I'm really getting tired

[1956]

of people on this board as well as freepers, and last night, my favorite, Bill Maher,(on Scarborough) saying things like, "The Dems don't stand for anything!!!!" Yes, I'm not blind, the Dems have some issues,blah,blah,blah, but to hear that same negative phrase over again, is a lot like the terra alerts, or bird flu rhetoric, well, not really, but it gets pounded into the heads of all who are listening, like some bazarre subliminal message, and AFTER AWHILE EVERYONE STARTS TO BELIEVE IT!!! Let's try to NOT say it, for one day please! If we say they are spineless, we are contributors to the problem!!!

Plus, I totally disagree! I think that the Dems stand for everything good! And it starts with a basic brotherhood of ideas and freedom, the list goes on, but since I think most of us are on the same team, let's talk about all the GOOD things, and direct the negatives to the Rethuglicans, since they seem to stand for everything...that's corrupt, and seem to think nothing of selling their souls for MONEY. They are a selfish,greedy bunch, and that needs to be the subliminal message we get across for the media to pick up on.

[BootinUp]

1. So true, now duck. n/t

[MadMaddie]

2. Perhaps it's not that the Dems don't stand for anything....

we know the Dems do...

It's that the Dems in Congress have not fought for anything....They have to start fighting....

They have to fight....

[wisteria]

12. They fight, you have just not seen some of the battles or those

they do take on you don't care about.

[MadMaddie]

18. Actually I care and have been observing them since they have

been the minority....Don't get me wrong...there are some Dems that are fighting and they are alone....Why are they not fighting as a unified team...are you going to tell me that Lieberwhore has been fighting the good Dem fight?

When Murtha stood up and took a stand...what did most of them do....um, hem , unh this is not the right thing to do....

Feingold stands up and what the hell do most of them do....um,hem, this is not the right thing to do...

When they had the Ports issue and could have taken the lead and made it theirs what did they do...they let the F*&^ Repugs take the issue and let them make it their own....

When they could take the Katrina debacle and taken ownership...what did many of them do....well it was the state and local leaderships fault.....

I am pissed...just like many people out there....

[wisteria]

24. We can't have it both ways, either our Dem's are allowed to be

individuals and think independently or we have total conformity and no imagination or progression.

[converted_democrat]

13. I think you hit the nail on the head.. They have the belief & value system

that we do, they are just having a hard time standing up for those beliefs.. I'll be honest, I hope this is the case, I hope that they reason they aren't standing up is because they are scared.. Fear can be overcome. The other alternative reasons to why they aren't doing anything is too scary to even think about.. The "alternatives" mean that we as a country are in even more trouble than we realize at this juncture..

[wisteria]

17. Maybe they are smart! n/t

[converted_democrat]

19. How could that be construed as smart? I'm not trying to be a smart ass,

but how is that smart? If they're scared that's fine.. They can either shit or get off the pot for someone that will. Inaction over the long haul isn't "smart" no matter how you look at it.. If it's something they can overcome, than they need to get to it.. If they can't than they need to find another candidate to throw their support behind that isn't afraid..

[wisteria]

22. i don't think our senators are scared. I think they know this is a

bad move strategically and may not what to go alone with it. Maybe they were holding out for the big I instead of just a slap on the wrist.

[converted_democrat]

41. They've had more than one opportunity to get to it, and there has been

no real action, and even less coordination.. The port situation on its own was more than enough to do it, if they wanted to do it.. The Plame situation was more than enough, if it had been capitalized properly.. Hell, The Bankruptcy Bill if handled correctly could've been used to get them.. They've had clear shots, but they haven't taken them..

On edit- Let's not forget about us being lied into war, and our country is so far in debt, I don't know how we'll ever get out.. They've had plenty of shots..

[phantom power]

3. What is your explaination for the Dems hanging Feingold out to dry?

It's not like we out here in the real world told them to do that.

[wisteria]

9. Maybe they have issues with what he did or they are still reviewing

the resolution. In any event, give it a rest. Feingold deserves to be out their hanging, this is what he wanted or he would not have gone about doing what he did this way.

[phantom power]

14. He deserves to twist in the wind for doing his job?

For making Bush accountable for breaking the law?
For trying to actually enforce the checks and balances between the executive and legislative branches?

In your world, what does "stand for something" actually mean?

[wisteria]

21. Get real, all by himself. Oh please, what a Saint he isn't!

He didn't have to go it alone, he could have tried to gain some support or even told his fellow senators what he was doing. He chose to grandstand and bash them instead when they didn't follow right along immediately. It is always a stupid move to try to go it alone. And who says that Bush wasn't going to be held accountable after the November elections? Feingold just couldn't wait.

