Who remembers wearing their "I gave to the IRA" sticker without being

[RB TexLa]

accused of being a terrorist?

[truebrit71]

1. Why would anyone wear that sticker in the first place.

BTW the IRA ARE fucking terrorists....

[cspanlovr]

10. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

..as the saying goes.

[Bucky]

16. One man's subway bomb is another man's ironic social commentary

Did I get that right?

[derby378]

2. "And the Black and Tan like lightning ran..."

"...from the rifles of the IRA."

I also enjoy Johnson's Motor Car, too. Another great IRA rebel song. And nobody gets hurt.

[RB TexLa]

6. "Craigavon sent the Specials out,

To shoot the people down,
He thought the IRA were dead,
In dear old Belfast town,
But he got a rude awakening,
With cannon and grenade,
When he met the first Batallion,
Of the Belfast Brigade."

[Syncronaut Seven]

17. Solidarity.

Fuck the Brits, and their little dog Blair too! I know, It was supposed to be that the Irish were left with nothing but stones and sticks for protection. Surprise!

Just because the imperial bullies wear a veneer of civilization, doesn't make them civilized. Go ahead, Ask Jerry Adams about british false flag terrorist attacks. Study Irish history a bit more and see if YOU can figure out who the "bad" guys are.

There is no honor in surrender to fascists.

[truebrit71]

67. Fuck Jerry Adams.

And Fuck you pal.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

80. Just for accuracy, the man's name is Gerry Adams.

And I think it's time this thread got locked by the admins.

It's getting totally out of hand and totally stupid to boot.

[truebrit71]

85. No, actually the correct spelling is "Fucking Tool"...

;-)

[Syncronaut Seven]

18. Your little fella looks like a terrorist!

Better lock him down now, just in case.

[ourbluenation]

63. well I'm off to Dublin in the green, in the green

Where the helmets glisten in the sun
Where the bayonets flash and the rifles crash
To the rattle of a Thompson gun

Oh I am a merry ploughboy and I ploughed the fields all day
Till a sudden thought came to my head that I should roam away
For I'm sick and tired of slavery since the day that I was born
And I'm off to join the IRA, and I'm off tomorrow morn

I'll leave aside my pick and spade, I'll leave aside my plough
I'll leave aside my horse and yoke, I no longer need them now
And I'll leave aside my Mary, she's the girl that I adore
And I wonder if she'll think of me when she hears the rifles roar

And when the war is over and dear old Ireland is free
I'll take her to the church to wed, and a rebel's wife she'll be
Well, some men fight for silver and some men fight for gold
But the IRA are fighting for the land that the Saxons stole

[savemefromdumbya]

3. They almost blew me up in Manchester, UK!

Certainly considered terrorists in the UK

[Tyler Durden]

21. They did blow up my cousins.

They were from County Armagh. Probably killed by PROVOS, not SEIN FEIN, but hey, the bomb didn't care either.

[BlackHeart]

4. Uhmmm...

no one? Haven't they always been a terrorist org?

[MadHound]

7. Depends on who you talk to

You talk to the British, and sure, they'll call the IRA terrorists. Talk to most of the Irish and they'll tell you that the IRA is either fighting for freedom from England, or that they were the legitimate army of Ireland.

But, since the British have had a stranglehold on what was published about Ireland, the terrorist meme took firm root, and thus the rest of the world is left with the impression that they were a terrorist organization. But ask any Irishman or Irish historian about the Black and Tan, or UVF, and they'll tell you the story of the real terrorist that ravaged Ireland.

[RB TexLa]

19. And doesn't take much reading of history by non-brits and non-Irish

to see the truth.

[Bridget Burke]

8. The IRA wasn't always a terrorist organization.

And it isn't now.

There are splinter groups such as the Real IRA. Just as there are Unionist groups who have not adopted peaceful methods.

[htuttle]

5. Noraid used to run a table at Irishfest in Milwaukee

Haven't seen them there since the 80's, though.

[Bridget Burke]

11. But they were collecting money for the Widows & Orphans!

At least, that's what they said....

[RB TexLa]

13. I think the Noraid people are mostly in 32CSM now n/t

[havocmom]

9. My daughter went to a good-bye party for a guy just out of prison

and being deported for trying to buy missiles. We figure it was the start of her FBI file ;)

Mine started with that hot pants incident involving the torture of some FBI agents on campus back in 72.

