Dayton Blasts Feingold

[cali]

Well, shit. This whole thing is blowing up in our faces. I know everyone's going to stomp all over Dayton, but I must say that I think Feingold's strategy around this issue, sucks. It appears he didn't try to get co-sponsors, or let his fellow Dem Senators know what he planned, he just went on Stephanopolis and blurted it out. Sorry, that just doesn't make much sense.


Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Minnesota Sen. Mark Dayton Thursday strongly criticized fellow Democrat Russ Feingold's resolution to censure President Bush over domestic spying.

"It's an overreaching step by someone who is grandstanding and running for president at the expense of his own party and his own country," Dayton said of Feingold, a Wisconsin senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate.

"I think it's a very dangerous territory for the democracy that we have in this country to be playing around with those kinds of resolutions, without any consultations from his colleagues. I think it was irresponsible."

Dayton is a member of Feingold's own party from a neighboring state, and has himself been one of Bush's harshest critics.

<snip>

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/14114820.htm

[Norquist Nemesis]

1. okeydokey Minnesotans!

Time to let your fingers do the dialing!

Why oh why do our elected Dems never learn. :banghead:

[Minnesota Libra]

30. Oh believe I just wrote to Dayton and blasted him, here is what...........

.....I wrote...
Next email will deal with the "talk the talk and then walk the walk" issue.

Senator Dayton,

Sir, with all due respect, I have no idea what you are thinking these days.

There is a Senate Censure Bill introduced by Senator Feingold that apparently you first decided to oppose. Now, it seems you've taken the equally unwise position of "no position" at all.
http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2006/03/dayton-wobbly-on-feingold-opposition.html

Senator Dayton, I don't know how you can possibly claim, with a straight face, that holding President Bush responsible for his lies, his assault on our civil and consitutional rights could possibly cost us more than we've already lost under this administration.

Sir, I STRONGLY urge you to reconsider your position and vote for this censure bill, before your refusal to do so starts making you seem more like Bush's friend than our Senator.

[Norquist Nemesis]

45. It's not only that

Good letter, BTW!

But Dayton could have had a chat with Feingold in private, answered questions to the press about it along the lines of, "I great respect Senator Feingold and think Minnesota is fortunate to have such a fine representative. We've had discussions; I will not discuss private conversations."

Instead, he decided to go out publicly and join the circular firing squad.

:grr:

[Minnesota Libra]

50. You make a good point there - thank you nt

[LittleWoman]

82. Feingold is a Wisconsin Senator

[Norquist Nemesis]

93. Doh

:dunce: I knew that, really, I did. :dunce:

[MH1]

130. Circular firing squad that FEINGOLD started?

Let's see, Dayton made this statement today, THURSDAY....what was it Feingold said on TUESDAY? Something about COWERING?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_go_co/feingold_censure

Feingold Accuses Democrats of 'Cowering'
By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer Wed Mar 15, 7:20 AM ET

WASHINGTON - Wisconsin Sen. Russell Feingold accused fellow Democrats on Tuesday of cowering rather than joining him on trying to censure
President Bush over domestic spying.

"Democrats run and hide" when the administration invokes the war on terrorism, Feingold told reporters.

Feingold introduced censure legislation Monday in the Senate but not a single Democrat has embraced it. Several have said they want to see the results of a Senate Intelligence Committee investigation before supporting any punitive legislation.

Republicans dismissed the proposal Tuesday as being more about Feingold's 2008 presidential aspirations than Bush's actions. On and off the Senate floor, they have dared Democrats to vote for the resolution.

"I'm amazed at Democrats ... cowering with this president's numbers so low," Feingold said.


(snip)

Sounds like Dayton is executing some self-defense.

[rucky]

140. It's called Defiant Cowering

cowering with verve!

[EST]

83. Damn straight!

Grrrrr!

[katinmn]

123. We are!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=160x17678

[MadMaddie]

2. See here is my problem with Dayton and his statement...

Why did he have to go to the media and let the whole world know how he felt...

Why couldn't he have done this behind closed doors...He could have cussed Feingold out behind closed doors....

Why do they have to do this in the public eye??

No what's irresponsible is that you have done nothing "Dayton" to try and check this out of control administration!!

[cali]

12. I agree with you

Dayton should have confronted Feingold privately and steered clear of the press. I honestly don't know enough about Dayton to know how vigorously he's opposed bushco. Do you? I think we have a tendency to jump to conclusions without enough data to do so.

[MadMaddie]

17. You are right...there is not enough data...but dammit...

can they ever get on the same page....whether badly timed or not...it's an action....

[mattclearing]

34. The article itself contradicts that last statement.

It characterizes him as a harsh critic of the administration.

That said, I agree that it should have happened behind closed doors...I wonder if he's just the messenger on this one from other people who didn't want to own this repudiation.

[EST]

79. Right on!

It is profoundly irresponsible to try to polish your chops by blasting your fellow senator because you want to shout to all and sundry how irresponsible he is.
I realize that many here are sympathetic to that view, but the number of senators who have stood up to this murderous, irresponsible, counterfeit, illegal, immoral regime I could pretty much count on the thumbs of one hand.

The constant shit eating appeasement of and kowtowing to this monstrous enterprise has thrown this country into the worst, meanest condition it has ever experienced.

I cannot count the times I have seethed in impotent rage at the stark inability of the supposed "opposition" to stand up and shout the naked truth - that bush is a liar, a murderer, an incompetent ass!

Kerry took it up the ass! They abused him! They lied about him to his face and to the American people about him, and he would not say shit if he had a mouthful.

I remember well Al Gore, huffing and puffing and rolling up his eyes at the outrageous buffoonery of this tragic crew, losing a great portion of my respect and that of so many others, yet idiotically refusing to tell the godawful truth. He, too, knew the truth but wouldn't call shit on the emperor.
This technique, so precious to the "advisors," (puke-puke) has had disastrous consequences, yet somehow it is important to keep doing the same stupid shit that got us into this mess.

We have demanded that somebody, anybody, show a little spine and call bullshit on these crooks, yet, when one lone hero does, we immediately go into our little chicken squawking circle and bitch about his timing! Timing be damned and honor be nailed to a tree! It's time we quit saying such stupid, useless crap about "we got your back" when we ain't got anybody's back and have no fricking idea what that means. I've walked patrol enough times to KNOW what it means and it's not some little meaningless goody two-shoes bullshit.

I'm sick and disgusted with this tripe and I for one, applaud him and will walk point in the darkest, slimiest jungle for such a leader. I know, beyond doubt, he will not ask me to do anything he would not do himself and he will not get me hurt or killed by being too stammeringly indecisive to move and do his best.