[phantom power]

32. I'm sure you're aware of this, but...

Bush and his Administration have been repeatedly shitting on the Constitution for five straight years now. It's not like this was the first opportunity that the Dems had to take Bush to task for some transgression. You say that if Feingold had waited, he could have gotten some Dems behind him. Why? They couldn't get their act together in the previous five years.

And furthermore, what's to think about? Bush broke the fucking law. It's in black and white. It doesn't get any more clean-cut. Feingold made a play to censure, so back him up! Good god, what are they going to lose?

I can think of exactly one time, since Bush took office, that the Dems united on something. That something was Social Security. And you know what? They won. They won even though they are in the minority, and the reason they won is because by standing together, they forced the GOP into ownership of their own bad idea. The GOP could have voted that crappy bill through, but everybody would have know that it was the GOP's bill, all the way, since the Dems all voted against it.

If the Dems unite, on almost any issue, the GOP will blink first, because they know their ideas are unpopular. And even if they don't, it just allows the Dems to club them during the 2006 campaigns.

A united Democratic caucus is lose/lose for the GOP. How can the Dems fail to see this, time after time...?

[phantom power]

37. What do you think the phrase "stand for something" means?

It was a real question.

[EFerrari]

20. Bull. Feingold deserved the full support of his party.

Especially Senate Democrats that took the same frickin' Oath of office he did.

[wisteria]

25. Why because you say so? n/t

[Iris]

35. yep. Along with a lot of other Americas, if the latest polls

are any reflection.

How will swing voters believe the Democrats can LEAD if they won't even try?

[wisteria]

4. I have had it with that mis-statement also. We do have Plans and

we do stand for the right things. Senator Kerry just recently listed a 10 point plan that describes what we stand for and how we will change the direction of this country for the good of us all.

[1956]

11. Good!

Something positive!

[wisteria]

5. delete/double post n/t

[dogday]

6. We can either approach this in one of two ways

1. We can do nothing and campaign on negativity, on how bad they are doing and hope that is enough.

2. We can frame what they are doing and use that against them and campaign on the fact that we called them on their actions.


I think a campaign of nothing but they are terrible is not going to do anything for our party.. We need to show people what this party stands for, to take the bull by the horns and show them a party that supports the Rule of Law....

[genieroze]

7. Maybe you should read this then.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/ipdi.html

[Redstone]

8. Well, if the elected Democrats would START standing for something,

maybe people wouldn't be saying that, would they?

The PEOPLE in the Democratic party stand for lots of good things; the problem is that 80% of the Democratic Congresspeople and Seantors are fucking gutless. And you know that's truue.

Redstone

[wisteria]

15. Bullsh*t. I disagree, just because they don't behave as you want

them to and fightabout everything like children, does not make them gutless. Some people actually have plenty of guts but no brains.

[MadHound]

10. It isn't that the Dems don't stand for anything,

It's just that the Dems won't FIGHT for anything. Time and again over the past six years they have caved on issues that are vital for our future. No, I haven't expected them to win every battle, but goddamnit, at least go down swinging!

And now, when Bushco's ratings are at the lowest, and the number of scandals at its highest, they have been handed club after club to beat Bushco around the head and shoulders with. Yet each and every time, they simply drop the club and walk away from the fight.

Meanwhile, the rest of us have been sold down the river on everything from the war to the Patriot Act, to the Supreme Court nominations. These people are supposed to be our reps, fight for our interests, yet they haven't done so for too long a time.

Is it too damn much for us to demand that they actually act like an opposition party? I don't think so.

[1956]

16. Y'know...

If even the Rethuglicans are being pressured and bullied to stay in line by the WH, what kind of things are they doing to the Dems? Isn't it possible that since they act like the mafia, that they are treating "the enemy" with threats on their families? The Dems may be in a terrible position we don't fully know about.

[BootinUp]

27. Its not even that

The Senators and Congressman can't be unified whent there is 52% support for something. That essentially means there is a split on the issue geographically and some of their colleagues are going to be killed on it at the next election.

[msatty99]

29. I am convinced that the NSA eavesdropping

was used to obtain blackmail material on EVERYBODY and the DEMS know it.

Hey Senator... do you really want us to release this tape of you and your mistress ?
Hey Congressman... do you really want the public to know about that Cayman Island
account of yours?

Hey Committee chair...do you really want the world to know what you say about Hillary
in private???

What a great tool for one not afraid to use it.

