A St. Patrick's Day Message:

[H2O Man]

I thought DUers might enjoy a quote from Robert Emmet, after being found guilty of treason for having participated in the United Irishmen's 1798 Uprising. On September 19, 1803, "Lord" Norbury, a man suffering from Scalia character disorder, called the Irish "mean and wicked enthusiasts (who were) not equal to the accomplishment of their wild designs."

Emmet, a 23-year old poet-warrior, delivered what is considered on of the classic speeches. For those of you who do not have a copy of William Jennings Bryan's "The World's Famous Orations" (Funk & Wagnalls Co, NYC, 1906, pages 137-48) handy, read aloud with the Water Man:

"... My lords, it may be a part of the system of angry justice, to bow a man's mind by humiliation to the purposed ignominy of the scaffold; but worse to me than the purposed shame, or the scaffold's terrors, would be the shame of such unfounded imputations as have been laid against me in this court: you, my lord (Norbury), are a judge, I am the supposed culprit; I am a man, you are a man, also; by a revolution of power, we might change places, tho we never could change characters; if I stand at the bar of this court, and dare not vindicate my character, what a farce is your justice? If I stand at this bar and dare not vindicate my character, how dare you calumniate it? Does the sentence of death which your unhallowed policy inflicts on my body, also condemn my tongue to silence and my reputation to reproach? Your executioner may abridge the period of my existence, but while I exist I shall not forbear to vindicate my character and my motives from your aspertions; and as a man to whom fame is dearer than life, I will make the last use of that life in doing justice to the reputation which is to live after me, and which is the only legacy I can leave to those I honor and love, and for whomI am proud to perish. As men, my lord, we must appear at that great day at one common tribunal, and it will then remain for the researcher of all hearts to show a collective universe who was engaged in the most virtuous actions, or actuated by the purest motives -- my country's oppressors, or --"

At this time, Emmet was told to be quiet and listen to his sentence. He continued to deliver his message. Two hundred and three years later, Robert, we still hear you.

[H2O Man]

1. Wolfe Tone, on being sentenced to death:

The legendary Wolfe Tone requested that he be shot by firing squad, rather than being hung, to honor his role as a soldier. Instead, the English sentenced him to a criminal's death. He is described as having worn a French military uniform to court on the November 1798 day he was sentenced to death.

For the next 61 years, it was illegal in Ireland to recite or have a copy of the last paragraph of his speech to the court. Two hundred and eight years later, we can appreciate why:

"I have labored to create a people in Ireland by raising three millions of my countrymen to the rank of citizens. I have labored to abolish the infernal spirit of religious persecution, by uniting the Catholics and Dissenters. To the former I owe more than can ever be repaid. The servicesI was so fortunate as to render them they rewarded munificently; but they did more: when the public cry was raised against me -- when the friends of my youth swarmed off and let me alone -- the Catholics did not desert me; they had the virtue even to sacrifice their own interests to a rigid principle of honor; they refused, tho strongly urged, to disgrace a man who, whatever his conduct toward the government might have been, had faithfully and conscientiously discharged his duty towards them; and in doing, tho it was in my own case, I will say they showed an instance of public virtue of which I know not whether there exists another example."

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

2. H20 Man, thank you for both of those famous quotes.

On a personal note, my favorite uncle was named after Robert Emmet and the Gaelic football club that my husband played for and we supported for over 26 years here in Chicago was named for Theobald Wolfe Tone.

Have a great Paddy's Day!!!

[H2O Man]

5. A a great St Padraic's Day to you.

I may end up posting the poem my grandfather (x7) wrote from a Limerick dungeon, sentenced to hang for his role in the 1798 Uprising. It was smuggled out, pasted to the bottem of a plate with a potato peel, and is now housed in the Royal Irish Academy with some of his other works.

[stop the bleeding]

9. I would really be interested in seeing that piece of history, National

Geographic has a good piece on the Celtic cultures this month.

Happy shamrock day!!

[Coexist]

10. Please do!

I would love to read it.

[H2O Man]

15. Here goes:

I shared this with SLAD a couple of years ago. It was authored in 1798.

"What shall I suffer walking up and down this dismal place
from light to light, with no companion but a man who
(three times flogged) lies dying in a corner, a still breathing corpse;
and legions of rats of all ages, which have forgotten the timidity of their species,
and lord it here with hereditary sway:

Hail! solitude, all gloomy horrors hail!
For truth has led me to thy dismal shrine.
In her bright face all earthly glories pale;
Thy darkest den is filled with light divine.
What shall I suffer?
After this, nothing.

There were three happy fellows on every lamp bridge,
as I was crossing here; the lantern hoops were breaking;
so I must wait till some kind friend drops off.
They nearly took up (or occupied) all the little footpath,
and the toes of some of them were touching it.

As I passed, I though what a splendid and economical
plan for lamp-lighting; for by its piercing rays the whole earth could see
into the dark hearts of a distant people,
and follow its each individual to the world's end
while he carries one grain of pride.
In the glory of such bright eternal light,
who would not wish to burn?
Not Typhus, not Smallpox. No! No!"

[stop the bleeding]

16. What courage - bookmarked...

Hail! solitude, all gloomy horrors hail!
For truth has led me to thy dismal shrine.
In her bright face all earthly glories pale;
Thy darkest den is filled with light divine.
What shall I suffer?
After this, nothing.


This is the quintessential human struggle.