This is the only damn senator to loudly and fearlessly go on record as opposing this mad, wretched junta and I am sick to death of the petty wrangling and criticism of his timing when no one else has the balls to do it. Their precious timing is never! To hell with 'em.


Soap box kicked safely back under bed (maybe)

[MH1]

134. *Ahem* Why did he (Feingold) have to go to the media....

See my post above..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=678466&mesg_id=680370

"Why couldn't he have done this behind closed doors...FEINGOLD could have cussed DEMOCRATS out behind closed doors...."

You see, I agree with you completely...but let's be fair about it. If it applies to Dayton, it applies to Feingold also.

[JerseygirlCT]

151. It does seem a bit hypocritical, doesn't it?

Chiding Feingold for going public w/o involving the others first because he's an attention-seeker.

So he chides him publicly for this -- why?

[SaveElmer]

3. Dayton is right...especially on his second comment...

"I think it's a very dangerous territory for the democracy that we have in this country to be playing around with those kinds of resolutions, without any consultations from his colleagues. I think it was irresponsible."

I don't know if this has anything to do with his pending Presidential run...but IMo he handled this badly.

[shraby]

28. It's dangerous territory for our constitution for

Feingold NOT to do anything. Everything does not need to be discussed into oblivion. Feingold did what his concience told him to do...make a stand. To make a stand on an issue does not take a committee. Ask Ghandi.

[SaveElmer]

39. He blew it...

On something of that magnitude he sould have consulted with others first, warned them what he was planning, try and garner support first. Now, it is a frickin media disaster which he could have easily forseen and headed off. The media and the public would have been debating censure instead of the cluster f*ck we have now. If I were Dayton I would be pissed too.

[AndyTiedye]

73. Everything is a Media Disaster When THEY Own the Media

I guess it's better if the Dems in Congress all just hide and hope the media doesn't notice that they are still there.

The media will ALWAYS say bad things about us. ALWAYS.

[SaveElmer]

76. Or perhaps...

Being a veteran legislator Feingold should realize the lay of the land and maximize his opportunity. He didn't...

If anything he set back the drive for censure in the way he went about it.

[AndyTiedye]

90. Or He Tried, and Nobody Else Would Stick their Necks Out

Those who are backing the censure motion now, are only responding to the large number of phone calls and emails they are getting on the issue.

That could only happen if he gave us a reason to call.


Does Mr. Dayton find it annoyong when his constituants call him in large numbers?
If so, perhaps he should find another line of work.

[SaveElmer]

103. When you have any evidence to back that up...let me know...

Feingold himself. on SUnday said he had not consulted his fellow Democrats...is he lying?

[AndyTiedye]

150. No Evidence, Other than Past Behavior of Senate Democrats Post-Wellstone

I don't see what is so radical about censuring the President for breaking the law.

[SaveElmer]

152. Other than that it is nearly unprecedented!!

One Presidential Censure in American History, and that was expunged...

It is very unusual, and a pretty radical proposal historically speaking. There have been more impeachments than Censures!!!

[PaDem]

132. agree.......

I for the life of me can't understand the near universal support for this on this forum.

[calmblueocean]

47. Who's "playing around"?

Feingold is the only one in Congress taking the matter of illegal surveillance seriously! The ones playing around are those who are so concerned with getting re-elected that they won't vote what they know in their hearts is right.

[SaveElmer]

68. That is hardly correct...

Jay Rockefeller has been all over this trying to get hearings...as have other Senators. Censure is not the only way to hold Bush accountable!

[Hubert Flottz]

88. "Jay Rockefeller has been all over this trying to get hearings"

And what has that amounted to so far? Russ, at the very least, has gotten the Domestic Spying story back out of the forgotten by the public stack, where the Dock story had placed it and it's being discussed in congress again!

I don't seem to recall who Senator Dayton even is! And I watch Senate coverage all the time. Dayton must not be a very dynamic democrat. What are some of the great things he has done? Help me out here...

Jay is my senator BTW, and I wish him the best, but until Russ raised hell the issue was relegated to the back burner department, by Bushco's flunky from Kansas who heads Jay's Committee, it seemed to me!

[SaveElmer]

104. What Russ has accomplished...

Is a cluster f*ck in the media over Democratic dissaray. Rather than talking about censure they are talking about process.

[Hubert Flottz]

114. But they are talking about Domestic Spying in congress again...

The Pubs had hoped to put that story to rest, but this kept the story very much alive.

[SaveElmer]

115. I hope you are right...

I am for the censure...I am just very disappointed that Sen. Feingold chose this way to present it. It could have been such a stronger statement, and these "process" stories could have been minimized

[Hubert Flottz]

118. I know how you feel...

I'm so sick of the way things have gone too. Maybe Russ did the best he could and that's all anyone can do. I'm glad he did something, because the domestic spying case was being swept under the rug, as fast as the pubs could sweep. I'm proud of anyone who fights back...

[frylock]

72. perhaps the reason feingold never consulted with these poltroons..

was because he KNEW he wouldn't get any support. Really, it's times like these that make me glad I'm an Independant. I don't know how any self-respecting Democrat can live with this party. I hope all this is worth that coveted swing vote.

[SaveElmer]

74. That is obviously not true...

He has gotten support since his announcement. He should have consulted with his natural allies on this. Kennedy, Boxer, Harkin, Kerry and others.

As to how I can live with the Democrats...easy...the alternative is the Republicans...

[K-W]

80. So it is dangerous to democracy to criticize the president?

Or just to criticize the president without Mark Dayton's permission?

And even though Feingold resolution is completely logical, entirely appropriate, and backed up by concrete facts, you agree that he is just playing around?

It seems to me that Mark Dayton is the only one playing around as he tries to belittle his colleagues very serious resolution because that colleague dared to do his job without asking permission first.

[SaveElmer]

81. Ridiculuous...and clearly not what I said....

Censure is a good idea...doing it the way Feingold did it was an open invitation to a public relations disaster...and he should have known that.

And since when is consultation permission...

[K-W]

84. That is what Mark Dayton said.

You said you agreed.

The way Fiengold did it was the only way it was going to get done. And I think he knows WAY more than you do about whether or not he could have gotten support from Democrats in private. The fact that some democrats support him now when the issue is out in the open does not indicate that he would have recieved support in the backrooms of the Democratic Party.

We arent talking about consultation here. The complaint is that Fiengold didnt get more democrats behind him before moving forward. Dayton doesnt want Fiengold to consult with him, he wants Fiengold to wait until the Democrats decide as a group to move forward. Had he consulted but still gone into this without support the criticisms would be the same.

[SaveElmer]

85. Mark Dayton did not say Feingold had to get PERMISSION...

Quit twisting words...

Again...here is the comment

"I think it's a very dangerous territory for the democracy that we have in this country to be playing around with those kinds of resolutions, without any consultations from his colleagues. I think it was irresponsible."


