Tom Harkin: Why I Fully Support Bush Censure

[kpete]

Tom Harkin: Why I Fully Support Bush Censure

We have a President who likes to break things. He has broken the federal budget, running up $3 trillion in new debt. He has broken the Geneva Conventions, giving the green light to torture. He has repeatedly broken promises – and broken faith – with the American people. And now, worst of all, he has broken the law.

In brazen violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), he ordered the National Security Agency to conduct warrantless wiretaps of American citizens. And, despite getting caught red-handed, he refuses to stop.

Let's be clear: No American – and that must include the President – is above the law. And if we fail to hold Bush to account, then he will be confirmed in his conviction that he can pick and choose among the laws he wants to obey. This is profoundly dangerous to our democracy.

So it is time for Congress to stand up and say enough! That's why, this week, Senator Russ Feingold proposed a resolution to censure George W. Bush for breaking the FISA law. And that's why I fully support this resolution of censure.

Nothing is more important to me than the security of our country. Of course, we need to be listening to the terrorists' conversations. And sometimes there is not time to get a warrant. That's why the FISA law allows the President, when necessary, to wiretap first, and obtain a warrant afterward. But that's not acceptable to this above-the-law President. He rejects the idea that he should have to obtain a warrant before or after wiretapping.

We have an out-of-control President whose arrogant and, now, illegal behavior is running our country into the ditch. It's time to rein him in. And a fine place to start is by passing this resolution of censure. I hope that Senator Feingold's measure will be brought to the floor. And when it is, I will proudly vote yes.

http://www.tomharkin.com/

[EFerrari]

1. Thank you, Tom Harkin.

:)

[spanone]

2. K and R.

[Hobo]

3. I am glad Senator Feingold has taken up the mantle for Censure

I believe it was a gutsy move on Senator Feingold's part. Not that it didn't mean to be said. We, democrats have been cowering before the Bush gang for years. It's time we grow a backbone and called a spade a spade, call a liar a liar, and felon a felon. Stand up and say it proudly!

Pesident Bush is a felon.

-Hobo

[japple]

4. Amen. K & R

[SeattleRob]

5. Thanks Senator!

Now where the hell are the other Democrats?

[warpigs]

6. Another point

Isn't the bigger issue that any information gathered by illegal wiretapping won't be admissible in court?

That's what I don't understand - all the evidence could be thrown out of court. By not getting a legal warrant, the alleged terrorists could go free. The wiretapping is not only illegal, but is helping the terrorists.

[EFerrari]

8. Well, you are assuming they are listening to suspected terrorists

where they seem to be listening to their political enemies.

But, you're right. They have messed up cases that are in progress.

[warpigs]

18. Good Point

Either they are trampling on an innocent person's rights or they are gathering information that can't be used in court.

Guess that is why they have secret courts and jails.

[EFerrari]

20. Welcome to DU, warpigs.

:)

[Usrename]

57. And there is the real possibility of obtaining insider information.

We know these guys like to manipulate the market. How many of them are up on charges now. Just think of the info that they now have access to that they can use to further enrich themselves.

Just saying, what is the obstacle that would stop them? Morals, ethics? Hahahaha..

Corporate espionage can be very profitable to these monsters. Especially when the taxpayer is footing the bill to gather the information. Beautiful, a masterpiece really.

[EFerrari]

66. Yes, they are nothing if not efficient in tapping into our wallets. nt

[sutz12]

21. Who says they would ever get to court? nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. That presupposes that courts have any say in the matter.

When terror suspects can be held indefinately without recourse to the courts, it becomes rather a moot point.

The only court involvement would be the families filing for Habeus Corpus, to which the governments says, 'Huh? Never heard of him.'

[CubicleGuy]

44. Re: Another point

Warpigs

That's what I don't understand - all the evidence could be thrown out of court. By not getting a legal warrant, the alleged terrorists could go free.

I think the rationale is probably that they don't care about going to court with the evidence -- they just want to have the information so they could act quickly enough to stop the legendary ticking nuclear bomb if they had to.

And anyone who isn't concerned about going to court with any evidence after the fact is probably not going to be the kind of person who worries about Miranda rights and other such niceties. They'll just look at you, blank-faced, after the fact and ask "What terrorists?"

[warpigs]

51. And how would going to FISA change that?

They have 72 hours to go to FISA after wiretapping. Still not sure why it couldn't be done legally.