The reason I am so convinced that this is going on is that I don't believe our
whistleblowers would have come forward if the only thing going on was eavesdropping on
people talking to terrorists. The motivation isn't there for a dedicated NSA guy or gal
if that's all that is going on.

And notice how NOBODY really knows what the program did.... even Arlen Spectre was in the
dark.

But I think... its black mail pure and simple.

[Wind Dancer]

31. Bingo! n/t

[Iris]

23. Sorry to disappoint you. But I'm really getting tired of the Democrats

standing up for absolutley nothing.

I don't believe there's any strategy to this. I honestly believe they are like whipped dogs at this point.

the thing about the Republicans is they stick together (or at least they have until lately). I don't see any Democrats supporting each other that way.




edited for spelling in title.

[wisteria]

28. Sorry to disapoint you, but I don't agree. If you can make a statement

like you did that they never fight and are whipped dogs, why are you still here. Go find a party that suits you more.

[Iris]

30. Ok. Sure. I'll just go become a republican.

That sounds like a freeper reply if I ever heard one.

[Zodiak]

33. I agree with this

as a party....whipped dogs. But mostly the whipped dog attitude comes from roughly half of the Dem Sentors.

The only Dems who are cajoled to stay in line are us rank and filers who are asked time and time again to sit tight and wait while we lose everything this country stands for.

6 years is a damned long time to bide one's time and give the benefit of the doubt.

And by the way, I refuse to believe that after everythig we have seen that there is any "strategy" to what the mainstream Dems are doing other than enjoying the perks of office and expecting the votes of the left on a silver platter for doing nothing.

[Minnesota Libra]

26. With all due respect I DISAGREE especially on censure issue.......

.....this was the Democrats one chance to stand united for something worthwile. I mean come on - get real - if we can impeach a President for lieing about sex then surely to god we can censure a WH squatter for sending over 1700 of our young people to die based on NOTHING BUT LIES about WMD that didn't exist. If you can show me an issue more important than the lives of our young people and the shreding of our Constitution maybe I could agree with you on this.

[MadMaddie]

34. You are right...Minnesota Libra

They were able to stand together to impeach Clinton yet they cannot stand together to censure * (a man who disrepects and scorns them and Congress on a daily basis and has broken the law of the land)?

And for everyone that keeps saying that this is not the right time for a censure, then when is the right time...

will it be after the US attacks Iran....?
will it be after another Katrina?
or maybe another 9/11....
When is the right time....are we going to wait until the poll numbers go below 30%....

[msatty99]

36. Blackmail I tell you!

I may be cynical but I think there is too much possible 'face time' for a dem that goes on attack
mode against the Prez. If they weren't being black mailed somebody would be tearing this admin
apart limb by limb.

I also know that a lot of these people are spineless..but that's nothing new. Self interest would
cause them to attack. Lots of time on the news..maybe even a Hardball gig.

NOPE...the NSA program tied them all right up and that's why they are all emasculated.

We need somebody with guts.

[izzie]

38. If they say it enough they may believe it. I will say this

I would like to see some one who seems to be brave come out and do some thing. I just loved Feingold and what he has done. He seems to be the only may who has stood up for the every day people. Lets hear from Gore some more. Even if he does not run he still got more votes than Bush and should have been President.

[Rude Horner]

39. I think the important thing is ...

what the general consensus is of the people. Most polls I've ever seen that talk about how dissatisfied the American people are with Republican leadership ALSO STATE that a majority of Americans feel the Dems haven't showed them an alternative.

As long as the Dems are perceived as weak on issues, we are in danger of not turning the tide in the next elections. The Democratic leadership MUST show they are strong, and MUST send a clear signal to the American people that they do have plans, and that they do stand up and fight for what they believe in. And that they are unified in their general beliefs. Obviously there are going to be times that they don't all agree on the best course of action, but when the President breaks the law, they MUST stand up with one voice! I think most approval polls for this president clearly show that the vast majority of Americans would greatly respect the Dems if they did that.

Like the rude pundit said, Americans are starving for the Democrats to take a stand, and unfortunately it seems more like every stand they take is by one individual. One person stands up and the rest of them cower down and wait to see what the reaction is going to be. What I like to call - the "Whack a mole" approach.

[Iris]

40. and . . . BINGO

well put, Rude!

[Ksec]

42. The plan is to do nothing

and watch the republic party die with their own ideology.

If we get involved , then the repukes can blame us so why do that? Just sit back and watch as they commit suicide. Its not like they allowed us a voice in the past 6 years. They shut us up at every occasion and now they want us to be all vocal as they die slowly?

I think its a brilliant plan.