The way Feingold did it assures it will not get done...and we will be treated to many days of "Democrats in Disarray" stories.

[K-W]

87. Yah, its me and not politician Mark Dayton who is twisting words.

Are you really so naive as to think Dayton merely wanted to share his opinion?

The implication of both his and your criticisms of Feingold is that it was unwise for him to proceed independently when it would cause disagreements in the Democratic Party. This has nothing whatsoever to do with consultation, as Feingold could have consulted with them and STILL GONE ALONE against the opinions of people in the party.

So make up your mind, if you are upset that he didn't get consultation, thats fine, but its a pretty unimportant thing, Feingold is certainly not obligated to get Mark Dayton's opinion on things. If your criticism is that he went it alone against the wishes of members of his party (thus causing the appearance of disarray) then don't hide behind the word consultation like Mark Dayton did.

[SaveElmer]

100. You are twisting words...

You assume he is lying...do you know anything about Mark Dayton...? Obviously not...

Until today he was another darling of the progressives here...renowned for speaking his mind and a very harsh critic of Bush. And, the guy is retiring after one term.

The implication is that Feingold was unwise for moving forward without consultation, without gathering support, and without having the decency to even provide his fellow DEMOCRATS with a copy of the resolution before he proposed it.


Feingold screwed up...plain and simple, and was called out by Dayton for doing so.

[cascadiance]

109. If he'd WAITED for other Dems to "come around" to his position...

... we'd repeat the disaster that happened with the last minute attempt at an Alito fillibuster. They waited for Democratic consensus (which NEVER came, and NEVER would, with the DLC corporate bucks involved!) and it went down in flames, much to the chagrin of Democcrats everywhere.

At some point a politician has to stand up for what he believes in, even if his party isn't going to help. More people later saw the wisdom of Feingold's LONE stand against the Patriot Act, and later jumped on board with him when the topic came up again. What we are talking about is someone trying to lead us out of trouble and do the RIGHT thing, like Feingold's been doing with this Censure resolution. If the DLC and other special interest corrupted Democrats want to continue to sit back and do nothing while our nation goes down the tubes to an increasing dictatorship, that's THEIR problem, not Feingold's!

[SaveElmer]

112. Not the same thing...

No one is suggesting he wait until he gets everyone to agree with him. He needed to consult with his fellow Democrats, get as many on board as possible, and coordinate when this would be presented.

In contrast to his work on the Patriot Act, where he did work with fellow DEmocrats...this has all the earmarks of a stunt!

[cascadiance]

147. How many other "stunts" has Feingold engaged in?

I would challenge others who would challenge his integrity. The fact is that most of us here don't know what goes on behind the scenes on Capitol Hill there, and we don't really know whether or not the situation was that Feingold might have felt that he didn't have much choice but to do it the way he did it, if it was going to be brought forth, given the patterns that other Democrats have been working lately. I say there's a far GREATER track record of various DINOS and other Dems that are doing NOTHING and standing in the way of useful legislative efforts from happening (like the fillibuster of Alito, fighting the bankruptcy bill, etc.) I'm far more inclined to believe that Feingold did what he felt he had to do in order for this bill to come to the floor and be heard. We can disagree, because both of us are operating on our instincts as neither of us really know whether this was "grandstanding" or an honest effort by Feingold to overcome obstacles to get this before the Senate and the American people. And I as I noted, Feingold doesn't have a history of "grand standing" in the past, and therefore I'm more inclined to believe that he felt he needed to do it this way.

[SaveElmer]

149. I didn't say he viewed it as a stunt...

But that is what it looks like. He has been in politics long enough to know how important it is to organize carefully and to get others to support you. Particularly when you are proposing something as serious as a Presidential censure. His motives may have been pure, but his judgement stunk on this one.

[cascadiance]

160. We don't know what went on behind the scenes...

If through not cooperating behind closed doors because they wanted to stay "safe", the other Democrats in my estimation would have more to answer for having judgement that "stunk"! The fact is, we DON'T KNOW what Feingold had to deal with. Other Dems judgement STUNK when it came to not voting when it counted to fillibuster Alito, and many of their judgement STUNK when it came down to voting on the bankruptcy bill, and it STUNK when not questioning enough the authorization of war in Iraq, and it STUNK when they passed the Patriot Act with only reading it cursorly when it was thrown at them with little time to review, etc.

Sometimes, actions like what Feingold took might LOOK like it stinks because you don't see what went on behind the scenes. There are so many other times where Feingold is one of the few senators to take principled stands on things, that I have a hard time believing that he was the "odd one out" that tried to play politics with the other senators who weren't! It just doesn't add up for me that way! I'm not going to say he didn't play a political move here. I'm just saying that we don't have enough info to conclude that he was gaming the system and other Dems weren't in this instance. We just don't know. And I'm not going to swallow the corporate media koolaid marketing hype that suggests that he might. That sort of distortion is sort of par for the course on issues like this one for them.

[kevinbgoode]

106. I dont' agree

The Democrats wouldn't have handled this at all. . .seems to me like they would still be discussing this two years from now instead of taking a principled stand on something. And Dayton did not need to make this a public statement - a president was impeached for lying about a damned blowjob, and our party acts as if they can't muster the backbone to protect the entire population from illegal spying.

[SaveElmer]

107. In order to be effective you not only have to be right...

You have to be organized...a point Will Pitt was making in regards to this. Feingold was not organized, and as a result has set back the possibility of a decent public debate over censure.

[radio4progressives]

121. I completely disagree...

He handled this in just the way it needed to be done...

by the way, Dayton has very little credibility as a Democratic Senator who is so completely cowed over by this administration, for whatever reasons.

dollars to donuts, perhaps he and others are being blackmailed over some sort of ethics issue or something else - that may or may not come to light some time in the future..

[SaveElmer]

125. Well I have to tell you...

Mark Dayton seems to me to be someone who has always spoken his mind, and who has been a very sharp critic of Bush.

And as you know I do disagree on how this has been handled by Feingold. I think any speculation as to some nefarious motivation where Dayton is being blackmailed is really way out there...particularly since Dayton is not running for reelection.

[rucky]

138. Widdle Markie got his feelings hurt.

Who's grandstanding now, Dayton? You don't air your dirty laundry in public like that.

[madmunchie]

154. Why don't you join this idiot in the circular firing squad?

It makes me sick that every once in a while, one of our Democrats in Washington makes a statement that we have all been dying for somebody to make and then low and behold, the naysayers speak up!