[Maraya1969]

80. How did they use it in the Linda Tripp/Monica Lewinsky deal? I have

always wondered that. And when I saw the special "Monica Black and White" I heard what Linda said to her in those tapes and it was obvious that she was working for Clinton sharks. Tripp was the one who told Monica to hold onto the blue dress just to "protect herself"

Tripp showed herself as an evil witch in those tapes. And I don't think there was a warrant used to get them.

[lostexpectation]

7. oh look someone wants some press bad!

*del*

[EFerrari]

11. Yeah, defending the Constituation -- that wacky Harkin. n/t

[Deep13]

30. He's being shrill, unhinged and screechy.

Aparently, that's the only way Ds are able to talk, according to the Fox hate-mongers.

[EFerrari]

39. Lol! Tom Harkin has never screeched in his life.

:)

[Imagevision]

75. Let's get the show on the road already!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. .

:shrug:

[leftchick]

9. brilliant!

Thank you Tom! :)

[Dhalgren]

10. K&R!

THIS sounds like a Democrat who GETS IT! Any Democrat who waffles on this resolution can forget any support from me in '08 - and not just that, but active opposition. We have to recognize that the Neocon movement (or whatever it morphs into next) has infiltrated the Democratic Party and continues to do so. We have to start looking not at which party a person belongs to, but what that person stands for and will fight for...

[JDPriestly]

12. Wow! Common Sense. Simply Said. It's Beautiful.

Harkin says it perfectly. It's hard to even comment. It's just so perfect.

[Winter101]

47. Did you really read what he said?

Read my reply to Harkin's rant.

It was at best...pathetic.

In my opinion..if this is the best we can do, we're in trouble in '06 and '08.

-Winter

[Raksha]

68. How do you figure we're in trouble in '06 and '08?

I think Harkin's statement is brilliant.

Also, I notice you're a newbie. Just sayin'...

[400Years]

13. Very Cool!

[progressoid]

15. Hooray for our team (and my Senator).

Maybe I'll forgive him for the Schiavo debacle.

[leveymg]

16. Why doesn't Tom run?

I know Harkin was a candidate several times, and he's in his 70s. But, man I sure like what this guy stands for. Good, salt of the earth Dem. :thumbsup: :kick:

[melissinha]

32. He ran back in '92

As an Iowan I supported his campaign, but am glad he is still in the Senate doing great work, I wish my current Senators Cronyn and KBH had 1 ounce the integrity of Feingold and Harkin...

I WONDER if Mark Dayton is going to join in, he has nothing to lose as he is not running for re-election and he could help create a MidWest coalition... that would also mean that fellow Wisconinite Kohl would have to join too.....

[Idioteque]

37. I've read that Dayton opposes censure...

...he could use some phone calls.

[gasperc]

17. On the front page of his website!!!!!

I emailed and thanked Mr Harkin

[dfrailey]

19. What I don't get

is why we're talking "censure" instead of "impeach", "arrest" and "prosecute". Mr. death-penalty Bush has killed far more people than any Texas convict he executed and far more than Osama! Why is he not being strapped to a gurney at this moment?

[EFerrari]

25. Welcome to DU, dfrailey.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

26. Here is a reasoned answer.

See here:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/03/15/impeachable_strategy.php

Welcome!

[dfrailey]

60. Thanks

That is a reasonable, if depressing, analysis.

[mzmolly]

22. Concise/reasoned

GO HARKIN!

[twaddler01]

24. K & R AND EMAILED TO FRIENDS!

Nice! :thumbsup:

[The Witch]

27. Couldn't have picked a better senator to back Feingold.

You never hear pundits babbling about Harkin being extreme. He's solid as a rock. In a Midwestern state. Always makes sense.

:yourock: Harkin :loveya:

[Zambero]

28. Finally some spine!

Let's hope Tom Harkin's forthrightness is contagious amongst his Democratic Senate colleagues, and any sensible Republican (Chafee? Collins?) who might have a lot of future explaining to constituents if they let this guy continue to run amuck with impunity.

Bill Maher mentioned (on Scarborough last night) that "Democrats never waste an opportunity to waste an opportunity". How true. Not pursuing cersure at this point amounts to a tacit approval of this administrations brazen and wreckless acts. Time for a course correction!

[Ganja Ninja]

29. All I can say is any Senator that doesn't support censure ...

will not get my vote if they decide to run in the democratic primary for President in 2008.

[burythehatchet]

31. In other news

Approximately 40 saliva wetted index fingers were spotted in Washington DC today, presumably trying to determine which way the wind is blowing.