Thanks H2O Man I will keep this in the back of my mind whenever I am facing a difficult road ahead.


Peace

[H2O Man]

19. I like that.

Sometimes I think there should be a movie made about 1798. It was a strange time around the globe. In Ireland, some of the greatest political thinkers of recorded history were gathered together. They were not, however, the greatest of military minds, and didn't enjoy the benefits of the Big Pond between them and that empire, nor the advantages of the Indian influence.

But some of the most poetic of speeches came from that group.

I have a nice collection from my grandfather(x7)'s works, and works about him. Those, along with histories of the other United Irishmen, would seem the stuff of a great film.

[stop the bleeding]

22. Over the next few months when appropriate maybe you could share

some more of these writings from your grandfather(x7) and his colleagues.

History often has the answers that are needed for today's problems and issues.


In the words of the DMB:

How can I turn away
Brother/Sister go dancing
Through my head
Human as to human
The future is no place
To place your better days

Cry freedom cry
From a crowd 10,000 wide
Hope laid upon hope
That this crowd will not subside
Let this flag burn to dust
And a new a fair design be raised
While we wait head in hands
Hands in prayer
And fall into a dreamless sleep again
And we wave our hands

Hands and feet are all alike
But gold between divide us
Hands and feet are all alike
But fear between divide us
All slip away.....


Rest of song is here, it has been on mind a lot lately, even though it was written in reference to South African Apartheid I think it is very apropos for here in the now.

http://www.lyricsondemand.com/d/davematthewsbandlyrics/cryfreedomlyrics.html

[Coexist]

18. Wow!

[Bridget Burke]

7. The French gave Wolfe Tone the flag...

Now used by the Republic. Patterned, of course, on the French Flag. But with Green, White & Orange--to symbolize Irish unity, no matter the religion. Of course the Empire needed to destroy that concept.

[seemslikeadream]

3. Meet me at Peggy Barclay's

Tavern in Sugarhouse Entry, off High St., Belfast. We can meet Thomas McCabe and discuss the restoration and preservation of our liberty. Maybe we'll get arrested for helping publish The Morning Star and writing seditious material. It's not that far away, only 200 years ago. I think DU is alot like Peggy's.

Thomas McCabe, the noted radical, and in 1776 vigorously opposed plans by the city's merchants to fit out ship for the transportation of slaves; the proposal was dropped.


The Wind That Shakes The Barley

I sat within the valley green
I sat me with my true love.
My sad heart strove the two between
The old love and the new love.
The old for her the new
That made me think on Ireland dearly.
While soft the wind blew down the glade
and shook the golden barley.
T'was hard the woeful words to frame
To break the ties that bound us.
But harder still to bear the shame
of foreign chains around us.
And so I said the mountain glen
I'll meet at morning early.
And I'll join the bold united men
While soft winds shook the barley.
T'was sad I kissed away her tears
My fond arm round her flinging.
When a foe, man's shot burst on our ears
From out the wild woods ringing.
A bullet pierced my true love's side
In live's young spring so early.
And on my breast in blood she died
While soft winds shook the barley.
But blood for blood without remorse
I've ta'en at oulart hollow.
I've lain my true love's clay like corpse
Where I full soon must follow.
Around her grave I've wandered drear
Noon, night, and morning early.
With breaking heart when e'er I hear
The wind that shakes the barley.

[druidity33]

20. as sung by Solas

This song is a treasure. Hadn't known the poem til i heard the song, now to be honest i can't separate the two. From the album Sunny Spells and Scattered Showers... i think.

slainte!

[seemslikeadream]

41. Yes Sunny Spells And Scattered Showers

Another one of my favorites from that CD

Vanished Like The Snow
Tell me, where did Helen go?
This is where she had her dwelling
She has vanished like the snow
Where there is no way of telling
This is where she had her dwelling
And the while they come and they go
Where there is no way of telling
She has vanished like the snow

What became of Heloise?
Abelard, he was her lover
Once they lived in Saint-Denis
Where they've gone, I can't discover
Abelard, he was her lover
All the while they come and they go
Where they've gone I can't discover
They have vanished like the snow

Joan came riding from the rain
Everybody knows the story
England burned her in the rain
Theirs the shame and hers the glory
Everybody knows the story
All the while they come and they go
England's shame and France's glory
When she vanished like the snow

Where's the times and where's the places?
That is what I'd like to know
For they gloried in their graces
When they vanished like the snow

[Octafish]

4. Thanks, H20 Man. Oustanding.

..."shall not forbear to vindicate my character and my motives from your aspertions..."



http://www.ireland-information.com/articles/robertemmet.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Emmet

Happy St. Patrick's Day, H20 Man and DU!

[Bridget Burke]

6. Robert Emmet was Protestant

As were many Irish patriots. And many of the Irish heavily featured in our "English" literature courses.

He belonged to the United Irishmen--founded in Belfast. But Empires prefer that their subjects remain divided. Catholic/Church of Ireland/Nonconformist or Shia/Sunni.

[H2O Man]

13. Very important points.

One of my favorite Irish-American songs, beautifully done by Eileen Ivers & Immigrant Soul, is "Reconciliation." The lyrics by Ron Kavana describe in beautiful metaphor a fight between an older couple. The music and singing is beautiful, and gives voice to the need for healing of the wounds that others have inflicted.

"When the summer time has gone
and autumn winds are threatening
to blow our love away
tis then our love will be tested.
Arm in arm we'll stand
side by side together
to face the common foe
who would tear our love asunder.