Since when does any group in Washington made up of Democrats ever GET TOGETHER and stand united and call for some action when speaking out against the * team? Dubai doesn't count, because most of the Republicans were on the Democrats side, so the Democrats felt safe enough to speak out. Bush does deserve to be censured and EVERY DEMOCRAT that was voted into office should be behind this. I don't care if people think it is right or wrong. The Dems probably wouldn't support this anyway, they have no balls. I don't care if people think that this is political posturing, at least we know that Feingold has a spine which puts him at the top of my list for 08' candidates. The other spineless twits can pound salt. That is one thing about Republicans, they unite together faster and better than anybody in the Democratic party has in decades. The Democrats are too busy putting their tail between their legs in their effort to posture politically.

[SaveElmer]

159. Why is it the rabid dogs at DU cannot ever actually digest...

And understand what they are reading. As I have noted numerous times in this thread I support censure. I am criticizing Feingold for the way he went about it. Simply put, in my opinion, he screwed up. I understand he meant to do it the way he did it, but he was wrong, and now we are being treated to process stories instead of talk about censure.

[madmunchie]

166. No matter what APPROACH that Feingold would have taken

there would have been those who found him to be wrong on his approach, or lack thereof. His APPROACH was simple, he put his money where his mouth was, he spoke for so many of the people that actually voted Democrat in hopes that a Democrat, any Democrat would speak out, act out against Bush. Why is it that we are not focused on WHY the rest of the Democrats are still sitting on their hands? Why are we not looking at the fact that Feingold also tried to block passage of the Patriot Act (by the way, how many Democrats did that?) and then tried to hold Bush accountable for his illegal spying? That should be the question. We shouldn't be asking if it was right for a Democrat to stand up and actually take a stance against the President's illegal spying, but why the rest of the Democrats aren't falling in line to ask the same question.

How can we expect change when we are constantly having to deal with spineless Democrats doing the Republicans bidding. I know, we should have a nice debate on how this should be done, and then it should be brought to a vote and unless there is a clear majority, LETS NOT RISK TAKING A STANCE for fear of looking foolish (same old same old). Isn't this precisiely what the spineless twits are doing right now? AND how is * dealing with it? He is riding roughshot over the spineless twits and our country is being flushed down the toilet by * and most of the Democrats. Why have two parties, when the "opposing" party never really unifies to actually oppose?

The joker speaking out against Feingold should be strung up, HE is the problem.

[WI_DEM]

4. And he is not running for re-election

frankly he is over reacting.

[PBass]

7. Sounds like Dayton is doing some grandstanding of his own (eom)

[Jacobin]

64. ding ding. We have a winner

And lots of invitations to appear on Faux News.

[KittyWampus]

86. Again, at least you admit Feingold was also grandstanding

[mzmolly]

5. Your analysis is on.

:hi: I like critical thinkers.

[EST]

6. Good thing Feingold is not looking for friends in DC.

[Beelzebud]

8. Yes. Don't demand Bush be held accountable. Attack Feingold!

FUCK THE WASHINGTON D.C. DEMOCRATS.

I'm so tired of this band of frauds, it makes me SICK...

FUCK

[SaveElmer]

13. Dayton is hardly a DC Democrat...

He is one of the most liberal members in the Senate...and is retiring after one term.

[Beelzebud]

22. Good. Good riddance to the SOB. They should all follow his lead

and fucking retire.

[blm]

131. All who refused to sign DSM inquiry should fucking leave. All who refused

to lead a filibuster on Alito should leave. All who voted for Roberts should leave. All who voted AGAINST censure for Clinton so impeachment process can continue should leave.

Is that how you see it working?

[Nostradammit]

162. All who voted for the "Patriot" Act should fucking leave -

An 8 billion page complete overhaul of our civil rights appears magically overnight and only one of them had the wits to question it.

Or is that an extreme viewpoint?

[blm]

168. Extreme - Patriot Act can be retooled by the next Dem president. There was

a version of the Patriot Act that EVERY senator, including Feingold, was OK with, but it got changed again in committee.

The SC is actually the greater problem.

[Hubert Flottz]

56. The Neocons must have offered him a better job!

Or a bigger piece of the pie!

[SaveElmer]

69. Yeah I'm sure that's what it is...

:sarcasm:

[Divine Discontent]

23. please call that # I've provided in the thread

and say THAT exact message you just typed and tell that lady!

[AndyA]

31. I agree, let's not address the real issue here, let's beat around the bush

(Pardon the pun).

So now we have a whiny Democratic Senator who is pissed off because Feingold didn't talk to him before going forward with the Resolution to Censure President Bush. So, instead of going to Feingold with his beef, he airs his dirty laundry to the press!

This shit just makes me sick! The fact is, we have a President and an administration and a party in power that are in violation of the Constitution of the United States. It doesn't get much worse than that.

And the powers that be that are supposed to keep the system of checks and balances in place has dropped the ball completely! Now the opposition party, the Democrats, are also dropping the ball because they aren't doing anything to stop this rampant abuse.

They can't agree on anything, it seems. They don't act, they don't talk, they don't do anything. Every once in a while someone grandstands, which fuels the fire briefly, then it gets dropped again. Whatever happened to the deal when Reid forced a Closed Session a few months back? Where's that committee report we've been waiting on?

If the Democratic Party wants to know what's happened to America, they only have to look as far as their own front porch. They have allowed the criminal Republicans to totally screw up our country, virtually unchecked by any standard of competence.

It's way past time for the Democrats to DO SOMETHING. The polls show how Americans feel, but there's no one to grab hold of the reins and make things happen.

DEMOCRATS: SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING TO PUT A STOP TO THIS! You are aiding and abetting the criminals if you allow it to continue.

[reality based]

9. What democracy, Senator? You guys have given it away with

your cowardice in the face of the most serious challenge to this Republic in our lifetime.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. This is great, actually. It is in the news, and the issue isn't if

censure is good or bad, but about process.

That allows the average Joe to actually think about whether censure is a good thing.

[cali]

16. That's a good point. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

24. sorry,

but this hurts Democrats more than it helps. Sen. Dayton is not happy with Bush, and to go out and make those comments about Feingold playing around with censure is unforgivable. I wouldn't vote for him for dog catcher now. Does he not know they'll use his words against Feingold in the press like crazy now, AND if he runs for Pres, they'll use those words against him and others that have been spoken.

SHAME ON DAYTON

[John Q. Citizen]

99. Your apology is accepted :)

Your reply isn't reasoned but reactionary. But that's ok, because

you aren't in the US Senate. Neither am I. You and me are just a couple of posters on DU.

I like Feingold mostly, and I'm very glad he introduced censure because it gets people talking about it and thinking about. i've been thinking if he runs I might support him in the primary, or Gore, or Kerry.

I do think however, that if Feingold had worked with some other members of his party, that in of of itself, wouldn't have been a bad thing.