[NVMojo]

33. Well said! Thank you Senator Harkin!

[merbex]

34. And it really is as simple as that - Thank You Senator for your words

For the life of me I do not understand the hand wringing that is going on

[Vidar]

35. Thank you, Mr. Harkin.

[Ikonoklast]

36. There is blood in the water

and still Dem senators are tentative about censure.


Go Tom Harkin!

[Beelzebud]

38. 2 Honest people in a sea of mediocre politicians.

Remind me again, why it was a bad idea for the Democrats to get behind Feingold? Oh yeah, it wasn't a bad idea.

I'm am utterly disgusted with the national Democratic party at the moment.

[PATRICK]

40. I thought while listening

to Ed Schultz that they had to sign on because they had been selling just this type of censure message to middle America and their friend Ed, and Ed was disgusted that suddenly they wouldn't come forward. he played a devastating bunch of interview snips where they said the same thing as Feingold but to the radio choir. The very people they are trying not to drive away by becoming an opposition party not a bi-partisan-party-in-waiting will turn against the Dems. In Germany people hated Hitler, but they equally hated those they believed should have and could have stopped his rise to power. And THAT feckless party did more than our ours at risk of their lives.

This disastrous mindset has been decades in building its house on sand.

You can't be the default party. You don't rouse support by the other guy turning off his. You can't offer hope by denying it in words and deed. You can't follow a course of fear because fear creates its object.

In the future, if they were planning to back Feingold all along but were afraid of media supported controlling legistlative maneouvers as with Murta, the most imnooirtant thing to do is NOT instill doubts in their supporters and the hugely growing numbers of people looking for a real alternative and for leadership. They have plenty of time for excuses when we are all democratically scrabbling in the ditches together for scraps of food.

[Debi]

41. Go Harkin...Go Iowa!

:bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot: :bounce: :patriot:

[Ino]

42. My favorite part...

We have an out-of-control President whose arrogant and, now, illegal behavior is running our country into the ditch. It's time to rein him in. And a fine place to start is by passing this resolution of censure.

I love it! "out-of-control... arrogant... illegal... ditch... a fine place to start" Nothing namby-pamby about those words. I pray this lights a spark of righteousness in the others.

[Kare]

43. Sent an email to Harkin

Thanking him for supporting Feingold.
I also said he should talk to his fellow Senators
about how good it feels to have a backbone, because
I don't think they know.

Tom Harkin :yourock:

[Winter101]

45. Oh brother...get real

I have a real problem with these kinds of speeches. They are meant to stir up the uninformed by appealing to their emotion. We've heard these types of things way too much. I'm a very logical person and I hate it when people try to manipulate me. Let me explain.

Tom Harkin: Why I Fully Support Bush Censure

We have a President who likes to break things.

ad hominem

He has broken the Geneva Conventions,

Call for real evidence on this one. I wanna see which article of the Convention was broken, by whom, and details of the event. Oh and show me where how the Geneva Convention can even be applied...sheesh!

giving the green light to torture.

huh?

He has repeatedly broken promises – and broken faith – with the American people. And now, worst of all, he has broken the law.

Vague emotional tripe.

In brazen violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), he ordered the National Security Agency to conduct warrantless wiretaps of American citizens. And, despite getting caught red-handed, he refuses to stop.

A couple things. I just hate this type of manipulation. I don't care if it comes from my side or their side it's insulting. People, Harkin is doing nothing but trying to twist the reality of the situation into something it's not for political gain.

I know the Democratic Senators would like nothing more than to make everyone believe that Bush himself is listening in to their private calls to grandma. (The Republicans would love to get away with anything they can anyways..) But this just isn't the truth. The truth is that what Harkin is calling "illegal" isn't that the NSA is doing it, but it's that congress wasn't briefed about it. Calls coming from people outside the US that are calling into the US and that are on a list are having their calls monitored.

Check this out:

The Senate Judiciary Committee has held two hearings on the NSA program, after Chairman Arlen Specter (R) of Pennsylvania said that he was not convinced that the program, which many legal experts say violates the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, was justified. Senators grilled Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on specifics of the program and challenged the White House for not consulting with Congress before bypassing the FISA process.

On Tuesday, Republicans on the Senate Intelligence panel, proposed a compromise worked out with the White House. The agreement creates a new subcommittee that will receive "full briefings" on the program. Another proposal allows surveillance of suspected terrorists for up to 45 days without a warrant.

While Democrats protested the plan as an abdication of congressional oversight, it may defuse the issue, analysts say.