[GoneOffShore]

12. I lived in London in the 70's

I remember the Green Park bombing. Horses and bandsmen killed and injured.

And yes, I know the Brits committed atrocities in Eire.

[slackmaster]

14. I had a temporary "Irish Rifle Association" tattoo one year

It didn't go over very well.

:freak:

[TlalocW]

15. You think that's bad

I get shit all the time for wearing my "Sendero Luminoso" (Shining Path) button.

:sarcasm:

TlalocW

[Tyler Durden]

20. Sorry, but unless you have dead relatives in 'Derry...

...Then you're talking out of your ass.

I have cousins over there who would be my age I will never meet, mainly because they were KILLED in their teens for NOT being Catholics.

I have NOTHING against Irish Catholics personally, I have nothing against citizens of the Republic of Ireland. But ANY IRA PUKE (or any of the PROTESTANT members of the ULSTER BRIGADES, by the way) can go straight to the Devil, as they well deserve.

I don't even call them TERRORISTS, but THUGS, MURDERERS AND SCUM, as they well deserve.

That said, Happy St. Patrick's day to YOU, too. I wasn't going to, but I think I'll go put up my ORANGE shamrock, just in response to your FREEDOM THEN PEACE nonsence, which is anything BUT democratic.

Nothing personal, mind.

[RB TexLa]

22. Sorry for your family's loss

as far as my family's service and ultimate sacrifices left more than a few generations of cousins I or my family can never meet.

[Tyler Durden]

25. As did MINE, by the way.

SIDES no longer matter here anymore.

STACKS OF DEAD PEOPLE DO.

Time to take this partisan shit and leave it where it belongs: in the graveyard with the dead.

Either that, or let's just pick up the guns again. Personally, that sounds pretty stupid to me.

[Finder]

30. You are the one that brought up the orange shamrock...

which is choosing a side.

What were you saying about partisan shit?

[MadHound]

23. Oh stop with the poor pitiful me act

There are a hell of a lot more dead Irish Catholics than there are prods, many of them at the hand of the unionists. You want to talk about thugs murderers and scum, let's talk about the unionists, the Black and Tans, the RUC, the UVF, and especially let's talk about the "sport" they enjoy with their Orange parades celebrating the Apprentice Boys. You know, where all those nice upstanding Prods go out looking for Catholic blood.

You want to talk about terror, let's talk about the terror that the British and Irish Protestants inflicted upon Ireland and Irish Catholics for hundreds of years. Let's talk about the deliberate holding back of food and relief by the Brits and the Prods during the Great Famine, which resulted in the death of one million Irish Catholics, and the relocation of twice that number.

Let's talk about Bloody Sunday back in 1972, and the death of innocent Irish in your precious Derry. Or that other Bloody Sunday in a Dublin football park back in 1920. And let's talk about those six counties that the Brits still hang onto, out of greed and stubborness, and because the Prods can't bear to be in a Republic with majority Catholic rule.

So go ahead, put on your bloody Orange shamrock today, let the entire world know what you support and believe in. But don't put on airs that the Brits and the Prods are somehow the victims here, over four hundred years of history proves you wrong. And you know what, if it weren't for the IRA back in the day, all of Ireland would still be under the boot of the Brits. Is that what you want?

[Tyler Durden]

24. Tell you what...

Since you seem to be such a HAWK (and ignored my condemnation of ANY Irish Thug, be they Catholic OR Protestant, AND thanks for the "PROD." Notice I included no anti Catholic slur), I can recommend several organizations that call themselves "Freedom Fighters" that you should go and enlist in, right away.

I seem to remember a VOTE, about Counties joining the Republic, or Counties staying with the Brits. I will have to assume that you don't believe in the Democratic Process, Correct or Incorrect? PRODS can't stand Catholic Rule??? ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF?

DOWN WITH ALL MURDERING, COWARDLY SCUM HIDING BEHIND A FLAG. I was mourning RELATIVES.