There is an old saying that there's no such thing as bad publicity. Think about it. This will make Feingold just look better to the base. Look in the mirror. I mean you!

Durbin has a right to be mad about whatever he wants to, and this seems reasonable to be upset about, at least to me. Durban isn't alone in the Demo caucas to be taken by suprise with the resolution.

Do I feel sorry for either Feingold or Durbin (Feingold for being verbally spanked for process or Durbin for being suprised by the censure motion?) No, I don't. I happen to believe both Feingold and Durbin are the good guys when it comes to the job of US Senator, and when it comes to the job of Democratic US Senator.

I'm a life long activist Democrat. It doesn't hurt me. In fact I'm glad everytime I see the words "censure" or "impeachment" in the Big Corporate Media.

[EST]

95. Sorry, IMO, the average Joe is incapable of critical thought.

Emotional side-taking, maybe, but not critical thinking.

[John Q. Citizen]

98. So you subscribe to the elite making all the decisions? By the

way, your apology is accepted. :)

[EST]

120. Mmmm...doesn't say anything about what I subscribe to.

At the risk of going even further afield, it may be assumed that I do take every reasonable opportunity to enlighten Mr. Average Joe, given that no one really needs to stay average.

[John Q. Citizen]

139. Plus average is that which no one quite is. I am

of the opinion that most people are capable of critical thinking, not that everyone is necessarily doing it all the time, though.

If I truly felt most weren't capable of critical thinking, I would be opposed to democracy. Why have a bunch of complete idiots deciding important issues, from initiatives to who our leaders should be?

Fortunatly I don't have to worry about that philosophical delemma.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

11. Feingold Has Balls.....

Let's all Kill him. How dare he!

[MadHound]

14. And here we go again

A Democrat takes a moral, responsible, POPULAR position, a position that the majority of Americans agree with it, and the rest of the party scolds him for daring to take on an unpopular president.

God this party is desperately in need of a spinal transplant:eyes:

[Beelzebud]

18. It doesn't need a spine transplant. The hydra needs its heads cut off.

We need new leadership from the top down.

[cali]

25. Sometimes I think the collective

IQ around here hovers around room temperature. Yes, I'm speaking of myself, too. We get so caught up something that we forget to look at things analytically. If Feingold wanted to make a real go a censuring, he's savy enough to know he needed others on board. That's just a fact. It's that corny old thing about lining all your ducks up in a row. He didn't do that. That's very unusual. Dayton shouldn't have spoken to the press, but the truth is, Feingold has been about as clumsy and unproductive about getting support for an important resolution, as he could possibly be. Sorry if that pisses people off, but it's just the obvious truth.

[MadHound]

46. So even though Feingold represents the opinion of a majority of Americans

He should just sit down, shut up, and let the rest of us get screwed again? Sorry, I don't buy that BS. Quite frankly I think that the main thing that is pissing off these Dems like Clayton is that Feingold is showing them up for the spineless corporate cowards that they are. God forbid that the so called opposition party actually opposed the president:eyes:

My guess is that Feingold probably tried to get support and get his ducks all lined up in a row, but the Dem corporate whores didn't want to rock the boat(again), and said that they wouldn't back him. Feingold got pissed and did it anyway, both to show up Bush for the criminal he is, and to show up the Dems for the craven cowards that they are.

What, are we supposed to keep our powder dry for awhile longer, just in case something really big comes up? Like this strategy of rolling over and pissing on ourselves to please Bushco has really made headway:eyes:

Damnit, innocent people are dying, our country is turning into a fascist state. It's high time that somebody stood up in Congress and demand justice. This is what Feingold is doing, and all the good in the world on him for this courageous stand. And shame on those Dems who oppose this move, hopefully they will be voted out of office for the sniveling cowards that they are.

[K-W]

55. I guess you must be in mensa then.

I mean you must be a real genius to start off your post with mudslinging rather than facts and logic.

Your post makes a stupid assumption, that assumpion being that Fiengold would have gotten support from these democrats had he gone to them first. I would love to see your evidence that he would have received this support.

The obvious truth is the Russ Fiengold is doing his job and responding to the American people (aka the voters) while other Democrats are more concerned with keeping the washington consensus intact.

Mark Dayton has literally equated critisizing the president with endangering democracy here, and thus demonstrated very clearly why Fiengold HAS to act alone.

[cali]

71. Please see Post #65 and please

note that it's Feingold, not Fiengold.

[K-W]

89. Wow correcting my typo's, you must be president of mensa.

And post 65 is a rant supporting Feingold and castigating Dayton which in no way supports your point.

[dogday]

59. The Democrats have taken the position that

they will just sit back and let the other party self-destruct. The problem with that is that the other side can twist and turn a situation in a heart-beat, so the Dems need to make a stand.. They need to show the public they are on their side.. The public is hungry for this.

One other point. We should be the party of Law... This should be about whether or not we support a president who breaks the law or whether we think he needs to know this is not right... And the Democrats need to be the party that gives people some hope....Just doing nothing gives no hope to noone....

[jane_pippin]

63. I posted a link to his press conference below. He addresses

his reasoning and timing and if you haven't read it, it's worth it. It might not change your mind, but then again it might. I do think it would go a long way in simply explaining what was behind all of this.

[dogday]

53. I think they could use some new gonads too! eom

[K-W]

15. So dangerous territory for a democracy is when congressmen do thier jobs?

Rather than answering to the party?

I guess we know were Mark Dayton stands.

If he wants to be annoyed with Fiengold, thats fine and dandy, but to suggest that our Democracy suffers because Fiengold did his job is ludacris.

Playing around with these kinds of resolutions? What on earth does that mean? The president broke the law, admited to breaking the law after lying about breaking the law and Fiengold introduces the timid response of a censure and we are supposed to think this is some kind of radical action that threatens democracy?

Since when does holding the powerful accountable(or at least scolding them) endanger democracy? The only thing it endangers is the powerful, which is apparently Mark Dayton's constituency.

[Hubert Flottz]

102. Let us not forget, that Russ Feingold was the only democrat who

didn't EVER, vote for a single one of the anti-American, unconstitutional, provisions of the "Patriot Act!" Russ is the one senator, who demonstrated a working brain when lesser men and women in our party, failed the country and failed our Constitution and failed our Bill of Rights. The rest were stampeded sheep. The rest were Bamboozled by Bushco and the "Terra-ists," into selling us out to the Bushtapo. Russ is a natural born leader and his stand on the "Patriot Act," in the face of extreme political pressure, has demonstrated his good sense and objectivity. It wasn't Patriots who voted for the "Patriot Act," but it WAS...A SINGLE Patriot who rejected it and who still rejects it today.