Toora loora lay, toora loora laddie
toora loora lay, toora lay

All ye fair weather friends
where are you now we need you?
Gone like the autumn rain
on dark December mornings.
When hard times come around
like dark and stormy weather
there's only you and I my love
to shelter one another.

(chorus)

Now there's a time to fight
and there's a time for healing.
As the sun will melt the snow
on clear bright April mornings.
Our fight has run its course
now's the time for healing
so let us both embrace
sweet reconciliation.

[terip64]

8. My favorite book: Trinity by Leon Uris

Best book ever, for me anyway. The Outer Most House by Henry Beston probably second.

I can still remember the night I finished Trinity for the first time, 20 years ago on a very stormy night. My two baby girls were sleeping in the bedroom probably 10 feet away from me and my young husband was working late. I kept getting up and just staring at the girls and feeling so fortunate to be safe and warm and fed. I will fight with every Irish bone in my body for justice in this country and I am sure I am not alone. Rest easy, fellow Irishmen, over our dead bodies will this country go down!

[Catrina]

60. My father told me to read Trinity ~ I bought it but didn't get around to

reading it for a long time ~ When we moved out to Eastern LI, I was thrilled to learn that Leon Uris was practically a neighbor ~ Through my husband's work, I got to meet him ~ I was too shy to ask him to sign a copy of Exodus and Trinity ~ but he was very down to earth and when my husband told him I would like to him to sign a book, he called me inside, sent my husband to his little office to get some copies of both books, and happily signed them ~

I apologized for intruding on his personal time (we were in his house) and he said 'Intruding?' and he looked surprised and went on to say that he loved it when people asked him to sign his books ~

I got a little more courage then, and asked him about Trinity ~ (which I had begun to read that summer) ~ I was so impressed by the amount of research it must have taken to write it and he said that he had gone to the North of Ireland and spent time with the RUC and also with the IRA. He said he experienced firsthand some pretty dangerous moments ~

He really loved the people of Ireland and told us many stories about his time there ~ I noticed in his house how many books on the history of Ireland he had ~ I was very sad when he died.

One thing about him, he was working on his last book at the time, and he always used a typewriter, even though he had a computer in the house. My husband asked why he didn't work on the computer. He said that he was the last American novelist to do all his writing on a typewriter and he wanted to keep it that way ~

He was great fun, and loved to tease people ~ I will always treasure the two books he signed for me ~ he was a great writer, and a surprisingly simple man. He loved this little island and spent most of his time here before his death.

Since childhood, when I read Exodus, I had always imagined what he might be like. I never thought I'd get to meet him and it was really by chance that I did. I'm glad I did ~

[Raksha]

68. Thank you for posting this.

I read Exodus when I was in my teens and Trinity much later (since it was written much later). The fact that Leon Uris wrote Trinity is yet another instance of the spiritual kinship between our two peoples.

[Catrina]

74. You're welcome ~

I do agree with you. As a child growing up in Ireland I read many books about its sad history and also read about the history of the Jews, equally sad.

Someone further down in the thread said that the Irish people have an inate sense of justice ~ if so, I think it is because of their history, much of which was plagued with injustices ~ so it was probably natural to feel a sense of outrage at your history also. That's why I loved Exodus ~ it presented hope, after so much dispair ~

Leon Uris obviously felt a spiritual relationship to the people of Ireland ~ I wish I had asked more questions now, but you always think you have forever ~

11. Happy Ireland Day

Three hundred years after the deluge,
It is a tale of truth, as I reckon,
All holy Ireland was desert,
Until Partholon came.

The fourteenth, on (day of) Mars,
They put their noble barks
Into the port of fair lands, blue, clear,
In Innbhear Sceine of bright shields.

- Keating on first conquest of Ireland

[PATRICK]

12. Ireland symbolizes the truth of democracy

that it is a work in progress. Those who achieved a united nation, a united people, a democracy across the whole land, peace and prosperity and justice for all, seemingly, have just as seemingly arrived.

And those who have arrived and seemingly settled in too soon depart, the restlessness of human perfection.

Ireland is a land and people that has never quite arrived so it know what democracy is as a long work in progress, a long road of sacrifice, a road worth traveling, but a destination not easily attained.

That is the story of the human race, too soon settling down, somewhere in comfort and pretension, and gilding the New Eden. The true human path is one traveled upon, albeit forcibly, by one of the least of peoples. So America, filled by the Irish Diaspora with family heritages like my own, has to get off its imperialized butt and follow the humbler, more dynamic and noble example.

Minus the violence, of course. Hey, no one's perfect.

[obreaslan]

14. Since we are posting poignant quotes, Don't forget James Connolly....

"We believe in constitutional action in normal times; we believe in revolutionary action in exceptional times." James Connolly, from The Workers Republic, 4 December 1915.

I believe James Connolly's words, not just in this quote but others as well, embody the spirit of what goes on here on DU on a daily basis. Hopefully more people will read about this man who not only fought for freedom but spent most of his life fighting tirelessly for workers rights. Even organizing for the IWW in America as well as Ireland.

More here, if interested...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Connolly

[H2O Man]

17. Very good !

I have the story of John Philpot Curran at a debating society, in the 1871 "Irish Wit and Humor," which honors "the Men of '48." It's a wonderful old book, autographed on "october 13tt, 1876, from annie to Patt, With much Love."