[MadHound]

28. No, you weren't mourning relatives,

You were waving the bloody shirt for all it's worth, and your claim of being even handed in your criticism is belied by your threat of wearing the Orange Shamrock. You can dish it out, but apparently you can't stand the plain truth of the matter. I sympathize about your relatives who died, but I have dozens upon dozens who died directly due to the actions of the British and the Protestants.

And your reference to a "vote" is laughable in light of the fact that such a vote was accompanied by violence, intimidation and vote rigging. The Brits and their Protestant running dogs insured that the Catholics would have little say, and thus keep the six counties part and parcel of the UK.

Again, I am sorry about your relatives, but to come in and start waving the bloody shirt and wearing the Orange shamrock, well, you should know as well as anyone that such actions are going to get a response. And if you don't know that, then perhaps you should go study your history before shooting off your mouth.

[Finder]

31. Erin go Bragh! good post. n/t

[Benbow]

41. Cliche as substitute for thought n/t

[Finder]

44. Mr Orange doesn't want thought. n/t

[Benbow]

47. He is in pain and grief - where's your "emotional intelligence" n/t

[Finder]

53. Oh please...

As far as my "emotional intelligence", it does not exist together. My emotions and my intelligence rarely hang out together.

[Tyler Durden]

32. allow me to quote myself:

"But ANY IRA PUKE (or any of the PROTESTANT members of the ULSTER BRIGADES, by the way) can go straight to the Devil, as they well deserve."

Now stand up for your Murderers, just because they are Catholics. "...Protestant running dogs..."?? Sorry. With that comment, your moral high ground got buried six feet under. And as to waving the bloody shirt??? Normally you haven't APPEARED to have lost all semblance of even handedness, but let me ask YOU how many GREEN items are you wearing today? I have on a BRIGHT GREEN sweatshirt that I wore on purpose and not one orange item. At least to the minute. You owe ME an apology.

I say again: ALL murderers in Ireland, NORTH or SOUTH, CATHOLIC or PROTESTANT, are SCUM that belong in the same circle of HELL as George W. Bush.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

35. Tyler, you forgot another that belongs in the same circle of hell

as GWB, Margaret Thatcher.

Happy Paddy's Day to you, my friend..

[Tyler Durden]

36. You will get no argument from me on that one.

[MadHound]

43. Allow me to quote you as well

"Sorry, but unless you have dead relatives in 'Derry... Then you're talking out of your ass.

I have cousins over there who would be my age I will never meet, mainly because they were KILLED in their teens for NOT being Catholics." That is what is known as waving the bloody shirt, and it is derision of Irish Catholics everywhere.

"I wasn't going to, but I think I'll go put up my ORANGE shamrock, just in response to your FREEDOM THEN PEACE nonsence, which is anything BUT democratic" And that lad is deliberate provocation of for any freedom loving Irishman or woman. Tell you what, why don't you go put that Orange Shamrock on your chest and take a stroll along the Wall in Derry, and see how long you stay healthy. Or better yet, put that Orange Shamrock on your chest on one side of the Liffey, and try to cross the bridge to the other side. My bet is that you would be dead halfway over. You know as well as I do that the Orange Shamrock IS a provaction, so don't play innocent and coy.

And while yes, I'm wearin' o' the green today, I have Irish blood and heritage to accompany me each and every day. I'm not a faux Irish who brings out the green once a year, I'm Irish all year. Deal.

And frankly, most of those Catholic murderers that you condemn are, in reality, patriots who fought for freedom from British tyranny and justice for all. That you continue to lump them in with the Unionists, the Orangemen, the UVF etc. etc. tells me even more exactly where you stand.

Go peddle your blarney elsewhere. You may be able to fool the gullible and guileless, but to those who know, your words tell us exactly where you stand.

[RB TexLa]

50. Amen

I held my tongue a bit, but the "freedom is undemocratic" jeez, amazing how people promoting their freedom brings out the put them down, keep them down mentality in some.

and on the "I'm not a faux Irish who brings out the green once a year, I'm Irish all year. Deal."
I had an uncle who had a jacket over his shirt one cold Saint Patrick's day, when a kid told asked him where his green was, he told him "Son, I bleed green."

[truebrit71]

68. "prods"?