Leaders are hard for the democratic party to come by today and I will not ever be any part of the crew that crucifies this man, for his heart felt patriotism. God Bless you Russ Feingold, for looking after America the way every senator swore to do.

[Divine Discontent]

19. I JUST BLASTED MARK DAYTON WITH THE LADY AT HIS OFFICE

I said what does Sen Dayton think he's doing by COMPLAINING about Sen. Feingold hurting the party by doing this without talking with other Sen., BUT, in turn, doing the same THING (hurting the party) by putting this out for the press to chew up the Democrats with, and the Republican talk shows and internet sites to RIP dems on???

I said I was going to talk about this for a long time. Mark Dayton let me down.


CALL HIS OFFICE NOW -

612 727 5220


He should've called Feingold instead of going to the PRESS like this!

SHAME
SHAME
SHAME
on Sen. Dayton.
We've been gaining ground on DUBYA so clearly, and now to have these other Senators cower away tells me Dubya and his clan must have something on people like Dayton.

[K-W]

21. He didnt just claim he was hurting the party.

Apparently calling the President out on his lies and crimes aganist the American People endangers our democracy...

edit: It is amazing how easily some people can exchange the words 'empire' and 'democracy'

[KyndCulture]

26. Me too. nt.

[Coexist]

20. PLEASE CHANGE YOUR HEADLINE! Dayton has changed his mind:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=677514&mesg_id=677514

RDU Socialist (72 posts) Thu Mar-16-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. he's changed his position
http://firedoglake.blogspot.com/2006/03/dayton-wobbly-o...

It appears the phone calls are having an effect. Although Mark Dayton told Bloomberg that Feingold's censure resolution was "premature, and over- reaching, which often involves losing more than gaining," callers to his offices are now reporting that he has backed off of this and has decided to take no position.

[KyndCulture]

27. NO he has not, I just got off the phone with one of his aides.

He is still opposed as of 10 minutes ago.

[elmerdem]

29. woo fricking who...

..he decided to take no position! I don't understand. I guess it just proves the no spine thing.

[cali]

33. I'm sorry

I don't think it's appropriate to change it. He did say those things. He says he still thinks it's premature As far as I know, he hasn't retracted his criticism.

[KyndCulture]

35. He has not retracted it. I just spoke with his office here in Minnesota.

[rucky]

141. Ya think that one's gonna make it on the wires, too?

me neither.

The only time these f-ing idiots get any ink is when they're stabbing us in the back.

[KyndCulture]

32. I'm a Minnesotan and that statement is nothing but sour grapes.

He sounds like a damn 5 yr old that didn't get asked to play.

And yes I've already called and expressed my displeasure.

[PBass]

40. Lets not rush into anything.

They've only had four days to think it over and talk amongst themselves. :sarcasm:

[Hippo_Tron]

157. Dayton sounds like that on a regular basis

[Bok_Tukalo]

36. Has Feingold declared his intention to run for president?

Every time I have seen Feingold mentioned in relation to the censure story it is always thrown out there some variation of "potential 2008 presidential candidate."

[EFerrari]

37. Nice going, Mark. So helpful for the party.

Any other dirty laundry in that hamper? :sarcasm:

[KyndCulture]

44. He's a lame duck POS.... I'm sick of him.

He doesn't come out of his hidey hole very often and when he does it's usually something like this.

[katinmn]

135. ditto. Now I have to think of the "dangerous precedent" comment

regarding the challenge to Ohio's electoral votes. And I wanted to forget that.

http://atlas.kpix.com/news/local/2005/01/06/Boxer_Has_No_Regrets_About_Electoral_Challenge.html

"It's not often that I find myself rising in disagreement with (Boxer), but I must today emphatically disagree," said Sen. Mark Dayton, D-Minn.

"I believe that those involved in this, citizens from around the country with all their good intentions, are seriously misguided and leading us all into a very unfortunate precedent," he said.

[KyndCulture]

143. ewwww *shudder* bad memory!!!! nt.

[IsItJustMe]

38. Damn it, When your right, your right. You're wasting your time in trying

to get the Dem senators to stand up. Feingold did the right thing.

[Ganja Ninja]

41. So this is why the Dems are having such a hard time supporting

the censure resolution, internal party politics?!!! Nobody wants anybody else to look better than them is that it? Oh for crying out loud! Cheesis H Kee-reist on a cracker! What a bunch of fuckwads.
:mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead:

[cali]

51. No, that's a very simplistic way of looking at it.

If you can't see why Feingold should have gone to his fellow Dem Senators first, it's not worth explaining it to you.

[KyndCulture]

AND Dayton should have gone to him in private

and not in the freaking PRESS.

[Hubert Flottz]

108. Maybe he'd gone to them before, when he was the lone vioce on

the "Patriot Act," also...

[chaumont58]

42. Much ado about nothing

Feingold should have gotten his ducks in order, before he fired. But, even if he had, what difference would it had made. The Censure wasn't going any place, and still more, if it had, a censure has no standing, other than fluff.

As far as Dayton, maybe he should have done things privately, but remember, Feingold accused all Dems of running. Maybe he should have handled everything he touched differently.

Who is going to remember any of this next month?

[davidwparker]

43. To ask permission is to seek denial.

"I think it's a very dangerous territory for the democracy that we have in this country to be playing around with those kinds of resolutions, without any consultations from his colleagues. I think it was irresponsible."

To ask permission is to seek denial. Particularly, with this gutless Democratic leadership. Under the "leadership" of Reid and Pelosi, the Dem party is a joke -- not its principles, but its keystone cop leadership. He was right to take this position. Somebody has to do something besides hide and be afraid, be very afraid. His remark about being cowed by a president with such low numbers probably hit too close to home. Wonder what Dean and Hackett think?

"It's an overreaching step by someone who is grandstanding and running for president at the expense of his own party and his own country," Dayton said of Feingold, a Wisconsin senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate.

I pray he does run for president in 2008. He consistently votes for the principles of the party. The Dem leadership has screwed its own pooch long ago, demonstrated by a 2004 election that was far closer than it should have been. And, because the Dem leadership can't get off its knees, it, not Feingold, has put the country at peril.

Time to get a thank-you card to send to his office in support -- as someone on the blogs suggested we do.

[K-W]

48. Yah, that is the subtext.

He only wishes Fiengold had checked with the Dems so they could have stopped him. Or else why would he be complaining?

[Beelzebud]

49. Please Sir, May I hold the President accountable?

LOL

Thats what it sounds like to me :)

[magellan]

66. The Senator from Wisconsin is recognized

No, Sir, you may not hold the President accountable. Now sit down and sing along with the rest of us:

"It's illegal but we like it, we like it..."

[Individualist]

78. Dayton's comments stink,

and I smell DLC. They want nothing more than to turn the democratic party into a subservient branch of the republican party.