Young Curran is beginning his journey as a public speaker by debating with a group of Irish, who gather to debate the issues of the day. It reminds me of DU.

[texpatriot2004]

21. A kick for the Irish nm

[hang a left]

31. Hey there you are.

I haven't seen you in so long. I even started a thread asking if anyone had seen you this morning. Someone said you moved to Canada? How are you?

[texpatriot2004]

56. Hey thanks for noticing...I only moved to Canada in my mind. I

am moving to New Mexico and have been consumed with trying to find a house here; the market is horrid. I have been checking DU but not posting much. It's nice to know that someone misses my input here. I certainly miss being a more active part of DU. I am still here. My beliefs are still the same. My heart is with you all who feel as I do. Take care of yourself. Talk to you soon.

[hang a left]

59. Hi Sister

Sending you positive vibes on the house hunt. Take good care of yourself. Will watch for you. :hug:



Sorry H20 for the hijack :)

[cassiepriam]

23. An Irish lament about death and war, Danny Boy

This is a bit different from the other posts here with the theme of courage, liberty, death. This is the other side of the coin, the family who deeply morns the loss of those killed in senseless wars. I still cry every time I hear this song. I say an "Ave" now for all those being murdered by the sociopaths in power.


Oh Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen, and down the mountain side
The summer's gone, and all the flowers are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must bide.
But come ye back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be here in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny boy, oh Danny boy, I love you so.

And if you come, when all the flowers are dying
And I am dead, as dead I well may be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.

And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams will warm and sweeter be
If you'll not fail to tell me that you love me
I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.

[seemslikeadream]

26. And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

Paddy's Lament Lyrics

Well it's by the hush, me boys, and sure that's to MIND your noise
And listen to poor Paddy's sad narration
I was by hunger stressed, and in poverty distressed
So I took a thought I'd leave the Irish nation

Well I sold me horse and cow, my little pigs and sow
My FATHER'S FARM of land I soon did part with
And me sweetheart Bid McGee, I'm afraid I'll never see
For I left her there that morning broken-hearted

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have ye's not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

Well myself and a hundred more, to America sailed o'er
Our fortunes to be making we were thinkin'
When we got to Yankee land, they put guns into our hands
SAYING "Paddy, you must go and fight for Lincoln"

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have YOUSE not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

General Meagher to us he said, if you get shot or lose your Head
Every MOTHER'S SON of youse will get a pension
Well in the war I lost me leg, AND ALL I'VE NOW'S a wooden peg
And by soul it is the truth to you I mention

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have YOUSE not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

Well I think myself in luck, if I get fed on Indianbuck
And old Ireland is the country I delight in
To the devil, I would say, God curse Americay
For the truth I've had enough of your hard fightin

Here's you boys, now take my advice
To America I'll have YOUSE not be going
There is nothing here but war, where the murderin' cannons roar
And I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

I wish I was at home
I wish I was at home
I wish I was at home in dear old Dublin

--Sinead O'Connor

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

27. I despise that song.

It was played at my father's, my two brother's and all my uncles' Funeral Masses as their coffins were rolled down the aisle at the end.

I never want to hear that particular song again in my lifetime...

Just reading the lyrics, makes me cry....

[seemslikeadream]

29. sorry mohinoaklawnillinois

very sorry

[cassiepriam]

30. Very sorry to trigger sad memories; we Irish feel everything deeply

It is all that Celtic blood, our DNA is different!

This was the prayer, a well known Irish blessing, at my sister's funeral:

May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face.
And rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the hollow of His hand.

Amen

Still makes me cry to read it.
Love and light to you mohinoaklawnillinois

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

33. That was the verse my sister-in-law had printed on my

brother Terry's remembrance card for his wake. He died April 4, 2003.

I still miss him, my brother Tom and my father every day...

[H2O Man]

34. It's a powerful song.

Fot many American sports fans, it took on a very different meaning when the great Irish boxer Barry McGuigan entered the ring to win a world title, and his Dad sang the song. Last night, when my sons and I entered a local city where my son was going to spar (not fight) their top dog, I put on the version from the "Cash" CD.

On my father's side, almost everyone was either a cop or a boxer or both, so I heard that song a lot.

There is an old saying, which always reminds me of when my father died: "Ahir, vick machree - vick machree - wuil thu marra wo'um? Wuil thu marra wo'um?" It translates approximately to: "Father, son of my heart, son of my heart, are you dead from me? Are you dead from me?" I'm not sure than words translate as well as music.

[cassiepriam]

36. I hope you are happy H20 Man, I am crying my eyes out :)

And loving every minute of it. Irish speeches, poems, songs, prayers. (I love John McDermott's version of DB.)

We are a proud, stubborn, strong, sentimental, ancient people. We feel things with our souls.

I love the quote. What does it mean to be a son of my heart? That our families are never dead from us, they are in our hearts forever? I like to think so.

Thank you for this thread H20 Man. Blessings to you on this St. Patrick's Day. And thank you also for all the good work you have done for all of us and our just cause. You are a living example of Profiles In Courage.

[stop the bleeding]

37. "We feel things with our souls."

ain't that the truth.