You stupid fucking boggy :eyes:

If you stupid fucking drunkards could figure out how to grow potatoes you and your ilk would still be stuck on that Godforsaken pile of rocks off the Western coast of Britain, and New York, Boston and Chicago wouldn't have to put up with a bunch of drunken wankers crying into their watered down green beer about the "old country"...

If you like it so much, why don't you fuck off back there paddy?

(Offensive enough for you matey? Or should I go on? Keep your slurs to yourself in future, okay?)

[mitchtv]

76. offensive enough for me

I am half and half(w/ a wee bit of Scot) You have displayed a very typical and common English attitude. Racism, it thrived when it was brought over here

[RB TexLa]

79. with a name like

true brit I'm sure they can get more offensive.

[sg_]

84. The ra ...

would kill you just as quick as they'd kill me if you or I crossed them.

Your posts are disgusting.

[MadHound]

77. LOL too funny

How like a Brit, jumping into someplace where they don't belong. This isn't your fight, but somehow you feel the need to insert yourself. Sorry pal, but your bluster doesn't intimidate me, nor do the threats of a Brit. I've been insulted by much better men than you, who did so with consumate skill. Your pathetic attempts to insult me are so much rain off the back, annoying, but soon to dry up and go away.

But hey, I understand, you feel the need to defend here because by God, you are a Brit and you are not going to let the last of your ill-gotten empire go away without a fight. Don't look now, but the Falklands are going back to Argentina, and N. Ireland will be reunited with Eire in due time.

Your's is the bark of a toothless bulldog, all bluster backed with wind. The sound is both amusing for the sound, and annoying because of the stench. But given time, it too will pass.

Sláinte!:toast:, and have a great day:rofl:

[truebrit71]

86. Glad you found the humour!

Whereabouts in Ireland were you born btw? North or South?

[MadHound]

89. I wasn't born there

But I have long roots in the South, and many friends who still reside there. But who knows, perhaps I will move there one day, it is a beautiful country.

[truebrit71]

92. So you're not even Irish then?

I thought as much.

A true "irish" patriot, that just happens to NOT be irish, and just happens to NOT have been born there...

All of your anger and hatred is second-hand. It's not even YOURS!!!

Now THAT'S funny :rofl:

[MadHound]

93. You know what ass u me-ing things makes, don't you

That is what you're doing there friend, assuming. My anger is my own, for my very own reasons. But hey, if that's what blows your skirt up, assume away. Just remember, you're on an anonymous chat board, and you have no clue as to who I am or why I feel as I do.

[truebrit71]

94. True enough...

..although what I do know is that you're not irish, as you yourself have said...

..and that's all we need to know about your 'patriotic outrage'...

Now then, how's that whole "Give America back to the Native Indian Tribes Movement" getting on? They had all of their 'troubles' much more recently than the irish folks you rally behind (as a non-irishman)...surely we should be supporting THEIR grievances too, no?

[Bridget Burke]

34. Shouldn't you call it Londonderry?

There's nothing wrong with Orange. You can see it in the Irish Flag.

[Tyler Durden]

37. Thank you for the comment. REALLY.

Yeah, I know. I just wish when I stand up and say something about it, I wouldn't get lumped with the Apprentice Boys.

My relatives always say 'Derry, like you can picture the apostrophe and the "D" capitalized.

[MadHound]

45. Shows how little you know about Ireland

The "London" prefix was attached by the British, as a deliberate slap and insult to the Irish. I mean really now, it wasn't enough that they conquered Ireland and held it in thrall to their bloody whim. No, they had to wipe out Irish culture and Irish language, right down to the naming of towns.

[Tyler Durden]

52. You REALLY ought to read posts before you hit enter.

I didn't know WHY it was called Londonderry, AND I said my IRISH PROTESTANT RELATIVES always called it 'Derry.

You know something? You need to lose a little of that poisonous hatred. I don't hate YOU but it sure sounds like you're ready to hate ME for being a "PROD."

[MadHound]

54. No, I don't hate you, we probably have a lot in common

But you waltzed in here deriding Catholics and waving your Orange Shamrock around like it was some sort of crime for the Irish people to fight for their freedom. Sorry, but I don't buy that line, it was one that was fed to us for entirely too long, it came in our mothers' milk for centuries.