[Hubert Flottz]

92. "I smell DLC"

I caught the same strong aroma...Not a strong shift of wit, but a strong whiff of sh*t, total pub lite bullshit, to be more precise!

Pub lite is still pub.

[KyndCulture]

144. I smell Flambeau of LAME DUCK! nt.

[Hubert Flottz]

148. The Quacks, Quackers and Quackees are thick as fleas in DC!

I guess Bill Frist is the Mother Of All Quacks, but there are some ugly duckies in our party, who want to goose step with the fuhrer in chief too. Seems like the DLC guys want to be PC for the camera and they could care less about anything else. Studio Politicians like Bush?

[cali]

62. Consultation is not asking permission.

He could have gone to his fellow Senators, including Reid, and said something to the effect of: "I've concluded that the only just and moral thing to do is to introduce a Resolution of Censure, I'd like to have all of you on board, but whether I have to offer it alone or with 44 co-sponsors, I will offer it."

Dayton was dead wrong to go to the press. He should have approached Feingold privately, but Feingold should have known that this was NOT a persuasive way to get other Senators on board.

[davidwparker]

116. He really doesn't have to. He is an independent (not party) senator and

can act that way. He really doesn't need an okay from Reid or a group of tutu democrats to seek censure.

Nor does Rep. Conyers need to wait for Pelosi to pursue articles of impeachment. He is doing so, and thank God for him too.

[jane_pippin]

52. Here's a transcript of Russ' press conference about all of this.

(Not Dayton specifically of course, but the resolution).

It was posted somewhere here earlier today and I think he does a good job explaining his timing, his reasoning behind the resolution, as well as his thoughts on (and hopes about) other Democrats (and Republicans too).

http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/03/2006316.html

[EST]

111. Thank you. Very important read-puts it all in context.

Should be required reading prior to any further discussion and opinion wringing. We are an opinionated, emotional bunch and we stick to our opinions on principle.
The biggest pitfall seems to be some oozing in of behavior that we condemn when we detect it in republicans--that of holding loyalty to party above loyalty to country.

[jane_pippin]

117. I think so too. Thanks for taking a moment to read it over.

You're right--I think a lot of us (myself included) need to take a moment, a deep breath, read it and then see how we feel about all of this in light of it before we go getting so angry with one another. We're all on the same team here, after all.

[EST]

128. I can't really say we're all on the same team, however,

this is the place where people of deep integrity gang up and that's where I want to be and feel comfortable. Integrity is very under valued in politics - the very place where it's most needed.

[jane_pippin]

133. Oh, yeah, I agree.

I guess I meant we're all in this together, more or less. There's always room for a good knock down, drag out, hashing over of things--it can be a great way to learn something.

I don't know if that makes more sense, or if I misunderstood you. I apologize if I did. I'm rushing to get out the door to work and I'm a little distracted because if it.

"Integrity is very under valued in politics - the very place where it's most needed." Isn't that the truth!

[EST]

136. You did fine.

[Hutzpa]

54. We are FUCKING playing into their hands

this is exactly what these assholes wants, split the Dem's up and we're home free. What is he thinking, Minnesotans this is for you.

:puke: :mad:

[K-W]

61. Mark Dayton needs to figure out if he is a We or a Them.

Is a he a defender of the Washington status quo, or a democratic representative?

Is critisizing the criminal republican president really that dangerous Mark?

[flpoljunkie]

57. Dayton has also expressed support for Hillary Clinton for President.

He introduced her at some event last year. Saw it on the tube, but do not remember the particulars, but this stick out in my memory.

Here you go. Found a link.

http://www.hillary.org/hc/

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. Since he's not up for reelection, Dayton should be able to tell the

Republicanites what anatomically inmpossible thing they can do to themselves.

Instead, he seems to have gotten wimpier since he announced that he wasn't running again. :shrug:

[KyndCulture]

60. He's been in hiding ever since he made that announcement.

[Golden Raisin]

65. Feingold is the only one

worth a damn. Dayton and the senior hierarchy of the Democrat party leadership can waste more time & energy attacking, debating, and dilly-dallying with each other. Rome is fucking burning and the Visigoths are at the goddamn gates. The USA is being turned into a fascist state and Bush ignores and spits on the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Feingold is the only one with the balls to call Bush to account and point out that the Emperor has no clothes.

[The Stranger]

67. Fuck Dayton. Clean house. Throw him the fuck out of the party.

Maybe he can turn on the motherfucking television and note that the U.S. has nearly defaulted to the tune of trillions while the imbecile in the White House wants to invade another country.

Fuck Dayton. Clean house. Throw him the fuck out of the party.

[fujiyama]

165. Dayton's retiring anyways

but I agree with the sentiment - don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

This is the best he can do as a lame duck eh? Way to go to make yourself more irrelevant?

[Justice Is Comin]

70. I'm going to hit the nail on the head.

The polls for the spying do not refelect the kind of numbers that show it is angering the citizens. They are marshmallowy on this issue.

That's why the Republicans have been able to backhand this. There is no public outrage. If the public were not a bunch of dolts and up to date on the dangers of this, Democrats would be three deep backing the censure.

[rucky]

142. Why don't we just tear up the law books...

and be ruled by the court of public opinion?

aka

Anarchy.



and yes, you nailed it!

[zulchzulu]

75. Some hand a copy of the Constitution to Dayton...

Maybe he forgets what it looks like, let alone what it stands for...

[Beelzebud]

77. Yeah maybe he forgets he was sworn to uphold that old relic...

[mdmc]

91. rat worm

Go get em RUSS!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

94. Oh, boo-hoo, Mark did that nasty Russ get your tutu in a fluff?

Sounds like Minnesota could use a new senator. Perhaps a progressive?

[deutsey]

96. "dangerous territory"...man, we've been there for some time now

thanks to weenies like you, Dayton.

Sure, Feingold probably should have developed a much better strategy, but now that it's out there, why the fuck don't the Democrats scold him for his approach, but unite around the cause of censure?

[RhodaGrits]

97. Bush illegally spied on U.S. Citizens and broke the law and admits it.

Whether or not to censure the President for criminal activity requires extensive consultation and debate AMONG THE DEMOCRATS?

Are you for censuring the President or are you for condoning illegal activity by the President of the United States?

Dayton should be ashamed of himself - he was the one that was obviously grandstanding. If ever there is an obvious up or down vote it is this one. I'm just disgusted with our so called representatives. It's tea party time.

[cosmicdot]

101. did Sen. Feingold get blind-sided? who did Sen. Dayton consult?