"With the spying, it's hard to overcome the ultimate purpose of the administration, which is to combat terrorism." says Carl Tobias, professor of law at the University of Richmond."" -By Gail Russell Chaddock CSMonitor

So it is time for Congress to stand up and say enough! That's why, this week, Senator Russ Feingold proposed a resolution to censure George W. Bush for breaking the FISA law. And that's why I fully support this resolution of censure.

Censure is a smear campaign. If you really want the NSA to stop monitoring calls coming into the US from people on the terrorist list, known al queda members and such, well then why don't you introduce a resolution to demand the NSA to stop?

Censuring the president is NOT the same as telling the NSA to stop what they are doing.

Nothing is more important to me than the security of our country. Of course, we need to be listening to the terrorists' conversations. And sometimes there is not time to get a warrant. That's why the FISA law allows the President, when necessary, to wiretap first, and obtain a warrant afterward. But that's not acceptable to this above-the-law President. He rejects the idea that he should have to obtain a warrant before or after wiretapping.

OHHHHH! So it is a good thing..... Could you find a more glaring contradiction of oneself? Look at this..

In brazen violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), he ordered the National Security Agency to conduct warrantless wiretaps of American citizens. And, despite getting caught red-handed, he refuses to stop.

Nothing is more important to me than the security of our country. Of course, we need to be listening to the terrorists' conversations. And sometimes there is not time to get a warrant. That's why the FISA law allows the President, when necessary, to wiretap first, and obtain a warrant afterward.

Wow, so Sen. Harkin by your own admission the FISA law allows for no warrant wiretaps... *rollseyes. Come on people this is just pathetic.

We have an out-of-control President whose arrogant and, now, illegal behavior is running our country into the ditch. It's time to rein him in. And a fine place to start is by passing this resolution of censure. I hope that Senator Feingold's measure will be brought to the floor. And when it is, I will proudly vote yes.

First it's illegal then he explains why it wasn't really illegal and now it's back to being illegal again. He hopes that Senator Fiengold's measure will be brought up, but he knows it won't...so he's safe in saying he'll vote for it. It's just sad.
:banghead:

We need good Senators and to be honest...Harkin ain't it.

[Pithy Cherub]

46. Hurry! You might want to get your lunch to go!

Welcome for as long as it lasts.

[Winter101]

49. I'm not gonna kid myself about it...

I'm just telling the truth as to my view point.

I think what Harkin said was disingenuous and slimy.

1. None of the Senate Democrats are actually calling for the NSA to stop monitoring phone calls. That should tell you volumes. Even Harkin says it's necessary.

2. Why didn't he just get up and say "Bush is a retard and I want to censure him for it!" Why is he trying to fool us into believing there's some impeachable offense going here when he admits there's not? What's his point then?

[warpigs]

50. BS

1. None of the Senate Democrats are actually calling for the NSA to stop monitoring phone calls. That should tell you volumes. Even Harkin says it's necessary.

They are calling for the wiretapping to be done legally - under the laws of FISA. You obviously haven't read or heard anything they have said.

[Winter101]

56. Ok then...

Harkin starts off by calling the warrant-less wire taps illegal...then

Nothing is more important to me than the security of our country. Of course, we need to be listening to the terrorists' conversations. And sometimes there is not time to get a warrant. That's why the FISA law allows the President, when necessary, to wiretap first, and obtain a warrant afterward. But that's not acceptable to this above-the-law President. He rejects the idea that he should have to obtain a warrant before or after wiretapping.

He goes on to describe that FISA allows for warrant-less wire taps, thus not illegal.

And reading all the responses on this thread it seems pretty clear that everyone for whatever reason believes;

1. Everyone in the US is being wiretapped.
2. Wiretapping is illegal without a warrant.
3. President Bush himself is doing the wiretapping.
4. Tom Harkin and Russ Feingold are leading the fight to stop President Bush from "spying on innocent Americans".

It's all completely false.

The legality of the wiretaps themselves isn't in question it's that congress wasn't briefed. And from what I can tell that's been fixed...so where's all this illegalness that Harkin referrs to?

I just want them to stop making up scandals and sensationalizing every petty detail. Personally I think it makes everyone on both sides look stupid.

-Winter

[dfrailey]

61. Making up scandals?

Who's making up scandals? We don't need to make up scandals in this administration. The fact that it IS the administration is in itself a scandal, considering that they committed election fraud in both of the last 2 presidential elections. Personally I think illegally spying on American citizens is a much bigger scandal than an extramarital blowjob.

[Winter101]

65. err...