[seemslikeadream]

39. That's it stop the bleeding

There are many people who have no idea what that means

[H2O Man]

42. Yes, that's it,

and more. They are alive in your heart, and in a more complex manner than a memory. It's the genetic imprint. When I was a young man, my father's cousin, then an elderly man, gave me some family treasures, including some writings by and about the grandfather (x7) who wrote the poem from the dungeon. A few years later, my grandfather's cousin gave me the family bible, complete with tin-types etc, brought from Ireland a short bit after the Great Starvation. And, of course, I've added to it with research, and a friend at the Royal Irish Academy. So I know what they thought and looked like generations ago, and it's not that different than how we think and look today. Styles of clothes and technology change, but character remains.

Languages suffer from literal translations, but I think that Irish Americans recognize the beauty and the power of their native tongue. When I say the words "cushla machree," it translates to "pulse of my heart." But it intends a type of romantic passion. "Manim asthee hu," meaning "my soul's within you," shares much the same intention. These communicate an experiencing of life's energy that our culture in America today is too often cut off from. My experience of life's energy has convinced me that there is no death, only a change of worlds.

[H2O Man]

48. You might find this

interesting. This is one of my grandfather's cousins. My grandfather was born in 1874 in Ireland. One of his uncles had come to the US years earlier, and this was his oldest son, born in Ireland, who came to the US as a small child. This could be a photo of my younger son, if the hair were darker.

[H2O Man]

49. This may not show it

well. It's an old photo of my son -- though not as old as the other photo.

[cassiepriam]

54. OK, I have goosebumps. My god, it is uncanny.

I like to think the Celtic blood in your family will live forever. The courage, the wisdom, the strength. I believe that that the Celtic spirit is unique in the universe. May it live forever and transcend time and space. :))

Thanks my friend for a special St Patrick's Day conversation. Blessings to you and yours, that little one is a doll.

[dflprincess]

55. That is incredible

And your son bears an uncanny resemblence to my eldest nephew (maybe we're related - that's the trouble with the Irish, we all look alike).

I have a picture of my great-great-grandfather who also happens to be Mike Farrell's (yes, that Mike Farrell) great-great-grandfather and the resemblence between them is nearly as strong as your pictures. (Though I must confess that Mr. Farrell lives in blissful ignorance of the fact he's my very distant cousin, but I've had some fun with this.)

[stop the bleeding]

66. That blood runs strong

may it run for strong another age

[cassiepriam]

53. Yes, I know. The DNA is there and always will be.

A very handsome lad.

My grandfather was born in Ireland about the same time as yours, in County Mayo. Where are your people from?

[H2O Man]

62. They started in Kerry,

but in the 18th century, lost much of their land to outside interests. Then they moved to Limerick. My great grandfather lived outside a hamlet called Glenagore, near Athea. He came here a bit after his father died, and brought his father's shillelagh with him. It sets behind me now as I write this.

Since my auto accident, I've had to use a walking stick when I hobble around. I ordered a beautiful blackthorn walking stick from "Creative Irish Gifts" (see www.shopirish.com item: OK002). When it arrived, my son was surprised it was like the one I have. "Too good for the old stick, are ya?", he taunted me, his sense of humor proof that my late father is not too far away. A while later, a second one showed up, as he wanted to contribute to the collection I have.

One last story to bore you with: a couple years ago, I was contacted by a young man who was studying the family tree. A distant cousin, who was taking his mother on a trip to Ireland. He had a wonderful amount of information he gathered from the internet, and someone told him of a strange old man who knew quite a bit about the family, so he called me. He wanted to know how to get to the place where his grandfather (x4) came from. I mailed him a photo of his grandmother (x4) in the family cemetery, and suggested that he take this photo to the priest in Athea. He asked how he might repay me, and I told him that I am a collector of rocks, and that three colorful pebbles from the old farm would be nice. He sent me the pebbles and some great photos of his trip.

Should I get where I can travel (accidents are a drag), I am going to visit some cousins who live 12 miles from the old farm. Since my book came out a few years back, there has been more contact between those here and there than there has been since 1952, when for some long forgotten reason, it had dropped off. Last summer, relatives from coast to coast gathered at my home, people from 2 to their early 90s.

This thread has been a pleasure.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

69. H20Man, this thread has been wonderful and thank you

for starting it.

We have the same phenomenom in my family as well with people of the present generation looking like people from two or three generations back..

In 1991 we had a "cousin's party" for all my first cousins on my Dad's side. My cousin Linda inherited a lot of old family pictures from her Mother, my Aunt Mary, when she died. Linda had a picture of my grandfather that was taken when he was about 25 years old. When I glanced at it first, I could have sworn it was my nephew and godson.
Obviously upon closer inspection, it was Grandpa, but it totally freaked out not only me, but my sister-in-law (his mother) as well. It was absolutely uncanny. BTW, my nephew was named for his great-grandfather.

The other thing that I've noticed in my many trips to Ireland with Mr. Wonderful, is that you'll see people walking the streets that strongly resemble dead relatives...It's kinda freaky, but you do get used to it...

[H2O Man]

72. There's an old saying

"the ancestor and the womb are the same thing." Or, as it says in Ecclesiastes ("the Preacher") 1:9, "The thing that has been, is the thing that shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun."

[cassiepriam]

70. I never get tired of such stories, they warm my heart.

Brings up so many memories of my very Irish grandmother and grandfather, who both came to America as young adults.

I hope you mend from your accident and can make the trip back to the old farm. I have not made the trip myself, but I hear the Irish cousins are very glad to see us when we come to visit! I hope your son can go with you!