So yes, I get a bit pissed off when somebody goes spitting on the graves of my ancestors, proud patriot who fought for the freedom of all Ireland. You've lost a few cousins, and for that I'm sorry. But like I said earlier, I've lost dozens and dozens of relatives, all at the hands of the British and the Protestants. When somebody is pulling the poor pitiful Pauline act while simultaneously waving the Orange Shamrock, yeah, I'm going to respond.

You want sensitivty from others, you've got to give it out yourself. Waving around the Orange Shamrock is a smack in the face for a lot of Irish, both here and abroad. You wouldn't wear one while crossing the Liffey, why in the hell do you think it is appropriate to wear one here, especially on St. Pat's?

So I suppose we should just drop it here. We've both insulted each other, and gotten into a fine multi thread row. I suggest that we let it go, and go in peace, OK.

Sláinte!:toast: and Peace.

[Tyler Durden]

78. We probably do...

BESIDES being Irish.

I just can't get past the IRA stuff. We're not a big family: lost many members in the Famine, the Wars, losing them in the Troubles was too much for me. There were others in the Troubles besides, and they never marched with that asshole Paisley.

You just pushed one of my personal buttons with the IRA intro. We'll have to agree to disagree on those boys.

Have a Kilkenny for me if you can find one.

[MadHound]

83. If I can find one, I will lift it to you

But I will probably have to make do with Guiness or a Harp.

Sorry about pissing you off, we both pushed each other's buttons, I with the IRA, you with the Orange Shamrock. God, aren't we Irish:silly:

You take care of yourself tonight, and I will do the same. And perhaps we can meet in the future and drink a toast to one thing we both agree on, Peace in Ireland, now and always:toast:

[Bridget Burke]

51. Ireland is not a simple place.

Here are some who Parade in the North.


But Belfast also has a Pride Parade.

[Benbow]

42. Nope - it was called Doire before the British renamed it n/t

[Bridget Burke]

58. Then why don't you call it "Doire"?

In fact, why are you using English?

[Benbow]

40. Well said n/t

[ourbluenation]

66. there are 364 days for you to get your big old orange on....

why can you not let this day go for one freaking day?

[patcox2]

70. You'd think there were more dead protestants then catholics

To read your post.

Which of course is not the case.

Nor do the Irish parade through the protestant towns shouting "fuck Ian Paisely" and banging drums.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. Fuck the IRA.

[Tyler Durden]

27. AND the Ulster Brigades.

I want no more dead relatives. NOBODY's Dead relatives. Mine or anyone elses: Catholic, Protestant, Navaho, Hindu, Muslim, or ATHEIST.

[Benbow]

38. I'm with you

In the 1970s I was going out with a Catholic boy from Derry (I am an English Anglican). I have holidayed with his family and friends in Derry and Donegal; I took part - with his mother - in the second Peace March, which was convened on the Craigavon Bridge. I spent a summer working at Corrymeela, the reconciliation centre on the north Antrim coast. I have travelled alone through Belfast (I was terrified).

The IRA of the 1930s was a completely different "outfit" from the IRA of the 1970s-1990s.

[Xithras]

29. My grandfather gave nearly a million bux to the IRA.

He was a big restaraunteur back in the 1960's, and donated nearly a million dollars to the IRA over a twenty year span. He didn't actually stop until he finally started to go senile and my uncle was put in charge of his finances. At my grandfathers request, even my uncle continued donating money to the IRA...just in much smaller sums.

When my great grandfather left his village to emigrate to the US, he did so at the point of an English rifle, and he made damned sure his kids understood that. When he chose a wife, he went all the way to Canada to find a French Canadian bride because he didn't want to "soil himself" by sleeping with English women. When my grandfather grew up, he married my German-descended grandmother because there were few Irish around his home and "she wasn't English".

That hatred had started to die out by my parents generation, but even there you can find a lot of anti-British sentiment if you bring this subject up. If you tell my mom, for example, that the IRA are terrorists, she'll launch into a long list of justifications for their behavior.

By my generation we just didn't give a damn anymore. My siblings and cousins just don't get how people can get that worked up over an island half a planet away. Time heals all wounds I guess.

[RB TexLa]

33. My grandmother used to read the history to me

We would listen to her old shortwave radio, when we couldn't get a signal from Ireland she would begrudgingly tune in the BBC and then she would start correcting what they were saying, based on her letters from "home."

