easier to make that assumption.

Oh and one more thing.
Doesn't anyone find war - killing off part of the human race - a little bit disturbing?

Doesn't anyone find poverty - killing off part of the human race - a little bit disturbing?

Doesn't anyone find AIDS - killing off part of the human race - a little bit disturbing?



Adding the death penalty, torture, screwing the environment we live in, (oh I could go on for a while, but it may end up political ;-) ) all as very disturbing for the human race.

ps, if you have trouble view the source for the biblical statistics I had to view it through a google cache