I think this thread has been the best ever celebration of St. Patrick's Day. Maybe you should think about making it a DU tradition. Every St. Patrick's day we post Irish/Celtic songs, speeches, poems, prayers. Family memories, family stories, etc.

Our ancestors fought for their freedom for hundreds of years. And we are fighting for ours today. We need to feel the invisible thread that binds us all together.

[H2O Man]

73. Yes, we should

do this every St. Patrick's Day. It has been fun.

[cassiepriam]

81. Yes we should! BTW Have you ever heard of Mac Sean Laoic-

Son of the Old Warrior?

My family is supposed to be descended from him. But I am not able to obtain any info about him. Do you know anything? I suppose it will turn out he was hung as a horse thief or some such scandal. Break it to me gently if you know. :)

[cassiepriam]

52. My friend you are preaching to the choir. Maybe we were druids

together eons ago in the misty hills of the emerald isle :)

Of course we are energy beings, and our ancestral energy is passed on life to life, for all eternity. Your grandfather literally lives within your soul and body DNA. (where do you think part of your courage and wisdom is coming from?)

And you will live in your grandchildren's hearts forever. It is a genetic and soul imprint. And love is the glue that holds it all together.

[EFerrari]

24. Lovely and appreciated, H2O Man.

:)

[Shakespeare]

25. We'll celebrate with a reading of Bradbury's one-act The Anthem Sprinters

Followed by colcannon for dinner, and probably a viewing of The Quiet Man for post-dinner entertainment.

(and if you haven't read any of the one-acts from Bradbury's Anthem Sprinters collection, there is NO better day to do so than St. Patrick's Day)

Anybody besides me familiar with what an anthem sprinter is? :-)

[H2O Man]

35. Please explain ...

what an anthem sprinter is?

[Shakespeare]

38. An anthem sprinter....

These one-acts (including the title play) grew out of Bradbury's experiences living in Ireland while he was writing the screenplay for John Huston's adaptation of Moby Dick. Apparently, the Irish (of which I count myself one through ancestry) will bet on anything, especially if it gives them an excuse to enjoy a pint at some point.

In movie theaters in Ireland back in the day (I have no idea if they still do this), the theater would play "God Save the Queen" (the "anthem") after the movie's final credits had run. Clubs were formed in local pubs, and they'd sponsor (and bet upon) their fastest member. Whoever could make it from the theater (startign as soon as the song began) back to the pub the fastest won (pints all around!). Some were reputed to be so fast that they'd make it to the pub before the anthem finished playing at the theater. One such club (featured in its own one-act) was "The Queen's Own Evaders."

It's a delightful one-act, and Bradbury's affection for the Irish really shows.

[bleever]

28. The happiest of St. Patrick's Days to DU, and to you, H2O Man.

A poem by Austin Clarke:


Penal Law

Burn Ovid with the rest. Lovers will find
A hedge-school for themselves and learn by heart
All that the clergy banish from the mind,
When hands are joined and head bows in the dark.



Much joy to all at DU, our own "hedge-school".

[Me.]

32. K & R

[KittyWampus]

40. Maud Gonne- Ireland's Joan of Arc (and member of Golden Dawn)

Let's not forget the women! :)

Maude was a vital force in the fight for independance in Ireland and also instrumental in the Golden Dawn. Biographies of Maude seldom mention her esoteric studies and practise and rarely detail the link between her and Yeats. They were were Mystically Married.
.........................................................

Maud Gonne, the daughter of a colonel in the British Army, was born on 20th December, in Aldershot in 1865. After her mother's early death she was sent to be educated in Paris. Her father was from a wealth Irish family and in 1882 she joined him in Dublin.

Maude Gonne's father died in 1886 and left her financially independent. She returned to France where she met and fell in love with the radical journalist, Lucien Millevoye. Influenced by Millevoye's political views, Maud became involved in radical politics.

Maude Gonne moved to Ireland and settled in Donegal where she was active in the campaign to protect those evicted from their homes. This included building huts, fund-raising and writing to newspapers. Threatened with arrest, Maud fled to France in 1890 where she gave birth to Millevoye's child. While living in Paris she edited L'Irlande Libre, a monthly journal that promoted Irish independence.

In 1900 Maude Gonne ended her relationship with Millevoye and returned to Ireland where she founded the revolutionary group, the Daughters of Erin. The organization also produced the monthly journal, The Irish Woman, and she contributed several articles on feminist and political topics.

Together with William Butler Yeats Maude Gonne helped establish the Abbey Theatre in Dublin. Yeats fell in love with her and his feelings for her inspired a large number of poems. In 1902 Gonne played the leading role in his play, Kathleen Ni Houlihan.

In 1903 Maude Gonne married John MacBride, a major of the Irish Brigade. After giving birth to Seán MacBride, she joined Constance Markievicz, James Connolly and James Larkin and Maud Gonne in the campaign to force the authorities to extend the 1906 Provision of School Meals Act to Ireland. She also started a scheme to feed poor children in Dublin.

During the First World War Maud joined Constance Markievicz, Hanna Sheehy Skeffington and Kathleen Clarke in the campaign against the conscription of Irish men into the British Army.

On 5th May 1916 John MacBride was executed for his part in the Easter Rising. Maud continued to campaign against conscription and in 1918 she was arrested and interned in Holloway Prison in London.

After her release Maude Gonne returned to Ireland and worked for the White Cross, an organization that helped the victims of the War of Independence and their dependents. Together with Charlotte Despard she collected first-hand evidence of army and police atrocities in Cork and Kerry. The two women also formed the Women's Prisoners' Defence League to support republican prisoners.