The old names from the IRA were spoken as they were saints. I'll add your grandfather to her list of saints.

[Benbow]

39. How would you feel if I said my grandfather had given a million dollars

to fund the Egyptians who carried out the atrocities in the USA on 11 September 2001.

That's how I feel about your grandfather.

[Tyler Durden]

49. Give up.

According to some, if you're Irish and not Catholic, you ain't shit or worth shit.

I don't feel that way in kind, but hey, my grandmother read me stories of generosity and kindness from The Bumper Book. "The Lame Squirrel's Thanksgiving Dinner" STILL makes me cry.

I will continue to teach my family those values; not murder with their meals.

[Finder]

55. Well as an Irish atheist...

sectarian differences mean nothing. Irish independence means a lot. As in most conflicts, religion is used as a tool.

[sg_]

65. Good point benbow.

I find this whole thread/topic quite disgusting IMO. The ira can go to hell for all I care.

[truebrit71]

71. Put me in the same boat.

He helped finance the death of innocent people. No different than giving money to OBL.

[Xithras]

82. It depends...

If Americans had shot his grandfather, driven his family from their home, and left a woman and her teenage sons to watch him die on the side of a road, I might offer a little bit of understanding and compassion towards the guy, misguided as he may be.

If he just donated it to be a prick or because he didn't like Americans, I'd wish him a speedy trip to hell.

[Nye Bevan]

60. That's too bad. I wonder how many murders your grandpa financed.

Like the Eniskillen bombing:

"The device went off without warning at 1045 GMT at the town's cenotaph where people had gathered to pay their respects to the war dead. The bomb is believed to have been hidden in a nearby hall. It blew out one of the building's walls, showering the area with debris and burying some people in several feet of rubble.

The dead included three married couples, a retired policeman and a nurse.

Thirteen children are among the injured."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/8/newsid_2515000/2515113.stm

You have my sympathy for a horrible aspect of your family's history.

[Xithras]

74. A lot, I would imagine.

It was incredibly sad, because he was a good honest man in all respects...but if you brought up Ireland with him he'd just go off. As I understand it, when he return to Britain after the fall of Germany in WWII, he arranged to spend some time with an uncle in Ireland instead of returning straight to the US. I don't know what he saw in Ireland in the 1940's that set him off so badly, but he never got over it. After being raised in a household that insulted prods on a daily basis, and then spending time there, he just had no sympathy for any non-Catholics in Ireland.

You also have to understand the REASON they were forced out of their village...my great-great grandfather fought and was wounded in the Easter Uprising. When it ended, the whole family was dragged out of the house by British soldiers and could only stand by and watch as previously friendly protestant neighbors looted and burned their home in retaliation. They were literally left with nothing...my great great grandfather died on the side of an Irish road several days later as they tried to walk to a relatives house, and when the rest of them did reach relatives in another village, the only thing they could do was to scrape up enough money to send them on to the U.S.

It was a tragic event, and the whole situation just bred an incredible amount of hatred in my family that took a long time to die off.

[Coventina]

90. And I'm sure NOBODY in your ancestry has EVER done anything of

questionable integrity.

Your "sympathy" rings pretty hollow.

[Nye Bevan]

95. Not that I am aware of

but my wife's grandmother did make moonshine in her bathtub.

[truebrit71]

69. Wonder how many people got killed with his money?

Fuck the IRA.

[LeaveIraqNow]

46. The american revolution.

Would probably be called terrorists by today's standards.

[Bridget Burke]

57. The IRA fought in the war of independance, but...

... after the Treaty with England, there was a split. Michael Collins, leader of the IRA & a major force behind victory, had been made part of the delegation to England. He returned with a treaty that was rejected by Republican purists. It included Partition--not a big issue at the time. And an Oath of Allegiance--not actually to the King. Collins knew he was signing his death warrant when he signed the Treaty.

Then the bloody Irish Civil War commenced. Part of the IRA became the nucleus for the Irish army & the rest fought their former comrades. Collins went to his native Cork to try negotiations toward ending the war & was shot dead in an ambush. Eamon de Valera, who had fought the Treaty, eventually took the Oath & led Ireland for many years. Many think that the Republic would have been a different place if Collins had lived. (He had not won Independence by being a man of peace. But he saw that those who needed killing were killed. He rejected indiscriminate bombing--in Ireland or in London.)