Who's making up scandals? We don't need to make up scandals in this administration. The fact that it IS the administration is in itself a scandal, considering that they committed election fraud in both of the last 2 presidential elections.

Call for evidence. Please show how President Bush, et all, committed election fraud. Why isn't the opposition party impeaching everyone involved for this offense?

Or is this just anecdotal opinion?

Sorry but when people just rattle off this kinda stuff I want to know what they are basing it on. I don't just arbitrarily accuse someone of something just because I don't agree with them.

Personally I think illegally spying on American citizens is a much bigger scandal than an extramarital blowjob.

What part of it is illegal?

[ClassWarrior]

78. A moment of silence for the dearly departed...

:woohoo:

NGU.

[blue neen]

72. DU is a good place to get an education.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06074/670338.stm

"The Thomas Merton Center for Peace and Justice released documents yesterday that members say prove the FBI was spying on peace activists in Pittsburgh."
<snip>

"In one two page report dated Nov. 29, 2002, and titled "IT (International Terrorism) Matters," the FBI describes the Merton Center as a "left-wing organization advocating among many political causes, pacifism."
<snip>

"In the same document, it is noted that on Nov. 29, 2002 a special agent photographed Merton Center members passing out leaflets in Market Square."

"They confirm our worst suspicions," said Mary Catherine Roper, of the ACLU, that the FBI was conducting secret surveillance on domestic groups because of their political views."


The FBI is spying on a group that advocates PACIFISM. In PITTSBURGH. And calling it INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM MATTERS.

Do you think it can't happen to you?

[Rainscents]

53. Been listening to "Lumball" too long?

[Iowa]

59. Winter101, you screwed up and blew your cover...

"Censuring the president is NOT the same as telling the NSA to stop what they are doing."

No DUer would ever refer to the moron living in the WH as "the president". First of all, it would never occur to us to call him "the president". But even more importantly... doing so would automatically trigger retching and gagging.

[dfrailey]

62. Hear, hear!

Personally I can't even think of him as "the president" without losing my lunch.

[Iowa]

74. Hi dfrailey! Welcome to DU.

I'm the same way. It actually pisses me off to hear someone refer to him as "the president". It says a lot about the person saying it, IMO.

:hi:

[Winter101]

63. Well...

I respect the office. Just because someone is holding that office that I might not agree with doesn't mean that I will demean the office.

[blue neen]

67. Unfortunately for all of us Bush is demeaning the office every single day.

Too bad he doesn't respect it. He certainly disrespects Americans by spying on us.

[Raksha]

70. You're funny. Enjoy your (short) stay here. n/t

[Iowa]

73. See, you did it again...

"Just because someone is holding that office that I might not agree with doesn't mean that I will demean the office."

You generally won't find people here describing the idiot-son as, "someone I might not agree with". Doing so is akin to referring to a man who rapes your wife by saying, "well, we're not the best of friends".

Yet you have no problem unloading on Harkin.

C'mon, admit it - you're one of the 33%.

[Oversea Visitor]

79. Hey you

:rofl:

[nonconformist]

77. Aww, look - it's scared. nt

[mdmc]

48. nice!

[Rainscents]

52. Thank you Tom!

[Ian David]

54. Harkin dares to defy The Unitary Executive!

[KAT119]

55. Thank yoy Senator for upholding your basic Oath of Office!! K&R

We pay our politicians to - at the very least - uphold their Oath given to us & USA!

[blue neen]

58. Congratulations to Tom Harkin for standing up to Bush.

Let's get the rest of these Democratic Senators on board.

Did anyone else notice the trolls are out in force today? They must be feeling awfully threatened!

[Disturbed]

64. The FISA Law was violated many times and is still..

being violated. What we have here is Executive Tyranny!

Bush and his Regime believe that they are "Above the Law and Unaccountable".

“Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.”

President Bush -- April 20, 2004

[redredwine]

69. My Senator :-)

I mailed him in support... He is a great Iowan and a great American.

[bvar22]

71. K&R

....but shouldn't Tom have consulted with the other Senators,
talked it over wih the DNC,
held some Focus Groups, check with the Pollsters,
asked permission from the DLC, before speaking out.
I mean the man looks like a loose canon.
He's giving Democrats a bad name.
What will Limbaugh say????

Just because Bush* is Breaking the LAW is nor reason to STAND UP and say so!!!!
:sarcasm:

[Treclo]

76. My Senator, too....

(at least for a bit longer, until I move.)
GO IOWA!!! Thank you, Senator Harkin!!!:bounce:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

82. Kick