In 1923 Maude Gonne was imprisoned without charge by the Free State government and was one of the 91 women who went on hunger strike while in prison.

Maude Gonne's son, Seán MacBride, also became involved in politics and in 1936 became Chief of Staff of the Irish Republican Army. In 1938, she published her memoirs, A Servant of the Queen.

Maud Gonne died at Roebuck, Clonskeagh, on 27th April, 1953 and afterwards was buried in the Republican Plot in Glasnevin Cemetery, Dublin

[H2O Man]

44. Right.

The role of Irish women is one of the primary reasons that Irish people were considered a threat to American culture in the mid-1800s. My father's great aunt Mary came to this country in the 1870s. She would become a railroad telegrapher, and a union activist. In fact, she would be a charter member of the Order of Railroad Telegraphers Union. This was at a time that most white women in America were not engaged in this type of work. It was people like Aunt Mary who made it possible for Eleanor Roosevelt to change American society, my father always told me.

Dad told me about Aunt Bridget, too. She was "otherwordly," and made a living reading tea leaves. She was known by the hobos, who "marked" the fence in front of the house. Bridget would give the hobos her nephews' new clothes. When grandpa and his brother complained, Bridget would say, "But one of them may be Jesus in disguise," and tell of how Jesus often appeared in the clothing of a hobo in the old country.

Aunt Honora was a clerk on the Erie, and Joanna worked in "the foreign section" of the stock market. Elizabeth was known as "a free spirit," and did whatever she pleased. These ladies came from Ireland in their youth, and in their old age, they made sure every niece and nephew went to a Rutgers or Syracuse.

Irish women played a huge, under-appreciated role in American society.

[Missy Vixen]

71. H2OMan, my maternal grandmother

>She was "otherwordly," and made a living reading tea leaves.<

also read tea leaves. I have no idea if she charged for her readings. My mother told me repeatedly during my childhood that there is psychic ability on her side, and I seem to have inherited a very overactive intuition.

My mother's side is Irish.

Julie

[H2O Man]

75. I am convinced

that all of us have an intuitive side. Some of us develope it. But most people have it chiseled out of them by the time they are seven or eight. I think that our modern culture is more restrictive, and less in tune with human nature, than any other. Society would pressure people to listen to Dr. Phil and to take a prescription that numbs them, rather than to feel the joy and terror of being human.

I think our grandmothers would warn us about being too invested in the nonsense that this culture deems of value. Maybe they are warning us, but we have forgotten how to listen correctly. Maybe those tea leaves .....

[cassiepriam]

79. LOL We Irish women have known all along how powerful we are,

but just let the men in the family think they are the ones running the show. :)

In my father's very Irish family the boys and men ate the best food, served in the nice dining room, while the girls ate the leftovers in the kitchen. But like your aunts, my aunts were powerful intelligent women who made the family what it was. Education was a must.

[Raksha]

51. I will never forget Maud Gonne, but it's good to be reminded anyway.

My favorite poet, William Butler Yeats, fell in love with her at first sight and loved her for the rest of his life, although they never married. So many of his poems and several plays were about her, and I've memorized many of them.

And yes, along with Yeats she was a member of the Golden Dawn.

This is the spiritual history and spiritual sustenance I need right now. Again, thank you for reminding me. My background is Eastern European Jewish and I don't have a drop of Irish blood (as far as I know), but in some mysterious way there is a kinship with the heroes of Ireland's long struggle for freedom, and with those who immortalized it in poetry.

With the BFEE, we are up against a tremendously powerful and well-financed instrument of evil and oppression. But NOT more formidable than what they were up against! And yet they prevailed, even though it took generations. That's about the only thing that gives me hope right now.

[H2O Man]

64. That powerful force .....

I think that some of it can be found in that Good Book. And a person doesn't have to be "religious" .... whatever that is, or isn't. Anyhow, what you wrote reminds me of a few of my favorite verses:

"For enquire, I pray thee, of a former age, and prepare yourself to the search of your fathers; for we are but of yesterday, and know little, for our days on earth are a shadow. Shall they not teach you, and tell you, and utter words out from the heart?" -- Job 8:8-10

"Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in ancient days, in generations of old." -- Isaiah 51:9

"Hearken to me, those who follow after righteousness, and who seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn ..." -- Isaiah 51:4

[Raksha]

67. Thank you for posting those quotations, H2OMan.

And I think you're absolutely right: About the only people who rival the Irish for sheer, determined, never-give-up cussedness are the Jews! At times it seens (even to non-Jews) that we've had divine help in that area, and I don't rule it out myself.

I might as well tell you that I see a lot of that same quality in you. I've bookmarked many of your posts including this one, and since reading about your heroic grandfather(7x), I think you may be not only a descendant but a reincarnation. And yet for a long time, I believed "Patrick O'Waterman" was just a screen name. I thought your real name was Waterman and that you were Jewish! I understand now that I was wrong, but I hope you take that as a compliment.

Here is a poem in honor of Maud Gonne. It was a hard choice picking out just one poem, but this one has always seemed to me to express the dynamic of the relationship between her and Yeats the best.