We do wish Patrick Henry had consulted with us aristocratic legislators before being so critical of the King ... what's this 'give me liberty' overreach? ... being openly defiant ... that's dangerous territory ... irresponsible ... we think we should wait it out and see what the King does in November ... Patrick should trust our spine-less do-nothing strategy, or, at least, continue to do-nothing until our consultants tell us what to do ... let's not rock the boat ... let's pick and choose our battles carefully if we ever get around to choosing one or before we go drawing any line in the sand against the high crimes being committed against us ... what's next, Stamp Act Resolutions?? ... now, about that Tom Paine ...


I sense that Senator Feingold knows what the Democratic caucus would do to any censure resolution ... "I've got an idea, let's censure Bu$h ... what do you think Blanche Lincoln? ... how about you Tom Carper? ... Evan Bayh?" ... it would've gotten DLC'd to the complicit do little to nothing curb ... and, he certainly knows how the stolen-Republican control of the Senate operates ... it's past time to shake things up ... "one if by land, two if by sea" ... the current strategy, if there is one, isn't stopping Bu$hCo ... things are too dire for continued foot-dragging and following pseudo-leadership ... even we only think of Seniors and the disabled at risk dealing with that damn Medicare Rx plan which 11 Democrats voted FOR ... oh, but, let's wait to see if HAVA is change-friendly come November ... what more harm can happen to our country 'til then, right? Trust us.

Was Dayton chosen to "assail" Sen. Feingold in public because he's retiring his seat? did he act on his own?

[kevinbgoode]

105. The President broke the law, Senator Dayton

you took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Please resign.

[Solly Mack]

110. what does "at the expense of his own country" mean?

In light of the last 5 years, does that phrase have any meaning whatsoever? How could wanting to punish Bush for breaking the law possibly be bad for the country? Has Bush breaking the law, from the beginning, and all kinds of laws at that, been good for the country?

So will wanting to impeach Bush be seen as "grandstanding" and "at the expense of the country"?

Goodness. I want the entire Bush Regime imprisoned, so I must really want to destroy the country.

Let's just forget everything the Bush Regime has done to America and the world at large and "move on" - Let's call it "healing" and a "look to the future"....that way when (that's when, not if) another Bush-league President comes along we can all gasp and act shocked with the rumblings of mock outrage thrown in for good measure...

Shit or get off the pot folks - America can't wait.

[Skinner]

113. Whoo-wee! It's getting hot!

A barn-burner from Dayton. I think my eyebrows just got singed.

[EST]

119. He shouldna' be playin wit da matches an all dat hay...

[LSK]

122. Mark Dayton, one of the most unremarkable Senators out there

There is a group of Senators who we know more than others, for example Kerry, Boxer, Biden, Shumer, Clinton, Feingold, Levin, Durbin, Obama.

Then theres a group of Senators who are never in the headlines or in front of a camera. Dayton would make that list.

[never_get_over_it]

124. Isn't it funny

the Dems have the balls to criticize other Dems but don't have the balls to criticize Bush...sad really and Dayton isn't even going to run again. So Dayton crticizes Feingold for not consulting with his party but he doesn't consult with Feingold on his ciriticism but goes to the media - pot we have a kettle......

[SaveElmer]

126. Dayton has been sharply critical of Bush...

And has been criticized in the media for it as well.

[EFerrari]

146. What Dem with a pulse HASN'T been criticized in the media?

It's their effen' media.

Somebody tell Dayton he's in a political party, not a suicide pact.

[katinmn]

129. It is incredible. They can only attack each other

:crazy:

[jsamuel]

127. So, basically everyone who wants to run for President is pissed at Feingol

d right now because he is taking the attention away from them.

Same for people who want other people to be president.

[rucky]

137. With friends like this... nt

[ulysses]

145. so, censure is "at the expense of the country" but

the spying wasn't?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

153. There are about 20 things Bush should be impeached for - why this issue?

The 'Merkins will never get behind this. If he was truly serious about impeachment - he would have tried to impeach him for somthing other than this - as horrible as I and probably think the whole thing was.

Lets face it - unless the majority of 'Merkins support it - it will never get any traction at all.

[JI7]

155. Dayton's motives in this are about Hillary Clinton

he is supporting Hillary for Pres and doesn't want any other Dem to take away from her.

but he has decided not to run for re-election so he will be gone from the Senate anyways.

[Hippo_Tron]

156. Dayton's still bitter that Wellstone was always better than him

He's a lightweight who could never distinguish himself and was always overshadowed by Wellstone. He's a lame duck anyway so frankly I don't give a shit about what he has to say.

[Daylin Byak]

158. JUST FUCK IT...

Look screw Dayton, he's out the door in 10 months. Look we knew Feingold were going to get a blacklash from the cenure motion from the right and the DLC left so there. He can propose all the cenure motion he wants but it won't mean shit unless we control the Senate and were in the majority and that's that, i don't like but that's life.

As for you minnesotans, concentrate on keeping Dayton's seat from the hands of Mark Kennedy.

[Swamp Rat]

161. Talk about grandstanding!!!

:spank:

STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT!!!

SUPPORT FEINGOLD!!!

:patriot:

[Zinfandel]

163. I think its Rove's

end-run, round run, distort...Then nothing to support it..take it with a hesitating slow step, a step too late, and then we say, fucking...Republicans...

Smear...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

164. "...an overreaching step?"

Attacking rather than supporting Feingold is the overreaching step. An overreaching step by self-serving, spineless, cowards. We need REAL leadership. Feigold is one of just a few who is offering it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

167. Why couldn't he just keep his damn mouth shut?

I have always been a fan of Dayton and anti-Bush stances, but he has stepped over the line on this one. If he didn't like what Feingold did, fine, he's entitled to his opinion, BUT why the hell did he have to say it out loud? He's not running for reelection so this doesn't affect him in the least. By the time this centure actually happens, Dayton will probably be long gone. WTF? What's up his ass? THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY....THEY DON'T SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE!!!! THEY NEED TO START. ASAP!

[PBass]

169. The whole "Feingold should have consulted with Dems privately" shtick

reminds me of some TV commercials I've seen lately.

In one, some people are sitting in a restaurant when one of the diners starts choking. The other people at the table start 'analyzing' the situation with each other, and do nothing, while this person is choking to death. Finally somebody walks over and gives the guy the Heimlich maneuver, and saves him from choking.

In another one, a hiker starts sinking in some quicksand. The other hikers decide to form a comittee, "Bob you be the treasurer, and Phil will take the minutes...". Meanwhile the guy in the quicksand is going under the surface. Finally someone just grabs a rope, while the others are still holding their meeting, and the guy gets rescued.

By the time the Democratic party insiders have held their meetings and conducted their focus groups, the response is totally watered down and it's usually too late to actually do anything. Russ Feingold decided to grab the rope and do something, and now he's getting flak.