The IRA went into a decline. When the Northern Catholic fight for Civil Rights was met with Unionist thuggery, the IRA briefly worked to protect the people. Then the old bomb-everybody crew gained power.

I know most of this by heart, but I got some details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Collins_%28Irish_leader%29

Irish history is never simple.

[alarimer]

73. You have a good point there

The British got what they deserved as far as the US is conserned. The way they treated the Irish is partiularly disgusting, among all the former British colonies. When I read about the potato famine or the workhouses or any number of other things, it upsets me. Now I know that the fungus that caused the famine was the result of a number of events not necessarily having to do with the British themselves. The dependence on one single crop to feed the people of Ireland was the result of British policies that brutalized the poor. So I think a lot of the bombing was in retaliation for years upon years of subjugation and torture. I am not saying I agree with it but I do understand it.

The sectarian violence is something with which I have no patience, although I do believe that conditions have improved greatly in recent years. I also believe in the ultimate goal of a unified Ireland, although I can't see that happening any time soon.

[hedgehog]

48. My mother has a framed bond on the wall from De Valera's tour

of the States back in 1919 or thereabouts, but this isn't 1919.That was my grandfather's Ireland, and my grandfather's fight. I went to see Bernadette Devlin back around 1973 or 1974 and was absolutely disgusted to see college students blithely tossing money into collection baskets with no idea of how that money would be spent. I may be Irish, but I no longer live in Ireland and I have at best a limited right to interfere with Irish politics. I especially have no right if I interfere based on half remembered, ignorant and often boozy misconceptions of what happened a hundred years ago as opposed to what's going on today. Irish Americans need to learn to tread lightly and with respect. A little self respect would be a great start.

[tenshi816]

56. Good post.

I think that these days Irish-Americans remain far more worked up about the "troubles" than people in Ireland and Britain do.

On a side note, I noticed after 9/11 that both sides went very quiet and it remains so (I can't remember the last time I heard a news report about sectarian violence in Northern Ireland). I've often wondered whether those on both the Protestant and Catholic sides took a look at their own activities and didn't like what they saw in the light of a much larger threat. Or maybe it's just a coincidence and I'm reading too much into it.

I do know that I haven't been evacuated from a train, train station or shopping centre because of the threat of an IRA bomb so far this century, and it used to happen at least a few times a year. Maybe it's the Pollyanna in me that wants to think those on both sides of the Ireland problem have finally decided to stop using bombs to make their point.

[Greyhound]

59. Isn't the lesson here that when you invade and kill people

in another country it tends to make them cranky?
Don't forget that the "terrorists" that the Brits faced in the late 18th century managed to convince them to seek easier lands to loot. :patriot:

[Finder]

61. Good post. n/t

[Greyhound]

62. Thank you. Peace. n/t

[ourbluenation]

72. Thank You! If someone invaded our country shall we sit back and do

nothing for fear that we are terrorists? People need to learn the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists.

[wicket]

64. hoo boy

:popcorn:

[patcox2]

75. Goes to show, "terrorist" is a political label, nothing more.

One side's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Just as it isn't treason if it succeeds.

[Nye Bevan]

96. Would anyone claim that the Eniskillen mass murder was "freedom fighting"?

"The device went off without warning at 1045 GMT at the town's cenotaph where people had gathered to pay their respects to the war dead. The bomb is believed to have been hidden in a nearby hall. It blew out one of the building's walls, showering the area with debris and burying some people in several feet of rubble.

The dead included three married couples, a retired policeman and a nurse.

Thirteen children are among the injured."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/novemb...

[H2O Man]

81. One land

from sod to sky.

[truebrit71]

87. Just like California, Texas and Arizona are Mexican right?

Riiiiiiiiight.....

[H2O Man]

88. You're silly

Not serious, just silly.

[truebrit71]

91. This whole thread is silly...

...shouldn't the US give back the entire country to the original "owners" then? Judging by the standards applied here it certainly seems that it should....

The inability to see the irony in some of these posts is fascinating...

[maddezmom]

97. locking

hope this works