NO SECOND TROY

Why should I blame her that she filled my days
With misery, or that she would of late
Have taught to ignorant men most violent ways
Or hurled the little streets upon the great,
Had they but courage equal to desire?
What could have made her peaceful with a mind
That nobleness made simple as a fire,
With beauty like a tightened bow, a kind
That is not natural in an age like this,
Being high and solitary and most stern?
Why, what could she have done, being what she is?
Was there another Troy for her to burn?

[H2O Man]

76. I certainly take that

as a compliment. "Waterman" is the English translation of "Water Man," a Haudenosaunee name and "job." Tribal people who learn to survive on the margins of an empire can become the influence that helps the human beings within that empire survive, when the machine gives. Hence Cahill's wonderful series of books start with the Irish saving civilization, and the gift of the Jews. I think we see here, on this thread, that everyone was tribal at one point, and that all the tribes of humanity once understood the Original Instructions ..... and maybe, just maybe, those concepts will help our human family survive this difficult time.

[Raksha]

77. Thanks...I was hoping you'd see it that way. n/t

[Donailin]

43. Happy St. Patrick's Day. Waterman

God Bless you and your family. :-)

[H2O Man]

45. Thank you.

And a Happy St. Patrick's Day -- and weekend -- to you and your family!

[CatWoman]

46. Hope you're having a wonderful St. Patrick's Day,

:hi:

[H2O Man]

50. And you, too!

Happy St. Patrick's Day to you!

[senseandsensibility]

47. The language itself is inspiring

Compare that to the dumbed down, "You're with us or against us" of the chimp administration. And that's one of their most articulate messages!

[conning]

80. Instead of the either/or,

the Irish mind seems to prefer the both/and. Compare "you are either for us or against us" with "you are both for us and against us." There seems to be a deliberate delight in ambiguity and paradox.

[im10ashus]

57. Powerfully humbling and sobering.

May the road rise to greet you, H20 Man!

:toast:

[lostexpectation]

58. Photo of Ireland today

sorry im bitter and angry:)

[symbolman]

61. Aye and these are some lovely thoughts and poems

me mother's maiden name was Larrigan, and I was raised as an altar boy from my wee start :)

I have a theory that encased within the soul of an Irishman (or woman) is a "Justice" gene. For some reason just about every person I've met of Irish decent seems to much more easily know RIGHT from WRONG, and has No Fear of revealing it to one and all.

It lies betwixt the rambunctious and violent genes unfortunately, but on the other hand there was or may still be a time when a good ass whipping or punch in the mouth (between grown men of course) was a way of teaching other brutes some manners.

But deep within the soul of what some may call a lout there is the deepest sensitivity of any group of people I have known. When my mother died while I was a youth no one questioned while we sat at her wake and laughed all night long, an Irish wake is a celebration, for some reason we may even be more attuned to the universe and understand the death and rebirth saga of all things a little more than others.

The Irish in my opinion have ALWAYS lived between two worlds, in all they do, whether they make the best cops or criminals, the best crook or Man of the cloth, and whatever world they inhabit they seem to have a knack for making it the best for others, or the best of it, period.

Just some thoughts on this special day, when I think of my sacred mother and her passing more than usual.

I thank each and every one of you for your thoughts today, and a top O' the morning to H2OMan, who has never been anything less than a gentleman, and more than a mere man in each and every situation I've seen him in, or read from him :)

[H2O Man]

63. I agree about that gene.

It's just there, from an early age. I think I've told you about how my one daughter, at the age of nine, was listening to a sermon during a service at a nearby church she attends with her mother and sister. I go a few times per year. All of a sudden, my daughter raises her hand, and when the pastor calls on her, my girl said, "Uh, if we really believe the things Jesus said, then we shouldn't have money. There shouldn't be things in stores that poor people can't afford. That's not what Jesus wants."

The reaction was interesting. The old folks in the congregation in particular were impressed. I think that is part of the story of gospels though, isn't it? That the old folks in a congregation will note the wisdom of the young people, and will encourage the "adults" to take the time to listen. Sometimes we get so busy that it would be possible to drive home and not realize one of your kids is still in the back of the church, talking with the elders. In Ireland, that type of child is called a "changeling."

[im10ashus]

65. And a child shall lead them.

Or something like that.

[cassiepriam]

78. Beautifully said symbolman. I am going to start crying again :)

Your mother is always with you, please know that. As H20 man says, the son of your heart, or daughter in this case. When you think of your mother, put your hand on your heart area, you can feel the warmth underneath your hand, that is where she is.......

I am blessed (or cursed) with this truth and justice "gene", apparent at a very early age. I can remember feeling a strong negative visceral reaction to politics from an early age, things seemed so wrong to me, the Viet Nam war, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, BushCo. I was so perplexed that few could see it as clearly as I did. I have always felt like I have been born on the wrong planet, most people seem to have some missing pieces.

Yes those stubborn, aggressive genes are there as well. I can flash to anger in an instant and literally see red. I am also highly irreverent, question everything, am beyond stubborn and will fight to the bitter end for a just cause. Deep sensitivity, I feel the world around me in an intuitive almost psychic way. Another curse and blessing.

I love the part about the Irish living in two worlds. This is true on so many levels. The dark, the light, the poet, the fighter, the saint, the sinner. A study in duality and complexity. No wonder I feel crazy most of the time :))

Whether it is fate, karma or coincidence, like our ancestors we find ourselves living a a dark oppressive time. Where truth, justice, freedom are at stake. The very survival of America and its people. I ask that if our ancestors are lurking about, and I believe they are, they give us the strength, courage and wisdom we need at this time.